Police Find Paris Attackers Coordinate Via Unencrypted SMS (techdirt.com) 204
schwit1 writes: In the wake of the tragic events in Paris last week encryption has continued to be a useful bogeyman for those with a voracious appetite for surveillance expansion. Like clockwork, numerous reports were quickly circulated suggesting that the terrorists used incredibly sophisticated encryption techniques, despite no evidence by investigators that this was the case. These reports varied in the amount of hallucination involved, the New York Times even having to pull one such report offline. Other claims the attackers had used encrypted Playstation 4 communications also wound up being bunk.
Damned Lies And Politics (Score:2, Interesting)
On the subject of our respective governments' unbounded honesty, anyone knows what happened to James "Lied Under Oath" Clapper?
Re: Damned Lies And Politics (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Damned Lies And Politics (Score:5, Funny)
We couldn't intercept them without encryption, imagine if they had used any!
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They used ROT312, you fool!
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So now we know for sure which are the propaganda mills in "mainstream" news. I read anti-encryption articles on at least CNN, MSN, Fox, and Infoworld. Are there any others worthy of mention in this context? They are now off my list of "reputable news" sources, though they may be useful for staying up on current events... take it with a grain of salt.
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/. had this a few days ago
Belgian Home Affairs Minister: Terrorists Communicate Via PlayStation 4
http://tech.slashdot.org/story... [slashdot.org]
But yeah they were even pushing it during the democratic debates on the 14th.
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Re: Damned Lies And Politics (Score:5, Insightful)
So now we know for sure which are the propaganda mills in "mainstream" news. I read anti-encryption articles on at least CNN, MSN, Fox, and Infoworld. Are there any others worthy of mention in this context? They are now off my list of "reputable news" sources, though they may be useful for staying up on current events... take it with a grain of salt.
The BBC: Paris attacks: Silicon Valley in crosshairs over encryption [bbc.com]
Some gems from the article:
"And I do think this is a time for particularly Europe, as well as here in the United States, for us to take a look and see whether or not there have been some inadvertent or intentional gaps that have been created in the ability of intelligence and security services to protect the people that they are asked to serve."
while attitudes towards creating government backdoors were "hostile", that atmosphere "could turn in the event of a terrorist attack or criminal event where strong encryption can be shown to have hindered law enforcement". Paris may just be that event.
Also, some jackwagon New York prosecutor is calling for legislation mandating phone manufactures use weak encryption and provide backdoors for law enforcement:
A New York prosecutor is calling for federal legislation to weaken smartphone encryption [businessinsider.com]
It's just ridiculous. Intelligence agencies and police have unprecedented data and location tracking on nearly every person in the world and it's STILL NOT ENOUGH for them. They will never be satisfied, even if every person in the world provided them a 24/7 video feed they would demand constant brainwave scans to "protect our children". It's time to say enough is enough and remove the people in favor of a surveillance state from a position of power, either by voting them out of office or voting the people who appointed them out of office.
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That is why s/he knows so much about it, s/he was describing themselves.
Re: Damned Lies And Politics (Score:5, Insightful)
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The government provides your birth certificate and SSN so they already have them.
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Clearly you never worked for the government in the US. The government is intentionally fire walled all over the place. Most people think that politicians are in charge of the day to day, but any former president (or Obama in recent comments) can tell you that they are not. Agencies are separate and communication--much less data sharing--across agencies is a huge pain in the ass. When it comes to states or counties communicating with the federal government there basically has to be a huge benefit to both sid
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There is good sharing and bad sharing. Most of this was instituted after Nixon left office and it was discovered that there was lots of bad sharing. Most of the bad stuff that we know of relates to his monitoring of MLK--I'd look there if you're interested. So, e.g. I doubt the FBI can call the IRS and get tax records without a subpoena. Now, I believe that they do have some common sense sharing rules (e.g. if you list an illegal source of income they send it for prosecution).
In another FBI related one they
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Only if you assume Hoover moved unidirectionally in time. But, assuming that, point taken.
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Bank account number
Bank routing number
You do realize that this information is located across the bottom of every check you write right? Mine is padded with four extra numbers as the account number isn't long enough, but it clearly appears on the bottom of all of my checks.
SMS (Score:5, Funny)
O RLY?
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YA RLY
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Re:SMS (Score:5, Insightful)
Encryption isn't needed if nobody is watching.
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Encryption isn't needed if nobody is watching.
Yeah, just like if you close your eyes no one can see you!
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Everyone knows that metadata is worse than the actual data in many cases, so obviously encryption alone isn't enough. It's better to use burner phones that can't be tied to individuals, and which are only used once or twice to coordinate the attack.
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Now that we xenophobically blocked Syrian refugees, now the Governors have announced they will keep Amierica safe by banning cell phones. "The terrorists used cell phones and this new technology they learned from Snowden (aka Moldemort) called SMS. We must not be threatened by this illegal usage of dangerous technology." Rumor has it they're going after books next and plan big book burnings and witch drownings. "I know at least one of those ISIS phuckers read a Harry Potter book," Texas governor was ove
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Which book was it?
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Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stoning
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I wish that ISIS would just get stoned.
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I am wondering how the terrorists sent unencrypted SMS as SMS is pretty heavily encrypted between the phone and tower, and while being transmitted over the network. Must be some pretty special phones to be able to send SMS without the built in encryption of cell networks.
Re: SMS (Score:2)
Justice (Score:1, Insightful)
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Which brings me to an interesting thought. If no one ages in "heaven" (or whatever they call it in Islam), perhaps those 72 virgins they get are all crying babies that they murdered.
"Attackers Coordinate via Unencrypted SMS" (Score:1)
Where is this proof in the article?..
Inch by inch tyranny (Score:5, Insightful)
Because terrorists use SMS we should monitor all SMS traffic. Because they use phones we should record all conversations. Because they use the Internet we should monitor all traffic. Because they drive cars, fly planes, and buy things at grocery stores.. we should monitor those too. In fact since terrorists use essentially everything non-terrorists use... then we should monitor everything. Put camera's in washroom stalls just in case the terrorists find a way to use them. Force people to wear microphones just in case they are terrorists. If you have done nothing wrong what do you have to worry about? Are you some kind of terrorist sympathizer? Let me mark down your objections on my suspect review and no fly list.
Only monitoring everything will free us from the threat of tyranny once and for all. Complete and total control of everything by government officials is true freedom.
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Put camera's in washroom stalls just in case the terrorists find a way to use them.
So if I pee in public, not only am I a sex offender [findlaw.com], now I'm a potential terrorist?
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Reductio ad absurdum noted. Now on to the harder part -- how can we most effectively prevent acts of terrorism without doing all of the above?
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Rather odd them trying to stake a claim of the number 1984.
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Won't they have to sue Van Halen first?
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What like If you buy too much sudafed? http://lawstreetmedia.com/blog... [lawstreetmedia.com]
Or Hydroponics gear?
http://www.nydailynews.com/new... [nydailynews.com]
Common pattern (Score:5, Interesting)
I feel that this terror threat is vastly over-stated. Saddam was not a really threat (a little but not that much). Al Qaeda weren't really a threat (sure they killed people, but hardly enough to roll over your way of life for), and now The Tiny Pensis are a threat (no they aren't [youtube.com]).
To put it in perspective, the Police in the US have killed more civilians this year [theguardian.com] than The Tiny Penises have in France.
Terrorists are shitty humans, but it's not enough to give up for freedom and privacy for.
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To put it in perspective, the Police in the US have killed more civilians this year [theguardian.com] than The Tiny Penises have in France.
That's a pretty low bar, considering that deaths in the US as a result of terrorism amortizes to a yearly figure around that of deaths by vending machine.
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Come on they have had warnings on them not to tilt or shake them for years. Are they just trying for a darwin?
Re:Common pattern (Score:4, Insightful)
And ISIL has killed more people in Syria and Iraq than the police in the US have. Or are you saying that only first world, western lives count?
ISIS is a bunch of fucking assholes who have taken a select number of passages out of a holy book and twisted them to fit their means. They rape, murder, steal, and a number of other horrible crimes. And they are creating greater racism around the world.
We won't beat them by giving up our freedoms. We aren't going to beat them by dropping bombs on them. It's going to take a long, hard battle on the ground. But what is really going to defeat them in the long run is people getting along. Having temples attacked, blaming all Muslims, or calling for the refugees not to be admitted is just feeding the anger that causes people who join ISIS. They already feel apart from society and when we do those things we drive them further away. We need to embrace everyone and create an inclusive society or there will be other groups after ISIS.
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> And ISIL has killed more people in Syria and Iraq than the police in the US have. Or are you saying that only first world, western lives count?
When domestic surveillance is being justified by domestic deaths then domestic lives are already the topic of discussion.
Re:Common pattern (Score:5, Interesting)
And ISIL has killed more people in Syria and Iraq than the police in the US have. Or are you saying that only first world, western lives count? .
In domestic policy matters, yes.
Yes indeed only west coutnry count (Score:4, Insightful)
"Or are you saying that only first world, western lives count?"
I am sorry, but when determining the territorial security of country (laws, police intervention) only what happen in that country should count. Citing that some terrorist in some country somewhere should make us drop our law , trample our constitution, and roll over the ground wailing, is stupid. Were you there to claim the genocidial Rwanda event should lead to some police change in the US/France/Whichever ? No ? then ISIL is no different.
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Not particularly surprising. Anyone who has actually studied recidivism knows that when people do time in prison, it requires a lot of effort on the part of the government to reintegrate them into society, and if that doesn't happen properly, they are much more likely to commit further crimes because they feel that they have no other means to get the things they want. We also have known for a long time that people who feel isolated from society are more likely to get drawn into a terrorist organization.
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Saddam was a huge threat. He almost developed nukes until his reactors were bombed. He had chemical weapons. He had the fourth largest military on the planet, engaged in a lot of skirmishes with Iran and engaged in a war of conquest against a defenceless neighbor.
Now all that shook out in the mit-to-late 80's, early 90's...
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I shall clarify for the pedants. Saddam was not really a threat to us when we made the decision to invade his country.
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Well, how well was the "containment" and no-fly zone thing in the '90s really working? There was the UN sanctions scandal, not to mention that the sanctions themselves led to an incredible amount of anti-US hostility and backlash, claiming the US blocked food and medicine from Iraqis, but which was Saddam's doing, as he was busy building those lush palaces. It was during the '90s that Al Qeada became fully formed (tec
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In further investigations (Score:5, Funny)
police have found that the terrorists breathed air, drank water, and wore clothes in order to carry out their attacks. Police and security agencies have united in calling for these things to be banned immediately.
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There is a TV programme called Question Time on the BBC this evening at about 10:30, where a panel of politicians and other minor celebrities answer questions put by the audience. Let's see how many politicians use the Paris attacks as an excuse to bring in the Snooper's Charter, and if anyone even mentions that encryption wasn't used.
Where's the article (Score:3, Insightful)
"Police Find Paris Attackers Coordinate Via Unencrypted SMS". And where's the article to support that headline?!
Re:Where's the article (Score:5, Informative)
Hidden now in the title.
https://www.techdirt.com/artic... [techdirt.com]
And from there;
https://theintercept.com/2015/... [theintercept.com]
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
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Quite scary
In what way? Terrorists will always have access to encrypted communications that are difficult to crack. If the terrorists can meet beforehand, then they can use impossible to crack communications. They already use encryption. They already use steganography, and messages within computer games would just be an example of this.
Re:Call of Duty in game chat (Score:5, Insightful)
Quite scary
Not really. It's far scarier to consider life in a panopticon where two people couldn't say something privately to eachother without the goverment listening to the conversation.
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>
Quite scary
Only if you are a complete moron. How is it any more scary than any other communication that is not being traced?
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eh. just use skype or whatever. people are already using it to replace teamspeak etc.
however, the point is, the feds & etc are running a campaign to demonize encryption when it is just most likely that they were using something like whatsapp only for international messaging.
and you know why? because international sms's COST A FUCKING LOT OF MONEY.
there's already too much to filter through even if they could read everything. case in point, the mastermind they were already well aware who he was but they d
Well, if it weren't for snowden... (Score:5, Insightful)
The logic of authoritarians:
Thanks to Snowden's revelations, terrorists started using unbreakable encryption!!!!!!!
Right. Except they didn't [zdnet.com].
That was pre-Snowden. Terrorists didn't know about encryption before that.
Right again. Except they did [usatoday.com].
So, you see-- Snowden has "blood on his hands [newrepublic.com]" for making terrorists aware of encryption, which they knew about for decades, so they could use it, which they didn't [techdirt.com]. And thank goodness for that, because if they had used encryption, the attacks might have been successful, which they were.
Got it.
Re:Well, if it weren't for snowden... (Score:5, Interesting)
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Yeah, they killed the last one, Osama Bin Goldstein, after they realized his ailing health meant that he wouldn't be around to fill the role for much longer.
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Well said.
Masterwork Wordsmith +5, IMO :P
Wait, who again? (Score:2)
"...Attackers Coordinate Via Unencrypted SMS"
You mean the media? Yes, they often attack using SMS as their weapon of choice when blindly and viciously terrorizing truth or due diligence.
If you're talking about the Paris terrorists, well yeah, I guess they could be stupid enough to do that...or just be attention whores like the media...
Hurry (Score:1)
When you're planning on blowing yourself up... (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems to me that when you're planning to blow yourself up anyway - you're probably not that worried about getting caught after the fact, and there's so much traffic going around that open communications especially if using a simple codewords for obvious trigger phrases (so say "flowers' instead of "bombs" etc...) and very likely the best the intelligence folks will do is read your comms after you've succeeded and have gone to meet your 72 Virgins....
Encryption! (Score:2)
We need to encrypt everything. Leaving SMS encrypted leaves us open to terrorist attacks.
And we need licencing for SMS use too!
Security through obscurity (Score:2)
The best method of encryption is no encryption at all, using word or phrase replacement.
All the spy measures in the world are pretty useless against people who understand that.
They won't see the next thing coming. (Score:4, Interesting)
This war on encryption and personal privacy can't be won by the ordinary man against governments.
It's inevitable. They will get their way.
I take personal comfort in seeing a repeating cycle in history where they can only legislate once the genie is out of the bottle, and they are slow to react.
A basic lack of understanding of technology, by those in power, and technology's ability to evolve outside of their constraints means that they are really just sowing the seeds for the next big thing after the internet - it's replacement.
Peer to peer communications, not network based would be my guess.
How? I dunno, but when forced into a corner we always find a way out.
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The ordinary man can have access to good crypto software. There's always going to be people who know what they're doing publishing it as Free/Open Source software. (It can be difficult to figure out who knows what they're doing and who doesn't, of course.)
Remember "The Wire"? (Score:4, Insightful)
When the drug dealer started sending MMS images of clocks?
It seems entirely reasonable that you could plan just about anything with plain text SMS. It wouldn't be hard to talk about whatever it was in plain language substituting normal activities like going shopping or whatever.
An innocuous code would be impossible to decode if you didn't suspect the people in question. You'd never filter out the 373738483847 other texts that were about mundane activities.
In other news (Score:1)
Banhammer (Score:2)
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Hah, can't see that happening, the phone networks still make an absolute fortune off them.
Give me a reason why (Score:5, Insightful)
I live in France... (Score:2)
Reminds me of the time when I was living in
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Politicians are stupid (Score:2)
Terrorists are Criminals (Score:2)
Like criminals they are MOSTLY stupid and uneducated. Both groups for the most part lack many of the basic resources required to improve upon their actions, be it infrastructure, money, contacts, technology, etc...
That is why you hear of stories of bank robbers taking cabs home and the like.
That is not to say that smarter craftier ones don't exist, only that the dumb ones far outnumber them. I have no doubt, the easiest way to catch the smart ones, are not by trying to unravel their master plan, but rather
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And yet they could not stop it (Score:2)
So how is encryption a problem when they can't even stop crimes when it's not being used?
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A FPMITAP one.
Re: Prison (Score:5, Insightful)
effective alternatives to mass survailence and bulk data collection
Courage. The outcomes are far superior.
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The government has previously admitted that its mass surveillance efforts haven't cracked a case or helped to catch a terrorist [washingtontimes.com] so doing nothing would have been just as effective.
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effective alternatives
For this to even be a question, you first have to show mass surveillance as effective. Good luck with that.
Re:They're using it to scare the public (Score:4, Insightful)
I realize you're going to get modded into invisibility. But before that happens, I want to say that I believe there's a lot more to the whole ISIS/Daesh story than meets the eye.
I'm old enough to remember when people thought MK-Ultra was just some conspiracy theorists dark fantasy. I mean, how could our government be using hallucinogenics to experiment on people for the purposes of mind control? When it turned out to be true, the story changed to, "Oh that. That was a long time ago, right?" When it turns out that some rather notable mass murderers turned out to have been subjects of MK-Ultra, the story changed back to, "Oh, that's just a conspiracy theory."
When something in the news happens and all you can say is, "What the fuck?!", sometimes you should ask yourself, what indeed, the fuck is going on.
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... When it turns out that some rather notable mass murderers turned out to have been subjects of MK-Ultra, the story changed back to, "Oh, that's just a conspiracy theory."...
That sounds intriguing. Who were the murderers involved?
Re:They're using it to scare the public (Score:4, Informative)
James "Whitey" Bulger and Unabomber Ted Kaczynski are the two most famous. There is also evidence that Sirhan Sirhan and Charles Manson were subjects. And the doofus who shot John Lennon. A lot of information came out in the Church Committee hearings, but by then the CIA had already destroyed a lot of the records. Fortunately, enough documentation and testimony of participants and "researchers" survived to give a very good idea of MK-Ultra, how it worked and what they were using it for.
I went for years thinking that the whole thing was just a myth. The evidence is pretty clear, though. The program was real and went on for decades.
There's also a very interesting back story about how many of the original researchers died in suspicious circumstances in the year following the Church Committee hearings.
It's one of those "open secrets" like the fact that the Reagan Administration paid and allowed drug cartels to flood the inner cities with crack cocaine to fund anti-Communist death squads in Central and South America. You ask most people and they're like, "Nah, that can't be true." But true it is. And not Alex Jones True, but real life true.
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Maybe he's not the deluded one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Right. So where is the "surreptitious administration of drugs (especially LSD), hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, verbal and sexual abuse, as well as various forms of torture"?
I mean really, I haven't seen LSD in ages.
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Right. So where is the "surreptitious administration of drugs (especially LSD), hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, verbal and sexual abuse, as well as various forms of torture".
Sounds like a modern day Frat party.
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At one time news was factual and verified. But these days anyone can post whatever they want and have very little to back it. Hoping I guess they guessed correctly. If indeed we now know the terrorists only used non encrypted SMS imagine how they now know how to use the proper encrypted tools from now on. Thanks to our wonderful news media pointing it out. The really bad part is that all we ever do is react to a disaster that already happened. We don't learn from the 9-11's of the world. We don't police our boarders we don't profile for fear of offending someone. Islam is NOT a peaceful religion, don't let anyone tell you it is. Much of the Middle East problems stem from religion. The Islamic belief is no exceptions beyond total devotion to Islam. All else is evil and must be eliminated. Even the moderates in the Muslim world simply look the other way unless they are specifically attacked. Deep down, they are required to believe what they are taught. This now has spread to the West and if Christians are to survive we must stop it now or become silenced.
News never has been and never will be factial and verified. Have you ever read Revolutionary War articles? Have you seen was Julius Caeser wrote back to Rome? Media has always had a political aspect to it, that's nothing new. Back in your day, there were a fair few terrorists who did all this too [wikipedia.org], might I point out. And lastly, if that is the kind of government you wish, may I suggest Russia? I think your political philosophy matches much more with theirs than the United States'. Good day to you, sir.