Turkey Arrests Journalists For Using Encryption 145
An anonymous reader sends news that three employees of Vice News were arrested in Turkey because one of them used an encryption system on his personal computer. That particular type of encryption has been used by the terrorist organization known as the Islamic State, so the men were charged with "engaging in terrorist activity." The head of a local lawyers association said, "I find it ridiculous that they were taken into custody. I don't believe there is any accuracy to what they are charged for. To me, it seems like an attempt by the government to get international journalists away from the area of conflict." The Turkish government denied these claims: "This is an unpleasant incident, but the judiciary is moving forward with the investigation independently and, contrary to claims, the government has no role in the proceedings."
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A bunch of turkeys.
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[Citation Needed]
Given that Turkey takes in more refugees than all of Europe combined, has deployed significant military forces in conjunction with US forces against ISIS, and has arrested a pile of would-be fighters passing through its territory destined to fight for either side, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you're full of shit.
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Given that Turkey would have a hard timer refusing silly numbers of refugees given its geography, that the majority of US deployments to the Middle East over the last forty years have promoted Islamic extremist groups, and stopping individual fighters identified by its allies is hardly mutually exclusive with sponsoring ISIS, I'm going to go out on a limb and say your black-and-white thinking is more suited in the compsci classroom than in international affairs.
A more nuanced analysis would identify very fe
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You must be new to the world of politics. Just because a government does something opposite of what it's being accused of doing, doesn't mean it's not doing what it's being accused of doing.
You know, the US has gone after governments all over the world, often mentioning torture being one of the reasons they're doing whatever they're doing. But whoops, it just so happens to be that the US is also actively torturing captives. With innocent people proven to have died of it. Oh my.
Re:No government role? (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, generally it's a good thing that we have an independent judiciary. It ensures that they don't get caught up in the mob's favorite punching bag of the moment.
The problem here is that a judiciary is only supposed to hear cases of controversy: That means there has to be two sides, and the case can't go on if there's no one to prosecute.
In other words, if what they are saying is true, this means the Turkish courts are effectively judge AND prosecutor.
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My guess is that Turkey has some sort of public prosecutors office that prosecutes criminal cases and it is that office that is the other side of the court case.
These offices are generally also independent from the government precisely to prevent political interference in the legal system. (at least they are in Australia)
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I think you have a weird definition of government.
Government can mean many things. Colloquially, it could be all of the state and all civil servants. But in the most restrictive meaning it would just be prime minister, ministers and state secretaries. Many legal texts use the latter, most restrictive meaning.
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In Western law that's the reason there's a jury - to ensure independence and oversight (theoretically). That is why there is prosecution as a State representative. A judge is meant to be both impartial and, somehow, understanding at the same time - understanding does not mean lenient. It is a separate branch of the government for a reason and one has a right to a trial by their peers for that reason. The term independent judiciary is a bit of a misnomer but calling it a quasi-independent judiciary is a bit
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No? Heh. I'll take your word for it but I thought the jury trial was optional in most of western Europe, Canada, the US, etc... Then again, now that you mention it, I don't seem to recall ever seeing a jury in, say, the UK - I've done well to avoid courts in the EU-area.
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Police can arrest whoever they want to. What are the judges and parliament going to do about it? The police are the ones who have guns.
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Police can arrest whoever they want to. What are the judges and parliament going to do about it? The police are the ones who have guns.
Technically, using their guns in such a way (i.e. overstepping their constitutional mandate) would be a coup d'État. And the only thing the judges and parliaments could do in such a case would be to call on the populace to resist. And even that is moot, if the police had the foresight to occupy the media (TV stations, ...) first (which is actually what often happens during a coup d'État). There's still the internet to get the word out, but right now, they're taking "care" of that... Mesh networks?
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The Turkish national, the fixer had the encryption software, the journalists did not. Why were the journalists arrested and charged with terrorism because the US is promoting it by routinely destroying whistle blowers and actively making changes to policy pretend laws to target all journalists in conflict zones. This to give tacit approval to less then democratic states to go after all non-'embedded' (the word is going to take on some new connotations) journalists (corporate and intelligence agency lackeys
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Well, generally it's a good thing that we have an independent judiciary. It ensures that they don't get caught up in the mob's favorite punching bag of the moment.
The problem here is that a judiciary is only supposed to hear cases of controversy: That means there has to be two sides, and the case can't go on if there's no one to prosecute.
In other words, if what they are saying is true, this means the Turkish courts are effectively judge AND prosecutor.
Do you mean the independent judiciary whose members are appointed by the politicians it's supposed to be independent from?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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I wonder what this transgression really is.
Is it connecting https to twitter or Gmail?
Is this cellphone traffic (commonly encrypted today).
Satellite links...
Encrypted laptops to protect company data.
This is worth watching.
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Vice produces some of the best actual reporting and investigative journalism going. Anyone that says differently is frankly an idiot.
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I think they may have more ego than those you mentioned. They do have some good pieces, or did. I am a bit partial to their North Korea series. I'd be interested to see if they're ever allowed to go back.
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if your such a fan of freedom and encryption maybe you should encrypt ur ass instead of waving it all around town?
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Maybe I should get my public key tattooed on my ass. I'd have to get it tattooed backwards so that I could read it in a mirror.
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True but I feel I would be if I supported Turkey doing this sort of thing to them.
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The stupidest? Pfft... You've not read at least half of my posts then. No, no... I type far more stupid things.
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well, a well run state has separation of the part that makes the laws and the part that executes the laws.
however, turkey is right now far from being a good state.
it's entirely possible that it's their common procedure to charge anyone(and anyone who was with) they caught with encryption as a terrorist, it just happens that the reporter is the only one.
still, in case of Turkey, it's fucking ridiculous to say that the government has no role in bogus charges against people who were reporting about kurds.
erdog
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Bingo, spot on over Erdogan. He's a whore though, not a fw. He'll gladly sell his pop. freedoms to Islam. You are correct that he doesn't much care about ISIS although he thinks it is just potty they are taking on dolt next door.
The agreement between the U.S. and Turkey to use the bases in Turkey against ISIS is an example of the Obama/Biden foreign policy, lead through weakness and be clueless about non-U.S. agendas. It is beyond stupid for Obama to sell the Kurds out and allow Turkey to screw them over. E
Re:No government role? (Score:4, Insightful)
So their judiciary isn't part of the government?
The original statement was in Turkish, not English. So saying "government" rather than "administration" was likely just a bad translation by a journalist.
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In any parliamentary republic, no matter the language used, "government" refers to the administration, i.e. the executive branch.
That's British English, not US. Parliamentary syst (Score:4, Informative)
That's the British sense of the word "government", not the US sense of the word. Turkey, like many nations, has a parliamentary system.
It goes something like this. The people elect parliament, who make laws much like the US Congress. The parliament then elects or nominates two heads. One handles foreign affairs. That's the head of state. In the US, the president is head of state. The other top person forms "a government" which handles internal affairs. The US is weird in that then president is both head of state and head of government. In parliamentary systems like Turkey and the UK, they are two seperate positions. (Though sometimes the head of state now has only nominal power, if the head of government and the parliament have slowly taken more and more power).
Seperate from "the government" and parliament is the judiciary. The head of government can't fire judges.
In this type of system, as in the early US system, the head of government doesn't have nearly as much power as the US president does. Other branches can and do act independently.
well it depends, in Saudi Arabia church vs state (Score:2)
I suppose "governmental entities " is somewhat all-inclusive. It's kind of hard to know what to include in all-inclusive since different nations and other political divisions are so different. Does the (all-inclusive) government of Germany include EU entities?
Saudi Arabia has two completely separate entities. You may have noticed many hospitals in the US are run by religious organizations, and often have Saint in their name. Similarly with many schools. In Saudi Arabia, the religious groups run most
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The whole first two letters of that acronym kind of exclude them from the Cool Kids Club.
maybe it's like the no homers club?
Re:having lived in Turkey (Score:4, Informative)
Turkey has a member of NATO since 1952. They joined before (West) Germany did.
Turkey is in both Asia and Europe. It can control entry to the Black Sea (which contains the Crimea).
NATO called the *North Atlantic* Treaty Organisation because the North Atlantic is what lies between Europe and North America.
Really, if you did too many 'shrooms at school, you can find out all this stuff now with about 10 minutes on Wikipedia.
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And I'm still waiting on the coffee to brew. I think I'm doing pretty well.
(And I did my share of psychoactive imagineering back in the day, but it's been at least 20 years since I've messed with anything on that level.)
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It's much easier to be honest and type gibberish and this is Slashdot so, no matter how esoteric the subject, someone comes along and corrects me. I even retain a little bit of it while I forget everything on Wikipedia a half hour later. Thanks and enjoy your morning coffee.
Posting as AC because Slashdot is being silly. It is obviously me. I'm probably the closest thing to a real life Markov chain. I am not sure if anyone could write like me well enough (poorly enough?) to fool anyone for long.
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Turkey really isn't near the North Atlantic
It's a lot closer to the North Atlantic than it is to the South Atlantic (which is the Atlantic Ocean south of the Equator).
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NATO was formed to restrain Soviet/Communist expansion in Europe.
Turkey is a democratic nation, allied with the US and the rest of the NATO powers. It has a beautiful position on the southern flank of the Soviet Union; it controls access to the Black Sea, meaning that in case of a war they are able to stop the Soviet (now Russian) Black Sea fleet from getting out into the Med and causing trouble (that fleet was based in the Crimea, which you might have heard something about in the news recently). Moreover
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In reality, their liberal MILITARY (mark that one in your record books, folks) was the crux.. but.. now they're gone.
They weren't unique that way. Egypt had the same thing going on; remember the Muslim Brotherhood won in popular elections after the Arab Spring revolution, and it was their military that had to step in and take over. Pakistan had something similar, years ago, with Musharraf and his military running the country to keep the government from being run by Islamists. Same thing with Iraq, sorta
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In reality, their liberal MILITARY (mark that one in your record books, folks) was the crux.. but.. now they're gone.
They weren't unique that way. Egypt had the same thing going on; remember the Muslim Brotherhood won in popular elections after the Arab Spring revolution, and it was their military that had to step in and take over. Pakistan had something similar, years ago, with Musharraf and his military running the country to keep the government from being run by Islamists. Same thing with Iraq, sorta: they had Saddam running the place, with a strong military, and he more-or-less kept the peace between all the warring factions within. Same with Syria under Assad; before civil war, he kept the peace, but now different warring groups of Islamists want to take over or separate. Countries like that can't be run democratically; they need dictators or military cabals, otherwise they start resembling ISIS-land.
You're missing the point that the Turkish military are (comparatively) liberal, which is not the case with Egypt, Syria or Iraq.
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You're missing the point that the Turkish military are (comparatively) liberal, which is not the case with Egypt, Syria or Iraq.
Yes, it is. The Egyptian military is not more conservative than the Muslim Brotherhood; that's why they deposed them. Same with the other places: the autocratic regimes were more liberal (i.e., secular instead of Islamist) than their populations and the groups now vying for power there.
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Technically, the government is secular (women working in government offices are even forbidden to wear head scarves, for example), but Erdogan has been doing everything possible to uproot that. As in many countries, the cities tend to back full separation of church/temple/mosque and state, while the rural areas tend to want religion integrated into government.
As you say, for a long time the military was a strong force for secular liberalism and the standard-bearer for Ataturk's secularist reforms and even
Erdogen is an Islamofascist (Score:5, Insightful)
Not that surprising for anyone that follows Turkish politics. Erdogan isn't as bad as ISIS but he inch-by-inch is taking Turkey down the theocratic road of countries like Afghanistan. He practically had to be coerced into fighting ISIS. Very plausible he would have joined forces with ISIS to fight Kurds if it hadn't been for foreign pressure)
Most Turks you meet are super nice in person but for some unfathomable reason this crpto-fascist jerk keeps winning elections. If he keeps winning elections, Turkey is going to devolve into a theocracy like most of the rest of the middle east. Secular Atatürk was rational (especially for his era). Erdogan things he's an Ottoman sultan. Populist moron.
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Most Turks you meet are super nice in person but for some unfathomable reason this crpto-fascist jerk keeps winning elections.
The Turks you have met, and the Turks voting for Erdogan, are likely disjoint sets. You have most likely met people from Istanbul, or the Western Coast. The people voting for Erdogan are mostly from rural Anatolia.
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The Turkish version of Americans that vote for Republican politicians that tell them the earth is 6000 years and that they are super special! Or some Israeli's that vote for politicians that tell them some dude Moses talked to a bush and they are the chosen ones! There is something refreshing knowing people can behave like idiots in every nation.
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This is an American site, and most of the users are American. America is also the most powerful country in the world still. It shouldn't be a surprise that someone brings up America as a comparison.
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Very possibly true.
Having spent much of the last 6 months working in Turkey, I've been meeting a fair number of Turks from all over the country. While most of them have, in fact been quite nice and personable people (including the ones who really didn't want to be there), I couldn't draw a geogra
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Turkey lies on the (mostly) land route between Europe and the Middle East. (Yes, this is the route the Ottomans followed when they conquered the Balkans.) It lies between the Back Sea (think Russia) and the Med and can easily control sea traffic between the two.
Turkey's value has nothing to do with its own politics and everything to do with geopolitics.
Hopefully, they will never gain entry to the EU unless and until they get rid of Erdogan and his Islamofascist rabble-rousers. Like Putin, Erdogan dreams of
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Hopefully, they will never gain entry to the EU unless and until they get rid of Erdogan and his Islamofascist rabble-rousers.
Exactly. I mean, when Sean Connery is your voice and people still hate you, you might be doing something wrong.
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The only reason Turkey is in NATO is because NATO now didn't want them to be part of the Soviet bloc back in the day. They occupy NATO's south eastern flank. They probably are somewhat useful now that Putin is trying to put the Soviet Union back together again. But they are not respected in the Mid-East, which remembers the Ottoman Empire with a certain amount of distaste.
One thing makes American foreign policy sensible, the fact that Obama is entirely gormless. The man is without any strategic vision, othe
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They did commit what they'll reluctantly admit were mass killings of Armenians (what the rest of the world correctly recognizes as genocide) in the aftermath of World War I.
During the Ottoman era, they did occupy Greece and were, like virtually every occupying force, remarkably brutal. This got a lot of attention in the West because they were oppressing Europeans and Christians (instead of Asians and Muslims).
But here's a story about them. During the Irish genocide by famine (when a country exports food
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Ah yes. We also put missiles there - I'd forgotten that, I was really young but should remember that. Still, it doesn't make sense to have them a member of NATO, given its name, but rather some other group.
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Wasn't it the Turks who did the whole Armenian Genocide thing or am I misremembering?
Atatürk had most of the genociders killed (because they opposed his rise to power and/or were incredibly incompetent). So it's a bit unfair to criticize Turkey for the acts of a prior regime.
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Good point though I wasn't really trying to do that - I was merely pointing out what I'd recalled from their history and certainly would absolutely never judge people by their leadership or even their majority. I judge based on what an individual does or says they will do. I, for example, have an outright loathing for my government. It is run by corrupt individuals. My fellow citizens are fat, lazy, and ignorant. I'd hate to be judged based on them though I can understand some categorization. I am, of cours
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Not that surprising for anyone that follows Turkish politics. Erdogan isn't as bad as ISIS but he inch-by-inch is taking Turkey down the theocratic road of countries like Afghanistan. He practically had to be coerced into fighting ISIS. Very plausible he would have joined forces with ISIS to fight Kurds if it hadn't been for foreign pressure)
Most Turks you meet are super nice in person but for some unfathomable reason this crpto-fascist jerk keeps winning elections. If he keeps winning elections, Turkey is going to devolve into a theocracy like most of the rest of the middle east. Secular Atatürk was rational (especially for his era). Erdogan things he's an Ottoman sultan. Populist moron.
Good post. Actually the word I keep hearing is that Turkey isn't fighting ISIS at all but is using it as a pretext to only attack various Kurdish groups they don't like.
As an American who has traveled quite a bit to Europe and consider myself somewhat pro-Europe, I have given up on Turkey. (Disclaimer - I've never visited Turkey.) If you could talk to me in the late 1990s or very early 2000s, I was all for Turkey joining the EU. I have completely reversed myself and now while I have no say as I'm n
...has been used by... (Score:4, Insightful)
I sure hope none of them wear Nikes.
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well, you have to wear same kind of nike knockoffs.
and piss off Erdogan by reporting PKK of consisting of human beings trying to fight ISIS to keep their brethren alive.
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Yea it's kinda like all you have to do in the US to get arrested for treason is reveal the way the government is abusing the citizens.
Get off your high horse. This wouldn't even make the news were it any other OECD country.
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They don't.
http://www.dailydot.com/politi... [dailydot.com]
Another technology to be avoided (Score:5, Informative)
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I still have a F-91W. Who wears watches, though?
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I still have a F-91W. Who wears watches, though?
Terrorists, obviously. Please report to the nearest police station, comrade!
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I still have a F-91W. Who wears watches, though?
People who don't want to dig out their phone and press a button to show the home screen every time they want to know the time?
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People who don't want to dig out their phone and press a button to show the home screen every time they want to know the time?
These days you don't have to press a button... the phone knows you're looking and shows you the clock
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I thought you were bullshitting or a spammer. *sighs* I kind of wish I still thought that but I clicked your link. Maybe we need to lock up anyone that uses Energizer batteries. There is one in the picture... I'm going to want a more compelling reason to believe that a wearer is a terrorist.
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To be fair, outside of Japan, that watch pretty much screams social ineptitude, and terrorists are nothing if not socially inept.
Come to think of it, that watch might be single-handedly responsible for the decreased birth rate inside Japan. It's like a birth control watch. Well, if it had hands anyway.
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I would not trade my Citizen for one. Yay! I am not a terrorist! My mother would be proud.
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Very interesting, I learned something about a Casio watch I used to own today!
Anyway back to the article, I think there should be a difference between using a specific encryption scheme (applying math to your data), and purchasing a physical piece of specific technology. But then again, there are import/export laws concerning security so I guess there is some legal precedent, even if it's questionable.
Re:Another technology to be avoided - Casio F-91W (Score:3)
Funny enough, I bought an F-91W because of this press. I was starting to realize that most of the time I was taking my phone out of my pocket, it was to check the time. Every time I did that, I was taking myself away from what I was doing for way too long, and it was one more chance to drop an expensive phone.
So: I went looking for a cheap watch. I first hunted down the F-91W because of the terrorist association press, and the Amazon reviews are awesome. It's also a common watch sold at US military PXs, so
https? (Score:5, Insightful)
What encryption system I wonder. Isn't https an encryption system that is used by Islamic State?
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Probably TrueCrypt, given that's what Snowden told Glenn Greenwald to use, and Greenwald is probably pretty close to the Vice news guys. Also, anyone wanting to protect their data from government surveillance would have been looking at the Snowden story very closely, so it's at least plausible, but very likely IMO, that ISIS uses TrueCrypt as well.
Well, well, VICE (Score:1)
Not so fun when your staffers are falsely accused of being terrorists in an area where the real world consequences could mean prison, or even death. Maybe your staffers over here in the US will learn not be so quick to flippantly and falsely label others as "terrorists" just because it gets you clicks and promulgates a feminist agenda.
SSL (Score:2)
So if i browsw Websites using SSL (something which the ISIS probably also does), i am also a terrorrist?
I guess i wont tranfer in Istanbul Airport the next time i travel.
Only idiots outlaw encryption ... (Score:2)
... what's next; banning Mathematics?? Because that's exactly what encryption is.
Instead of banning the tool (which never works) how about going after the _behaviors_.
Gee, if only we had some evidence about the power of peer pressure [rollingstone.com] (7. The Harvard Man)
Here you go, UK Government (Score:5, Insightful)
You wanted functional encryption to be made illegal. Turkey has just taken a bold step towards this brave stance. How does it taste to you? I bet the EU spokeswoman's comments made the pill even more delicious, since she mentioned human rights, which is something the UK government also wants to shred.
The Right Bills (Score:1)
Encryption is an inherently criminal activity: the only people who would ever think to engage in it are obviously nefarious cretins w/ something to hide [memegenerator.net].
Therefore, anyone who refuses to immediately give up their password/passphrase to Deputy Fife [wikipedia.org] or Mall Cop Paul [wikipedia.org] should automatically be sentenced to 20 years minimal time at hard labor.
Note that these evil terrorists also assert the following additional abominable outrages:
1. Right to exercise free religion, free speech, free press, free open assembl
BREAKING NEWS! (Score:1)
More at 11.
EU (Score:2)
Re:This is the future... (Score:4, Insightful)
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>implying that Republicans are going to know technology or use critical thinking skills
>implying that Democrats are likely to do so (my own text) instead of the Republicans
Maybe we need to start a public campaign to explain what the importance of this is. I don't think it is a party issue. My Republican and my Democrat associates all seem inclined to believe in the need to have the freedom to encrypt our documents. I don't tend to hang around with extremists and idiots so your mileage may vary. I thin
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My Republican and my Democrat associates all seem inclined to believe in the need to have the freedom to encrypt our documents.
I don't tend to hang around with extremists and idiots
danger! danger! contradiction alert!
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My Republican and my Democrat associates all seem inclined to believe in the need to have the freedom to encrypt our documents.
I don't tend to hang around with extremists and idiots
danger! danger! contradiction alert!
Most Republicans and Democrats are not extremists or idiots.
It does however appear to be a requirement for those running for higher offices.
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Most Republicans and Democrats are not extremists or idiots.
Spending a little time around either one will cure you of that thought. And yes, that means that the majority of the American population is either an extremist or an idiot, or both. There's been plenty of studies about how ridiculously polarized Americans are these days; this isn't an unfounded claim.
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I'm not trying to impugn most democrats or republicans, I'm just suggesting you may be overestimating your friends.
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why do you assume the RNC is the problem?
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Not encrypted? pfft...
http://pastebin.com/qjhSHxn8 [pastebin.com]
It is now.
http://textmechanic.com/Encryp... [textmechanic.com]
Password: ?KCO3&pS12=zNH4X
Yes, that took too much effort. Slashdot did not approve of the message. "Filter error: That's an awful long string of letters there."