Researchers: The Thermostat In Your Office May Be Sexist 388
sciencehabit writes: If you're constantly bundling up against your office building's air conditioning, blame Povl Ole Fanger. In the 1960s, this Danish scientist developed a model, still used in many office buildings around the world, which predicts comfortable indoor temperatures for the average worker. The problem? The average office worker in the 1960s was a 40-year-old man sporting a three-piece suit. But fear not, those for whom the 'work sweater' has become a mandatory addition to office attire: Researchers say they have built a better model.
Peh (Score:4, Insightful)
Sounds more like "slashdot is shilling for clickbait." In other news, users continue to flee slashdot in droves, DICE perplexed as to why site is becoming massively unprofitable.
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As soon as I saw the article in the Firehose, I knew they wouldn't be able to resist the SJW's siren call and it'd end up on SJWdot.
Honestly the biggest issue I have with modern Slashdot is the contempt you can feel from the editors for the readers. The editors aren't members of the Slashdot community. They clearly hate the community. See beta and the polls being moved to the main timeline. See the endless parade of stupid SJW articles like this one. See the lack of actual news for nerds - things like Comic
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Re:Peh (Score:5, Insightful)
Indeed, calling this "sexist" just devalues the word. It's based on old data and demographics have changed, that's all. Only a refusal to acknowledge that and act on it might be considered sexist.
Re:Peh (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not really old data, it's just that the modern author hasn't considered the practicalities of the situation.
Offices *still* have 40 year old men (and 20 year old ones, and 50 year old ones) in them, it just happens they have a bunch of women too. Those men can not remove clothes to become cooler without incurring the wrath of HR (quite rightly). Those women can add clothes to solve being too cold. Simply averaging the temperature people want the office to be set to does not make everyone comfortable, it just makes a bunch of mean sweaty and sleepy, with no way to correct for it.
Re:Peh (Score:5, Interesting)
the other practicality is that if its set too warm, there will be more post-lunch snoozing than there would be if you keep the place frosty.
Forget comfort, its all about productivity!
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You bet! That's why the thermostats at our offices are set at a balmy 43F. Any employee that slacks off after lunch loses an article of clothing, too. Perks the pace right up!
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You mean men are expected to wear certain set up gender topic clothing types....
Re:Peh (Score:5, Interesting)
Those women can add clothes to solve being too cold.
Clothes doesn't help after a point. If it's too cold, one's fingers can get cold, stiff and uncoordinated and that makes it harder to type. Ignoring the fact that women have lower peripheral circulation than men on average exacerbating the problem, I personally find that at my ideal comfortable temperature for working in indoor winter clothes (i.e. long trousers, t-shirt) it's in fact too cold for me to type with 100% comfort. I find that I'm something like the woman in this one: http://dilbert.com/strip/2005-... [dilbert.com]
But yes, it makes sense to go for the coldest temperature that people can tolerate given normal office attire. Sadly for me, fingerless gloves aren't normal office attire, so that temperature is above my ideal level.
Re:Peh (Score:4, Insightful)
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I've never tried them, I'm speculating that they'd help since they seem popular in cases where people work outdoors but need some dextirity. I'd be happy to, but I can see that it's a reasonable cause for complaint from office workers if everyone has to wear them. Such is life.
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The amount of energy wasted to make that happen as opposed to floating the temperature up from 68 to 70 must be staggering. The counter "can only strip off so much clothing" argument seems to assume that people would be completely nude at 70 or 71 degrees, which seems like a stretch. IIRC, the productivity research seems to indicate that 71 is about
Re:Peh (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not really old data, it's just that the modern author hasn't considered the practicalities of the situation.
Offices *still* have 40 year old men (and 20 year old ones, and 50 year old ones) in them, it just happens they have a bunch of women too.
So how do we manages this so as not to be a part of the Patriarchy and it's incessant microagressions?
Do we adjust the temperature to suit the one lady in my office who likes it at 80 degrees?
Do we adjust it to another lady who likes it at 68 degrees?
Or how about the one who likes it the way it's set now? Is she a dupe of the male dominated hegemony, and a traitor to her sisters?
Even if my personal experience of a slim majority of women preferring temperatures higher than what I like, calling the temp settings sexist merely shows the lengths that people will go to when they want to feel oppressed.
I'm envisioning Big Red freaking out about a one degree too low thermostat setting, and how little girls are set up for a lifetime of subservience and disappointment when they notice the thermostat at home is set up as the patriarch demands it.
So - can you tell a persons gender by the temperature thay are most comfortable? tl;dr version. This is bullshit - non gender biased human entities happen to have different temperatures at which they are most comfortable.
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yet here you are
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It seems like every other post lately has someone raving about clickbaiting and users leaving the site.
Honestly i feel like people are just looking for something to whine about. If you go back through slashdots archives you'll find plenty of light pieces like this going all the way back to the 90's.
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It seems like every other post lately has someone raving about clickbaiting and users leaving the site
That's very true, though in this case, the article is particularly stupid, or at least referring to the air temperature as "sexist". But I'm not leaving the site, because when a really silly article comes out, there's usually a lot of good, houmerous comments.
Re:Peh (Score:5, Funny)
It seems like every other post lately has someone raving about clickbaiting and users leaving the site
That's very true, though in this case, the article is particularly stupid, or at least referring to the air temperature as "sexist".
Just don't let the Weather Channel find out about this - I can hear it now......
"As the cold front approaches, the temperatures will be dropping into the sexist region, and we're expecting it getting to patriarchy level by tomorrow morning. So bundle up ladies, the microagression index is off the charts tonight!"
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I think it's an interesting and relevant (for many geeks) topic, it's just the way the headline is worded that I take issue with.
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These days the common thought seems to be that you can't get anyone to read anything without currying 'outrage'
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It's not that outdated. But it misses the part where it became conflated with lower-temperatures=more-productiviity until ice began forming on the walls.
The full stereotype is actually overweight men in 3-piece suits who spend a good deal of their day walking around (including leaving the office) and who reside in offices with outside windows where the sun heats them up. Because upper management controls the thermostat and the "glass ceiling" is alive and well. Although I'm not sure that having women in the
Re:Peh (Score:4, Insightful)
It's probably that the comments offer nothing of value, having become the bastion of old white hateful assholes.
Not point in visiting a news aggregator site where the user contributed content repels more than half your target audience.
But keep being a prick and lamenting the fall of /. , by all means.
See, the thing is, if you don't call someone an asshole for no reason all the time, they have somewhere to fall.
Once you do, being an asshole has no cost. I already am one. I am white, middle age, have a job, never been on welfare, never sucked another man's dick, never smoked crack, and never went to a hip-hop rave, I am not a fat ghetto hog with more children than rooms in my section 8 apartment.
I have NOTHING TO LOSE by being a asshole to some twat that comes oozing menstral thoughts onto slashdot berating me for being too white or too manly (a very preposterous thought on a NERD SITE.)
I am an asshole by what I AM by my very NATURE according to you twats.
Combine that with a steady stream of the same old shit as other sites, the same logic contorting and logic violating reasons for posting stupid stories about shit the productive audience (you don't count in that) doesn't want to discuss.
What you SJWs don't understand is left alone, the discussion gets intellectual and interesting and stays out of those concepts you don't like. At which time, you can participate in that culture too. We USED to have some cool discussions here 10 years ago. Here, nobody knows who the fuck you are, no avatar, no required sig, no required USERNAME for fucks-sake it's impossible to not be hiding if you just ignore it. If someone thinks you are a butch-assed female, is because you stated such. Lastly, Slashdot will ultimately fail at the new media ideals as other sites are better suited and populated for it. Ultimately slashdot will fail.
Nobody has any reason not to engage in stupid squabble fights and get out artistic haiku about your cunt anymore. That's the only entertainment that happens here now.
So your complaint with this place is YOU.
Fuck off.
Re:Peh (Score:4, Insightful)
What SJWs don't understand, along with many other people is your post which seems to be a long, angry undirected rant at I'm not sure what precisely.
It's directed at the person who said, "It's probably that the comments offer nothing of value, having become the bastion of old white hateful assholes." Clearly an anti-white racist who deservedly got smacked down.
Now do you understand, or at least see who/what the post was directed at?
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Fuck your "Old White" shit! Suck my cock you nigger, spick, fuck-tard.
Triggered!
Proposed solution is more sexist (Score:5, Informative)
Since TFS doesn't say, the old model says 21C is the best, while the "new" model says 24C is the best. The problem is, of course, that one can wear a sweater in colder temperatures, but it's difficult (or inappropriate) to cope with higher temperature.
As a young fat (by European standards, not American) male in a job with no format attire requirement, I usually wear a t-shirt and shorts in the summer, so there's not much left to take off. I'm still more comfortable at lower temperatures (22-23). I actually like wearing a hoodie, but I never do at the office because it's too hot there.
And no, opening a window (as suggested in TFA) is not a solution when there's 30 degrees outside.
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I'd also be interested in where this data comes from. I've noticed that, in general, air-conditioning in the US is done for coolness and in Europe for heat. In the US/Australia when you step into a building, train, or aeroplane, you feel chilled air (70F/21C). In Europe when you step into the same environment you feel warm air (24-26C or even warmer, don't know what that is in F).
It's most noticeable when you're flying around the world and transfer from a US/Australian to a non-US airline, you go from (w
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Re:Proposed solution is more sexist (Score:4, Insightful)
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"The push is toward energy-efficient buildings which require less active heating/cooling altogether."
Efficiency does not mean simply doing less effort. It means doing less effort for the same outcome.
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So here's a simpler solution: If you feel too hot in an air-conditioned environment, move to the US (I won't say move to Australia because you'll make up for the heat once you step outside). If you feel too cold, move to Europe.
Hell, never thought it was that simple!
Re:Proposed solution is more sexist (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Proposed solution is more sexist (Score:5, Insightful)
That's just what I came here to say. I walk around in the absolute minimum amount of clothes, and yet am still forced out of the office sometimes when someone goes into the meeting room and cranks up the controls. When I have to stay in the office during those times, I have to fight the urge to fall asleep. Today, the air-con stopped working and we all froze; but the productivity didn't fall because of it.
I still can't figure out why people feel the need to be warmer inside when it is cold outside. I don't dare warm clothes in the winter when going to work, because I know that I will burn up when I get inside. Instead, I wear layers of clothes, with my summer clothes underneath for when I am at work. Don't people know how thermostats work? You don't need to give hints to make it warmer by turning up the dial; if the cold outside has made the temperature go down in the building then the temperature controls will keep heating until it goes back up. It's not like it goes into overdrive and heat faster just because you push it to the max.
Finally, who actually thinks that people set temperature controls based on studies done in the 1960s? More often it will just be set on what seems reasonable by the person who operates the controls.
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The also left off that productivity drops faster with heat than cold.
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It's not the temperature, it's the humidity; at any temperature.
No question. Earlier this week, temps were in the low 80s and I was dying. Sun came out, temperature went up to 96 and it felt wonderful. Then clouds moved back in and I'm dying again.
Indoor thermostat is at 83 and with a little fan action that's fine, because the A/C is pulling water out of the air.
Re:Proposed solution is more sexist (Score:4, Interesting)
Not to mention that there's ample research suggesting that people are more active, alert, and productive at cooler temperatures compared to warmer.
Finally, while they certainly had electric typewriters, I doubt that the 1960s office had anywhere near the 'typical' warming-load of multiple 100+W heaters (computer, monitor, maybe printer, etc) at nearly every desk.
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I don't know about 1960s, but up until about 1985 you could wrap yourself around a mainframe terminal if it got too cold. Been there, did that.
Modern PCs can pull some power, but the draw on an LCD monitor is hardly noticeable. And the printer might pull a kilowatt when it cranks up, but in hibernation, it's only 5W.
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Obesity and temperature (Score:2)
When you mention your weight, that actually brought up a good point. The increasing levels of obesity in this country probably means that those workers need a cooler temperature as well. Many large individuals don't seem to cope well with heat, probably because of their lower surface area to mass ratios.
Even for men it's too cold (Score:3)
Even for a 40+-year-old male offices are too cold most of the time. And in southern Arizona the settings meant you hit a literally 40F+ wall walking out the building door. That isn't healthy. Although if you have to err it's better to have it set on the cool side, people can always add a sweater to stay warmer but you usually can't legally take clothing off if it's too warm.
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Speaking as a man... 21C is too warm for me. 24C will have me sitting there dripping sweat even if naked.
BS (Score:2)
72F is fine. Some like it hotter, some cooler. Gotta pick something, and 72F is a decent average.
They are just looking for reasons to save money. And be "green".
(And you wouldn't be so cold if you put on, you know, clothes. But that is "sexist" of me, so never mind ...)
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Saving money? Guess it depends on locale.
9 months of the year here, you're heating at night. 7 months of the year, you're heating 24x7. Much of the rest of the year, A/C isn't a biggie.
Saving here means cooler, not hotter. Likely the same for the Northern 1/2 of the US too.
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Saving money? Guess it depends on locale.
9 months of the year here, you're heating at night. 7 months of the year, you're heating 24x7. Much of the rest of the year, A/C isn't a biggie.
Saving here means cooler, not hotter. Likely the same for the Northern 1/2 of the US too.
Of course it varies by climate and time of year. TFA is talking about AC, so I'm assuming summer and hot.
I'm in the northern US, and we've had a cool couple of years, and that doesn't change anything I said. The bean counters want to have the thermostat at 75F (or higher) to save money in the summer, and 68F (or lower) in the winter, to save money.
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Sure.
But, this article is about a single, uniform, unchanging temperature that is slated to be 'perfect' for everyone. Which is silly, but under that context you stated that it was to 'save money'.
If you want to alter that statement (as you have), then fine...
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I'm in the sub-tropics. From late May until early October, chances are that the daytime temperatures will exceed 92 and the nighttime temperature will not dip below 72.
Setting an office temperature to 68 as is too often the case around here means that for 4 months of the year you're running cooling 24 hours a day unless you throttle back at night and even then you can't turn it off or you wouldn't get back down to 68 until noon.
Hardly energy efficient.
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Nine months of the year where I live, you're running your A/C. And you may find yourself running the A/C during the day a couple times in the remaining three months. Heating is for January (well, parts of December and February, but mostly January).
Re: BS (Score:2, Informative)
What does the cool air teach their nipples?
Taut, you ignorant shitbox. TAUT.
Not just sexist (Score:3)
In most offices it is very warm in winter, and very cold in summer. In winter, the heater is turned up too high, and in summer, the airco makes it way too cold. For the environment it's better to make the office just a little bit cooler than outside, and in winter, just warm enough to be comfortable. That will save a lot of energy, and prevent global warming. Which makes me think: is global warming sexist? Does global warming favor women?
Sexist thermometer (Score:2)
I'm a male and rarely find offices warm enough (Score:2)
I've had to purchase woolen jumpers, business jackets, 220v heated floor mats and I wear a full length white undershirt under my shirt.
The only time I'm warm in the office is if I load up on a heap of carbohydrates or sugar (my metabolism is toasty when I overeat) besides that, it's often far, far too cold.
I find it quite frustrating, sure too hot will send you to sleep but too cold is also awful.
Wow - who likes it that hot? (Score:2)
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If 24C is a suitable medium and the men would prefer 21C, doesn't that imply that the women would prefer 27C - that's sounds pretty hot.
I'm a man and i'd prefer 30C.
I often have to go outside and stand in the sun to thaw out - luckily i work in Darwin (in the Australian tropics) and it mostly is about 30C outside.
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I rarely find offices cold enough (Score:3)
because they turn off A/C over weekends and whatnot to "save money" where it's probably cheaper to just maintain the temperature rather than start having to cool everything again.
My apartment is rarely cool enough either because it's from the 60's and has shitty insulation and we've had it break consistently every year for the last 3 years. The complex is run by a corporate office out of another state and local management has changed 12 times in 7 years, so rather than replacing anything it limps along with duck tape and prayers. My electric bill was $190 last month, 960 sq feet should be easier to cool.
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Is it? I am not a physicist, but from a quick energy balance it looks like it should never be cheaper to maintain a low temperature (rather than let it get hot for a while and then cool it down again).
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Of course it's not cheaper to cool over the weekend than to turn it off. Cool air warms faster than warm air, so the cooler it is in the office, the more energy you need to extract from the office air to maintain temperature.
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The proof that turning it off over the weekend will save money is this. Imagine that they turned it off for some arbitrarily long time (say a century). Would that save money? Of course. How about for half a century. Et cetera. You have to pay to cool it back down again and that offsets some of the savings of letting the temperature rise. The question really is where the break-even point comes in. If you let the temperature rise back to ambient and then immediately cool down to desired temperature, that should be an approximately break-even time. Anything longer and you are ahead. Anything shorter and well you really haven't turned it off!
This is incorrect.
The rate at which heat enters a building from warmer outside air is proportional to the difference between the temperatures. If there's a five-degree difference half as much heat energy per unit of time enters the building than if there's a ten-degree difference. The amount of heat that must be removed Monday morning is the integral of that heat flow function. If you keep the office cool all weekend, you keep the interior/exterior temperature differential large and the heat flow high. If
I/m a real man (Score:4, Informative)
I'm a real man. I work outside doing manly work. All you pussies in your offices need to grow a pair and come outdoors.
Whining about how your little cubicle isn't just how you like it is not MANLY !
Come outdoors and meet the men's men !
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I'm a real man. I work outside doing manly work.
Are you a lumberjack? And if so, are you OK?
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With a good night's sleep, he's probably ready to work all day.
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But it's always a good idea to stop at tea time for a nice snack, such as buttered scones.
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I don't see what all the fuss is about for an office th
What about the sexist thermostat in accounting? (Score:2)
It's 102 degrees in there, the women all have it adjusted to insane warm levels and are STILL wearing sweaters in the summer.
I swear that I saw a couple of geckos running across the floor last time I dropped off company credit card receipts.
All it comes to preferences. (Score:3)
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Go ahead, blame the machine. (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyway, at temperatures below 28 deg c, simple fans can make people feel a couple of degrees cooler. Most offices do not permit space heaters, but I find people sneaking it in anyway, but small personal fans are usually permitted. I have always depended on these personal fans to control the micro climate of my personal work space. Can be used to deflect the air from the vent away sometimes, towards me other times, towards the office door to encourage circulation...
Our's is already 24 (Score:2)
When we moved into our new building with sealed windows and a management system, I fiddled about with it a bit until everyone was generally happy with it. It's exactly 24 at my desk as I type this, so I'd agree with that being a sensible temperature. 21 sounds much too cold. We wouldn't put up with that for too long.
Ageist or sexist (Score:2)
Use to work with several menopausal women who wanted things noticable cooler than the others, and ultimately it was agreed that either the women could walk around near nude or the rest could wear sweaters. Sweaters were the easiest compromise.
So by the researchers findings, is that ageist or sexist? I see that attempting to accomodate with the least amount of fuss is far too difficult in this PC age, and now the battle of the sexes is even fought with the thermostat.
Imagine my surprise when they didn't diff
Clothing design, not thermostats (Score:2)
I think it's clothing design that's to blame, not thermostats. Women's casual business clothes tend to be a lot thinner and flimsier than men's. Skirts are cooler than pants. Women's t-shirts have lower necklines and much shorter sleeves than men's. And women's clothes in general emphasize display more than comfort and tend to expose a lot more flesh than men's.
Regarding another poster writing about Arizona: Definitely! I was in Phoenix for a conference a while back and I happened to have a nasty col
Everything but sexism (Score:2)
I'm pretty sure the answers are everything but sexism.
Let's start with differing official and fashion-driven clothing standards. Women and men dress differently. Women's clothes tend to made of more sheer material and they generally wear less of it, especially younger women. Women get to adapt to hot weather with skirts, light blouses, Even though many men don't have to wear suits, men are still expected to wear pants and in some cases jackets even if ties aren't required, but there are still places tha
My work area is set to 75f, and I am sweltering (Score:3, Interesting)
As many have said, part of the problem is the acceptable business attire differences for men and women. The women where I work typically wear a thin shirt and a pair of shorts or skirt. Footwear is a pair of sandals.
For men acceptable attire is a shirt, over a T-shirt (I even got hassled because I was wearing a tank-top under my shirt one day), and a tie. The tie mandates that the shirt is buttoned up to the top. Then add long pants and full coverage shoes and socks. To top that off, we are "encouraged" to wear a coat when not engaged in physical activities.
It should come as no surprise that the men want the building a lot cooler; or allow the fashion to change so the men can wear lighter clothing.
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It's the humidity for me (Score:2)
At work it is similar, I'm in a large open office area. Even if the temperature is reading 72F, you can feel immediately if it stops working because the humidity creeps up. It can get uncomfortable quickly in business casual dress. Of course there are a few women who constantly complain they are cold, walk arou
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Exactly - humidity plays a large role in the apparent temperature. Unfortunately, it's far easier to make it cool and 80%RH than to have a moderate temperature and 50%RH. Pulling moisture out of the air is an expensive prospect. Having spent time in cleanrooms and some precision manufacturing facilities, there is nothing quite so refreshing as walking in from oppressive heat and humidity to a 23C room with 50% RH.
I have a wood shop space where I don't have air conditioning, but I have a dehumdifier that can
If the temperature were warmer (Score:2)
"Better model" translation (Score:2)
The anorexic 80-lb female will finally be able to forgo her sweater, while every guy in the place will be sweating like a politician at the Pearly Gates.
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I would say not having to be stuck in a room full of overly sweaty met at the cost of wearing a sweater isn't really a bad deal.
Realistically, most buildings Ive worked on just had bad bad ducting, and the thermostat was installed wherever it could be, with too wide a range (maybe to save on cost?). So by the time the temperature goes up 0.5 or 1 degree to make the A/C kick in, everyone on the other side of the room by the windows are cooking alive. To compensate, they turn down the temperature. They're sti
My toaster is racist. (Score:2)
Office thermostats are sexist?
Have I a story for you!!!
I put white bread in my toaster and it does not like that; the toaster makes the bread come out a darker colour. I can even put wholemeal bread in, and that is not dark enough for the toaster. Even when I put some of the bread back in the toaster after it has done its thing, it comes out even darker still. My toaster is definitely racist.
I wish (Score:2)
It seems like trend is way ahead of the news story on this one.
The office buildings I have worked in for the past several years seem to set to broil year 'round.
Yeah, I am an overweight 40yo male and I wish the thermostat was a few degrees more sexist....
Bah (Score:2)
The cooler the better.
You can always put on a sweater and layer up if necessary, there's a limit to how much you're allowed to take off to try and keep cool....
For the love of Zeus (Score:3)
"Stuff that matters", indeed.
Simple explanation (Score:2)
Men get warmer because we're doing all of the work.
=)
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This article is implying that women need different temperatures. It is sexist.
Article implying that someone wearing a wool coat over a woolen vest over a long sleeve shirt over an undershirt prefers a lower temperature than someone wearing a thigh-length skirt and bare shoulders seems to be articulating basic thermodynamics. Clearly the solution is to popularize "basketball uniform" as masculine business costume, so we can all be comfortable at 24 oC.
Re:Men and women are the same (Score:5, Funny)
Clearly the solution is to popularize "basketball uniform" as masculine business costume, so we can all be comfortable at 24 oC.
At 24C I'm not even comfortable naked and I'm pretty sure that nobody else would be comfortable with me being naked either.
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Clearly the solution is to popularize "basketball uniform" as masculine business costume
So, would I be able to buy some new Jordans and write them off as a business expense?
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Putting SJWs into cages?
With an evil misogynist at one end, and a crying feminist at the other. I think their head would explode trying to decide which was the more important issue to address.
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But my argument is usually similar to yours. IN that, especially at work......if you (a woman) are cold, you can put on a sweater or something.
But me? I legally can only get just so naked before there's a problem.
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I of course could strip down to my Mankini. The women would be distracted I am sure.
You know, as a man, I can confirm that it is very distracting to have one's eyes start to bleed.
I'm not allowed to be naked ... I tried.
You say that, but SCO (when it was cool, before the name got bought by vampires) had to introduce a dress code of "clothing must be worn during business hours" after a particular incident involving some visiting investors after hours.
http://www.antipope.org/charli... [antipope.org]
FTFY (Score:2)
If the average office worker was predominately dressed in a 3 piece suit then its not sexist its accurate for the time and probably out of date due to changing work place norms of various types.
There's no need to single out men. Put a woman in a three piece suit and she'll probably find 21-22C fairly comfortable.
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75F is fine...provided you keep the RH down at 40%. But that's expensive because you still have to remove all the latent heat. 70F and 80% RH is just cheaper.
Lame article (Score:5, Insightful)
Basically rehashes the Washington Post article from last week. Consensus: always possible to add clothes. Only so many clothes can be taken off, and it's not just men in 3-piece suits who sweat. Can buy personal heaters. Can't buy personal air conditioners. Deal with it.
Re:Lame article (Score:4, Funny)
Consensus: Perky nipples a cool and brighten any day.