Trillion-Dollar World Trade Deal Aims To Make IT Products Cheaper 97
itwbennett writes: A new (tentative) global trade agreement, struck on Friday at a World Trade Organization meeting in Geneva, eliminates tariffs on more than 200 kinds of IT products, ranging from smartphones, routers, and ink cartridges to video game consoles and telecommunications satellites. A full list of products covered was published by the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative, which called the ITA expansion 'great news for the American workers and businesses that design, manufacture, and export state-of-the-art technology and information products, ranging from MRI machines to semiconductors to video game consoles.' The deal covers $1.3 trillion worth of global trade, about 7 percent of total trade today. The deal has approval from 49 countries, and is waiting on just a handful more before it becomes official,
Re: (Score:1)
Nope, it just means that the US won't tax imports which are likely priced so low that it drives domestic companies to bankruptcy, similar to solar panels priced lower than the rare earth components a few years back.
It would be nice if a treaty to remove tariffs for US goods in China or other countries would be enacted, but when "free trade" is mentioned, it usually is just one way.
Re: (Score:3)
You can look up the products and see which ones have US-sided tariffs that are being eliminated
For example, non-volatile memory
http://hts.usitc.gov/?query=85... [usitc.gov]
Switches and routers ...have no existing US tariffs, and we would benefit from other countries dropping their barriers to trade
http://hts.usitc.gov/?query=85... [usitc.gov]
However, stereoscopic microscopes enjoy a 5-7% US tariff, and will see competition
It will take a while to sort out, but this may work in our advantage
Re: (Score:2)
I don't see why it wouldn't work to our advantage. The US has always been top notch in the tech sector, and hasn't depended on tariffs to do so. A lot of countries (especially ones in Europe) have tried using tariffs to try to counterbalance that, but it's never done anything other than make technology more expensive in those countries. If those trade barriers fall, then we'll see a LOT more money headed our way.
Re: (Score:3)
I don't see why it wouldn't work to our advantage. The US has always been top notch in the tech sector, and hasn't depended on tariffs to do so. A lot of countries (especially ones in Europe) have tried using tariffs to try to counterbalance that, but it's never done anything other than make technology more expensive in those countries. If those trade barriers fall, then we'll see a LOT more money headed our way.
People who understand quality pay for it, everyone else buys the rubbish that passes as merely a consumer item.
Re: Just products, or services too? (Score:2, Troll)
Sure, ok. (Score:1)
That certainly smells like BS.
Re: (Score:2)
Are you saying that my iPhone and Mac aren't made in the USA??????
Re:Sure, ok. (Score:5, Insightful)
Are you saying that my iPhone and Mac aren't made in the USA??????
Those are consumer devices that are nowhere near the level of a MRI machine - that is made in the USA, or at least most of it.
Apple, Microsoft and others are consumer commodity device and software makers.
But what kills me about these trade deals is that they benefit the multinationals. They now can arbitrage worker pay, import workers, etc ... and lower their costs, but yet increase their markets and keep prices the same.
If anyone thinks that "Comparative Advantage" exists in the 21st century, you need to get with the times. Those high tech whatevers have parts, design, assembly done all over the World. And it doesn't matter what industry it is. Your Toyota Camry is more American than the F-35.
The only comparative advantage any country has to offer is who has the cheapest and most educated workers.
Spiral to the bottom.
And the owners - the folks with capital - will be the winners.
Re: (Score:3)
And the owners - the folks with capital - will be the winners.
Capital - such as 401k - is not enough. It has to be in the billions to get those backroom deals.
Re: (Score:2)
MRI machines
http://hts.usitc.gov/?query=re... [usitc.gov]
Have no US tariff, this would allow us to sell more machines overseas to countries that have just eliminated their tariffs
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Spiral to the bottom.
Every time a free trade deal is announced, a lot of people come around and say exactly this. And you know what? All of them have ended up in our favor.
Re: Sure, ok. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I don't know man. As an American worker making minimum wage, I'm rather excited about the lower cost of imported communication satellites.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:1)
So they drop the import tax on Widget, locally made Widgets had already been competing with that established cost, what do you think this is going to happen to the local Widget maker?
Yeah, this is good news for manufacturing centers that already scrape the barrel because they flip profit overseas, for them its a minor adjustment, for the local company holy shit, imports (your competitors) just got cheaper.
So... you FAIL
What were the levels of the tariffs? (Score:1)
That list has some very specific entries on it.
What would be useful to know is what the end-consumer could expect to see in terms of savings from this tariff removal (should it be passed on at retail).
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Yup, that's my feeling exactly. For consumer/SOHO products, stores will never pass on the savings that this would bring, instead will just be raking in more cash.
However at the enterprise level I could see prices drop in accordance to this.
Re: (Score:2)
You must have missed all the "Other" and "Parts" in that list.
Even better news for China (Score:4, Insightful)
And all the other countries that actually make those tech products.
Re: (Score:2)
*bangs device with wrench key*
Re: (Score:1)
It doesnt matter if those countries get 100 bucks if 99 of them end up going back to cost of manufacturing.
Re: (Score:1)
But without robust protection for anyones IP they will never be able to support indigenous creation. As there will be no incentive for anyone to do so.
As such they will always trail or depend on others.
Re:Incentive (Score:1)
Re:Even better news for China (Score:4, Insightful)
Part of "cost of manufacturing" is paying workers. There and here. So it does matter. When my $100 goes there instead of here, our economy takes a hit. Tiny, sure, but when it's thousands or tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of "whatever", then it's no longer a tiny hit.
should result in lower prices (Score:2)
Ha ha ha! Very funny!
Ah, okay, not necessarily you and me. This so the industry can shift inventory around a little easier.
Re: (Score:3)
Manufacturing cost got cheaper (Score:2, Insightful)
Will those savings be passed to us, the consumers? Nope.
Not for Brazil (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Really? I thought getting rid of that "free trade" stuff would magically make Brazil an electronics powerhouse??? I guess those dang economists are right.
Trained Seal Show! (Score:2)
The one thing I've seen through the years is that if someone wants something, they get it. Computer hardware is at the top of that list. So we can dispense with the "good for everyone" litany. But lets ignore the obvious tax dodge and ramifactions. I wonder, "is computer hardware accessable to more people?"
Giant sucking sound (Score:1)
For those of you who remember the 90s. That giant sucking sound is the last of our industry leaving the US.
Non-tariff barriers? (Score:5, Interesting)
What about the non-tariff barriers? https://www.wto.org/english/tr... [wto.org]
That's where they sneak in the provisions about intellectual property rights, "market pricing," "investor-state dispute settlement"?
Is this like the Trans-Pacific Partnership?
Are they going to settle disputes by private arbitrators, whose decisions can't be reviewed by courts or changes by national legislatures?
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm still waiting to see how long it will take before someone realizes that America's anti-sex tourism regulations cut into a lot of business in Asia. While the Philippines were left out, I'm pretty sure the Japanese Yakuza manage a brothel or two dozen. I wonder what exactly those terms are that decide which corporations can sue over which regulations.
Re: (Score:2)
That's where they sneak in the provisions about intellectual property rights, "market pricing," "investor-state dispute settlement"?
Is this like the Trans-Pacific Partnership?
Are they going to settle disputes by private arbitrators, whose decisions can't be reviewed by courts or changes by national legislatures?'
-------
@Anonymous: "I'm still waiting to see how long it will take before someone realizes that America's anti-sex tourism regulation
Free trade with non-free countries? (Score:5, Interesting)
I doubt, free trade with non-free countries is beneficial to humanity. Though one can argue, that it makes such non-free countries more free, it is not at all evident, that that's what happened to China, for example.
Meanwhile, the US is gradually losing freedoms as there appear more and more things we aren't allowed to do or even say, and the list of places requiring identification is growing.
Re:Free trade with non-free countries? (Score:5, Interesting)
You know what? Free trade with the US is bullshit too, because free trade is a lie.
America still heavily subsidizes corn, but insists everybody else stop agricultural subsidies.
America is protectionist of their steel industry, despite being told not to.
America imposes tariffs on softwood lumber, despite WTO rulings against them.
America has instituted Country of Origin labeling requirements, which have been deemed by the WTO as illegal and harmful to anything but US business.
Trade with the US a pretty much a bullshit agreement when American assholes ignore the rules, claim they don't apply, and then whine and complain about hoe undemocratic the WTO is when the rulings don't go their way.
Fuck America. Fuck one sided trade agreements. Fuck you bunch of assholes who refuse to abide the rules you've insisted everybody else to.
America is the most protectionist and dishonest player at the table here.
Why the fuck should the rest of the US sign on to any agreement which improves the ability oft asshole Americans to sell into a country, while simultaneously ignoring their obligations to us?
Free trade with Americans is a fucking joke and a lie. Because America refuses to play by the same rules.
Fuck all of you. Free trade is a fucking libertarian fucking lie.
Worthless cunts.
Re: (Score:1)
Things like Country of Origin labelling requirements (especially for perishable goods and food: the WTO case I know of regarding this was on beef and pork) are Good Things that most countries want. Europe is fanatical about not only country-of-origin but region-of-origin for many products (i.e. Champagne).
The US puts tariffs on Canadian softwood lumber because Canada subsidizes logging: the tariffs even out the cost, so that there's competition in the marketplace. The same goes for steel. The only thing
Re: (Score:2)
I'm sensing a slight hesitancy towards this agreement.
Re:Free trade with non-free countries? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:1)
Same with the wankers from Europe. If a bunch of politicians say it's good, I'd be very surprised indeed if it's us poor wage slaves who get the benefit. The British government are trying to funnel all the money to the south-east and shunt the rest of us back to Dickensian times, then there's this crap that's even worse.
I'm tired of this planet. I want to go home.
Re: (Score:2)
Generally speaking, that should be an obvious "yes."
Very few of us outsiders deal directly (in a business sense) with any individual American people so when we bitch about "America" we are almost always referring to their generally horrific foreign policy rather than any specific person.
We all read /. and other news sources. We're well aware that much of your internal policy sucks as much if not more for Americans than your foreign policy sucks for non-Americans. But we've all got our own internal problem
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
LOLOLOLOL. America is the most protectionist? That's a good one Chuckles. Try actually selling something in China you brain dead reject. You have to get in bed with a Chinese company to even exist. Christ you're an uninformed twat if you think America is the most protectionist. Are there some things wrong with America? Sure. But everyone does it. Germany taxes American chicken, one of the Scandanavian countries has a cheese cartel, Canada makes a killing on fine wool suits by buying from embargoed countries
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Of, then there's the 'cultural' aspect unfunny sitcoms and hip-hip artists with their gyrating bitches [incidentally why don't feminists complain about this, I'm a white male and I find it sleazy and
Re:Free trade with non-free countries? (Score:5, Funny)
Hasn't China become more free?
IP Chapter? (Score:4, Interesting)
More slashdot propaganda for the US regime (Score:2, Insightful)
When has any of these 'free trade' agreements actually benefited workers? or even been about real liberalisation of trade laws?
This is just another 'agreement' made behind closed doors, by unelected apparatchiks, to implement policies that allow more redistribution of wealth to the rich, and to large corporations.
Oh please (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
I'd like to refer you to the Roman Senate's Salute to the Poor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Nobody should be allowed to run a conglomerate unless they personally know and care about all 100,000 individual workers.
I think caring about them collectively would be a good starting point. What, exactly, would be so heinous about that?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Free trade is like the free market: it's a complete fucking lie.
There is no free trade. Americans keep yowling about free trade, but when it comes down to it, Americans believe in a protectionist version of free trade.
When America stops having corn subsidies, or adheres to a single WTO ruling against them, we might start to believe you.
Until then, shut the fuck up you asshole. There is no fucking free trade. There is no fucking free market.
Moron.
To put worldwide trade in perspective (Score:1)
$1.3 trillion! That's a lot of money! It's a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier every 30 hours, or about what the US borrowed every year just a few years ago zomfg that's alotta money!!!1!111
I don't want cheaper!!! (Score:1)
I don't want cheaper, nobody does. We want better instead.
You know, a device that doesn't literally shatter when you drop it. Or doesn't get a scratch for every brush against your trousers, or a battery that actually lasts MORE than the warranty.
Because it seems to me, that without the law forcing them, the manufacturers are confusing device warranty with device lifespan. Before 2001, in my country, a term was coined, sounds a lot like "Chinoiserie" but with a different meaning, "Chinese POS" (antonym: Germ
Re: (Score:2)
I don't want cheaper, nobody does. We want better instead.
Sadly, only for a very tightly constrained definition of "we." Far too many people are either too poor or too stupid to buy quality products when they can save 20% and buy a similar product, even if it will only last 50% as long.
Even those that fall more to the "poor" side of the argument are stuck banking on the fact that the 30% difference is a future cost and buy the cheap shit anyway, because its that or nothing.
Its a well-known and well-documented phenomena. Unfortunately its also well-ignored. All
Slashdot - now a globalist mouth-piece. (Score:2)
Slashdot has just enough of the old Slashdot in it for me to stick around, it's still the definitive tech site. I have to say however the latest sale/purchase has really disappointed me. Any and all stories of a controversial nature are not by default slanted to a pro-globalist narrative wording. It was incredibly obvious with gamer gate, the repeated beating it into my head I should feel guilty that more women don't even want my job, and now pro TPP (which basically includes SOPA and PIPA in the text) a
Re: (Score:1)
I have a very simple rule I use when I decide to ignore something, go along with it or fight it.
1. Does it take MONEY or some kind of CONTROL out of my hands and put it in the hands of government or a corporation?
If it does, then I am completely against it and will fight it any way that I can. You should ask yourself this for everything in your life, and find ways to get stuff under YOUR control. Here are some examples for you to think about.
BANKING - If your money is all in the bank, it's under THEIR cont
Re: (Score:2)
It's almost like Slashdot, after helping to fight them off initially, is helping to sneak SOPA and PIPA in the back door....
Tariffs on widgets is not the problem with trade (Score:3)
Electronic widgets and their tariffs are not the problem with global trade. Severely protectionist tariffs and policies on agricultural commodities and large manufactured goods are the problem.
Better News? (Score:2)
...the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative, which called the ITA expansion 'great news for the American workers and businesses that design, manufacture, and export state-of-the-art technology and information products, ranging from MRI machines to semiconductors to video game consoles.'"
Uh-huh. Right.
You know what would be even better news for US tech hardware exporters?
If they didn't have a huge boat anchor attached in the form of NSA built-in backdoors and vulnerabilities.
Really, if you're a foreign corporation that competes in any way with US corporations/interests/research, or any government/organization/individual that US TLAs could possibly even tangentially term "of interest", would you buy stuff from US makers/manufacturers despite what's been revealed publicly over the last 20 ye
Private / Hidden negotiations? (Score:1)
Where was this treaty visible to the public during negotiations?
This treaty may be horrible. But just like more well-known free-trade treaties, it seems like we are just now finding out about it, after it is too late to do anything to change it.
*THAT* is what has to change.