Microsoft Admits Windows 8.1 Update May Bork Your Mouse, Promises a Fix 326
MojoKid writes "Microsoft has several valid reasons why you should upgrade to Windows 8.1, which is free if you already own Windows 8. However, there's a known issue that might give some gamers pause before clicking through in the Windows Store. There have been complaints of mouse problems after applying the Windows 8.1 update, most of which have been related to lag in video games, though Microsoft confirmed there are other potential quirks. Acknowledging the problem, Microsoft says it's also actively investigating the issues and working on a patch."
..and mouse scroll. (Score:3)
Re:..and mouse scroll. (Score:5, Interesting)
You're not kidding - things I've found wrong with it so far (less than 5 hours of use):
- Takes 1-2 hours to install [facepalm]
- Corrupts some Win8 Xbox game saves
- Adds UEFI watermark which can only be removed by installing an update (requires reboot too)
- Changes your folder/theme settings without permission
- Changes the folders setup in Windows Explorer to promote Skydrive (ya right!) and buries everything useful at the bottom
- Re-installs all the garbage you've spent hours uninstalling (bing/news/finance/etc)
- Doesn't restore the start button, just adds a button to bring up the full screen start
- Creates interface lag/"hiccuping" across all programs
- Removes the lease offensive drop corner\
- Enabled touchpad clicking on my mouse, despite the ELAN options showing it as disabled
- Forces powder blue backgrounds on tiles which make reading difficult (no personalization option to change it)
- Pins IE to the taskbar
Everything in Win8/8.1 is counter to productivity and just makes me want to switch to a new OS, unfortunately I wasn't able to downgrade this system to Win 7 64bit and I'm still not confident in Linux's ability to remain stable/repair itself easily without having to frequently re-install.
Re:..and mouse scroll. (Score:4, Informative)
I'm still not confident in Linux's ability to remain stable/repair itself easily without having to frequently re-install.
I'm using a Linux box for 4 years, without a single reinstall. Of course, I'm using a "more professional" one.
Be aware that there's more than a single Linux distro, and not all of them focus on stability or security. The ones that focus on mimicking Windows tends to mimic it too much accurately, in my humble opinion.
Re:..and mouse scroll. (Score:5, Informative)
Wow, you sure found a lot more problems with Windows 8.1 than I did. Really, I only had one problem with it: when booting, after making it past the Windows logo, it just sits at a black screen. You can move the mouse around at this black screen, but you can't log in or do anything.
Other than it crashing to a black screen on boot, I've had no problems with Windows 8.1.
Well, OK, I've posted about this on Slashdot before, and finally got it fixed. Apparently Windows 8.1 decided to nuke the drivers that came with my laptop and use broken ones instead. Reinstalling the original drivers fixed everything. So, thanks for that, Windows 8.1 upgrader.
And because they're still hilarious, here are Microsoft's instructions for booting Windows 8/8.1 into Safe Mode [microsoft.com]. Note that the instructions to enter Safe Mode requires the computer to be booting successfully. Also note that they tell you that you can't use F8 to boot into safe mode any more, but don't tell you that it's now shift-F8. The bit about Windows 8 giving you no chance to hit this is actually true; I wound up powering off the laptop during boot to "trick" Windows 8.1 into taking me to the recovery menu. (As getting to the black screen counted as "booting" as far as Windows cared.)
Shift-F8 does work, by the way, if you get lucky and hit it in that incredibly short window that the OS checks for it.
keyboard still needed for typing / coding (Score:3)
keyboard still needed for typing / coding.
I don't see any big typing work being done on a keyboard.
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Re-installs all the garbage you've spent hours uninstalling (bing/news/finance/etc)
Hours uninstalling? That's not even hyperbole that's just an outright lie. This is how long it takes to uninstall all of the metro apps:
1) Click Start.
2) Right click on every app.
3) Click uninstall at the bottom.
Shouldn't take more than 10 seconds.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:..and mouse scroll. (Score:5, Informative)
It's not even "adding a button." It's adding a button *graphic* in the lower left corner where there was *always* a "hot spot" to click for bringing up the menu windows.
Re: ..and mouse scroll. (Score:3)
Hairy feet, as usual, you are misguided. People aren't switching to tablets because of anything Microsoft does are did. The switch was inevitable. A large portion if the population previously bought PCs to consume content, and when a better platform arrived, cheaper, mobile, and better for consuming content became available, those users switched to it.
As for Microsoft listening, perhaps you should listen to yourself. The masses has spoken, and they wanted a more mobile, more touch friendly environment that
Re: ..and mouse scroll. (Score:3)
You provided citations that don't prove what you said you retard. Go google the citations yourself. I got better thing to do.
Re:..and mouse scroll. (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm still not confident in Linux's ability to remain stable/repair itself easily without having to frequently re-install.
I would say Linux is superior to Windows in that regard. I used to need to reinstall Windows yearly to keep the system running well, but after I changed to Linux the only times I've needed to reinstall it were when upgrading to the latest version of Ubuntu*, or changing distros.
Actually, the main impetus for the switch came when my user profiles under Windows got corrupted and there was no way to recreate them without reinstalling it. Under Linux, the same problem is trivial to fix - just delete/rename the home folders and everything gets regenerated.
*While you can upgrade without reinstalling, I've never trusted it after doing the same with Windows a few times ended badly. Since then I've changed to a rolling release distro, and now I don't even need to do that.
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Actually, the main impetus for the switch came when my user profiles under Windows got corrupted and there was no way to recreate them without reinstalling it.
The end result is good (you ditching Windows) but this is incorrect. Safe mode, delete the profile directory in C:\Users, then reboot and log in. The user profile will rebuild. Of course, all your shit is gone unless you backed it up first, but even then you still have to put things back and fix your settings again.
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It's all borked..please be sure to fix the scroll button, too. The scroll speed is different each time i log in!!
How about allowing all apps to have desktop shortcuts - not just some.
Re:..and mouse scroll. (Score:4, Insightful)
> Another satiesfied Microsoft customer?
Well, yes. We use it because for one reason or another, we have to, usually because a commercial product is required, and we complain bitterly about it -- who, that didn't actually work in Redmond, wouldn't? (Actually, that's not entirely true -- even there, people complain, but quietly, to trusted friends.)
As to FOSS, yeah, my website and blog and my daughter's blog all run on a Linux box I administrate, using software I partly wrote, and if all I ever did in life was use EMACS to pound out Python, I'd drop Windows in a heartbeat. But some of us have things to do that can't be had from sourceforge.
Mind you, I'm hanging onto Windows 7 with both hands. We have a touch screen laptop running Win8, and it's junk. Maybe it'll run Android some day.
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I know it's unfashionable but I'm actually okay with my Windows 8 laptop. It boots from cold in under 4 seconds. On Windows 7 I replaced the start menu anyway because I prefer the old "all programs" menu, so I just did the same on Windows 8 and booted directly to the desktop at the same time. No issues with the 8.1 upgrade, seems just as smooth as before and everything works.
Windows 8 itself is fine. The new task manager is nice, the flat look is nice, everything else is pretty much the same as it was in 7.
Re:..and mouse scroll. (Score:4, Insightful)
Sure, Windows 8 is fine... after you replace the UI shell.
Please tell me why that makes Windows 8 OK? That you have a third-party workaround does not mean the original problem isn't still there.
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At least Microsoft support won't call you a stupid noob to your face.
You get what you pays for, right?
With FOSS, you can try to fix it yourself or pay someone to do that for you.
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You get the same thing with FOSS, or do you think everyone in the world can program and has the time to sift through their program's code to find an obscure bug the main developers overlooked or didn't feel like fixing? At least Microsoft support won't call you a stupid noob to your face.
When was the last time you used Linux? In your world, I could complain about usiung Windows 3.1.
Oh - wait. You've probably never used Linux.
As an example, I recently replaced Ubuntu with Linux mint on a dual boot laptop. Got everything I needed, all the drivers, and every thing worked perfectly after a few mouse clicks.
HeII, that's a complete OS change, and it's easier than a Windows update, which likely as not will bork something.
Re:..and mouse scroll. (Score:4, Insightful)
At least Microsoft support won't call you a stupid noob to your face.
That's right what they will do is joke about it with their friends while you are on hold and after you hang up.
Been there seen that.
You have to test the mouse for OS updates now? (Score:4, Interesting)
Wow just wow now what enterprise app will get messed up with other stuff in windows 8 / 8.1 that was not tested before updates?
Re:You have to test the mouse for OS updates now? (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, if there was changes to the way mouse handling works.
Apparently Windows 8.1 includes changes to how the mice/trackballs/etc work. Also, there's more than one way to interact with the mouse via the set of APIs available to windows developers. Some games exhibit odd mouse behaviors, some don't.
This is a huge downside to the touted "backwards compatibility." Sure you're supporting a lot of apps, but a lot of those apps certainly do things the wrong way.
Re:You have to test the mouse for OS updates now? (Score:5, Funny)
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The best of both worlds they said!
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Maybe only they are 100% bug compatible.
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I am having the stuttering-skipping problem mentioned above. Funny thing, it only happens with a Microsoft Mouse!
That's a feature, dude! You want things to work right, ya gotta have the original equipment.
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Yes, if there was changes to the way mouse handling works.
1986 called, and they have some ideas about how to make a mouse work.
So what is next? Windows going to go to escape codes for printers?
I hear that in the Windows 8.2 upgrade, they might even have landscape printing!
Cutting edge, this Microsoft!
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Re:You have to test the mouse for OS updates now? (Score:5, Interesting)
Every time a USB drive was put in, a new device driver, and probably malware, was installed.
It's even worse than that. It reinstalls the device drivers every time you plug the *same* device into a different USB port. I'd hoped this behaviour would go away when my WinXP work PC was replaced recently with a new Win7 PC, but no - plug USB headphones into each of the 4 front USB ports and it reinstalls the drivers 4 times. That's pretty brain-dead.
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Good point... The "M" in KVM is kinda basic...
Valid reasons? (Score:5, Informative)
What are these reasons? I'm being serious. I have yet to see a reason to upgrade from Windows 7 this soon in the game
Re:Valid reasons? (Score:4, Informative)
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I sure hope those are not the killer, must-have features and you just omitted the ones that only a tiny subset of users could possibly care for.
Is there any game maker crazy enough to make games that are NOT compatible with a Windows version below 8?
Much improved Direct3D capture support when using VS 2013 Graphics Diagnostics
Since I don't even know what this might entail, I'm fairly sure that I don't really care too much about it.
Native USB 3.0 support
I don't really think that the hassle of installing a USB 3.0 driver in Win7 outdoes the hassle of having to deal with Win 8 in general.
200% High-DPI scaling support
See two features abo
Re:Valid reasons? (Score:4, Informative)
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8.1 fixes some of the Windows 8 brain damage
Could you elaborate? The main differences I see are boot to desktop and a pointless start button that you can't disable.
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The start button does actually help when doing RDP of VMs. Every single program isn't automatically pinned to the start screen any more. More of the settings are available in metro, and now you can configure graphics for the metro desktop background the change isn't so jarring between metro and desktop. But yes, there is plenty of brain damage still there.
Again, the big reason for running 8.1 is support of 2012r2 servers. We skipped Windows 2012 on the server side and skipped 8 on the clients. But i
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The Windows 2012 R2 RSAT requires the Windows 8.1 client OS.
So if I stay away from Windows 2012 R2, I can keep my Windows 7 boxes? Good to now!
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-Faster boot times
-Better SSD support
-less ram used by OS
-storage spaces if you have a bunch of disparate disks and want data redundancy
And you can boot to your desktop so you never see "metro" if you don't like it.
Re:Valid reasons? (Score:5, Funny)
-Faster boot times
-Better SSD support
-less ram used by OS
-storage spaces if you have a bunch of disparate disks and want data redundancy
Conclusion: Windows 8 has a tiny amount to offer.
Windows 7 or 8 -->Windows 8.1
- you can boot to your desktop so you never see "metro" if you don't like it.
- your mouse won't work.
Conclusion: Windows 8.1 is essential if you hate working for someone. "Mouse no worky, I'm going to lunch."
Re:Valid reasons? (Score:5, Insightful)
Legit Question: If it needs less ram, then can you actually run it with less ram?
It seems that line gets mentioned with every new release but it actually means ram usage quadruples.
Remember that XP only needs 128mb of ram to function.
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Legit Question: If it needs less ram, then can you actually run it with less ram?
aahahahahhahaahahah .
no.
do you think those tiles work with zero ram? active tiles, with active code behind them you can't kill, which are displayed with high resolution buffers that need to stay in ram?
I thought I upgraded to 8.1, but I didn't. it botched something. what I got was a fullscreen popup/reminder that I should update. I pressed yes, it started downloading.. but nothing has happened since. I suspect it's because I'm
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The full screen start menu bothered me at first, but I actually like it better now. Pretty much everything else is the same as Windows 7.
A lot of people complain about the metro stuff but they are just being stupid. There is nothing forcing you to use the metro apps on a PC, just use the desktop versions.
If you're building or getting a new mach
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Or XP SP3. Oh wait, newer games don't run on it. :(
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This friendly computer support tip brought to you by your local NSA extension service.
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8 is the usual "odd" version of Windows. For generations of Windows, you could only use every other generation.
Win95? Good.
98? Average
98SE? Good
ME? (this space left blank in the name of good taste)
XP? Good
Vista? Crap
7? Good
8? Do I really have to say anything about it?
So, essentially, if the history of Windows teaches us something, then to simply sit and wait 'til the successor of 8 emerges, and hope that our Win7 installations will tide us over.
Re:Valid reasons? (Score:4, Insightful)
Windows 2000 doesn't count?
And Vista was actually fine. The major difference between 7 and Vista is that hardware was too far behind the improvements in the interface.
Watermarks (Score:5, Informative)
And give me the ability to hide that stupid "Secure Boot isn't configured correctly" watermark sitting on my desktop! I have it turned off for a reason, I don't need to be harassed constantly about it.
Re:Watermarks (Score:5, Informative)
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THERE! Thank you. No more watermark. I wonder if this was their fix for the other systems afflicted with this message.
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to microsoft, that notice is and was not a "bug" it was a feature designed to scare people into having secure boot on, insuring that only microsoft-authorized operating systems would run on that hardware.
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... but if you aren't using Windows, that notice won't appear anyway, right?
it's not added by the video BIOS or something, is it?
Re:Watermarks (Score:5, Informative)
It was only a bug when it appeared on systems with secure boot enabled, on systems without secure boot, and on Windows RT devices. It still appears on my system because I explicitly turned it off. Now I want to hide the notification.
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Bitching about reality does nothing to change reality and just ruins your peace of mind.
If you don't bitch about what you want fixed, things simply will not be fixed.
I got my peace of mind using things that does not annoys me.
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In other words, Secure Boot will be enabled and configured (with "default values", of course) for you, whether you want it or not?
Windows 8.1 Update May Bork Your Mouse (Score:5, Funny)
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But what do those people do who don't have a touch screen? Ya know, the 99% of users suffering from the trainwreck.
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You means like most people with windows that don't downgrade to windows 8?
Funnies aside, MS threw pretty much everyone with a desktop under the bus with w8 to get their failing phone OS more familiar with people.
It's a secret plot. (Score:2)
To get people to use the touch interface.
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I am imaging the new range of after market rests, You know, keyboard rest, mouse rest and now touch screen rest, I thinking some sort of suspension system hanging from the ceiling, you know something you would see in a hospital for people with mangled arms.
It isn't just MS Mice (Score:4, Informative)
SteelSeries mouse drivers will cause the Windows 8.1 upgrade to fail.
Microsoft really screwed something up with the Windows 8.1 mouse drivers. They really need to get this fixed.
There is a simple fix (Score:5, Informative)
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Interesting... that feature actually makes sense, in most contexts outside of gaming. I can't count the number of times I've called my laptop bad names because the cursor jumped while I was typing, due to me accidentally brushing against the touch pad. It's unfortunate it doesn't distinguish between a built-in touch pad and an external mouse though.
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The Synaptics driver has this feature. Depending on how much your OEM spent on driver licensing, it might be turned off in your driver. If your laptop has anything but a Synaptics touchpad, it's a festering piece of shit.
The solution to all Windows 8 problems... (Score:4, Insightful)
...is to install Windows 7.
Assuming there's driver support.
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Pretty much.
I wait a few years for each MSFT OS to mature before using it on my own machines. "New" Windows releases aren't exciting, they are an annoyance because they demand much change for little benefit.
Mouse works fine, Sandy Bridge HDMI not so much (Score:3, Informative)
I installed 8.1 and the first two things I noticed- 1) it reset my icon size to medium, which on my 2560x1440 monitor looks ridiculous and given how they imported all my other settings... why? and 2) the HDMI output of my motherboard stopped working. After installing 8.1, I did some searching and apparently Sandy Bridge was not included in Intel's beta driver development for graphics for 8.1 and there is no known development being done for Sandy Bridge, so if I want to continue using my computer to communicate via the HDMI port to my television I need to upgrade to an Ivy Bridge, drive my 'small' 2nd monitor off of VGA (no fscking way, but supposedly analog ports off of S.B. are working fine- I haven't tested it), or upgrade my video card to one that can drive a 3rd (non-DP) monitor. Yes, I could also switch my DVI 2nd monitor to the mobo and put my TV into the HDMI on my video card, but that causes some really strange window relocation issues when waking out of sleep- I have tried that in the past.
For people using only on-board video via HDMI to their sole monitor and without a desire to upgrade S.B. or buy a new computer, it must be enraging. I guess I am lucky, upgrading this motherboard (ASRock Extreme4 Gen3) to Ivy Bridge was something I was planning to do this month, anyway. For Intel not to include Sandy Bridge, a chip only about 2 years old, in their driver development for 8.1 is pretty lame. A Microsoft suggestion was to reinstall the Intel video drivers with compatibility settings for Win 7 or 8, but that didn't work for me.
One of a kind (Score:2)
An OS update that breaks something that was working before?
Only Microsoft....
Win8.1 borked a lot of things (Score:2)
I just did the update on my Surface today. Not a happy experience.
Took 2+ hrs to download a 2.1GB install. Took another hour or so to install. Then download all the updates for another 30 minutes.
Win8.1 borked a lot of things:
1) Maps application on my Surface has stopped working
2) Forcing signing to a Microsoft account when you restart until you fail signing in 3-5 times then it lets you do a local account
3) IE has been crashing on me constantly. Could just be ESPN.com doing something weird. But it wa
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I hated that. At least you could easily skip it in the original Windows 8 setup. The other solution is to disable network connectivity, it then will let you skip creation of a Microsoft account.
It's probably the most underhanded way I've ever seen to try and herd people into your services.
This happened because (Score:2)
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No, they all got touchscreens because that's the new thing. Didn't you get the memo?
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Tested fine on minesweeper and solitaire.
MS knew the Win8.1 DPI scaling was messed, yet (Score:5, Insightful)
still released it that way in spite of the problems. Arrogance is the only logical explanation.
This has been a well documented problem from earlier preview builds and was specifically not fixed in the RTM code because... well because MS seems to think it can make unilaterally bad UI decisions again and again and get away with it.
Try setting your Win8.1 display to 150% on a 1920x1200 monitor. This is exactly where I've used WinXP, WinVista, Win7 and Win8, yet in Win8.1, a random assortment of applications (including many MS utilities and 3rd-party programs) deliver barely readable fuzzy characters. At least in Win8.0, you could set a master switch to tell the OS to disable DPI scaling, but in their infinite wisdom, some group within MS decided that to hell with useability, they're going to simply remove the master switch and force ALL users to disable DPI scaling on an app by app basis, making it bloody well a gargantuan effort to avoid either fuzzy or tiny text.
It's absolutely appalling... About as appalling as MS deciding that Win8.0 users shouldn't be able to boot into desktop mode on a non-touchscreen device and then completely removing the start menu as if giving the middle finger to the existing install base was some kind of magical shortcut back to a dominant market position.
If you're arrogant, but generally make good or at least non-destructive UI decisions, most people will forgive you. When you're arrogant and make butthead UI decisions, well, then you're MS.
They've managed to marry Apple's arrogance with butthead UI decisions.
8.1 is an Improvement (Score:2)
Windows 8.1 borking your mouse is an improvement over Windows 8, since 8 totally borked the user interface and basically took a reasonably good OS and turned it into a pile of shit so Microsoft could unload more tablets.
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I was OK with 8.0. I've reached the point where I hate the new versions of everything (except maybe XFCE, which is pretty much pitched toward people who hate the new versions of everything). The reason is all this struggle to revolutionize the user experience seems to have left the goals of making common tasks convenient for the user behind. Impressive but pointless seems to be à la mode these days, and designers appear increasingly incapable of distinguishing creativity from novelty.
But given that
universities with there theory loaded coders & (Score:2)
universities with there theory loaded coders & MBA's who don't really real experience are running the show or people who have more of a tech background.
New video game excuse: You lost again? (Score:2)
"I'm waiting for 8.1, dammit! Seriously!!!"
app compatibility is big for Enterprise the store (Score:2)
app compatibility is big for Enterprise the store only idea will kill windows for Enterprise and gameing.
steam on linux will be like the 1# games store if MS trys to suicide like that.
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I don't even know anybody who games on Windows any more. You gotta deal with incompatible drivers, malware, constant stream of patches, this game needs that version of the driver to fix all the bugs, meh...
Indeed. That's why I mostly play games on Linux through Wine.
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2 words: "Mouse" and "keyboard".
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I prefer my HD games to be rendered at 1920x1080 rather than some sub-720 resolution and scaled up. Actually, I'm running three 2560x1440 monitors but that's even farther (further?) removed from what current consoles can do. And I like having a keyboard and mouse for the games that play better with them. Not having that support on the PS3 and XB360 is stupid.
Having played the Glorious PC Gaming Master Race card, I plan to pick up a PS4 when they hit the streets.
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Previous versions of Windows have had DPI settings. Why is this problem new in Windows 8.1?
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I'm amazed something like this even passed Quality Control.
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All depends on what kind of requirements QA gets to fill.
I'm fairly sure the main cardinal rule for QA is valid for QA in MS too: Never, ever, under any circumstances, no matter how obvious, no matter how logical, no matter how well intentioned, one thing you may never do: NEVER EVER THINK.
You get your QA sheet, you tick it off, and when you're done you put it aside and you don't think about it. If that was not on the tick sheet, QA might even have noticed it but usually the only thing you could possibly ge
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I'm sorry, I don't buy it. ("It" meaning that this is the cause or that you are a Microsoft employee.)
*How* are the mouse coordinates getting messed up? Because the developers at Microsoft can't write scaling code? It's very simple math. A few unit tests and it's golden. Are you telling me, as a Microsoft employee, that your developers can't write unit tests or do basic geometry for one of the primary functions on the project responsible for the biggest profits of one of the richest companies in the wo
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I worked at a place where a big piece of production code, a 17 year-old MS-DOS application likely written in C or assembler, was nowhere to be found. The executable form was copied and used at least 10 times a day to ship product, and yet nobody knew where the actual code was.
More disturbingly, that same place had implemented FPGA code which was programmed at the board-house, and one of the internal reasons for the big push to our latest product is that nobody now in the company understands that FPGA code,
Re:I told them to fix it (Score:5, Insightful)
I just want you guys to know that as a developer I have been debugging what I believe to be the side effects resulting from these changes all week. It's not just "mouse co-ordinates" that are affected, you have some very common APIs scaling window co-ordinates in totally unexpected and inconsistent ways now. You have totally broken certain application behaviors, and only in 8.1, and while I found a workaround for my use case I can also see that the workaround I'm using will break more things for others.
Next time you ask yourselves, "should we make these APIs suddenly behave differently than in all older versions of the OS?" there should be a very, very high barrier to saying yes, especially for a service pack release.
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MS employee here
What? This mess could be avoided? Please come to my office and tell me about it, I'll be happy to understand why you needed to use Slashdot instead of our marvelous bug tracking and internal communications process.
Truly yours,
Ballmer.
p.s.: Bring your own chair.
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I'd grab a bean bag one :D
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I somehow do not think that MS is completely dense. I could somehow imagine that they might by now noticed that a portion of their users is not completely in love with Metro.
Your analysis, i.e. that they try to win back users that went to Apple, is correct, I think, but I think they didn't yet fully understand just why people went there and how to counter it. Because MS cannot counter that phenomenon. For a very simple reason: MS makes no hardware. Or at least, no "computer" hardware, no main units, only pe
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Why bother fixing it? Just censor the problem like the other fruity company.
You're right, I never heard about Apple censoring their OS screwing up mice. They really censored that pretty well.
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Re:They're doin' it wrong (Score:5, Informative)
This update breaks mouse in GAMES.
So your update breaks games entirely. A pretty steep downgrade.
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I think it's some kinda frontend for Linux. Ya know, like Gnome. Just with fewer features.