IT Job Market Recovering Faster Now Than After Dot-com Bubble Burst 242
tsamsoniw writes "More new tech jobs have emerged since the end of the past recession than during the same recovery timelines following the dot-com bubble burst and the early-1990s recession. What's more, the unemployment rate among technology professionals is now half that of the national average — with especially low unemployment rates for database administrators and network architects. What's not clear, though, is how many unemployed techies aren't being counted because they've abandoned job searches."
At least one (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, I've pretty much stopped looking. I suppose what I'm doing now counts as a "tech job", but the IT job market sure has lost a lot of appeal to me. Who wants to get chewed up and spit out again?
Re:At least one (Score:5, Interesting)
I was (still am) out of work for a long, long time. spent 5 years at a big-name bay area company only to get rif'd when a huge org change happend.
for the first 6 months, I looked and looked hard. companies were not hiring and those that were, were asking for god, himself. nothing you could do would be good enough and the rates were below market, taking advantage of the poor job market.
I gave up, started my own one-man company in the hardware/software area and made some product prototypes. was hoping to bring them to manufacturing but was a bit outside my experience level (I did the hardware design, software/firmware, mechanicals, user interface, pretty much everything, all using home lab equip I bought used on ebay).
FINALLY, once the year turned over, I started getting calls from companies and recruiters. like the flood gates opened! night and day. not sure why, exactly, but I'm not complaining!
it was a very dry period for a few years. fwiw, I have 30+ years writing C code in the networking field and have spent the last 20 yrs in the bay area. yet I could not get anywhere during the dry-spell of the last few years.
I hope this up-turn is going to stay. we have been at bottom long enough!
(wish me luck, too; I have some onsites this and next week).
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Re:At least one (Score:4, Interesting)
its double-edged, though! I was proud of my design and implementation and on some early interviews, I actually took my hardware with me and gave a demo of it if I was allowed. it never went well, for some reason. I think it put some employers off! they thought 'he's too hardware focused and this is a pure software job'. not realizing that there is over 10k lines of c/c++ code in my embedded project, not to mention the linux host side of things (the ip stack).
I got tagged as 'too entreprenurial' and not enough of a team player. go figure! I worked on my own because I had to and I could not afford to hire anyone. that does not mean I avoid group work. but companies are very quick to summary judge you and there is such a thick stack of resumes waiting, they won't spend time with you to see that you are 'not just a hardware guy'.
when I talked about my own company, some people were not sure I'd want to stick around at -their- company. that was not true, as I was (and am) fully ready to make the change back to the corp sw-eng job again, but most companies were not happy to take any chances. 'he might leave!'. gee, that applies to anyone, though.
too much of something or too little. life is about finding the right quantity, I guess ;)
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HR will always find something when you're actually too old (expensive) in their opinion.
Re:At least one (Score:4, Insightful)
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a lot of the game is getting past the HR filter. you have to guess what will get you points and what would be something they don't like. I haven't really crafted different versions for different jobs; the same file was sent out to all the jobs I applied to. I did what I did during the times that I stated. all of the jobs were important to me and I could describe what I did at each place. its about 3 pages, though; and I know that's long, but I have worked at a lot of places during the past 35 or so yrs
Re:At least one (Score:4, Insightful)
Take the advice of another old fart: Lose the old experience, and don't date anything past the last three jobs, or 7 years, whichever is least. Like you, I used to feel that all of my experience was (or could be) important, since it was broad in scope and domain. However, I found that taking all the old experience, pulling out some keywords, and paraphrasing the rest into short paragraphs made all the difference. When I looked like an old geek, I got nothing from anyone, even when I regularly updated my resume online. Once I removed any indication of my age, I started getting 2-3 phone calls and at least 5 emails per day, wanting me to talk to them. Fortunately by then I had a reasonably good job, and had only updated my resume on a whim, but it shows just how bad the age bias is in the computer HR field.
Hide your age, dye your hair, lose weight, and lie by omission on your resume. They'll lie to you about why they won't hire you, so feel free to "lie" to them about your age.
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I may give your method a try. I bet it works for a lot of people.
it just feels wrong to omit things that I did, spent years of my life doing it and I usually gained new skills (soft or tech) at each place.
I hear what you're saying, but its hard to pick which of your paragraphs and whole jobs must be thrown under the bus.
if the current round of interviews and onsites don't pan out, I will actually try your method. hack and chop things out, remove older jobs, I guess its worth a try.
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The problem is, despite employer protestations to the contrary, there are still too many job seekers chasing too few jobs. Otherwise, you wouldn't say things like "as you list more accomplishments, it's just more words to glaze over", and moan about the sheer quantity of resumes you have to wade through, you poor thing you. You speak of "right fit", which is an euphemistic way of saying you get a lot of people you think of as overqualified. You won't understand how good employers have it until you are gl
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your comments and observations are pretty much spot-on.
there is no worker shortage. its BS manufactured by the corps who want to -claim- that its hard for them to find local applicants and are always looking to bring imported and indentured workers into the country.
sometimes, a person is overqual'd and really will get bored of doing a job that is a few ticks below their seniority level. but the thing is: if they're an older worker, they'll be -much- more sincere and genuine and if they say they'll be ok w
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I read a lot of resumes. 3 pages for 35 years is fine...it's the 6+ pages for less than 10 years which get me.
Legal Issues are the likely culprit (Score:2)
I actually took my hardware with me and gave a demo of it if I was allowed. it never went well, for some reason. I think it put some employers off! they thought 'he's too hardware focused and this is a pure software job'. not realizing that there is over 10k lines of c/c++ code in my embedded project, not to mention the linux host side of things (the ip stack).
I've worked at firms where you can't bring any outside tech/inventions in - doing so puts the company at too much risk. So even in the interview, if you're not focused on solving their problems, hiring managers are not comfortable - they've been schooled by Legal to avoid these situations as bringing you onboard may be a career-limiting move.
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that's probably a valid point.
i've also seen the opposite. one place I was interviewing at, seemed to want to own my technology. we went back and forth many times on the contract and wording and could not agree on what would keep the stuff I 'invented' (hate using that word) mine and not theirs, even before I started the job!
and so, some places may not want you if you have built and own some tech; and on the other side, some places want you so that they can -take- your stuff.
there's all kinds of companies
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I work for a great company in the Detroit, Michigan area. We are and have been hiring people who are like you--people who build stuff and get things done. Innovative? Awesome. Went and build your own hardware project? Awesome. I hired a guy a couple years who did just that, because his hardware project impressed me so much.
Age doesn't deter us--we have plenty of people your age and older (and plenty younger too). I've been a developer with the company for a number of years and I
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Hmm, I had something similar happen to me at a recent interview. I was tagged as spending too much time doing IT, and trying for a position outside my skill-level: in short, I was pegged as a hardware monkey, who suddenly wanted to jump into programming (never mind my CS degree, and so on). It probably didn't help that I wanted to move into more serious work (framework development), as opposed to continuing to do web development (glass-ceiling effect...once you do web app work, people are loathe to let you
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'he's too hardware focused and this is a pure software job'. not realizing that there is over 10k lines of c/c++ code in my embedded project, not to mention the linux host side of things (the ip stack).
You're probably going to tell me to get off your lawn (I'm younger than your years of C experience), but anyways... My impression is that the kind of C code written for embedded systems is quite different from the C (or C++) code written for "full" applications. In embedded systems you write your own linked list, whereas in a modern non-embedded system you just #include <list> or something. Whereas the challenge in embedded systems is working with the limited feature set of the device, in non-embedded
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in my code, on the embedded side, I have 4k of ram, 30k of program flash and I think its 512 or 1k of eeprom.
linked lists? what's that? ;) not enough memory for pointers or speed to walk lists. nothing fancy (in data structs) is used, here.
funny you mention LL's though. I have never had to write one from scratch. not once. I'll grab tailqueue (or similar) from the unix header files and start from there or just plain use it. and I would use that stuff a lot on higher level app code, but again, I neve
Re:At least one (Score:4, Interesting)
This is mostly limited to publicly traded companies, but any company that emphasizes end of calendar year financials is open to this kind of manipulation. Spend less, make more, at least on paper, and you do better.
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Once the arbitrary deadline is passed, you can start doing the job hunt that you should have started in October.
You mean in November. That's after the US election and its uncertainty are over (for example, whether or not Obamacare was going to survive the next four years). The people hiring now have some idea of what the business environment is going to be like in the US.
As to end of calendar year financials, I think we don't need to look any further than taxes to find a reason there for hiring practices.I doubt many places are going to want to deal with employing someone for two weeks and dealing with all that pa
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I've spent time as a consultant for large and mid-sized companies (most of them publicly traded) and see pretty much the opposite of what you are describing.
I agree, I've never heard of "clutch and hold" and a google search only turns up automotive references for at least the first three pages of hits. While the opposite - "spend it or lose it" has been SOP for more decades than I've even been alive. FWIW, all of the first three pages of google's hits are variations on the theme of spending it now in order to justify future/continued budget allocations.
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I love my job, although the beginning of the year is always a bit stressful. We're always looking for people, just not people with you're attitude. ;-) No offense, just trying to point out something that's probably been obvious in a lot of your job interviews. A positive, upbeat person not only outperforms those with a negative outlook, they usually help those around them perform better as well. My one job is to make my boss happy, everything else are just means to that end. Look at it like that, be ok with
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Well, I've pretty much stopped looking.
Try China or India.
Re:At least one (Score:5, Funny)
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...gonna have to move you downstairs, m'kay?
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fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'red_stapler.h': No such stapler.
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INCLUDES+=/usr/include/milton
sorry, I left that part out.
try it now.
Re:At least one (Score:5, Interesting)
Contrary to what they teach you at the Ivy league schools, as the employees were treated like reasonable people, they treated the business owners the same way. Some left of their own accord, and the rest although terrified about being out in the cold, understood and agreed that this was the only course of action.
Fast forward a few months, and most of the people who left, are now back working for us, as things have turned around. The rest are all in well paying jobs, and have nothing but good things to say. If only more employers worked in this fashion.
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The place I'm working now is the one place that ever let me go on decent terms. When they had a spot for me they asked me back. Even though the new job kinda sucks (more customer service than tech), it's better (I guess) than taking an objectively better job some place that will screw me over whenever it suits them.
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if their plan was to downsize, then hire back at a discount, that's scummy.
if, otoh, they really did need to let go of people; and then, when times got better, they rehired the old people (many? or just you?) then that's kind of noble. and rare.
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They lost a huge chunk of their business (government contract), and since payroll was 90% of their costs they had to cut people. Several years later, I was unemployed again and using one of the people still there as a work reference, so they knew I was looking, and they invited me personally to take a new (different) position that they thought I'dt be able to do. It was actually a poor match for my skills, and I had to finagle my way into a different position that I'm qualified for, but it's a bird in the
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Same here. My current employer almost went belly up keeping everyone on without the work. Eventually when faced with either closing their doors, my boss took everyone in a room and explained it had gotten worse, asked who had options and if they were willing to exercise them, and then the remainder were let go with the crystal clear understanding that they did everything they could, that it was certainly not by bad performance on their part, and that should things turn around, they will be the first to get a call.
Contrary to what they teach you at the Ivy league schools, as the employees were treated like reasonable people, they treated the business owners the same way.
This,
In Australia its called voluntary redundancy. It's normally done earlier as employers have to pay out for redundancy. Good employers tend to use this before choosing redundancies.
Bad employers try to find reasons to fire people... then get dragged over the coals by Fair Work Australia. Beyond that, an employer who treats their staff well will find that staff will do the same for their employer, even to the point of taking a voluntary pay cut which is something I saw happen during the GFC (those s
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an employer who treats their staff well will find that staff will do the same for their employer
where is this magical land you speak of? tell me. tell me!
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an employer who treats their staff well will find that staff will do the same for their employer
where is this magical land you speak of? tell me. tell me!
Australian Public Service?
Joking,
Employers like this are typically either mining giants (who can afford all the perks) or specialised SME's in my neck of the woods. When competing for the best talent in any professional service (IT, Engineering, Accounting) your workplace has to be competitive or you'll end up with the people they reject. It depends on company policy rather than the type or location of the company.
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where is this magical land you speak of?
Follow the sound of thunder.
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Serious question: what's the meme where people just write "this." as the first paragraph of a reply? I can't make sense of it.
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"...yeah, if you're not into the whole brevity thing"
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Thanks.
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In IT, coworkers are not your friends, and they will not hesitate to turn on someone if it comes to getting an atta-boy from a manager, much less raises/promotions.
I feel true pity for you for the doucebags that you've had to work with.
I also feel pity for the rest of the people that have to work with you.
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Re:Fake jobs (Score:4, Informative)
'Tis purposeful. Apparently, a number of companies have found a way to play fast and loose with H1Bs. See, in order to make things legal, they need to post the job publicly, so that the natives have a chance before the foreigners get to apply. Since the companies in question are already using the possibility of a green card as leverage over the foreigner (to decrease their potential salaries / wages), the hiring of the foreigner is much preferred in the company's eyes.
But how do you dissuade, or otherwise disqualify, the natives from applying / getting the job? According to the rules, the salary has to meet certain criteria (somewhere within the average of the industry), so purely low-balling the natives won't work. Instead, these companies realized that they can use the qualifications / criteria for the job itself to get around the requirements: they hand the foreign applicant a disc with proprietary apps (costing, potentially, tends of thousands of dollars to buy, possibly even demo), and tell them to familiarize themselves with the apps. Then when the time comes to apply for the job, they can truthfully say that they have used these special apps before, and thus are more qualified for the job than the native. In other words, it would cost the native tends of thousands of dollars to buy these special apps, ostensibly provided for free to foreigners, in order to gain experience with them, in order to qualify for this job; obviously, a native will not do this, as the job itself is probably not well-paying enough to cover these capital costs.
Let it be known that I have no problems with foreigners competing for native jobs. I do, however, have a problem with uneven playing fields; fighting dirty befouls the entire industry, and lays the foundation for terrible gains. Had I my way, the H1B caps would be abolished, and their wages no different from that of the natives.
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h1b should be abolished until our unemployment rate is below 5%, which is the number considered to be 'full employment'.
there are too many locals (pick any country, this isn't a US centric thing) that need jobs. its pretty rotton to import people when those who grew up locally, have paid their dues (many times over) and simply want society to give back what it promised, are being stepped over for cheaper and more indentured labor.
I do believing in helping 'the world' but not at the expense of the locals.
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Of course, my company is too cheap to post on any board that is not free, and I don't think mid-level developers cruise craigslist. I sure don't when I am looking.
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We have posted 6-figure engineering positions on Craigslist in the past... Better results than Monster...
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There is, supposedly, a shortage / gap of mid-level developers.
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Well, in that case I am willing to take a high level developer and pay them mid level wages.
Well, doh! (Score:4, Insightful)
The dot com bust hit the IT sectory specifically, and followed a huge bubble in which tons of people were found in unnecessary jobs fueled by the gush of easy start-up money.
How can you even compare.
Depends on the Area (Score:3)
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See my post here: http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3384553&cid=42600051 [slashdot.org]
We're looking for people in the local area. No redirects, false postings, etc. Livonia, MI. Not a recruiter--I work at the company and I know we have open positions.
Isn't this to be expected? (Score:5, Insightful)
The dot-com burst was a tech sector bubble.
The current burst is a finance sector bubble.
How's that finance job market recovery going?
Re:Isn't this to be expected? (Score:4, Funny)
Great. They just announced another round of executive bonuses.
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Of course, I'm probably just feeding an antisemitic troll that has a problem with a Jewish Senator, but I wanted to post the link since I looked it up and it is interesting to see where some Senators were born.
Every profession gets a turn to eat Ramen (Score:2)
"Will calculate derivative interest for food"
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In the financial software industry. We hire both software developers and financial operational support and have job openings for both. For every 50 support resumes we get, less than a handful of Java developer applies. There is a huge demand for Java developers in Chicago. I would assume the same applies to other parts of the US.
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Perhaps I should move to Chicago. But then I'd be surrounded by Americans...
You are forgetting bubble 2.0 (Score:2)
Although the finance sector bubble may have burst (well for many companies it was a very soft kind of bursting) we now have a new Web 2.0 bubble in which companies without a business model (i.e. Instagram) are suddenly worth _lots_ of money.
So in a few years/months (who knows) this new web 2.0 bubble will burst, and just like we had lots of useless unemployed untalented web designers after that, we'll have lots of useless unemployed app designers then.
Important to be flexible (Score:4, Interesting)
On hopes that people have found other jobs rather than being forced to exist on unemployment until someone gives them back what is essentially their old job. That is what recovery is. People finding work and the economy moving forward. I think it would be better if we educated ourselves for a flexible work load rather than a specific and narrow trade. That is why so many PhD students have trouble finding positions.
need more apprenticeships that why PHD's can get (Score:2)
need more apprenticeships that why PHD's can get jobs as they have big skills gaps and to much school.
Prediction: Bye-bye "re-shoring" (Score:5, Interesting)
Employment in high tech is cyclical - boom to bust, followed by boom again. It seems to happen roughly every 10 years (1991, 2001, 2009 come to mind, but there was another boom around 1980). When employment booms, there's a shortage of skilled engineers and programmers, so companies look to off-shore. Meanwhile, the number of CS students in the US skyrockets. Then those students graduate, and not long after, the industry tanks, the job market softens, and there's a local surplus of skilled workers who are suddenly more affordable vis-a-vis off-shore workers. Seeing the surplus of skilled on-shore workers, companies start "re-shoring" -- bringing jobs back to the US. But lots of unemployed engineers and programmers go on to other things and, seeing so many engineers and programmers out of work, CS enrollments plummet. When the next boom hits, there's a shortage of workers again and the cycle continues.
Kim Dot-com Bubble? (Score:4, Funny)
Can't get started (Score:3, Funny)
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what worked for me (decades ago) was to go to a co-op school where you spend some of your college time working at a real company. often doing nothing or nothing much (you are a tax wrote-off, mostly; realize that but be ok with it).
but it gets you work experience on your resume! I think that really helped me out.
if you are not yet in school, DO consider one of the co-op schools. I was at northeastern (boston area) and even with zero work experience, they were able to find some company to take you on and
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"I've got A+, Network+ and MCP and it's still not enough to get the first job in IT? What gives?"
"I have a BS from SUNY Cum Laude in CS and cant get started? What Gives. Back to mowing lawns !"
What gives is this, I have oh a million tied up in equipment that I want to make a network out of, one kid has his own tools and can start right now, the other kid has one of these degree's. I start asking a few questions and quickly learn the kid with NO school has done this many times before, is quite serious and
Local differences (Score:2)
In California the developer job market was really rough after the dot-com crash. For family reasons it was not practical to move out of state. I even started asking for minimum wage, but no takers*. It was brutal. I ran into some sleazebags who wanted me to lie, cheat, and steal for $. Sleazebags sure know how to find the desperate.
Between that and the offshoring trend, I started looking for an entire new field to go into. I considered 3D animated graphics for presentation to judges and juries in court case
Re:Local differences (Score:5, Interesting)
I went for an interview (really well known company, everyone wants to work there, or so they think) and when they told me that the job was paying about half of what I made 10 yrs ago (!!), I did not balk. it would have covered the rent, at least, and employment is honorable even if its way below your last several jobs' rates.
they would have no part of me, though. too old, way too overqualified (they said so) and they didn't want to risk taking me on. I did not (at all!) act above-the-job. I honestly would have been fine working there, even for that rate. maybe it would lead to other things or I could establish myself in that company. but no, they never even called back to give closure. (this company is known to be rude to prospective employees, and people still put up with it, too).
employers, please don't turn down those who are 'overqualified' in a tough market. get a feeling for whether they'll stay or jump; but don't just -assume- they'll jump. those who have been out of work would really appreciate the chance and they'd likely be loyal and glad to have the chance to come aboard. if they're older, they'll likely be more stable, too, and not be a job-hopper. believe me, the job-hopping days ended 10 yrs ago or even more.
the tough part is staying positive when you see the ugliness and greed that companies have, when they know its an employer's market. its soul crushing to see the lack of humanity and lack of compassion. it was a learning experience for me and I'm going to try never to do that to anyone, if I'm on the other side of the interview table.
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I've been in situations like this, though I've gotten the job(s). The employer has a decent position but at below market rates - but with promises of improvement "after 6 months', "when the company is doing better", "before we hire someone else".
Invariably, it's all been lies just to get a cheap employee (even when it's in writing - at will means at will, and they'll change the terms of the agreement out from underneath you).
Older, more experienced workers have the benefit of being able to jump ship to anot
What "overqualified" really means.. (Score:3)
It has been my observation that "overqualified" means something quite specific.
"Overqualified" means that they know the working conditions are poor, and that you have enough experience to pretty much find another job the minute they start pushing the boundaries of employment to "unreasonable" limits (and they are expecting to). "Overqualified" means you won't put up with a lot of 60-hour work weeks salaried without overtime, you'll actually expect to be able to take sick leave and vacation time (and will c
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. What's not clear, though, is how many unemployed techies aren't being counted because they've abandoned job searches.
How about phrasing the statement this way:
What's not clear, though, is how many unemployed techies aren't being counted because they've abandoned available jobs due to "unfavorable" work conditions.
I have been a victim so to speak. You see, I got a job but the employer wanted me to get "up-to-date" certification at my cost, at my time and then commit to working 5 days a week and being on-call at least one weekend every 6 weeks for the first year, then on-call for one of the weekends in two months.
Needless
Re:Is the job market real? (Score:5, Insightful)
I have been a victim so to speak. You see, I got a job but the employer wanted me to get "up-to-date" certification at my cost, at my time and then commit to working 5 days a week and being on-call at least one weekend every 6 weeks for the first year, then on-call for one of the weekends in two months.
Needless to say, I declined the offer....still looking.
This may have been sarcasm, and if so, a big whoosh to me, but if you seriously declined a job offer because they wanted you to get some certifications and be on call for 9 weekends per year, you evidently don't really need a job.
Re:Is the job market real? (Score:5, Insightful)
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as long as they don't force you to use windows 8...
ok, I'm half kidding. I'd even tolerate win8 if there was a salary in it ;)
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You need to bring your own computer to work on.
Gadget allowances rock.
In my last job I bought an A$1800 Asus laptop, rented that back to the company for A$125 a month, over 24 months that's $3000 but that's really what less than what the company saved by me providing my own laptop (insurance et al.) plus I picked my own specs.
Above this I also received a A$500 per year allowance for work related gadgets, so tablets, phones and so forth.
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How about feeding your kids and supporting your family? Do you care more about your ego than putting in ocassional extra help as required? I hope he does not have a family. If the grandparent has been out of work for 6 months (common today) and he knowingly turned it down because he would have to work one saturday sometime I bet any wife with common sense would leave him.
My exgf is a chief who works 80 hours a week. Ask any business owner how many hours he or she works? ALOT! I have worked 2 jobs in
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Your employer owes you jack shit. They own the job and requirements. It is not 1999 anymore and if requiring you to pitch in every othermonth and keeping current on your skillset where you do not live in poverty sounds pretty darn reasonable to me. Many who work 70 hours a week make less than 30k a year! Be greateful you have a job?
In a practical sense, you're quite right. But statements like that make me think that perhaps union membership for IT people is not such a bad idea.
Re:Is the job market real? (Score:5, Informative)
I have been a victim so to speak. You see, I got a job but the employer wanted me to get "up-to-date" certification at my cost, at my time and then commit to working 5 days a week and being on-call at least one weekend every 6 weeks for the first year, then on-call for one of the weekends in two months.
That actually seems pretty reasonable to me; the only point I'd negotiate on would be the certifications at my cost relative to my starting wage and/or signing bonus.
Surely the 5 days a week, and being on call one weekend in 6 wasn't the deal breaker? Doctors deal with the same reality... people don't get sick only from 9 to 5, and computers are no more accomodating. Things break on weekends.
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Well, I'm pretty sure the statistics are in the "white lie, black lie, statistics" category. Compare these:
Unemployment rate [bls.gov] and Employment-population rate [bls.gov]
Of course a little bit of that can be demographic changes but for the most part it's "hidden" unemployment in people studying, giving up, getting on some kind of benefits - no more of the population is actually employed today than back in late 2009. In the EU they've already started to run out of smoke and mirrors to cover up their unemployment and debt p
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I was called in for an "agency interview" last week. That didn't go so well but they said they'd pass my details onto their other consultants.
A couple of days later, I see a posting on a job board for "5 positions available" from the same company, matching my skillset. No phone call - so yes, phantom job postings would seem to exist and I won't waste my time with that agency again in a hurry.
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Here is where I take some offense with the article and the comparisons to 2000/2001. I watched the bubble burst here in the states and then in Europe, and let me tell you during the peak of the dotcom bubble like 50% of folks had any real technical chops. The bandwagon jumping was ferocious, even at good companies.
Just putting it out there ...
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It's not doing fantastic (5 years in) and I'll be able to retire in a few months if I choose to. I'm 28.
What the hell definition of "fantastic" are you using??
Re:"techies" unemployed? Maybe those over 50... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm over 50 (just barely).
the agism (in the sf bay area) is visible and intense. my healthcare went up A LOT on my 50'th birthday and I have private HI since I'm not employed now and wasn't when I was 50, either.
companies have to pay higher rates for older employees (I'm pretty sure). they also have more legal hurdles to jump thru when they fire you. in general, they don't like older guys. lots of reasons, with very few of them actually good reasons.
fwiw, if you are in the bay area and approach mid 30's, start thinking about an 'exit strategy'. by mid 40's you should have some idea or plan. I did not and I'm paying the price for my lack of forethought (I really didn't believe this, back when I was still young).
maybe other areas of the country are more accepting of us older guys, but the bay area IS NOT! trust me. yes, there are companies that have grey-hairs there but they are usually the minority and very few of them feel totally secure in their jobs, if you ask them and if they answer honestly.
its a shame. some cultures in the world respect and honor age, experience and wisdom. the bay area, fwiw, is NOT one of them ;(
(I wish I could speak one of the asian languages or be able to move there; I am told that the eastern part of the world still DOES honor and respect age and experience.)
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You don't have to speak an asian language to be valuable. If you are interested in it, you can make a good living in Hong Kong or China or India. There are a lot of opportunities for people who understand technology and are native English speakers. You can bridge the gap between customers and engineers who speak limited English. You may not make good bay area wages depending on where you go, but you'll make excellent for local cost of living wages.
Your advice is great for the 20-30 somethings.
If you're pushing 50, likely you're not going to have that many options to move - you are probably married w/ kids, have too many friends you'd lose, or are to set in your ways to learn a new language and culture without a lot of frustration/loneliness.
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The U.S. federal government is pretty good in this regard. I'm sure the people deciding whom to hire have certain assumptions about how technical ability changes with age. But they generally don't think about things like a candidate's health insurance costing more.
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In my experience, the SF Bay Area also has a bit of an IT reputation of people getting a set of skills, becoming a major prat of a primadona, and then sitting on their laurels expecting to be paid $dollars to do just the bare minimum while trumping up their actual accomplishments into epic deeds of old as fodder for their perpetual job applications. It's very "yes, I touched one of those before" friendly and almost openly hostile towards people who know their topics of expertise backwards and forwards: as l
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This is why I've always been very opposed to all the macho "work till you drop" garbage that often accompanies tech jobs. If you give up your entire life to the job, how can you get a business going on the side?
If you can't get a business going on the side, how do you eat when you are too old to be employed by a tech company?
When you are young and single, it doesn't seem like such a big deal. Since you are always at work, you don't have time to spend your money and it just stacks up in your bank account.
Re:"techies" unemployed? Maybe those over 50... (Score:4, Funny)
When you say "left school" are you talking about high school?
He's talking about troll school and has been at slashdot ever since...
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I am about to abandon job search.
I have an excellent academic profile, I have successfully created my own business, and I cannot get a job because I want to switch to a technology where I don't have 2 years of experience.
I have applied for many graduate jobs as well as junior ones but still nothing.
Well, I don't need the money, so I will be programming some open source which I like...
But, if you program open source projects for two years, that will give you the resume-worthy experience you need to get a tech job. But, by then, you'll probably have your own tech business and won't need to look for a job anywhere else.
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Yeah, we need another B*sh war stimulus and B*sh financial bubble.
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Yeah, but he's doing it HIS OWN WAY. He's NOT doing it the REPUBLICAN WAY. And that is pissing off most of the Republicans. OTOH, they need that.