Modest Proposal For Stopping Hackers: Get Them Girlfriends 566
kierny writes "Hackers/crackers who get arrested are typically male and young adults — if not minors. Why is that? According to research by online psychology expert Grainne Kirwan, it's because the typical hacker 'ages out' once they get a girlfriend, job, kids, and other responsibilities that make it difficult to maintain their hacking/cracking/hacktivist lifecycle. Could that finding offer a way to help keep more young hacking enthusiasts out of jail?"
obligatory reference (Score:3, Funny)
Re:obligatory reference (Score:5, Funny)
You have put out almost nothing but shitty, proprietary crap for over a decade now. Your music CDs install rootkits on computers. You remove advertised features from the PS3. You sue people who have committed no crime just to shut them up. In response, you've been under relentless assault from hackers.
This will continue until you change your ways, or you get us girlfriends. Either way, we're cool.
-Anonymous
Re:obligatory reference (Score:5, Insightful)
After what you describe Sony as:
put out almost nothing but shitty, proprietary crap for over a decade
music CDs install rootkits on computers
sue people who have committed no crime just to shut them up
You still trust the quality of girlfriend(s) that Sony might get for you?
Re:obligatory reference (Score:5, Funny)
You'll be hoping for a root [australiandictionary.net] kit but you'll just get viruses.
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I dated a robot
My girlfriend is a Hacker and looks like Angelina Jolie
Pics or it didn't happen !!
Wow (Score:5, Insightful)
This is as retarded as the last story. Timothy must be taking his stupid pills today.
Re:Wow (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)
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That happened to me, then I left her and wound up with a girl who's willing to put up with my spending most of my free time in the basement cuddling with my server rack.
Re:Wow (Score:5, Funny)
So you went back to your mom?
Re:Wow (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wow (Score:4, Funny)
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drop Tea
get No Tea
I enjoyed the mud too much and died :(
Re:Wow (Score:5, Interesting)
So, here's the question:
Did your girlfriend stop you hacking, or did something else stop your hacking and the increased social interaction landed you the girlfriend?
Re:Wow (Score:5, Interesting)
Did your girlfriend stop you hacking, or did something else stop your hacking and the increased social interaction landed you the girlfriend?
In my case, she didn't do anything specific to stop my hacking, beyond existing. We have only a finite amount of time. Given the choice between hacking (it was called "cracking" back then, but whatever) or fucking a hot girl, I chose fucking.
But isn't it just that way with us? The little head always overriding the big one?
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Worked for me too. Stopped pirating software as well (as in cracking it). The other key was getting a day job where my disposable income made cracking/trading software a silly pastime, and all the expensive software I like to play with I already have at work (like CAD software). Note to FBI - I was a minor at the time and the statute of limitations should be way past by now. Also please don't kill me.
Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems to be a very slow news day. Isn't that when someone posts an inflammatory article about Obamacare, AGW or evolution?
Why doesn't Timothy go all the way and merge this with the next inevitable Raspberry Pi article?
Re:Wow (Score:4, Funny)
Raspberry Pi used to mine BitCoins to fight AGW
That's the next article I'm looking for.
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They don't have girlfriends, they have hoes.
The Girlfriend(tm) (Score:5, Funny)
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Solve problems? Ha! The Girlfriend (especially when upgraded to The Wife) creates tons MORE problems which is why males no longer have time for more fun activities like gaming and hacking. Too busy installing cabinets or working to pay off the bills.
So far I have yet to meet any happily married males (or females for that matter). Even the ones who CLAIM to be happy fill their conversations with backstabbing comments about their spouse. Who needs that?
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Re:The Girlfriend(tm) (Score:5, Insightful)
or..could you be attracting maladjusted people as friends?
Re:The Girlfriend(tm) (Score:5)
you know what, that was needlessly rude of me. I take it back, sorry man. (I've been on /. too long)
Re:The Girlfriend(tm) (Score:4, Insightful)
What? My fellow coworkers/engineers? They ALL tell me tales about the "stupid thing" their husbands or wives did last weekend or last month. They claim to be happily married, but certainly don't sound it.
Re:The Girlfriend(tm) (Score:5, Insightful)
Are they stupid thing as in funny anecdotes, or stupid things as in making people angry?
I do the occasional stupid thing, and I'm sure my wife tells people about them. But no different then my friends telling the stores of the time my BBQ burst into flames.
I know a lot of happily married men. The trick? marry someone you can do thing with without becoming annoyed.
Of course, there are people who aren't happy, but they need to get out of the relationship. Unless kids are involved. The they need to suck it up* and create a happy and stable home life.
* Meaning general annoyances. Clearly if abuse is going on, they need to get themselves and their kids out of that situation.
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"there are people who aren't happy, but they need to get out of the relationship. Unless kids are involved. The they need to suck it up* and create a happy and stable home life."
The problem is you can't force or fake happiness. And marital stress always devolves onto the kids as stress that the kids have no outlet for. If your marriage is unhappy, you can bet it's making your kids unhappy, even if they claim otherwise (kids will say what they think pleases the parent, not what the kid actually feels).
Someti
Re:The Girlfriend(tm) (Score:4, Insightful)
They ALL tell me tales about the "stupid thing" their husbands or wives did last weekend or last month. They claim to be happily married, but certainly don't sound it.
Think for a moment about what type of story is more interesting to tell.
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You don't have the whole picture, so you shouldn't judge.
People like the Gottmans (John and Julie), Helen Fisher, etc. have a much better idea of things, because they've been studying love and relationships for decades.
I've only read a couple of their books and seen some of their talks. But I can give you the summary: The mark of a good relationship is not in never saying anything bad about each other, nor even in the number of bad things said - it is in the relation between the number of good and the numbe
Re:The Girlfriend(tm) (Score:4, Interesting)
Just because my partner tolerates all the stupid shit I do, and I tolerate hers, does not automagically make us happy. It just means we're complacent. I see the traditional long-term monogamous relationship as a bizarre vestigial custom. We don't know why we do it, we just do. Social pressures and all... Yet there are some of us who might have grander aspirations than breeding and feeding.
Sure, relationship issues can be overcome, just like any other problems in life. The real question is thus: what would you rather spend your life doing ? Tiptoeing around your partner's family-of-origin-rooted insecurities, or mastering the fine art of craft brewing ? There are only so many days in a life, and if someone prefers not to spend them in emotionally-charged conundrums, I see nothing wrong with that choice.
Re:The Girlfriend(tm) (Score:5, Insightful)
If you're constantly tiptoeing around then you're with the wrong person. I've been married for many years and am quite happy. Am I happy 100% of the time? No, but that's unreasonable to expect. I would say I'm happy 90% of the time though and I do no tiptoeing. My wife and I enjoy playing the same video games (WoW, galaga, mario bros, etc), eating mostly the same food, and find the same type of humor funny. We have a few different interests as well (she likes playing music and I enjoy programming for example) and when we want to do something the other doesn't we go do what we want. When we have an issue with each other we address it and move on. I think a big problem with a lot of couples is lack of communication and being honest about their feelings with each other. If more couples would actually address their issues like adults instead of keeping them inside more relationships would work out. If you can't openly talk to your partner about how you feel then the relationship was doomed from the start.
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You don't realize how judgmental your attitude comments come across, Ironically your motivation for speaking are that you probably wrongly judged.
The thing is that different people are different. That's one of the oldest things in the book. He isn't wrong, in fact he's quite right. Living together means making concessions, that's inevitable, there's probably a ton of things in your wife that upsets you but you have chosen to tolerate. But different people tolerate different things for different stretches of
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I see the traditional long-term monogamous relationship as a bizarre vestigial custom.
A monogamous relationship is a natural result of being in love with another person. Not infatuation, not lust, but sincerely in love. I think for most ./'s, despite what they may say, really want that.
Whether or not that monogamous relationship also has non-standard sexual practices, like say, swingers is another story. In the end though, you are still with each other.
How long that lasts varies of course, but I do know people that by all appearances have been in love for decades.
Re:The Girlfriend(tm) (Score:5, Interesting)
And you are right, marriage - and especially children - creates a lot of problems to deal with. So I can see how this would stop hacking. On the other hand, good luck with that. You are suggesting going up to a girl and saying, "Hey, you're pretty cute. How would you like to date an anti-social computer geek that has learned to relate to women through 4chan?"
Re:The Girlfriend(tm) (Score:5, Interesting)
I read one of those "human interest" interviews once with some 100-year-old couple that had been married for about a millenium. They asked the couple if they had ever considered divorce.
The couple replied "Divorce? Never! Murder, sure, but never divorce." :-)
Re:The Girlfriend(tm) (Score:5, Insightful)
I've been married to my wife for 22 years. I am very happy.
I suggest living with someone for a year, then if you get married don't have kids for about 7 years.
Any time during that period you find your self excessively complaining about your spouse,I recommend that you calmly end the relationship. You aren't happy, and you aren't doing anyone any favors by being miserable.
I hate the stupid pop culture idea that marriage is supposed to be misery and pain. IT's a crock. I blame dumb ass shows like "Everyone loves Raymond", "Home improvement", etc...
Why do any of those men stay with the horribly screeching wives?
And why do those women stay with horribly insensitive, and often abusive, men?
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I hate the stupid pop culture idea that marriage is supposed to be misery and pain. IT's a crock. I blame dumb ass shows like "Everyone loves Raymond", "Home improvement", etc...
Why do any of those men stay with the horribly screeching wives?
And why do those women stay with horribly insensitive, and often abusive, men?
And woe to those that use popular media as a guide to how one should live their life.
I seem to recall reading a book that claimed a lot of depression and personal happiness issues stem from people comparing their lives to fiction. They watch movies with extraordinary people having extraordinary adventures and wish their lives weren't so boring. They watch exceptionally funny television shows and wish they can be so witty. They watch attractive people with perfect bodies in porn and wish they had perfect bod
Re:The Girlfriend(tm) (Score:5, Insightful)
I suggest living with someone for a year, then if you get married don't have kids for about 7 years.
By which time she's infertile.
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Our population continues to increase regardless of whether people are forming "sustainable families". Not having those stable families creates additional, serious societal problems on top.
Re:The Girlfriend(tm) (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is that most people who are happily married aren't very vocal about it. BUT, those that aren't happy, or are divorced, are VERY vocal.
For example: I have been happily married for 5 years now, and we dated for 5 before that step. I get my wife flowers every week, because she puts up with me peeing on the toilet seat, breaking things to see how they work, and generally bitching when I've had a bad day.
No one knows. Well, I've only told you folks about it - my family knows, but that's because they come over to my house.
My supervisor has been divorced for nine years, and complains every day. Let me repeat - N...I...N...E......Y...E...A...R...S... and still complains every day. Who is the better model? Me. Who do people know more about? Her.
It's simple logic - more exposure = more proof, right?
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Not only crime, but worse things as well. My understanding is that in China, there are roughly 160 million "missing" girls right now, relative to the expected male/female distribution. We'd better find something for those 160 million boys to do, and soon, or they're going to become a huge problem for their own country, their own government, and possibly the rest of the world. Hacking and phishing activities are pretty far down the list of concerns.
The increasing availability of cheap, portable ultrasound
Agreed (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Agreed (Score:5, Funny)
For a teenager, a couple of minutes is stretching it a bit.
Re:Agreed (Score:5, Interesting)
Taking care of peoples basic needs would stop a lot of bad behavior. Prostitution is negatively correlated with rape. Heroin maintenance programs reduce the damage caused by drug seeking addicts. A guaranteed basic income [spiegel.de] can dramatically reduce the problems associated with poverty.
Too bad our society cares more about appearing "tough on crime" than effective solutions to our problems.
Re:Agreed (Score:5, Insightful)
You're right about needs, but money is not a need, because it's an abstract concept. Quality of living is a need. The concept of poverty, in a developed world, is a very contrived and nonsensical artifact of capitalism. We have enough resources to feed, house, clothe and entertain the whole world several times over, yet our societal systems create false scarcity as the hypothetical carrot-on-a-stick to keep people enslaved and working.
It doesn't matter how much money is being thrown around, or how big the numbers grow, if someone isn't pulling their weight, they will cause a shortage somewhere else. The illusion of money only takes our eyes off the real issue of distributing resources. After all, why associate with millions of other people if we only seek to break them down and take what's theirs ? Building, not pillaging, should be the goal of any society. Wealth means nothing if you spend every waking moment in misery and frustration.
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> You're right about needs, but money is not a need, because it's an abstract concept.
While I partially agree with you, you are missing some key concepts.
Please show me how to live in the western world without money. Because without it you are going to have a crappy life especially when you get sick.
While Money indeed is mutli-dimensional, it is significantly more then "just an abstract concept"
The three levels of money are:
- Money is a token
- Money represents time & experience
- Money is an exchange
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I don't agree with your thesis. I had a lot of fun with technology when I was a kid. Worse is the feeling I get that tells me Slashdot is one of the few "safe places" where I may actually get someone else to agree with me instead of just saying "hu hu hu sex is fun, let's make stupid jokes about it."
signed,
well adjusted 30-something male, job, kids, all the normal things.
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Indeed. Copular interactions are fun, but the frustration of trying to figure out the opposite (or in some cases same) sex, coupled with the pain of breakups, etc.
Computers were safer and more fun...
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Re:Agreed (Score:4, Funny)
Run a cutting edge distro of Linux and do a blind apt-get upgrade or similar every 28 days and they're about the same.
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Computers were safer and more fun...
Run a cutting edge distro of Linux and do a blind apt-get upgrade or similar every 28 days and they're about the same.
Hey, now leave Arch Linux out of this!
Re:Agreed (Score:5, Funny)
A girlfriend is a lot more fun than a computer, at that age anyway.
Not really. You can only hack a girlfriend once, and even then there are some associated difficulties (as Hans Reiser has found out).
Bill Murray was so close... (Score:2)
This is not a new idea... (Score:3, Informative)
It's All Very Simple (Score:3)
If someone who has no life is bothering you, you give them one so they have no time to bother you.
guess he author doesn't remember being that age... (Score:2)
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The real issue here is that we are assuming that hacking is a bad activity and that older hackers should be steering wayward youth toward the conservative, endorsed-by-corporations lifestyle.
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If you are under 20 mod parent down.
If you are over 20 mod parent up.
Or legalize prostitution (Score:5, Funny)
That's my takeaway from this.
Then again that's my takeaway from most discussions.
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I don't think that would work.
That Significant Others tend to have a strong calming effect on a person and his or her lifestyle is well-known, and this proposal is really just another application of that. But the effect comes from having a strong, stable, intimate social connection and the resulting feelings of responsibility. People don't generally use prostitutes for social connection, and so legalization wouldn't have that effect.
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We're talking teen-agers here. Emotional connection is probably not as big a factor as looks. Subsidize their prostitutes and I guarantee the hacking will decline.
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Excuse me (Score:4, Funny)
A modest proposal?
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Yeah you know, like eating babies.
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A modest proposal?
If the reference passed you by, Google it.
And Girls? (Score:2, Insightful)
That's right... and when it comes to girl hackers, simply unstoppable :).
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Considering the fairly clear historical linkage between an overpopulation of young men and war, there are many who believe that China and India may well suffer violent social upheaval and a much higher chance of war. Here's hoping it doesn't involve nuclear weapons.
(The irony of producing too many males really starts when one considers that (generalizing terribly) women are probably better adapted for living in the modern world.)
HEY! Not cool. (Score:4, Interesting)
First, implying that this is only a problem for men is stupid. Women without responsibilities get into trouble too, often with consequences far beyond simple criminal mischief. Secondly, getting saddled with a relationshp does decrease the tendancy towards crime -- but then so does getting a car, a job, a house, etc. It'd be more accurate to say that criminals commit crime because they have less to lose.
That's a terribly obvious thing to say, and it also provides no insight into what to do to achieve it. Should we institute arranged marriages? A chicken in every pot, and a car in every garage? Should we force employers to hire people with a criminal record? Please, do tell. I'm all ears.
Re:HEY! Not cool. (Score:4, Interesting)
It'd be more accurate to say that criminals commit crime because they have less to lose.
Except the biggest criminals are the wealthiest. I did the math a while back, and the wealth lost in the 2008 financial crisis exceeds that of *all property crime put together by several orders of magnitude*.
If you are concerned about crime, focus at the top. Politicians and CEOs do far more harm to this country than drug addicts and gang bangers.
Re:HEY! Not cool. (Score:5, Insightful)
Economic understanding fail. A $50k minimum wage will just end up with $50k having the same buying power that $8 an hour has today. Currency only has value determined by scarcity and trust, even if you outlaw the rich earning more than $70k, you will still devalue the currency and luxuries will be exchanged directly instead of with the state currency as a pathway.
No, you fail to understand. The US GDP is ~$15 trillion, and there are ~100m working adults. That's $150k each. If you set the minimum wage to $50k, the wealthier people will still make 4-5 times as much as the poor, rather than the 100x to 1000x more that they make now. Now, you could argue that there would be a productivity drop, and you'd probably be right, but my point here isn't about exact figures, but rather that we live in a society that, if equitable, could provide a pretty good standard of living to all, rather than a shitty standard of living for most and a ridiculous standard for a select lucky few.
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the grown-ups call this "communism" and it has proved to be a failure in many parts of the world. Even chinese figured out the state cannot just provide all to the masses, you've got to mix in the greedy capitalism part to get people to work for what they want.
Sure seems to work in Sweden, Norway, Finland, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Germany, etc. Hell, even the US has a minimum wage -- its just not enough to live on. Also funny that you mention communism, since it's a system advocated by Thomas Paine [wikipedia.org], one of the founding fathers of libertarianism.
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Discouraging/dumb title (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Discouraging/dumb title (Score:4, Insightful)
Most men are intimidated by smart women, and so most women who are smart try to conceal it.
This doesn't apply to you because you say you're gay (and I assume other women wouldn't be intimidated by smart women), but those other women you're talking about are doing it wrong. You don't hide who you are, especially not your virtues, such as intelligence, in order to make a relationship last for longer. That only makes it harder to break up when you find out your partner has that inferiority complex. What intelligent woman wants to be in a relationship with a guy who needs to feel superior to her?
When I meet a new girl, I tend to go out of my way to put all my nerdiness out there. More often than not (much more often than not), there's no second date. I consider that a benefit. I'm not going to change who I am to fit a woman's model of what I should be like, so if she doesn't want to date a nerd, I don't want to date her. I don't want to suffer through a painful breakup later when she finally figures out who I really am and the personality I was hiding. Those relationships that did last were significantly more meaningful as a result, and I retained a friendship with a few exes because I truly enjoyed their company and personality. "We should still be friends" isn't an insult to me, and if I had I enjoyed their company while we were dating, I'm glad to take them up on that offer when they make it seriously.
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I have this odd feeling that she has no particular desire to attract men of any kind.
Good luck... (Score:3, Insightful)
This can also make things worse (Score:2)
The other problem is that settling down too fast causes the person committing to woman to virtually freeze their education and career.
Outdated information (Score:5, Insightful)
Back in the early days, hackers were young hobbyists.
The people who are most dangerous now are simply criminals who've learned to operate computers.
Teenage and young adult hacking is part of the learning process and should be encouraged as part of the growth process. Most of those people will go on to futures in computer science.
The criminals will not.
You can use this for evil, too (Score:3)
Getting "a life" damages young mens' productivity/creativity/drive. Film at 11.
You could use life against "hackers" (that word in the bad sense) but could also use it against anyone else who is doing things you don't happen to like, too. Politically active for the wrong party? Get 'em a girlfriend. Work for a competitor? Here, have a wife. And if those things don't work, b&e their houses and puncture their condoms for some Surprise Baby Drama.
Not for everyone (Score:2)
I know a few people who are really skilled technically, but choose that they want nothing to do with a relationship. Male and Female both. These people would have more fun trying to social the outreach program rather than taking it seriously.
No wonder China has those birth policies! (Score:3)
It all makes sense now! They're prepping for a massive cyber-war in the mid 21st century!
Novel approach! (Score:4, Funny)
I just wanted to congratulate TFA's authors for this incredibly novel approach to finding a girlfriend - drafting all of society into a plan to find them dates. Ingenious!
A bit desperate perhaps, but still... genius!
And The Source? (Score:3)
And from where exactly do they propose we get these girlfriends for the crackers? If we accept the supposition that these are all a bunch of young persistently-single men, then clearly these men are either a) not putting in the effort / participating in activities conducive to getting a mate, or b) insufficiently desirable to any potential mate met thus far.
The common thread in both cases - there is no woman (also, why all the heteronormativity?) interested in him. So do they propose that we kidnap some women from the street and tell them that they're taking one for the team?
Women are people too. Just because it would solve your problem if a woman were to screw this guy, doesn't create an obligation for any particular woman to screw him. I guess you could hire a bunch of escorts, but is it really worth the cost of a decent hooker providing a "girlfriend experience" for long enough to fool the guy into thinking he actually has a girlfriend?
Yeah but... (Score:4, Funny)
We've already seen how this ends up:
http://i.imgur.com/q0ycr.png [imgur.com]
Hackers? Heck, it worked on terrorists. (Score:4, Interesting)
The best way to eliminate terrorists was actually invented by Yasser Arafat and some of his advisors, who themselves had invented Black September, the terrorist group that murdered Israeli athletes at the 72 Olympics in Munich:
http://m.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/2001/12/hoffman.htm [theatlantic.com]
When they weren't needed any more...they married them off. Told them to go into deep cover in Jordan, found pretty Palestinian girls to marry the "heroes", have kids, be "sleeper agents"...and never gave them a mission. Interviewed years later, few were willing to accept one any more.
This will NEVER work! (Score:3)
First of all, where are you going to find girls that are interested in geeks? Are you going to import mail order brides from China or something? Half the hackers in the world are already in China!
Secondly, despite being overweight, unshaven, sloppy, smelly, ugly themselves, hackers have a very high self-opinion of themselves, and, after having watched a gazallion hours of pr0n on the internet, will be remarkably picky about the looks/abilities of the potential girlfriend. They aren't going to settle for just anybody. Ideally, this person needs to look like Jeri Ryan and should have the brains of Jeri Ellsworth (come on, I think that was a pretty clever match-up)...
And lastly, such girls don't exist, so, finding them, and then, what, paying them to date and have sex with these guys without blowing their cover? It just won't work, it will never work, and the whole idea just doesn't add up at all.
correlation != causation (Score:3)
Don't assume that just because they discovered girls at the same time they quit hacking it's the reason why. Maybe they started paying attention to girls (or girls started paying attention to them) because they got bored playing with tech toys? Or that both happened for the same reason: adulthood?
Many troll articles today (Score:4, Insightful)
The article is full of prejudice, misinformation and bullshit. First of all, the hackers causing real damage aren't your stereotypical basement dwellers: most of them are either part of a criminal organisation or a state agency. The young kiddies who do it for the lulz, as a challenge or to support an ideology are only the visible tip of a huge iceberg, as they are the ones who are either too careless to cover their trails or directly announce their deeds. Most of the time they cause little harm, and sometimes can even be valuable when pointing out vulnerabilities which could have lead to the loss of sensitive data in the hands of a more mischievous hacker. If you want to stop them from growing up to be blackhats, the most important thing would be legislation that doesn't send them to jail for pointing out that a door is open. If you don't want them to become outcasts, don't cast them out. Provide them with ways to use their skills within the boundaries of the law. Sending a shoplifting kid to jail is a sure way to turn him into a robber, and the iron fist approach will not work any better on adolescent hackers.
Decisions...Decisions (Score:3)
I wonder what would be more effective in this thought provoking conundrum?
Yeah I suppose you could get them girlfriends...or you could just take away their computer and give them an iPad instead.
Mates not required. (Score:3)
I am an over 35 years old virgin male nerd/geek who never had a date/lady mate before (blame my multiple disabilities I was born with). I also barely have time for fun (used to play computer games a lot). I do security testings for work though. Maybe I will finally get a woman one day or not... :(
Make them a prisoner's girlfriend (Score:3)
It doesn't have to be get them a girlfriend or put them in prison.
Put them in prison and they automatically have (umm I mean, become) a girlfriend!
Re: (Score:2)
Apparently what they still don't got are good grammar.
Re:Same with terrorists... (Score:5, Funny)
Of course they were married. Why do you think they volunteered?
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There were no 9/11 "bombers", well outside of conspiracy land.
But yes a quarter of them were married.
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Honey is fun, but Cool Whip is a less sticky alternative.
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This just in: Men and Women Are Different!
You can put a man and a woman in the same situation and will often get different results.