2013 H-1B Visa Supply Nearly Exhausted 428
CowboyRobot writes with news on the FY2013 allocation of H-1B visas. From the article: "As of June 1, the government had issued 55,600 standard H-1B visas out of the annual allotment of 65,000, according to United States Immigration and Citizenship Services (USCIS). The feds also issued 18,700 H-1B visas reserved for graduates of advanced degree programs in the U.S., out of 20,000. " CowboyRobot continues, "Last year work visas did not run out until late November, but this year the pool of visas is almost entirely claimed and it's still only June. One interpretation of this is that the tech industry is hiring much more actively than it was a year ago. Some companies, such as Microsoft, have been lobbying to increase the number of available visas (currently limited to 65,000) while others argue that offering visas to foreign workers reduces job prospects for Americans."
A bit more from the article: "Industry lobby group Partnership for A New American Economy last month released a study that claims the U.S. will face a shortage of 224,000 tech workers by 2018 unless immigration rules are loosened."
Hire the unemployed (Score:3, Insightful)
I know this will sound crazy, and I'm just spitballing here, but bear with me.
There is a large group of people in this country trying to find jobs. Some have been out of work for months, if not years, while others are looking to move on with their career. Tech companies are complaining they can't find anyone which is why they have to go the H-1B visa route
Here comes the crazy part. Someone needs to figure out a way to get the people who are out of work in touch with these companies who are "desperate" to fill these open positions. It's a win-win situation. People who are out of work get to go back to work, and companies get to fill these open positions.
I'm not capable of figuring out how to do this so someone else will have to do the heavy lifting, but I assure you, if there is some way this can be done, they will be given laurels by the tech industry.
Re:Thank God. (Score:1, Insightful)
Most of the comp sci classes I took were filled to the gills
and guess what... 95% of you suck. "Comp sci classes I took" sounds like a real serious education.
I hire H-1Bs, I hire Americans. Whoever is best for the job.
Re:Thank God. (Score:4, Insightful)
This right here would probably solve the issue in one iteration.
Of course it could also backfire and bring our wages down to the point where they still recruit H-1Bs
Re:Hire the unemployed (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm an older worker (47) and be more than happy to take what I can get. I'd be more than happy to learn a new language, platform, tools, etc .... I'm just a C,C++, Java, SQL guy on UNIX and Windows so my skills are out of date and no one uses those languages and platforms anymore. And I haven't been working for a few years in the industry - just developing software for my businesses that tanked in the economy.
I hear this sort of thing all the time when I'm intervewing candidates. People say to me, Yeah, I'd really like to learn [Java,C#,Ruby,SomeOtherLanguage]. Then I ask them what they think about [FreeDevelopmentEnvironmentForThatLanguage]. And they say "Oh, I haven't downloaded that yet." .
Next...
If you've been unemployed for months and have nothing to show for that time, you're probably not somebody I want to hire.
Re:Thank God. (Score:4, Insightful)
Just like American businesses (Score:4, Insightful)
First they whine about having to pay too many taxes, and they complain about being oppressed by too many regulations. They want to pay no taxes and have next to no government interference in their profiteering.
They want to pay zero taxes, yet they want the government to give them a strong military, police and justice system so their profits and interests are adequately protected. They want to pay nothing to the IRS, yet want a well designed and functioning infrastructure in which to operate.
And now they want to create a false sense of emergency with regard to their work force, to hire complacent, affordable foreign workers via H1-B, rather than hire domestic workers some of whom may be unemployed by no fault of their own.
Why is it we continue bending over backwards for these unpatriotic "people" again?
Re:unsigned short (Score:2, Insightful)
You assume government contractors are quick, efficient, and most importantly: competent.
Surprised it has not run out yet. (Score:4, Insightful)
Also many young Indians no longer want to work in USA. Almost all the popular entertainment is now available in USA unlike the situation some 10 years ago. All the TV channels of all the languages are available either via satellite or via internet streaming. Cricket clubs are popping up everywhere and cricket channels are available from UK and Australia too. Vegetarianism support has increased tremendously over the last decade. Technically the life of a fresh immigrant Indian is much easier now than it was when were coming in, the early 1990s. But the biggest problem is the domestic chores. In India labor is so cheap, these people usually employ a maid and possibly a cook. Back then when I was earning 200$ a month as a government scientist I was spending 10$ a month on a maid. (All seven days a week, scrub the cement floor with wet rags and disinfectant, do the dishes, do the laundry and clean the bathrooms). So they don't do any household chores and consider cleaning the bathroom beneath their dignity. So now USA has lost its luster for the younger generation of India.
It is a pity. They don't know what they are missing. They are highly misinformed about America. They think India is going to be the super power in 20 years. They have absolutely no idea of the depth of the strength of America and the time it would take to build a society like America. Of course it would take just a few decades to undo it. But to build it, it would take a few centuries. They don't know that.
Re:Hire the unemployed (Score:4, Insightful)
You know they could be bringing these people in because all the decent, diligent, intelligent and reliable local workers have jobs already and those without jobs are crap at what they do. Or am I mistaken and actually all Americans, even the thick and stupid ones, are better workers than highly-educated and motivated people from countries like India or from within the EU?
Just a thought.
Re:Thank God. (Score:4, Insightful)
There are ways around that. Obviously, a Jr. DBA isn't gonna be paid as much as a Sr. DBA. But who's to know if the guy classified as a Jr. DBA is doing work usually done by a Sr. DBA?
Re:There's a Few More Factors at Work (Score:5, Insightful)
But government doesn't have to sponsor that.
There is *no* reason that Government has to be cheerleader of multinational corporations. I know that most people almost take it as a given, silent assumption these days, but if a corporation is doing something bad for the country there is no need for government to encourage it, and that is what is happening with H1-Bs and our tax code right now. Hell.. if a corporation is doing something absolutely harmful, government can END that corporation. Most people seem to believe in the back of their minds that corporations are somehow an idea handed down by God... they're not. They don't exist without government of some sort.
Re:There you go! BINGO! (Score:4, Insightful)
So, I'll pose the same question to you... In the last two years, what have you accomplished? What non-profit did you help with their IT needs? What open-source software did you contribute to? What project did you begin in the hopes that it will be the next big thing?
Your problem may be your attitude, not your skills.
Re:Thank God. (Score:5, Insightful)
Most of the comp sci classes I took were filled to the gills
and guess what... 95% of you suck. "Comp sci classes I took" sounds like a real serious education.
I hire H-1Bs, I hire Americans. Whoever is best for the job.
And if 95% of the H1-Bs didn't suck, I wouldn't complain about the program. The stated case for H1-B is to allow highly skilled workers with skills not found in the US to enter and work here. The reality of the situation is that it's a program to drive down prices for tech workers by hiring mostly unskilled workers, all the while treating them as indentured servants.
Re:Shortage by 2018 (Score:4, Insightful)
..apparently the answer is Yes
The world last Superpower is only that based on it's military, which is based on manufacturing strength
The more that is outsourced and done elsewhere the less US corporations will have to deal with US workers ... you already have one of the largest differences in Pay between Management and Workers, weak or non-existent unions to protect workers rights..... I see a future when a few corporations will get very rich, and the US population will be out of work
Re:Thank God. (Score:5, Insightful)
There's an amazing amount of prejudice in HR, where they believe that Indian workers are smarter and work harder than American citizens. I've met a couple of examples that prove that such thoughts are unwarranted. Sometimes an American can do a better job, even without a degree from Hyderabad.
Re:Cant Americans compete? (Score:5, Insightful)
Belief in slavery, that's why.
I've encountered many who really believe slaves make better workers. This includes the slaves. "I owe, I owe, it's off to work I go" is practically the national motto of the US. They don't call it slavery of course. They call it commitment, reliability and stability. They believe people must be pushed hard, and will do their best when they are in "do or die" situations, there's a gun pointing at their heads, their necks' are on the chopping blocks and the ax is ready to fall. Even better when they have volunteered. "Ability to work in high pressure environment" is a popular and sought after soft skill. They believe this so strongly that they put a higher priority on their ability to get and maintain holds over a job candidate than the abilities and skills they're seeking. Being financially responsible counts against you! They want you set up so that you're in a world of hurt if you lose your job. This is why the US does not have sane health care spending. Relieving employers of the burden of paying for and managing a health care program is seemingly one of the most business friendly things government could do. Yet business opposed it. Why? Employers like having holds over employees, and health benefits make a good one.
Ever had a boss observe that you haven't bought a new car? And this despite the fact that your current car works fine? I have, twice, and my mother once. Why is the boss so interested in your car? No one else cares. One of these bosses explained it, saying that because I wasn't making car payments, I could afford to leave my job and this was bad! At another job, the phrase "flight risk" was used to refer to employees who could afford to leave their jobs. At still another job, a fellow employee told me that he was a better employee than I because he had to have the job in order to afford his crushingly high house payments (he paid $500,000 for a small house, in California, in 2003), and his wife and new baby daughter, whereas I was living in an apartment. He made sure everyone, especially management, knew how screwed he would be if he lost his job, and that he was willing to work long hours. Often, managers are also slaves, and tend to be jealous of peons who have freedoms they don't have. Had one manager who groaned theatrically about his massive credit card debt, but it was easy to see he was really kind of bragging about it. He even held a little pissing contest one day, asking everyone how much credit card debt we had. He "won" by "virtue" of having the most. I refused to answer, and this was met with hostility, and the suspicion that I must not have any, and jealousy.
So of course H1Bs have massive advantages over the natives.
Re:Thank God. (Score:5, Insightful)
You do realize you just explained why the process drives down wages right? Your HR department might not fight with you over the differences in 80 to 90k but over time as the average is lowered, 110 becomes the new 120.
Re:Hire the unemployed (Score:4, Insightful)
If you've been unemployed for months and have nothing to show for that time, you're probably not somebody I want to hire.
I was an admin for 5 years and have worked in IT for more than a decade. Two years ago I lost my job because it was a 'cost cutting move' by the board of the group I worked for. When I went looking for work, I looked at any IT jobs I could qualify for. Which goes from helpdesk work up to admin work of various types. Any job less than my last I heard back from said I was overqualified and wouldn't hire me. Any job equal to or slightly more than I had done wanted a degree higher than what I had and wouldn't even give me an interview.
I did plenty of things during that period, but none of them where specifically for any company. I even tried to do a bit of consulting and had a little bit of work as such. However after a point everyone assumes that if you weren't working for another company during that time you did nothing and you therefor are not hire-able. In the end I found a college that was willing to give me a job as a onsite technician for pennies and it looks like I'll have to rebuild my entire career because a change in the market. That is frankly silly.
Re:Thank God. (Score:5, Insightful)
I used to feel this way, too. That is, until I tried to go about filling some vacant developer positions.
The company I work for is located near New York City, so there's presumably a big field of qualified applicants within a 50-100 mile radius, right?
Wrong.
We got a lot of resumes, all right. We weren't even against hiring someone straight out of college, if they were competent and willing to learn. But what I noticed was that the vast majority of resumes were from immigrants, primarily from China and India, though there were a few other countries in the mix. Native-born Americans just don't seem all that interested in writing software. I admit the stuff I work on isn't sexy--it's healthcare software, not something sold to home users. Even so, you'd think more people would be interested in a steady job in a growth field, yet almost all the interest is from people who emigrated here. We don't go out of our way to give jobs to immigrants, we treat all applicants equally and give them a fair shake based on their experience, how they interview, and how they code.
I don't know, maybe all the white guys (let's face it, that's what we're really talking about) only want to work on video games or something.
I did look at some degree statistics recently and saw that computer science degrees (and engineering degrees in general) are quite a small slice of the overall college education pie. You know what most people are going to college for now? Business and law. Everyone wants to either be a CEO or a lawyer.
Anyway, I wish H1Bs weren't necessary, but from what I've seen we really do have a shortage of qualified computer science graduates. What I assume happened is that the dotcom crash put an entire generation off of pursuing CS. The only people going into it now are those with a passion for it, and that's apparently not enough to meet the demand.
Re:Thank God. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Thank God. (Score:4, Insightful)
Resurrecting this long-dormant account to respond to this trolling:
Firstly, speaking as an H-1B holder, the law *requires* that H-1B workers are paid the average salary or better for their job title in their location -- e.g. an H-1B worker hired as a "junior software engineer" in San Francisco cannot be paid less than $90,000. It is therefore mathematically impossible for H-1B workers to lower the average wage paid to tech workers. If you're curious about what H-1B wages are like near you, you can look them up here: http://www.flcdatacenter.com/ [flcdatacenter.com]
Secondly, speaking as a co-founder of a startup, I can assure you that the skills gap is extremely real. Merely having a CS degree does not impart you with some magical ability to write quality software. The world is full of really terrible coders, and almost no good ones. It is extremely hard to hire right now.
The bigotry on this thread is awe inspiring. (Score:4, Insightful)
There is nothing to distinguish the primary sentiments expressed here from the hatred of European Jews, Italians, Irish, West-Africans, etc. that have been voiced by the most backward and unthinking bigots throughout American history. Each of the individuals seeking work here has - in our founders' terms - an inalienable right to pursue their happiness in any peaceful manner they choose.
When they ask for a job at a given wage, they are infringing no one else's rights - noone has a "right" to a job at a higher wage than the employer is willing to pay. It is only by dropping this context that someone can complain about the so-called "unfair" competition imposed by other individual job seekers, no matter where they come from. There is no un-bigoted reason to prefer that someone born in America gets a given job over someone born elsewhere.
Yes, the H-1B visa program should be abolished - in favor of absolutely free immigration and job-seeking by any non-criminal from any place in the world. This is America's promise, as expressed eloquently on the Statue of Liberty. Where has that spirit gone?
Re:Hire the unemployed (Score:4, Insightful)