New York City Pushes Plan To Prevent Cyberattacks On Elevators, Boilers 171
coondoggie writes "Imagine what would happen if an attacker broke into the network for the industrial control systems for New York City's elevators and boiler systems and decided to disrupt them, imperiling the lives of hundreds of thousands of residents relying on them. Think it could never happen? Think again. 'You could increase the speed of how elevators go up or down,' says Steve Ramirez, business analyst, analysis and communications in the Office of the CIO of the New York City Housing Authority, which provides public housing for low- to moderate-income families in the five boroughs of the city. And if attackers ever successfully penetrated the network-based industrial control systems for the boilers, they could raise the heat levels for municipal boilers, causing them to explode." Maybe Bruce Schneier could run a new movie-scenario contest about ways this could play out.
DUMB (Score:5, Insightful)
These systems shouldn't be network accessible anyway.
!!!
Re:DUMB (Score:5, Insightful)
And even if they are, why on earth would they have software-configurable speeds or pressures that can range outside of safe parameters? The safety limits should be hard-coded.
Re:DUMB (Score:5, Informative)
They aren't the writer is a idiot. Boiler's have MULTIPLE safeties that will just them down locally.
Not to mention mechanically pressure release devices, at worst they would vent boiler water onto the boiler room floor...
Re:DUMB (Score:5, Interesting)
They aren't the writer is a idiot. Boiler's have MULTIPLE safeties that will just [shut] them down locally.
Not to mention [mechanical] pressure release devices; at worst they would vent boiler water onto the boiler room floor...
We hope. Far too many geeks just assume what's drop dead obvious to them is drop dead obvious to users/regular mortals. You guys should know by now that's not true.
Then, add in moronic management. !@#$ generally wants to happen if it can. See Murphy's Law.
Re:DUMB (Score:4, Insightful)
I hope users/regular mortals are not installing boilers instead of professionals.
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Remember how hard it was last time to find talented, compenent help? Double or treble that difficulty.
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We hope. Far too many geeks just assume what's drop dead obvious to them is drop dead obvious to users/regular mortals^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hjourneyman boilermakers and elevator engineers.
FTFY. The general public may be assumed to be idiots, but the aforementioned specialists should not.
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FTFY. The general public may be assumed to be idiots, but the aforementioned specialists should not.
I hope you're right (about the latter). I've met far too many people in IT who barely made the grade as far as I was concerned. Hopefully, those trades do better on that score.
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Don't worry too much. There are always outliers in any field, but things like elevator experts, journeymen boiler makers, master electricians, pipe-fitters, etc are tightly regulated and enjoy a very high degree of general professionalism and competence, particularly regarding safety.
I've been employed in a couple of these trades as w
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So, many MBA/management types are tempted into thinking that even though putting all that infrastructure/mechanical control on the 'net might not be the safest idea, it sure saves money in skilled labor costs, though!
You've got to wonder, why isn't that facet taught to those MBA types? Liability can be a hell of a lot more expensive than mere labour. Are the MBAs to blame, or don't insurance companies know what they're doing?
I'm thinking of that building in Hong Kong (?) where some bright boy decided to move some honking big machinery from where it was to the roof, leading to the collapse of the building. That kind of comedy of errors just astounds me. First, why attempt it in the first place; is there no alternativ
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In your programming world, you make shit up to comply with made up requirements, and get shitty software as a result.
Holmes Inspection is a TV series premised on the fact that home buyers have hired a professional to vet their intended buy, and have been screwed regardless. I've never been a great fan of so-called vetted professionals[*]. "MCSE" == "Must Call Somebody Else" or "Minesweeper Consultant and Solitaire Expert". :-P
And no, in my world, I study the problem to death then design a solution that's tested to death to make the problem go away forever.
[*] There are Sun Certified engineers out there who can't list a
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All of the ones I've found had something in common -- no CS degree.
Huh. Some of the best I've worked with were self trained, some even high school dropouts. A degree can mean you can suffer regimentation and drudgery, and learn to take tests. Woohoo.
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Don't know about that.. I've known some pretty useless IT people who had CS degrees.
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I actually worked in the industry for years, it's law they have to have safeties, both mechanical and electrical ...
You've more faith in the law than I. In my experience, people do what little they hope they can get away with, and the law's only purpose is to clean up the mess that they didn't get away with once their error manifests itself. I wish that were not so. I hate learning about innocents who've been victimized.
I love working with the Mike Holmes types who take their obligations seriously, but I've not met many recently who do.
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You can think of "hot water" as the product. You want a heater that makes hot water... so it's a "hot water heater".
I know, it sounds silly.. but you can grammatically justify it if you stretch a little. :)
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they could raise the heat levels for municipal boilers, causing them to explode.
Yes, and splash toxic oxygen dihydride [wikipedia.org] all around.
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Users find ways to get around safety features too. Such as a machine requiring two users to push two buttons that are far apart in order to turn on the machine, but then it turns out someone figures out that they can just put a weight on one of the buttons and operate it with only one person.
Software can also be used to add safety. Same machine as above may be asking several times during operation "ask the patient's name" and so forth, all so that info can be cross referenced and operation shut down if th
Re:DUMB (Score:4, Funny)
I remember the description of the ideal factory security system. It consisted of a computer console, a dog and one human being.
The reason for computer console was to run the factory.
The reason for the human being was to feed the dog.
The reason for the dog was to keep the human being away from the computer console.
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I think the point is that the hard-coded software can be swapped with the software from the building with a basement, or more floors aka 'the Wonka Factory effect' :-)
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And even if they are, why on earth would they have software-configurable speeds or pressures that can range outside of safe parameters? The safety limits should be hard-coded.
In the case of boilers, they're not coded at all. There's a physical pressure relief valve. Jesus Christ! Programmers think hardware designers rely on CODE to make things safe???
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Yeah! Go the Battlestar Galactica route and un-network all of this stuff!
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Yeah! Go the Battlestar Galactica route and un-network all of this stuff!
Can't you just cross the tachyon beams?
Offline? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Offline? (Score:4, Insightful)
They probably are. This guy is just trying to sell fear for personal gain (money or power). Ben Franklin was right when he said the greatest danger are those in power who are filled with avarice or ambition.
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They probably are. This guy is just trying to sell fear for personal gain (money or power). Ben Franklin was right when he said the greatest danger are those in power who are filled with avarice or ambition.
(pro)active stupidity in power is even worse.
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Democrat Congressman to Pentagon general: "I am concerned that if we put too many tanks on the island might..... tip over." - Yep. Stupidity in a leader is dangerous.
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Democrat Congressman to Pentagon general: "I am concerned that if we put too many tanks on the island might..... tip over." - Yep. Stupidity in a leader is dangerous.
(anecdotes aside... active stupidity is dangerous because makes the actions unpredictable. Avarice and ambitions show at least a pattern).
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Re:Read only settings (Score:5, Funny)
How else would the turbo button work?
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because the speed will probably have to be calibrated again after a period of time.
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Ok, so why do you need to do that over a network?
I mean, if the elevator speed is inaccurate, then that means the sensors in the elevator that determine it's speed are inaccurate, so you have to bring new sensors on site anyway, so you can calibrate it onsite.
Re:Read only settings (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps compliance with new regulations? A service company could theoretically roll an update out accross a country or state without having to visit each elevator.
No you do that ON-SITE. This is not web services or video games. You have someone there locally to confirm it is working in real life when making parameter changes like this.
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Every big-city building (residential AND commercial) I've ever spent a lot of time in has had elevator techs onsite at least monthly. In one building I lived in, the elevator company had their own office space off the lobby.
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express mode is faster as they don't stop at each (Score:2)
express mode is faster as they don't stop at each each floor.
Also there is a slow maintenance mode that also is in place.
most elevator have manual maintenance controls on top of the cab.
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Emergency use? Maybe paramedics...
Does this guy even know anything about this? (Score:5, Insightful)
Boilers have release valves for a reason. Even if you could turn the heat all the way up the safety release valves would let go. You would have to weld those shut to explode a boiler. If the "evil-doers" are welding those shut you have other problems
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You beat me to the punch. Likewise, many of these other systems will have hardwired safety systems that limit the danger they present.
I still think this equipment should be on isolated networks, but it's harder for me to get overly excited about ICS vulnerabilities.
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Elevators also have speed controls, and cannot go faster than a certain designed-in speed because of mechanical reasons, not CPU controlled ones.
Besides, most elevators (and most boilers) in NYC predate the internet. On the elevators that are more modern, the average New Yorker would greatly appreciate it if you could speed them up somehow.....
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Exactly. The speed of the elevator will be limited to the motor power. Now you could do something dangerous like waiting until 5 seconds after the door opens and then drop the elevator 10 feet. I don't know about the particular designs to know if there is a mechanical interrupt when the doors are open.
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There is. Doesn't help when somebody bypasses [nytimes.com] it, but at least that has to be done on site.
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And the motor power will be enough to do the job it's designed to do, perhaps with a little bit to spare.
Some years back I blocked the elevator doors with my foot to hold it for a colleague I'd seen arriving. I didn't go for the button because I'd almost certainly hit the wrong one.
Someone asked if I was worried that I might get my foot crushed. I said that even if the sensor failed, the motor wouldn't be powerful enough. And why would it be? It's unnecessary cost putting a 1200 hp motor to close a god
Re:Does this guy even know anything about this? (Score:5, Funny)
Elevators also have speed controls, and cannot go faster than a certain designed-in speed because of mechanical reasons, not CPU controlled ones.
Aw crap, there goes my idea for a poor man's space elevator.
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What about systems with more than one elevator per shaft.. I know a couple high rises like that and they are probably software controlled through and through. Or I wonder is there a hardware mechanism that could handle idiotproofing it?
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I'm a bit baffled by this also. If all of the City's boilers and elevators are on the same network, and someone could successfully hack into it, they could possibly do some minor amount of damage. But really.... Elevators only hold a few people. And how many buildings actually have boilers? Don't most modern buildings use heat pumps? I don't know of any building that still uses steam, and those that do would be unlikely to have sophisticated networked controls.
You'd get much more bang for the buck by bombin
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. And how many buildings actually have boilers? Don't most modern buildings use heat pumps? I don't know of any building that still uses steam, and those that do would be unlikely to have sophisticated networked controls.
NO buildings of any size uses heat pumps, they are very inefficient...
Pretty much every large building has a boiler or more likely several.
as far as steam I'm not sure how many systems new systems are being installed but any older building that's been keep up has had its control systems modernized. Example the Empire State Building's system is completely computer controlled (its steam)
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Seems like someone has been watching too many 80s B movies.
Nah. Al Quaida's just lost so many of their leaders via drone strikes, they're outsourcing strategy and planning to the net. Smiple. [sic] Funny they'd come here. :-?
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Your smiley face question mark just blew my mind.
You don't get out much? [Something profound goes here, but escapes me ATM ...]
Tooduls. Have fun, and try not to hurt anybody.
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Boilers have release valves for a reason. Even if you could turn the heat all the way up the safety release valves would let go. You would have to weld those shut to explode a boiler. If the "evil-doers" are welding those shut you have other problems
Exactly what I was thinking.
Same thing with the elevators. Other than the dynamic braking that goes on, elevators pretty much operate at full-tilt anyway, and I am quite sure that there is a hard software/hardware limiter that sets an upper limit on the ascent/descent speed, as well as the maximum accel/decel rate.
Any elevator engineers/techs care to weigh in on this?
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Boilers have release valves for a reason. Even if you could turn the heat all the way up the safety release valves would let go. You would have to weld those shut to explode a boiler. If the "evil-doers" are welding those shut you have other problems
Also, elevators have safety systems that deploy brakes automatically when an accelerometer detects a sudden acceleration well oustide of normal operating parameters.
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In New York where temperatures can go below freezing, a more devastating attack might be bust them enough to shut them down due to damage. Damage enough and the repair guys won't have enough parts or time to repair them all before the water starts freezing and causing even more problems. If the goal of terrorism is to upset the people, shutting the heat off on a bunch of lower income folks during a cold snap might trigger the desired instability.
Re:So much hype over hackers (Score:5, Insightful)
Just try to get into any big bilding without a security guard on your ass.
Get a boilerman's uniform. Wave your visitors pass. If the guard insists on accompanying you, look busy until he goes to pinch a loaf.
Half the reason Kevin Mitnick was notorious was not because he was a stone cold hacker - he was a good social engineer.
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Not sure exactly *when* but the phrase is pretty obvious and transparent to anyone that's ever made bread and it seems certain it was originally coined with that in mind, with a quite narrow and specific meaning. Those who havent made bread tend to use it simply as a synonym for 'take a dump' (as the guy you were replying to seems to have done,) but when used properly it's hard to think of any other phrase to use that would be so apt.
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Once you've got the uniform and have bypassed the guard, then you can just sabotage the boiler without hacking any software.
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"But that require access. Just try to get into any big bilding without a security guard on your ass."
I'm a mechanic, and I dress in commercial uniform items. People act differently when you enter commercial suppliers because you "look like you belong".
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Kevin Mitnick might disagree. [amazon.com] Replace curiosity with malice... the techniques still work.
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Apparently you only looked at my first sentence and jumped to reply. Go back and read my whole post, please.
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But that [requires] access. Just try to get into any big [building] without a security guard on your ass.
How about an airport? I've seen multiple stories attesting to the fact that passengers are scrutinized enormously, while catering staff and baggage handlers are challenged once at beginning of shift, then given free reign and left alone.
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s/reign/rein/
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Probably aren't many security guards patrolling boiler rooms of residential buildings. Luckily, we generally use district heating in apartment buildings over here and that includes mine so no need to worry about that.
hmmm (Score:3, Insightful)
"business analyst, analysis and communications in the Office of the CIO of the New York City Housing Authority (NYCHA)"
So a housing authority needs a full office for Information systems and in that office it needs a business analyst (because that is part of information systems)?
Sound like a bureaucrat that needs to justify the job his dad got him.
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A housing authority housing (probably... too lazy to look up numbers) thousands of families, and probably tracking financial information on them all, across several hundred separate locations? No, they don't need an IS department at all. They can use Excel, right?
Do they need an IS service dept that resorts in connecting these utilities to the net? What for?
These types of attack have never happened, but in the age of ever-mounting cyber exploits, NYCHA, which is responsible for over a thousand buildings in the city, wants to take every precaution, though it could get expensive
. Ah, I see... that explains [despair.com] (works even better if you are not on a consulting position, but a permanent hire).
Movies eh? (Score:3)
In a World where up isn't always the direction you're headed and going down will kill you, A hero will rise...
TERRORVATOR
*break*
Ted Buttson wasn't exactly the best elevator repairman "Y'know normally the buttons don't do this" (empty elevator drops from sight, crashes). In fact you could say he was the worst elevator repairman "Why do they build these things with all these extra bolts?" (elevator doors fall in), but sometimes it doesn't matter who you are if you're on the right floor at the right time "H-hey! I think these guys wanna do something BAD to this elevator!". Coming this summer from the same studio that brought you predictable comedy before comes "TED: Going Down" (close up shot of actor making faces with sexy music playing)
[NOT YET RATED]
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This has been done before... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087622/ [imdb.com]
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Ah, but this would be the American version, with dames, car chases, terrorists, plenty of one-liners and explosions!
IN (unconvincing) 3D!!
Derp, meet Herp (Score:5, Insightful)
"Imagine what would happen if an attacker broke into the network for the industrial control systems for New York City's elevators and boiler systems."
Some people would have to take the stairs and others would take cold showers. A truly terrifying prospect. Elevators and hot water are conveniences; People don't die from the lack of them.
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And the best part is that all the elevators and boilers will be reconfigured back to normal the next day and the world keeps on spinning like nothing happened.
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Think of downing the boilers in the middle of a bad winter, timed to coincide with a snow storm to hamper emergency response.
OK, I'm thinking of it. I'm thinking of it for a week long outage.
Welcome to PSE [pse.com] service territory.
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If 100 buildings with 10+ floors were suddenly without heat or elevators in the middle of a cold winter storm, don't you think that is a little more inconvenient than just cold showers?
I know what a boiler is, and I live in Minnesota. The lowest temperature recorded in New York during the winter is about -20. That's about the temperature where it starts to get cold enough that I'd think about keeping my pants on under the covers. Also, it takes days for a building to cool to freezing after a heating system fails; Just like a refrigerator doesn't immediately warm up to room temperature when you pull the plug. I've been in an apartment building when the boiler failed and was used as the pri
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You've obviously not lived in New York
I won't deny that... but our roads are well-maintained, solid industrial development, people are generally polite, it doesn't cost you your first born to park downtown, not much politics, and nobody here is stupid enough to build or live in a poorly-insulated building despite at the same latitude. New Yorkers must be a special kind of stupid.
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Elevators and hot water are conveniences; People don't die from the lack of them.
Blatently, you have never tried to breathe near a collegue with an underperforming hygiene regime and/or instant movement-induced persperation. Lucky you.
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Emergency response time would increase SIGNIFICANTLY. People would die.
Just jumping on the "Cyberwarfare" bandwagon (Score:3)
Cyberwarfare means money. As most of the preceding posters have identified, most of the perceived threat is total horseshit. But because computers are full of magic smoke and fairies, muggles presume that a computer hooked up to a machine is a terrible threat. Haven't you seen the famous historical documentary, "Terminator" ???
It's just like the TSA - because there hasn't been a compumatronically induced apocalypse, we're doing a good job, right? Hell yeah, line up another raft of Cyberwarfare Funding Bills, and we need some more staff to hotswap the drives in our pr0n^W evidence storage RAID array.
Imagine no articles like this (Score:2)
because they didn't let certified idiots connect industrial controls to the Wacky Wacky Webbiepoo.
this is real simple. turn off the interconnects, and toss those boxes in the trash.
we knew enough when modems ran at 100 baud to not connect critical systems to an outside influence.
Boilers and elevators have mechanical safeties (Score:2)
Most boiler and elevator design predates electronic/computerized controls so they have mechanical safeties.
Thumbs up to everyone who said networking them to the Internet is a DUMB idea.
Fear-mongering for fun & profit (Score:3)
Fear-mongering for fun & profit seems to be the new & improved USA business model, especially for governments at every level. Afraid of terrorists? Obviously, they are everywhere, and can strike at any time. Be afraid. Surrender all your rights & liberties, and (especially) your money to the government. The "war on terror" will save you, even from yourself. The DHS has spent over $1 Trillion fighting "terrorism" since its' founding. Is life without any risks whatsoever really living? And can one even prove that the benefit outweighs the cost, when success is only proven with a negative result? And the only positive results, aka real terrorism, for the past 25 years have been government promulgated?
The "war on terror" is a black hole the USA throws money into, without actually making anyone safer. In fact, just the opposite is the case. Vastly increased sovereign debt threatens those very government programs & infrastructure that do help to keep us safe, healthy, and happy. Our infrastructure, like bridges, public health system, national power grid, water purification plants all suffer from competition with the "war on terror". OMG, man-made carbon dioxide is threatening us with global warming -- quick, let's ship all our industries overseas. OMG, there are religious fundamentalists half a world away that hate us for our freedoms -- quick, let's spend $4.5 Trillion in 10 years on perpetual warfare against these people. Surely they will not hate us any more if we drop money-bombs on them along with bloody expensive military ordinance, including their wedding parties and funerals. OMG, someone smuggled the equivalent of an M-80 firecracker in their pants onto a USA-bound plane -- quick, let's spend $250 Billion on terahertz-wave body scanners and place them everywhere, not just airports. Before we surrender more of our individual rights & liberties or more blood & treasure, let's get the answer to "Who benefits, and why?"
The truth is, if you feel personally at risk of bodily harm due to acts of terrorism, go out and buy even 1 lottery ticket because the odds against you winning are only 1 in 175 Million, while an act of terrorism (a real act of terrorism not fabricated by government) is closer to 1 in 1,000 Million. Feeling "lucky" -- buy that lottery ticket. Ignore things like auto accidents with uninsured drunken drivers, or getting struck by lightening four weekends in a row when you go play golf.
Industrial Control Systems have no business with internet access to operational processes, rather than merely an alarm or data monitoring channel, in any case.
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Robert Anton Wilson said it many years ago, and ever since I read it, I have been watching it become more and more obvious and uncontrovertible every year since.
"The number one cause of national insecurity is national security."
We need a cyberwarfare defense organization (Score:2)
We definitely need to train an elite corps of cyberwarfare personnel to deal with this sort of threat. I propose dividing the corps up into three tactical teams:
Alpha Team will carry out recon and patrol duties, identifying computer systems responsible for controlling potentially dangerous hardware systems.
Bravo Team is responsible for extraction and isolation. Their mission is to walk up to these machines and unplug them from the Internet.
Charlie Team is the counterinsertion team. They will be equipped
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If your reactor works this way, you had a serious safety problem long before I came in with the glue gun. I just made it obvious, so you're welcome.
More concerned about negligence than ter'ists (Score:2)
And pedophiles can make keyboards emit fumes (Score:2)
to subdue children [wikipedia.org].
It's 2012 - aren't we past this sort of "Only my Department can save you from the eBogeyman - with proper funding" yet?
Obv. the OP never lived in an NYC Apt. (Score:2)
You mean that, through clever hacking, I can actually activate the boiler?? Like, when it gets cold?? No more listening to bullshit excuses from the landlord??
Now I can quit banging on the pipes.
What about escalators? (Score:2)
All it takes is one terrorist with a chin-up bar [xkcd.com] and we are all doomed!
Explode? (Score:2)
What kind of idiot would design a boiler without a pressure relief valve? I think that would be only the kind that aren't allowed to design boilers.
How do you spell FUD? (Score:2)
It wonders me to see a forum like slashdot not recognizing FUD tactics.
This time, FUD targets everyone's stability and inspires fear from everything.
"You are warned, don't tell you are not, once your elevator leaves for moon. With you inside."
elevator also have a fire mode (Score:2)
elevator also have a fire mode where they go to the lowest floor or lobby and hold the doors open.
Now with the fireman's key you can move the elevator to any floor that you want (some times even floors that need a key card) and reject calls.
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A few months ago, our building manager decided to upgrade our bathroom with the latest Cyrus Cybernetics Corporation sinks and toilets, which can see dimly into the future, thus turning on the faucet and soap dispenser just before you went to the bathroom. Of course this upgrade took 2 months and the bathroom was closed. So I had go to a different floor if I need to take a dump.
I got into the elevator (apparently also upgraded by Cyrus Cybernetics Corporation) and pushed the "up" button. I started going
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... The Princess Bride are all so horrible.
Bite your tongue! "I am Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die!"
Classic.
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