Analysis of 250,000 Hacker Conversations 111
Orome1 writes "Imperva released a report (PDF) analyzing the content and activities of an online hacker forum with nearly 220,000 registered members, although many are dormant. The forum is used by hackers for training, communications, collaboration, recruitment, commerce and even social interaction. Commercially, this forum serves as a marketplace for selling of stolen data and attack software. The chat rooms are filled with technical subjects ranging from advice on attack planning to solicitations for help with specific campaigns."
The word 'hacker' (Score:3, Insightful)
you're using it wrong.
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Actually it looks like you still haven't done it. Better luck in the next 12 years.
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Im not buying what they are selling.
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Take a look through the pdf, you'll find the forum in question in one of the screenshots that they forgot (intentional?) to scrub
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I believe it is http://www.hackforums.net/ [hackforums.net]
The screen shots match the forum theme.
Another way find the sites they looked at is by googling sentences from the screen shots.
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What is the "negative racial connotation" of the word "cracker"?
I always thought "cracker" referred to a dumb racist, usually Southern.
I'm not sure being a dumb racist is considered a negative in America.
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Umm, you're quite mistaken. It's a much more general racial slur that's often directed at any white person or people, regardless of where they come from and regardless of their opinions of other races.
It's quite often used in predominantly black and Hispanic areas of cities like N.Y.C, L.A. and D.C., where it's often directed at white police officers, white public school teachers, white social workers, and other white people who are often among the most tolerant and supportive of other races.
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It's quite often used in predominantly black and Hispanic areas of cities like N.Y.C, L.A. and D.C., where it's often directed at white police officers, white public school teachers, white social workers, and other white people who are often among the most tolerant and supportive of other races.
You sure there Sparky?
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What is the "negative racial connotation" of the word "cracker"? I always thought "cracker" referred to a dumb racist, usually Southern.
A racially charged epithet which is used to refer to a group of people who use racially charged epithets, you don't see any irony there?
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You do realize why the mass media does not use the term "cracker", right?
I don't think 'cracker' is the best word Slashdot could have used here. 'Cyber-criminal', perhaps.
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Really? Even though that's THE FUCKING TERM!?!?! /endpsychoticrage
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Really? Even though that's THE FUCKING TERM!?!?! /endpsychoticrage
Their activities may have involved cracking, but that's like calling a bank robber a drill operator.
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My point rather was that the use of the term has nothing to do with /., but goes back to before /. existed. Trust me, you don't want /. collectively coining new terms--it'll all be n****r-this and nazi-that.
Re:The word 'hacker' (Score:5, Informative)
you're using it wrong.
I've pretty much given up on it. You can't blame /., it's the Medi-uh who have tarred Hackers with by association with Crackers and criminals.
You start explaining the difference between the two to anyone and they'll think you're some kinda weirdo. You're in luck if their eyes simply glaze over rather than they go call DHS and report you as some sort of undesirable.
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I do consider myself a hacker in the original non-criminal use of the word.
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Technomancer?
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I nominate the word cracker. It's not being used. Well not THAT way.
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I propose "slacker"! Just kidding, I started out with this stuff on os-9. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS-9/ [wikipedia.org] (actually, before that but that was and has been one of my most favorite OS's of all time) I bet a few remember that OS, it was one of the few at the time that was re-entrant.
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I remember OS-9 quite well.
Yes, it's hard to forget. What I remember most is the seamless and elegant way it integrated into mixed Windows and Mac networks. And then broke them.
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Perhaps it is time for true hackers, in the original non-criminal sense, to come up with a new word to describe themselves. I do consider myself a hacker in the original non-criminal use of the word.
Tinkerer-nerd? Fiddler-geek? Aspie-mechanic?
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No, they aren't. (Score:5, Insightful)
In the first place, the meaning of a word is its use. Using "hacker" to mean people who bypass computer security to steal data or sabotage systems has been the overwhelmingly dominant use of the expression for thirty years, well-established in journalism and entertainment. I've read the essays by RMS and ESR describing the "hacker ethic", and I've read Steven Levy's "Hackers", and those are literally the only places I've ever seen "hacker" used with the positive meaning of unorthodox, enthusiastic, and highly skilled programmers, aside from the occasional references to RMS, ESR, and Levy, to complain about the prevailing usage of the term
Second, even from those accounts of the early history of programming at MIT, it was clear that "hacker" had an ambiguous meaning, at best. As I recall, Levy describes "hack" as a slang term in general use at MIT, to mean a clever and well-executed prank, such as disassembling a car and reassembling it in the owner's room. The MIT hackers were notorious for ignoring inconvenient rules governing computer access; Levy mentions how many of them took correspondence courses on locksmithing, so they could bypass locked doors.
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Re:No, they aren't. (Score:5, Informative)
The term "hacker" was coined long before computers and had nothing to do with sabotage or bypassing computer security.
Indeed. Unfortunately, the way language works, the popular usage gets dibs. See Oxford's and how they update it every year.
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Just like poor old Mr Decimate. For eons he was 90% of his former self, now he's pretty much destroyed.
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The term "hacker" was coined long before computers... The term referred to the activities of people who were curious about the inner workings of devices and not satisfied with assuming a device was functioning to its full potential because a manufacturer told them so.
Can you show me a usage of the word "hacker" in your sense from before, let's say, 1950?
Of course you're right that the term "hacker" existed before computers; it's just that the various meanings were related to lumber and agriculture rather than opening toasters, as far as I'm aware.
I'd be delighted to be corrected, though.
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http://tmrc.mit.edu/hackers-ref.html
You misunderstand. I don't want to see more people on the Internet claiming "hacker originally meant people who disassembled their appliances, long before computers were invented". I know there are plenty of people claiming that, not least on Slashdot, but I've never seen any evidence. I was asking for a reference to an actual primary source published before 1950 using that sense of "hacker". Google Books makes this kind of research a lot easier than it used to be, but personally I've had no luck turning up
Re:References to Early MIT sense (Score:2)
Okay, here are at least some closer links.
Starting here: http://oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/appb.html [oreilly.com]
1. "In 1990 the MIT Museum put together a journal documenting the hacking phenomenon." (Aka, not just 'someone on the internet but MIT producing their own journal.)
2. "The first self-described computer hackers of the 1960s MIT campus originated from a late 1950s student group called the Tech Model Railroad Club. A tight clique within the club was the Signals and Power (S&P) Committee-the group behind th
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Hmm. According to that reference, the term "bubbled up as popular item of student jargon in the early 1950s", which seems to imply that it didn't exist before 1950 rather than that it had long currency before that. And, again, it doesn't cite any primary references.
Still, I'm sure that if the MIT sense was in use before the TMRC, some enterprising geek will eventually find an occurrence on Google Books sooner or later. I searched Popular Mechanics back to 1905 (you'd think that they'd be using it if anyone
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I've read the essays by RMS and ESR describing the "hacker ethic", and I've read Steven Levy's "Hackers", and those are literally the only places I've ever seen "hacker" used with the positive meaning of unorthodox, enthusiastic, and highly skilled programmers, aside from the occasional references to RMS, ESR, and Levy, to complain about the prevailing usage of the term
The positive definition of the word "hacker" is in wide use in the new DIY community, and I've seen it in Make [makezine.com] and of course BoingBoing [boingboing.net]. It's still in wide use in the subculture that it applies to. Personally I think the media has been getting (slowly) better as well, with the occasional story about hackers that isn't in the negative sense.
Normally I'm a strong supporter of dynamic language, where words mean what they're accepted to mean; I'm just emotionally attached to this particular word and it's hard t
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Is this some attempt at meta humor, a joke about not knowing the definition of irony?
Or are you one of those people who think dictionaries define the meaning of words?
Irony is a (slightly) different case -- while yes, there is the popular meaning of irony in its usage, that doesn't change the fact that the term has a TECHNICAL meaning (just as resistance has a technical meaning in the field of electronics that is quite different from its meaning in other contexts) that is still well defined. The use of a w
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well it used to be that selling phone network cracking devices was an OK way to finance your computer company which sues people who hack their sw to run on white box machines.
so 30 years ago there was no difference between hacker and a cracker. there still isn't, the context is what makes it "bad" or "good", and even that depends on who the viewer to the situation is.
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I've read the essays by RMS and ESR describing the "hacker ethic", and I've read Steven Levy's "Hackers", and those are literally the only places I've ever seen "hacker" used with the positive meaning of unorthodox, enthusiastic, and highly skilled programmers
You must be new here.
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Re:The word 'hacker' (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly! Words never change meaning, as we all know!
I'm sure you'll also support my quest against people who use the wrong definition of undertaker (originally meant entrepreneur, not this bastardised meaning of the funeral guy!, and doctor (what as we all know really means teacher, not medical doctor!). I'm always the first to correct people whenever they use the wrong definitions of these words. Long live the originalists!
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Exactly! Words never change meaning, as we all know!
I'm sure you'll also support my quest against people who use the wrong definition of undertaker (originally meant entrepreneur, not this bastardised meaning of the funeral guy!, and doctor (what as we all know really means teacher, not medical doctor!). I'm always the first to correct people whenever they use the wrong definitions of these words. Long live the originalists!
A word of warning - if you talk about "throwing a faggot on the fire", be very careful who's within earshot.
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Exactly! Words never change meaning, as we all know!
I'm sure you'll also support my quest against people who use the wrong definition of undertaker (originally meant entrepreneur, not this bastardised meaning of the funeral guy!, and doctor (what as we all know really means teacher, not medical doctor!). I'm always the first to correct people whenever they use the wrong definitions of these words. Long live the originalists!
A word of warning - if you talk about "throwing a faggot on the fire", be very careful who's within earshot.
I am sure that would be an aw[e]ful sight to see. It might even be terr[or]ific! Fortunately those who know about spelling might be able to help because they... well, know how to cast the spell (how else could they write!) to fix these things. Now that I cast my mind back, there might be something else relevant there, but I cannot be sure. What's so wrong with being full of awe, anyway? It's not as if going either way is going to make much difference.
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Your LOGOS will not work here! We know too well the ways of the Farce,
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You are incredible. I don't believe you.
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A word of warning - if you talk about "throwing a faggot on the fire", be very careful who's within earshot.
I had a couple of faggots for dinner last night. Delicious with mashed potato, gravy and peas.
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I like to smoke a fag to destress. I feel positively gay afterwards.
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There difference is that there are still numerous professionals who will stand by the old definition of the word "hacker" because it is a common term for them.
The general public calls plasma "blood". Should we tell the doctors to give up correcting people on this because hey, words change meaning?
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There difference is that there are still numerous professionals who will stand by the old definition of the word "hacker" because it is a common term for them.
I'm one of those numerous professionals, and I recognise that the word hacker has multiple meanings, dependant on context. The problem is that the OP was trying to deny a perfectly valid, and widely accepted definition.
The general public calls plasma "blood".
It does? That's a new on on me. I've never heard someone call plasma, blood before.
Should w
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The general public calls plasma "blood"
The general public calls the mixture of red stuff that comes out of a joint of meat or a cut on your finger "blood" because that's what it is. Plasma is a colourless liquid constituent of blood.
Your criticism is like saying that we should call beer "water" because that's what it is mostly made of.
The nice thing about originalists... (Score:1)
Is when you call them a Douche, you know they understand how you truly feel.
Re:The word 'hacker' (Score:5, Insightful)
I entirely agree: I keep telling people that it means "an implement for hacking, chopping wood, or breaking up earth", as it has done since the 1400s, but there's always some twat whining that it's got something to do with computer programming. Don't these people know that once a word is coined, its meaning is set in stone for eternity?
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I realise that we can't use "thief" because these people are just copying electronic information, rather than depriving the original 'owners' of any physical 'property'.
Social Interaction? (Score:2)
Re:Social Interaction? (Score:5, Funny)
You mean hackers get dates there?
They try .. all those love letters to Darth Vader, Mal and Tom Servo come back unopened...
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Hackers have been getting dates longer than there have been computers around...
Go look up hot rodders... They were probably the most sought after hackers for a date in their day.. even today they are still sought after by alot of women..
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Go look up hot rodders... They were probably the most sought after hackers for a date in their day.. even today they are still sought after by alot of women..
Yeah, if there's one thing that turns chicks on it's men who are obsessed with cars and customising them for enhanced performance.
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I Think I Feel Uncomfortable About This (Score:2)
One sympathizes.
And what is this data good for? (Score:2)
Most people on those forums are noob scriptkiddies anyway.
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the pie chart? it's an advertisement for imperva.
"Imperva offers award-winning database and application security, reporting and audit solutions for organizations across the globe"
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possible wiretapping (Score:1)
I wonder how all of these conversations were recorded. If it was a 'public' forum, that would be ok.
If, however, they used false identities, masqueraded as other forum members, or outright tapped the communications going to the servers, then those gathering the information were in violation of several laws. Did they violate the server or forum EULA and TOS? Did they inform those conversing that the conversations were being recorded?
Is it fine when corporate entities do it for the purpose of profit, and only
Hackers (Score:1)
h#XXors! (Score:2)
d1D %heY +alk l3ke +h1$??????
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|\|oh 7}{3y |)!|) |\|oh7!
not l33t enough (Score:2)
Aww, it doesn't look like they analyzed how many of them actually typed in proper English.
Here's the analysis: (Score:2)
Most conversations start about a particular tech topic, then quickly diverge into arguments about Monty Python, Apple, Microsoft, Star Trek, The Force, Imagine a Beowulf of those, All your base belong to us, Good luck with that, It's a Trap, What could possibly go wrong, Move out of your parents basement, Yeah right, you have a girlfriend, Get off my lawn, and Dupe!
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That sounds more like Slashdot, which I'm sure is the joke. :)
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Most conversations start about a particular tech topic, then quickly diverge into arguments about Monty Python, Apple, Microsoft, Star Trek, The Force, Imagine a Beowulf of those, All your base belong to us, Good luck with that, It's a Trap, What could possibly go wrong, Move out of your parents basement, Yeah right, you have a girlfriend, Get off my lawn, and Dupe!
You mean all those conversations were extracted from /.?
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I see you've been here a while. Well done, sir!
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The forum in question is... (Score:1)
Judging by the user base and the sections listed in the analysis, Hack Forums. Yes, the name is a bit too revealing, but that's the internet for you.