Duplicating Your Housekeys, From a Distance 287
Roland Piquepaille writes "Some clever computer scientists at UC San Diego (UCSD) have developed a software that can perform key duplication with just a picture of the key — taken from up to 200 feet. One of the researchers said 'we built our key duplication software system to show people that their keys are not inherently secret.' He added that on sites like Flickr, you can find many photos of people's keys that can be used to easily make duplicates. Apparently, some people are blurring 'numbers on their credit cards and driver's licenses before putting those photos on-line,' but not their keys. This software project is quite interesting, but don't be too afraid. I don't think that many of you put a photo of their keys online — with their addresses." I wonder when I'll be able to order more ordinary duplicate keys by emailing in a couple of photos.
wow (Score:5, Funny)
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I guess I should have stopped at the first line.
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Worst. Pun. Ever.
Yeah. I hate when people make "Sto-Vo-Kor" puns!
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You know, they can clone you from DNA, no need for a photo.
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I think my wife and the police would notice the age difference.
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Why clone an anus when there is already an unlimited supply of assholes?
Interesting but pointless (Score:4, Insightful)
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I'm sure a stalker could get get all except for 'method of duplicating key with picture accurately enough to be of use' without much work, now if the they happen to be reading slashdot today...
Re:Interesting but pointless (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.boingboing.net/2005/06/25/locksmith-makes-key-.html
A lesser anecdote (Score:2)
I had a car key that snapped in half in my hand once. The locksmith who showed up looked at the two pieces of the key, wrote down a series of numbers indicating the pin depth, and then hand-ground a key from those numbers using the grinder wheel in his van.
Not as cool sounding as using an X-Ray, but the exact same principle. From sight of the key, he made a new key.
Re:Interesting but pointless (Score:5, Interesting)
Not quite. Depending on the key, of course, all you need to do is get the code and figure out the style. Then you could get replacements sent to you from the manufacturer.
In fact, some keys (I'm talking to you, cheap schlage locks) print the key code ON THE KEY, so you wouldn't even need to do any kind of fitting if the photo happened to be of the right side.
But, of course, why bother having a particularly secure lock, when your all-metal steel-bolted door is right next to a 6 foot plate-glass bay window?
Re:Interesting but pointless (Score:5, Funny)
But, of course, why bother having a particularly secure lock, when your all-metal steel-bolted door is right next to a 6 foot plate-glass bay window?
For some new houses use a utility knife cut thru the vinyl siding, foam sheeting, and kick thru the drywall for easy access.
Re:Interesting but pointless (Score:5, Interesting)
Variations on that method would work on most frame houses built during the last fifty years but burglars still attack doors and windows. This, of course, is because most are remarkably stupid (intelligent criminals go into politics).
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What? If what?? Don't leave us hanging, NO CARRIER man!!
(CAPTCHA is dramatic.)
Re:Interesting but pointless (Score:4, Informative)
How much more wrong could you be? Got an enemy? Drink in the same bars? Got a camera phone? ... is the idea sinking in?
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Yes, but we're talking about someone that might rather like to take your new tv, or perhaps pour a bit of water inside it and not get caught.
Re:Interesting but pointless (Score:4, Interesting)
It's a lot easier to steal shit if no one has any idea you were there in the first place.
Neighbor: "db32's on vacation... what are you doing here?"
Thief: "Oh, he gave me a key to watch the house, see?"
Neighbor: "Oh, alright then."
Thief proceeds to park in the garage, load up car with everything, and leave, with days (or weeks) of lead time to unload stolen goods.
It's not a bad idea to keep your keys from being photographed. People will use a much more difficult way of breaking in if it gives them a better chance of not getting caught.
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This wouldn't work for picking someone at random.
However, if you wanted the keys to a specific place, it sounds like it would be entirely feasible to do a little targeted surveillance and get your key.
Still, demonstrating that you can do it means someone will find a r
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I don't rate this as 'zomg the l337 key haxx on my doorz' but for those with evil intent it is a security risk.
People assume a fancy lock and solid door ensure security. People also assume someone with a key to open a door generally belongs there. If I wanted to commit a 'broad daylight' crime this would greatly simplify things.
Heck, if a cop shows up and you've got a working key and a reasonable excuse you're pretty likely to be left alone.
Broad daylight crimes (Score:4, Interesting)
I've seen it done. Thieves backed a truck up to one of the homes in my neighborhood, opened the garage door, wheeled out the appliances and left.
I saw it happen as did several other neighbors, but it was one of the showhomes the builder was trying to sell and we figured that they buyer probably wanted a different appliance option and they were just going to switch them out. In retrospect they probably went into the home when it was showing on the weekend and left a window unlatched.
They did it on a weekday afternoon, broad daylight and wearing somewhat matching uniforms and they just blended in.
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This might be pretty pointless with someone's home. But I can think of several instances in which having access to certain facilities using a key will prevent the suspicion of bystanders by making it appear that your access is authorized.
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Cameras are going to be equipped with Geo-Tagging in the not so distant future (some already are)... unsuspecting individuals won't realize that when they upload a photo with all the meta data intact that it will be possible to extract their location and possibly address.
Still you are correct, even with this it will be rare occurrence: a picture with keys visible, geo-tagging intact and you happen to be at the location where the key is useful.
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It seems to me that the number of incidences where this could possibly be an issue is astronomically slim. Need picture of key, need to know where the key goes, and need the method of duplicating key with picture accurately enough to be of use. Then there has to be a pretty impresive reason why any of the other less complicated and faster ways of breaking in wouldn't be useful.
I dunno, i have a 10 Megapixel SLR camera with a telephoto lens that says otherwise. I could take 20 pictures of you in 3.1 seconds, and zoomed in, with ten megapixels to work with, i could get a good photo of your keys. Sitting in a car on your street doing this, i'd have no problem figuring out where the keys go.
-Taylor
Bump keys more practical (Score:5, Informative)
The keys in the pic seem to be the crappy "2-D" sort that are vulnerable to "bump keys".
It'll be much easier to just make a bump key and use it to break in covertly, than to bother making the "same key". Google for bump key videos.
You'd probably need better pics to make duplicates of those "3-D" keys - those with wedges and so on.
Re:Bump keys more practical (Score:5, Interesting)
Chubb (the venerable English lock maker) actually has a prison lock where part of its construction is to make it resistant to eyeballing by inmates, so they can't memorize the cuts on it and create a copy with sheet metal or another source.
Other than that, a few keys that are eyeball resistant that come to mind are the Shlage Primus, and the Medeco3 key, because someone would have to eyeball the slider, the pin depth cuts, and the angles of the cuts for the pins to rotate.
Re:Bump keys more practical (Score:4, Informative)
While it's true you can't "bump" Medeco3 locks and you can't "eyeball" them easily, the photo thing works (I'm not sure but the Shlage Primus looks vulnerable too). http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/08/medeco-locks-cr.html [wired.com]
I wonder how easy it is to copy the Abloy style keys.
New abloy key: http://www.abloyusa.com/images/execkey.gif [abloyusa.com]
Old: http://www.abloyusa.com/images/classickey.gif [abloyusa.com]
I'm guessing that for the classic key there's a small set of possible angles. If that's true you should be able to easily copy it from a photo (if you can see enough of the angles).
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Disklock Pros are rather hard to copy.
Taking eyeballing out of the picture - even if you have the code for the key on hand, your first problem is getting a blank.
Blanks are restricted, but even if you manage to get your hands on them, they're pre-cut at the abloy factory [usually 2 pins] depending on your account with them - to prevent locksmiths with less scruples than others cutting abloys.
Then of course, there's the machine to cut them. Even if you're filing by hand, the tolerances are fine, and the key
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true but having a key would be a clean, easy, covert break in. It would be easy to get a picture of the key if you think about it, and knowing where it goes. The only thing is how easy and cost effective this technology would be. I still think it's kinda cool, but scary.
Think about it and it's actually pretty simple. Let's say you have a burglar who wants to rob a particular house (or group of same). They're probably going to case the neighbourhood beforehand anyways and many of them will use a camera to get specific shots as memory aids. 200 feet away from a front door provides many areas of cover and a telephoto lens could provide the optical accuracy.
Throw in the fact that many (most?) insurance companies won't pay out in the case of a break-in without signs of forcef
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Right. Which is why db32 up there was rather intuitive when he said this:
Then there has to be a pretty impressive reason why any of the other less complicated and faster ways of breaking in wouldn't be useful.
Bump keys (Score:4, Insightful)
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This is what Assa-Abloy's Cliq technology is for. The cylinder has a small chip which gets power from a battery on the key, and if the key is correct (it uses a challenge/response system to validate the key's serial number), it will retract a small solenoid. The rest of the cylinder is mechanical with the same pick resistance as the line its in, be it Abloy Protech, Mul T Lock, or Medeco.
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Hopefully your key never runs low on juice when it's raining out...
Not really that hard (Score:2)
People put photos of their keys online? (Score:5, Insightful)
The mind boggles.
Re:People put photos of their keys online? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Especially amusing is that they almost certainly use a reversible blurring algorithm.
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Doesn't anyone remember this one?:
Diebold key reproduced from key: http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/06/1627220 [slashdot.org]
The real astounding thing about the Diebold key that he probably didn't realize was that he likely didn't need to duplicate the key, but rather need only look through his junk drawer. I'm a locksmith, and I can tell just from looking at the picture of the key that it's a National C415A. This is probably the most common cheap cam lock key in the US. The steel drawers in my service truck came keyed to C415A.
As the saying goes... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Indeed; I'd rather they took a picture of my key with a telephoto lens and got in that way than to have them break a window. Unfortunately, thieves are lazy or they'd get a job and it's a hell of a lot asier to break a window or use a crowbar on the door than to go to the trouble of photographing your key.
That's one thing I hate about my car - the goddamn "open trunk" button. Previous cars I'd leave the doors unlocked and nothing of value inside, and windows down if the weather permitted (because thieves ar
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My car ('03 Sentra) has a lever inside the trunk by the lock. When flipped down, the electronic trunk release no longer functions, and you must use the key lock to open the trunk. Maybe yours does, too; have you looked?
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Two words: wire cutters
Problem solved.
Layne
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The open trunk is kinda handy... but I've taken to using my trunk as a "hidden from view" place, rather than a secure lockbox. The main thing you don't want to do is give someone a reason to think there is anything in the trunk... don't put your laptop in the trunk when you pull up to the restaurant, put it in before you leave to go there. Don't leave valuable stuff in there overnight if you aren't parking in a garage.
And if it really bothers you? Those trunk things are all actuated by a physical wire to
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Locks are to keep honest people out.
And drunks, or people who are just plain stupid. It doesn't work on someone smart enough, but it usually doesn't need to.
Random story:
I lived with my Grandmother for a few years, and I got into an argument with her about locking the screen door. I wanted to know what kind of criminal existed that would be able to tackle the massive heavy dead bolted door, but be completely stymied by the screen door where you could simply rip open the screen and unlock. Even more amusi
Who? (Score:4, Funny)
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It's not so much holding the cards/keys, it's taking a picture where that's accidentally in the frame, and in fairly readable view. For an example, let's say you're selling something on eBay (insert obligatory Police Squad! joke here). It's not something that their stock pictures will cover, so you need to take a picture of it. Let's also assume that you don't have a photo studio handy, nor do you have an area of your house/apartment specially designed with a stage and neutral backdrop on which to take p
Eyeballing my Cadillac (Score:5, Interesting)
Duplicating keys from an X-Ray (Score:4, Interesting)
That's nothing! On the Discovery Health channel there was a story about a man that swallowed his friend's car key. They were too drunk to drive home and he wanted to prevent his friend from driving while drunk. To make a long story short, the spare key was lost and they they were able to make duplicate keys from an X-Ray that clearly showed the key.
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A friend of mine during college used the same technique to duplicate a master key that fit most of the doors in our (somewhat small) school. He's always been an interesting character, though. That was several years ago and today he's a sysadmin but on the weekends he practices blacksmithing.
oh yeah? That's nothing! (Score:2)
Once I locked myself out of my DeLorean, and the locksmith was able to make a copy of the key using only two pieces of wood, a knitting needle, and a half gram of coke.
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Re:Eyeballing my Cadillac (Score:4, Informative)
Try that on any '90s/early 2000s Cadillac. You can probably successfully break the window motor or wires, but you won't be getting the door open. The lock mechanism is low, and forward in the doors, slides horizontally, and is behind a metal bar. It's not like the typical car lock which is an actuated metal rod near the top back corner of the door. You would have to know exactly what the inside of the door looked like, and have bends in exactly the right spots on the tool to get the door open, and you'd have to get lucky that you don't short something.
It only takes a couple minutes to file some notches in brass. Probably less time than it takes to slim jim a Cadillac. And I know if I had the skills to eyeball something like that I'd show it off every chance I got.
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Do it the easy way.
Go to Home Depot and buy a long, skinny steel tape (it's a flat piece of metal).
Bring the tape and pliers to a car. Look through the window, see where the big lock button is. Usually next to the handle.
Shape the tape with the pliers, slide the tape in through the back of the window, grab the lock button with the bent end of the tape, and pull.
Bingo.
I did that once, in snow, with an old T-square and a leatherman tool, and got into my pickup truck to get my keys back. It only took about ten
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It's even easier than that. There is a tool that looks like a pair of pliers that you put the key blank into, set the depth, and squeeze to cut the key for that pin. The tool is preset with the correct positioning for both the location of the pins and the proper depth of the cuts for that make of car. I know this because I worked as a locksmith for a number of years and used this very technique to open car doors. As long as you have a good vi
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I've never seen a car I couldn't get into with a screwdriver and wire hanger. Ever.
Also consider that car probably only had a dozen or so different keys designs.
Re:Eyeballing my Cadillac (Score:5, Funny)
I call bullshit.
I've had locksmiths get my key out, and they have a flat piece of metal (cops carry them too) that they can slide down where the window goes and have the door open in five seconds. No need whatever to make a key to open it.
Twenty bucks to come out to the car, a buck fifty for a new key. Yet he's going to go to that trouble to make a key?
How fucking stupid do you think we are?
Hello, and welcome to the Post-80s world! This is a brave new place where car doors are designed for this absolutely not to work any longer, even if you could get past all the crap and to the mechanisms. Also, we have this thing called the "internet" where you can see naked pictures. Oh, and Molly Ringwald is no longer hot.
No. We still don't have flying cars.
Fine, go ahead... (Score:5, Funny)
make copies of my keys. Have fun "playing" with my pitbull waiting for you on the other side of the door.
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Does your pitbull like playing with a well swung crowbar? Dogs are not a panacea, especially against someone who knows what he's doing.
Haha, you wouldn't get a chance to swing it. The dog would be on you the moment you opened the door, and once he has a lock on your arm/leg/whatever, all thoughts of swinging said crowbar would leave your mind. I'm not saying dogs are a panacea, but it was a tongue-in-cheek response to the fact that most burglars are deterred by other means of home protection (dogs, guns, security systems, etc.).
Re:Fine, go ahead... (Score:4, Funny)
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Someone who knows what they are doing is a bit more difficult - I speak from experience. I grew up in riding schools, which generally have a lot of very expensive tack sitting in very insecure tackrooms, which often contain a dog. More than once I've seen or heard of an empty tackroom with a d
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Yeah, but dogs and CURTAINS are!!!
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Dog Are all intimidation. If you know what to do they are easy to deal with, yes even your [Mean dog of the day].
It works with Medeco keys too (Score:2, Informative)
You mean like this [wired.com], but from 200 feet away?
It's only a matter of time before Google Maps 0wns your keys.
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Not only that, but they'll be able to tell you where you left them, [flickr.com] too.
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I'd like to see them try with Medeco bi-axial keys
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You'd need a better picture is all. There's nothing magic about angle cuts.
Not really useful or scary, but interesting (Score:4, Informative)
Keys only serve to keep honest people honest. A lock pick and torsion bar can mimic any (average) key anyways.
The story is interesting (on the subject of computer vision) but shouldn't scare anyone.
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Add a hollow "pick" attached to a a can of air. Quite a few cylinder locks will allow turning if all the cylinders are pushed all the way up. Instant $5 master key.
But I'd imagine a crowbar being faster and more reliable, and it doubles as a defensive tool.
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Thats a great interviewing technique you've got there.
Hubble's purpose! (Score:3, Funny)
I have a great idea: use Hubble to get a picture of the key to the universe and ask walmart to make it very cheaply.
Ha! (Score:2, Funny)
A boon for swingers! (Score:5, Funny)
Remember the old days when swingers used to have "key parties?"
For the young and innocent who have never been exposed to such debauchery -- they would get together and throw all the mens' motel room keys in a hat. Then the ladies would pick them out of the hat and go to that key's room....
Well, now the possibilities for adultfriendfinder dot com have just been expanded... Just post a picture of your key and wait for your new friends to show up!
Grinch who stole xmas movie (Score:2)
Despite being quite awful, there's a reference to key parties in the Grinch movie (the remake with Jim Carey, directed by Ron Howard.) As a bunch of Who's enter a who-house for a Christmas party, they all throw their keys into a fishbowl by the window. My kids had no idea why I was laughing my ass off.
I'll believe it when I see it. (Score:5, Funny)
I can't even get those chumps at home depot to give me a copy that works when they're using the original, much less a photograph.
It's far, FAR worse than that... (Score:2)
bad idea (Score:2)
Ordering duplicate keys by sending in a photo is a whole lot less secure than doing it in person. If I go in person to get a duplicate key, I can watch and see that they didn't make a copy for themself, I get the original back right away with the copy, I don't have to tell them where I live, and I can pay cash. If I were to order remotely by photo, they know where I live (either from my shipping address or my
Who needs keys (Score:5, Funny)
The best antitheft device on my car is the manual transmission. ;)
Rock through window (Score:2)
Get a better lock (Score:2)
Most pin tumbler locks (like the one on your front door) are pathetically easy to break using a set of bump keys that you can make yourself or buy online for $10.
If you want real security, you need a high security deadbolt. Breaking a good lock like an Abloy Protec is considerably more difficult. The Protec, for example, doesn't use pins. That means that it can't be bumped and it can't be picked (note that I said it can't be picked, not that it can't be manipulated). The end result is that it takes differen
It will only work "Sometimes". (Score:2, Informative)
2) Most people do not have their original keys anymore. They have 2nd, 3rd, or 4th gener
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Get it close enough, paint the key with a soft paint, let it dry, then stick the key in and try turning it. File off the edges where the paint has been compressed/scratched. Voila!
You don't need an exact copy. You just need a working copy.
Fun prank (Score:2)
Modify your lock with a "duress key" which, when it turns, sprays pepper spray at the person in front of the door (and remains locked). Post a photo of that one.
(using a lock with a core-removal key and then modifying that mechanism might be one place to start; remember you don't actually want the core to come out though)
Seriously, sight-reading keys is nothing new. Ask a locksmith about cutting a new key based on a car key left on the front seat. I'm pretty sure the idea has even been on slashdot before
Summary mentions blurring (Score:2)
Covert Photography (Score:2)
I don't think that many of you put a photo of their keys online -- with their addresses.
Maybe not, but how many of us expose our keys in places where they could be covertly photographed with telephoto lenses and/or cameraphones?
Other applications (Score:2)
I'm very curious as to how far this sort of photometrics can be developed. If you can measure a key well enough to manufacture a duplicate just by viewing a picture with the key in it (not even necessarily a picture *of* they key, just with it in a picture lying there on the table) the capabilities for making precise measurements of complex arrangements of parts aren't that far off. Add the time dimension in, and things get more interesting; instead of having to mount a potentiometer or LVDT or accelerome
Not to mention... (Score:2)
...that you still need the hardware to cut the key blank.
Where does he get his keys made? (Score:2)
When I get a key copy made from the original key, half the time it doesn't work! And it costs more money to drive back to the store to get another one than the copy costs. Grr...
Who needs a picture? (Score:2)
If you think that's creepy, don't worry. It's way easier to get duplicates than taking a photo. My father in law is training to be a locksmith as a retirement hobby, and I'd recently purchased a motorcycle. It was used, and when I got it, it only had the one key. I'm a lazy kind of guy, so I never got around to getting a replacement. I *talked* about getting copies made all the time, but never actually did. Anyhow, my wife sent him the VIN, and a couple weeks later, I got two keys in the mail. Apparently, t
Re:interesting.... (Score:4, Interesting)
I think that a more valuable use of resources would be to recyle the tinfoil sitting on your head.
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Usually the people that break into your house do not have the foresight to plan to this degree.
Then you don't know very many of the people that break into your house.
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If a thug breaks down a door, smashes a window, or takes a chainsaw to a wall for entry, there is an obvious signature of forced entry. One takes a picture of this, and when claiming insurance, will have few problems.
If a lock is picked or bumped, there is no sign of entry, thus an insurance company likely won't pay and probably one will have to obtain their claim in a court of law where they have to prove that the item was there, and it was stolen, not hidden or sequestered somehow.
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Why should the thief care whether or not you are able to collect from your insurance company?
In any case, it is rarely difficult to convince the insurance company that a burglary ocurred regardless of the means of entry. Burglars are not neat and tidy as they search the house for valuables. A few photos of the trashed interior usually suffice.
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More likely. But on the off chance there's a smart thief, it doesn't hurt to keep them mostly out of sight.
A smart thief will want to be able to get in, do his thing, and then leave without leaving a trace, any reason for anyone to get suspicious. The longer it takes to detect someone, the better off they are.
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Ewe muss bee knew hear!
This is slashdot; people will think you lost your bees. Cry havoc and loose the bees of war!