Tracking the Terrorists Online 135
Anti-Globalism points out a story at the German magazine Spiegel profiling two small US companies that monitor terrorist networks online — IntelCenter and SITE Intelgroup. "[Founders of the two companies] Venzke and Devon are two of the most prominent 'terror trackers' worldwide. In the United States, and increasingly in other countries, the term refers to a community of people who spend their days analyzing traces that al-Qaida and affiliated organizations leave behind, especially on the Internet. The two Americans are essentially digital trackers in the age of globalized terrorism. IntelCenter and SITE Intelgroup are the companies that Venzke and Devon, respectively, have founded. They enjoy a strong reputation within the relatively small community of terrorism experts. Beyond that, though, they are virtually unknown ..."
Quote: "Beyond that, though ..." (Score:1, Insightful)
Exactly as it should be.
Imagine a large, popular website that listed people who did some little thing that might fit a "terrorist profile".
Can you say "pandemonium and vigilantism"? Sure. I knew you could.
Re:Quote: "Beyond that, though ..." (Score:4, Insightful)
Can you say "pandemonium and vigilantism"? Sure. I knew you could.
Can you say sued for libel and slander? The government can do practically the same thing by having its secret list and stopping 6 year olds from getting on a plane because they have the same name of an alleged "terrorist".
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Can you say "protected by government that fabricates need a for security and claims it is more important than the long term health of a free society"?
Irrelevant! (Score:2)
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Imagine a large, popular website that listed people who did some little thing that might fit a "terrorist profile".
By some peoples arguments, I MUST be a Terrorist.
EXACTLY! (Score:2)
And that is just not acceptable.
Government Aid (Score:1)
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Something that involves competence, if we're lucky.
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Part of Bush's "terror" industry... (Score:1, Insightful)
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Care to substantiate this (rather bombastic) claim?
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Care to substantiate this (rather b0mbastic) claim?
Fixed that for you.
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Re:Part of Bush's "terror" industry... (Score:4, Informative)
Uh-oh. Here is more... Not only is your "insightful" remark unsubstantiated (you failed to prove it), it is also wrong (I 'm proving it wrong). From the article (I highlighted the most important parts for you):
Katz almost single-handedly uncovered a number of funding sources of Islamists. Katz, a Jew born in Iraq who speaks Arabic, infiltrated Islamist organizations disguised as a Muslim woman -- and wearing recording equipment. She passed her findings on to the authorities. There were court cases, and some organizations were banned. And SITE has certainly been successful. There is a reason Katz has a letter of appreciation from FBI Director Robert S. Muller III hanging on the wall in her office. The company's work has also led to arrests abroad, including those of would-be suicide bombers who had left farewell letters in chat rooms that SITE managed to penetrate.
From the article, again:
Almost every statement by Osama bin Laden published on the Internet, to name only one example, is first made public by SITE and IntelCenter. They find the statements in the confusion of Web sites associated with al-Qaida, and within seconds they have sent the first screen shots to their subscribers. It takes the companies only minutes to summarize bin Laden's speeches and within hours, they will have provided full translations, analysis included. A US magazine was one of their first subscribers. Government agencies in Switzerland and the families of Sept. 11 victims soon followed. SITE was in business. Today this former non-profit organization has been turned into a business enterprise.
Read the article for more... Why wouldn't you? May you die a thousand death by choking on your anti-Bush bile...
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Well, I am not reading Slashdot anymore. Fascists took the thing over and are threatening to choke people and make them die a thousand deaths. Slashdot was the last democratic forum/site on the Internet, now it is dead, ruled by some Psychotic Bush followers.
Probably Slashdot is also "cooperating" and giving our information to the NSA so they can send us to be tortured in Guantanamo, all for the glory of the pathetic and failed American "democracy"...
And the funny thing: the captcha is CENSORS, because Slas
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I concede that here was one claim in that entire article about the prevention an actual terrorist attack. However, there was no evidence that said individuals were actually going to carry out an attack other than the fact that they said something in an online chat room. Everyting else was mostly involved posing as a terrorist onine and seeing if they could someone to say something stupid.
As for the other stuff about summarizing Osama Bin Laden's speeches, that's neat but it's not something any Arabic spe
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Actually, that's plenty... Getting a hint like that is likely to allow prevention of an attack and even of catching the terrorist.
Although you may discount their government customers as directed by the evil Bushitler, the non-governmental agencies, like magazines, clearly, pay them on their own free will...
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"there was no evidence that said individuals were actually going to carry out an attack other than the fact that they said"
So if someone told you they were going to shoot your sorry ass, would you not believe them until they started shooting at you?
memo to pro-Bush (Score:5, Insightful)
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I don't love the waterboarding, but I don't think, it is a big deal. Spying, taking prisoners, and occasionally even lying is what all administrations do... Profiteering? What profiteering? According to the definition [wikipedia.org]:
Re:memo to pro-Bush (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't love the waterboarding, but I don't think, it is a big deal.
And that is the problem. If you now believe that, as a nation, it is entirely normal to torture people, then you you are no longer the nation that you once were, no longer the nation that you think you are, and you are no longer the nation that will be respected elsewhere. Of course, if that is not 'a big deal' then your argument is lost.
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It is not "normal". But waterboarding (a procedure, that leaves no long-lasting damage to the body) a few people is permissible — and always has been throughout history. The only real moral argument against it, is that you may be applying it to the wrong (innocent) guy — the same sole argument against death penalty, BTW.
That's not the case with Bush's administration — not even the harshe
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The assumption of innocence is one of the foundations of due process.
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Only in formally convicting the accused. In extracting intelligence information out of them, you go with the probabilities and their weights (see Mathematical Expectation [wikipedia.org]). One one hand is the waterboarding's unpleasantries (u) with the probability of 1.0, and on the other — certain number of lives (N) with a probability of P.
If the unpleasantry of losing each life is U, you've got the simple formula for when to order waterboarding
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Stop. Right. Here.
Another foundation of due process is that before applying punishment, someone needs to be convicted.
And yes, torture is punishment, as in "inflicting a penalty on, causing pain for some offense".
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not even the harshest of their critics doubts the guilt of the "victims"
I strongly disagree - that might be your view but it is by no means universal. However, being captured in Afghanistan is not, of itself, a crime. You might be correct in what you allege someone is guilty of but, if you are so sure, why not give those individuals their day in court? I believe it is because, without torture, you haven't got a case that would pass legal scrutiny anywhere in the world. And even with torture you haven't got a case but at least you can claim you have information. If you are s
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You are confusing two groups of people:
Even if there are people belonging to both of the groups, neither of the groups is even a complete subset of the other — Khaled Mohammed [wikipedia.org], a "victim" of waterboarding, for example, was captured in Pakistan.
None of the people in
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KSB travelled to Pakistan from Afghanistan in an attempt to evade capture. Fortunately, his security in Pakistan was not as good as it had been in Afghanistan.
Torture of various kinds has been used against those who have been captured in the War on Terror. Waterboarding is only one example. The use of torture, rendition, illegal detention is being used because the USA hasn't got a case that will stand up in court. It matters not whether the individual was detained in Pakistan, Afghanistan or the USA. I
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Hundreds of lives now vs. the hypothetical hundreds torture victims in the future? The answer is very simple...
Yeah, and the answer isn't what you think it is.
There has never been a case where waterboarding resulted in saving lives that were in immediate danger. The whole "ticking time bomb" scenario has never happened and is extremely unlikely to ever happen. Furthermore, even if it did happen the whole "oh you have to verify the words of enthusiastic collaborators too" excuse doesn't apply because if there is a ticking time bomb there is no way to verify until too late.
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You must have heard this since it's been mentioned all over the place, but if you mean "always has been" to include the Germans and Japanese to which we (the U.S.) applied the death penalty after World War II for practicing this kind of torture, then we are in full agreement. We should take the people
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Cato the Elder (Score:1)
Gratias tibi ago!
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I don't love the waterboarding, but I don't think, it is a big deal.
We both know waterboarding isn't the only torture [youtube.com]method going on in these prisons.
Spying on it's citizens, taking prisoners, and lying to start wars is what the Bush administration has been doing
There, fixed that for you.
Once you have any evidence of this administration's "taking bribes or favors" in the above-described manner, be sure to send that evidence to Senator Reed, Congresswoman Pelosi, and other leading opposition figures
A bit difficult, seeing as how they've been shredding(or as they call it, 'losing') all of it the past 8 years. That you come off as completely apathetic and an apologist for this bullshit is downright disturbing.
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That's right. Slashdot has been taken over by the fascists right. How else could such a third grade rant be modded insightful?
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I assure you that Slashdot still remains a stronghold of leftist liberals.
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I see it's up to 5 now. What crap.
It is insightful in one sense. It gives us great insight to the moderators.
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I don't see what's wrong with the GP post, but I think it's amusing that as soon as something that doesn't conform to Slashdot's usual leftist liberal dogma gets modded up, it's suddenly evidence of the "fascist right" taking over the site (which is firmly controlled by leftist liberals).
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I'm not a right-winger, and I don't interpret "moderate" or "less conservative" statements as leftist liberal dogma.
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Isn't the language in this article revealing?
They're talking about PROGRANDA STATEMENTS put out by terrorist groups - which are useless UNLESS they are PUBLICLY disseminated. These guys just read the newspaper. Something MILLIONS of other people do, except those other people are A) BROWN B) MUSLIM C) NOT ZIONIST ENOUGH.
This is just emblematic of the attitude that "it doesn't count", "hasn't been discovered", until a white man has done it, like Christopher Columbus 'discovered' America for the White Man (a
You must be new around here (Score:2)
Your government monitors all your communications on an arbitrary basis [eff.org]
Problems... (Score:5, Insightful)
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I'm as sure as I can be that our founding fathers would be 'terrorists' to the british, some 200+ yrs ago.
it IS highly relative. sometimes a revolution IS needed. and yes, it might require some non-polite actions to shake things up.
what if our current government is in NEED of a re-boot (so to speak)? isn't it our duty to keep the gov on the up-and-up? the gov is mostly broken now and if there was ever a need for a rebirth, its now.
problem is, anyone who, with good intentions, wants to bring about change
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I'm as sure as I can be that our founding fathers would be 'terrorists' to the british, some 200+ yrs ago.
I don't think so at all. The founding fathers engaged in prolonged efforts at fixing the issues within the law by petitions etc. The Declaration of Independence was also a significant difference.
If they had started killing English civilians on English soil in surprise attacks in an undeclared war, hiding their identities, then yes. They published their own names, gave an account of their grievances and their attempts at conciliation (having "a decent respect to the opinions of mankind" which the current
no, no, (Score:2)
Not against the interests of a "country" (which makes no sense); against the interests of the incumbent ruler or their backers! That might be as simple as financial interest, as we have seen time and time again.
The definition already includes activists, dissenters, academics, and so on.
In the end, the birth of an aggressive totalitarian state is, more than any other factor could possibly match, against the interests of America and its citizens. Fix that, will ya?
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You're an economic terrorist because you're running a P2P app! The gov't funds MediaSentry.
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The gov't funds MediaSentry.
Citation needed.
Sure, I think that the *AA is evil, and MediaSentry is bad, but unless you show me how the government funds it, I won't believe you. Sure, the government has managed to screw up enough things to keep our economy lagging behind for the next 70 years with the DMCA and such, but I can't find any information of MediaSentry being funded by the US government. The Chinese government though on the other hand did use MediaSentry.
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It's called jumping to conclusions!
1) gov't would pay for information about terrorists
2) p2p users are terrorists
3) mediasentry tracks down p2p users
therefore, the gov't pays mediasentry for information about p2p users.
Oh, yeah:
4) Profit!
Can't be more obvious than that! :-)
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Honestly, I can't tell if you're ripping off the government, people who hate the government, the RIAA, people who hate the RIAA, conspiracy theorists, or all five.
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Take no responsibility for actions you have no recourse to prevent. If the average American is responsible for any criminal actions of the United States government, so then is the average citizen of the world.
You Terrorist! (Score:2)
Arrest him! Now!
Experts? (Score:5, Insightful)
They enjoy a strong reputation within the relatively small community of terrorism experts
Would those be the experts that have many failures, few successes, and been largely reactionary?
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Know of any others that can do significantly better?
Sometimes the smart choice is to do nothing at all.
Cue apoplexy.
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Would those be the experts that have many failures, few successes, and been largely reactionary?
No, that would be the security-theater experts.
Does Comcast qualify as terrorists? (Score:1, Offtopic)
They've been terrorizing my Internet experience for months now.
shouldn't they remain "unknown"? (Score:1)
Is it true that sometimes there is Too Much Information?
First and foremost, is how can these gentlemen do what they do and be legal? are they law enforcement agents?
Shouldn't they be "unknown"? I mean, if they are to be known, doesn't it make them targets? and/or their jobs that much harder?
Still, I have to admit, I envy them, I wish I could do such a job :)
Wikipedia (Score:1)
Obviously, all you need to do to track terrorists on the web is to datamine their Wikipedia pages.
I found em! (Score:1, Troll)
Right here! [whitehouse.gov]
The real comms are steg layered on photo hosts (Score:1, Interesting)
These guys are just getting the amateurs as they play spy games. But a dollar is a dollar if someone wants to pay you.
Come on... (Score:2)
If the "terrorists" such sneaky internet geniuses, wouldn't they have their own fake honey pots set up to alert them when someone starts getting too diligent in their research?
Duh.... (Score:1)
terÂrorÂism
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.
So... in the world today that leaves us with Al Qaeda and the United States of America.
So having two people found two companies to do this seems pretty logical.
Is there a real story here or were you just trying to fill up some white space.
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1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.
Of course the best terrorists are smart enough to do any violence or threatening themselves, and instead just use the fear created by other terrorists to get their agenda implemented.
The "best" part in using that strategy is that you won't even get recognized as a terrorist by the majority, but instead as a patriot.
"The location of SITE Intelgroup's headquarters... (Score:1)
I am no Terrorist! (Score:1)
Of that I know
The government actually
Really told me so
But there are some others
Who say the rumors are true
I may have blown up
A Lego or two
So now I can't fly
On your fancy jet liners
I just have to walk
To the greasy spoon diners
And wait for that Greyhound
To South Carolina.
IntelCenter's Website (Score:1)
Whether they provide a real service to govt agencies or not, I find peddling terrorist propaganda under the guise of tracking terrorists online as a service to be quit
Find 'Em and Kill 'Em (Score:2)
osama in myspace (Score:1)
News reporters typically talk about computer technology like it's some sort of mystifying science that makes all things scary come to life and chase your children.
How to define a terrorist..and deal with them (Score:1)
Move On. Please. (Score:1)
Hey guys, moveon.org has their own web site; this is /.
Then again...
B.
-- Knocking over more protesters with watercannons by 9 a.m. than most people do all day. --
Give Them an Official Title (Score:3, Funny)
No terrorists online (Score:1)
Tracking May Work! (Score:1)
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Re:This makes me sick... (Score:4, Insightful)
I know what you mean. Especially when the real terrorists are those in the government.
Re:This makes me sick... (Score:5, Insightful)
seeing as how the most popular method of government control has always been to make the people afraid of something so they'll do whatever you want them to, I'd say calling the government the terrorists is extremely insightful. They're the ones inciting and magnifying the terror.
That being said, there'd be a lot less terror if we could take back control of the government. Now if only the sheep would realize this...
Re:This makes me sick... (Score:5, Insightful)
election time! (Score:3, Insightful)
make the people afraid of something so they'll do whatever you want them to,
The quote you're looking for: (Score:2)
"... the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger." -- Hermann Goering
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I think most modern leaders follow that. Very unfortunate, but true.
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I take great offense to that.
Everyone knows that the real terrorists are, in fact, insurance salespeople.
You bet (Score:5, Informative)
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That piece is written with a very strong bias, and I was very disturbed over it until I read other news sources. According to other sources, the police did indeed have a warrant and they confiscated items such as "PVC pipe, chicken wire and duct tape. The RNC Welcoming Committee wanted to lock themselves together in human barricades called ''sleeping dragons.'' Also included in the raids were knives, flammable liquids, five-gallon buckets of urine, homemade caltrops (which are devices used to puncture bus t
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I guess most people use knives, buckets of Urine, flammable liquids, etc. when they exercise their free speech.
These people were punks who probably would feel right at home at any riot. And, BTW, rioting is not free speech.
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And why is it that caltrops are used to puncture BUS tires?
Many large police vehicles are bus based such as mobile command centers, transports for disorder control personnel are based on bus platforms (Blue Bird, Navistar, etc). If these can take out bus tires, then these can take out tires of such 'high value' vehicles as tanker trucks, especially those transporting flammable gases and liquids. If one were to realize the damage that these could cause with their ease of deployment, these are recognized as 'high leverage' (low tech, high impact) devices.
more info: (Score:2)
here. [cryptome.org]
Reading this account it seems that a house was surrounded by heavily armed police, and a resident handcuffed, before a warrant was obtained or shown.
The other accounts describe excessive intimidation.
This kind of thing makes me very glad I don't live in your "free" society.
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Yes, because doing things like blowing yourself in a crowded market place full of civilians is not terrorism at all. It's freedom fighting.
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Oh what, because you think they terrorise people for political gain? The real terrorist were the people hijacking the planes in 9/11. They were the ones who shocked and frightened the nation in the first place. The government, while benefiting politically from this, was also responding to the fear already out there in the public. They would be lousy politicians and lousy leaders if they didn't do something about that fear.
Without knowing exactly what went on inside the heads of the politicians, all I can sa
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OK I'll bite. What does a controversial private security firm contracted by the government have to tell us about the government's intentions?
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Don't worry, when the name looses its appeal, they will make up a new [Devil|Witch|Jew|Nazi|Jap|Commie]. Gotta' have some way to strike up fear and justify war.
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To help make your rhetoric effective, right english good: YOU MEANT LOSE!
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Your a terrorist, you post as AC.
What are you hiding from?
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Agreed, I wish everyone would stop supporting them.
I don't give a crap about 9/11 but the United States still won't come out from cowering under the table. Victory to the terrorists!