Casino Insider Tells (Almost) All About Security 232
An anonymous reader writes "ComputerWorld has up a story on casino security technology, exploring the world of facial recognition technology and various other systems in casinos such as the Bellagio, Treasure Island, and Beau Rivage. Industry veteran Jeff Jonas reveals some of the secret scams he learned from the casino industry such as the infinite hundred dollar bill, the hollowed out chip cup, the palm (trading cards), the specialty code (inserted by rogue programmer into video poker machine) and the cameraman, as well as detailing how casinos strike back against fraudsters and cheats.'"
3rd page (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;270726757;pp;1;fp;4194304;fpid;1 [computerworld.com.au]
Re:3rd page (Score:5, Informative)
Link [networkworld.com]
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Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Not just to get the venue safe (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Not just to get the venue safe (Score:4, Funny)
Although if marbles count as 1 sided dice, I'm open to using those as well.
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No, they have infinite sides (ok, in the ideal sense). We're still working on klein bottle dice.
doh! doh! doh! I mean wahooo! (Score:2)
The point is that people who gamble rarely understand the odds. Those that do understand the odds and the house percentage don't unusually gamble. Or if they gamble then they count cards as well.
Untrue (Score:5, Interesting)
Perhaps I'm reading it wrong, but I don't find this statement to be true.
There are plenty of people who understand the odds, but still love to gamble. To them it's about the thrill of possibly hitting it big. Those who do understand the odds tend to either play games like blackjack which is the only game in the casino which has positive odds, and those who simply walk in with $500 and intends to make it last as long as they can, but know that the chances of them walking out with more than they went in are not in their favor.
I'm not one of them, but then again I get it why others are like this.
The ones that count cards are simply trying to shift the odds in their favor for bigger payouts, and of course really only applies to blackjack (again, the only game with odds not in favor of the casino, but you have to know how to play to get your money).
Re:Untrue (Score:5, Informative)
For reference: http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/house-edge-calculator.html [wizardofodds.com]
That calculates the house's odds. Even if you give every advantage to the player, the house still has the advantage if they are using more than one deck (which is almost always). So even in perfect player conditions, the house still has to be using only one deck for the player to have any advantage.
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Re:Untrue (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Untrue (Score:4, Interesting)
I'd say that's far less than the cost of equivalent entertainment at the movies which would have cost me something like $350 (for me and someone else) just in ticket costs. Factor in that I'm actually ahead $200 and I got a couple hundred dollars worth of drinks, and I'd say it must be the movies I'm doing wrong because half of them weren't worth theater ticket prices.
Re:Untrue (Score:5, Informative)
That is the right way to look at it.
It's the people who say they made $200 "in profit" that drive me nuts. Spending 20 hours to make $200 (which is really $120 after taxes) means you're making less than minimum wage. I guess they don't teach about "opportunity cost" in high school economics any more.
Re:Untrue (Score:4, Insightful)
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Blackjack's statistical advantage relies on two things a) knowing when to perform which action, and b) knowing when to stop.
Beyond card counting, of course.
Re:Untrue (Score:5, Funny)
Counting your money when you're sitting at the table is also frowned upon.
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Re:Untrue (Score:5, Funny)
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Whatever I take into the casino I expect to lose.
Re:Untrue (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Untrue (Score:5, Funny)
Put in a dollar, get out four quarters. 1:1 odds
Layne
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Those are the people who don't unusually(sic) gamble. Although my one instance of gambling (ever) was while I was waiting for a flight at the Reno airport. Stuck a $10 in the slots, got it up to $87, cashed out, then sat bored at the gate for another 45 minutes...
(I'm assuming typo in the GP and that they meant 'usually').
Re:Untrue (Score:5, Informative)
Positive odds is only true if you are counting cards and are good at it. Even if you play blackjack perfectly the casino still has the odds favor. See here [wizardofodds.com].
People who understand odds aren't playing blackjack, but craps. Properly played craps has the lowest house advantage than any other game in the casino. Plus it's actually fun! Every time I go to LV I play craps at Casino Royale. It's a crappy casino, but they have the lowest house advantage that I've found. In fact this chart [wizardofodds.com] shows I'm at the right place
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and those who simply walk in with $500 and intends to make it last as long as they can, but know that the chances of them walking out with more than they went in are not in their favor.
I think you are describing the video poker player.
They want just to extend their play as long as possible knowing the strategy for their game. They look at the pay table and can tell they odds right by looking. Knowing that the longer they play the better the odds hitting that big hand. Video poker is a game of skill against the odds.
Re:Untrue (Score:4, Interesting)
You obviously don't understand the odds. As someone else pointed out blackjack has a definite if somewhat small percentage in the house favor. IIRC it's anywhere from 3% to 5% depending on the house rules. The best bet is actually craps. You need a table with a low minimum and a high odds bet ratio on line bets. The odds bet on line bets is the only bet in Vegas that pays out at exactly the odds of winning. The house has an advantage on the initial line bet but that can be minimized by betting the minimum initially and then putting out the maximum odds bet after you have a number. Circus Circus had tables with 10 to 1 odds bets at one time and I've seen 20 to 1 once at one of the smaller casinos but for the most part they're 2 or 3 to 1.
Re:Untrue (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.google.com/search?q=100x+odds [google.com]
That said, most odds are moving to what they call 3-4-5x odds, which allow you to place 3x odds on the 4 and 10, 4x odds on the 5 and 9, and only 3x odds on the 6 and 8. This (a) allows the players to place reasonable odds bets, (b) minimizes the casinos exposure, and (c) most importantly, makes the game easier for the dealers as a full odds bet will always pay 6 times the pass bet. The easier for the dealers, the FASTER the game plays, and the more the casino makes.
If you're not seeing 3-4-5x odds at your favorite casino, it may be coming.
http://www.google.com/search?q=3-4-5x+odd [google.com]
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Or they play Blackjack.
Don't get caught though (Score:2)
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That was quick (Score:5, Funny)
Non /.'ed copy (Score:4, Informative)
One page. (Score:3, Informative)
Biggest Scam (Score:5, Insightful)
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Link (Score:2, Informative)
Skip to Infinite hundred dollar bill (Score:5, Funny)
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May I please have your address ? It's for informational purposes-only. I *promise*.
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Isn't that sort of thing blatantly illegal under the DMCA?
When you get caught by NORA (Score:5, Interesting)
The infinite $100 bill (Score:5, Interesting)
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minimal risk, really... (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, if you RTFA, you'll see that the "infinite $100 bill trick" works by hitting a sequence, and then asking for your $100 bill back. So presuming one of the buttons in the sequence isn't the "play this bet" button, you're not really risking anything. You either get your $100 back and have zero credit on the machine, or you get your $100 bill back and have $100 credit on the machine.
Though I certainly don't have the patience to run around a casino with a $100 bill and try different sequences to try to trip that feature...
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I did RTFA.
And he mentioned vending machines... not slot machines. You can always cash out of a slot machine so of course there's no risk. Not so with a vending machine which may be limited by the amount of money it can refund due to not having enough quarters or having a bug in the programming, which is not much a stretch if one is already hypothesizing that a similar bil
Re:minimal risk, really... (Score:5, Funny)
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If the vending machine eats your money, you can always consume the item dispensed, so technically the worst case scenario is a break-even.
Too bad I've already commented in this one, so I can't dole out a mod point - or I'd give you +1 funny.
Though the smart-assed side of me (really most of me) will point out that generally if a vending machine "eats your money" it means you get nothing. No refund, no credit, no food. But that is still generally a more favorable scenario (from the consumer standpoint) than most anything that goes down in Vegas.
Although realizing that this is a hack for a vending machine leads me to wonder -
what t
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That's true. Assuming the machine reads the bill and credits you $100, you could claim your money in the form of candy bars and potato chips; however, it would be at 1.5 to 6 times markup compared to the grocery store or full size packages. You're also forced to consume more than you normally would eat.
Let's say the machine takes t
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Um, what's the difference between change and single coins? Are you just meaning multiple coins vs. single coins, or some more cryptic meaning?
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Casino security is neat. (Score:5, Interesting)
Note: I spotted that the texas Holdem tables had wide angle cameras just under the lip where you sit. Not low enough to get up-skirt shots, but where they can spot cards being handed. I started looking for it when a friend of mine was told by the pitboss to stop handing $5 chips to his friend. that's when I decided to drop my chips and bend over to pick them up and spot the lenses.
Re:Casino security is neat. (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:Casino security is neat. (Score:5, Informative)
So I made some nice coin on the deal of being a "dork". I need to be a "dork" more often
BTW: notice how casinos only really use Panasonic Commercial Plasmas? it's because the digital signage module plugs into the set's backplane. It's a all in one solution without any additional "crap" run a cat5, plug the set into the network, and it's all done... I can even do a video wall with 12-16 sets without buying a controller as the set's will do it all for me.
Takedown (Score:5, Interesting)
I personally don't play games of chance for money, just Texas Hold'Em where people with poor math skills are a steady income source.
waiting for the MIT movie (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:waiting for the MIT movie (Score:4, Interesting)
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Anyway these days most casinos use several decks together and discard / replace them before all the cards are played in order to make card counting useless. So you're right, the Casinos will enjoy nothing but extra earnings as a result of the movies.
Re:waiting for the MIT movie Counting Cards.. (Score:5, Interesting)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21_(2008_film) [wikipedia.org]
I just a few weeks ago read in a copy of Asian Week how these smart AMERICAN Asians figured out a card counting method and raked in the coin from one or more casinos. Now, we've got hollyweird picking up on this and whitewashing the cast. Amazing the shit hollyweird does to calculate to obtain the best studio ticket intake.
From Wikipedia, from Asian Week and Ben Mezrich (author of the book):
"Casting of Caucasian/Asian
Although the four main characters in Bringing Down the House were Asian-Americans in real life, studio executives have cast mostly white actors to portray them in the film. Ben Mezrich, author of Bringing Down the House, has noted a "stereotypical" casting process on the part of Hollywood.[1] In the book, Mezrich explicitly states that a young Caucasian betting large amounts of money stands out, while a young Asian or other minority would be less conspicuous. Asian Week called the casting a "whitewash," pointing out that if it were African Americans replaced by Caucasians, there would be more vocal protest."
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Re:waiting for the MIT movie (Score:4, Informative)
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The counter measures you speak of involves using more decks for blackjack, I believe 5 is standard. Any disc
Re:waiting for the MIT movie (Score:5, Informative)
The MIT scam was not card counting. Card counting tracks probabilities of cards based on what's been dealt. The technique in the book was knowing exactly what a card in a shuffle would be. If the dealer lets you see the tail card and you get to cut the cards alone and you are skilled enough to cut the cards to count to card you saw and you can track the card count through all the cards and deals and the card is a 'big' card (face or ace) that can affect a hand wildly for better or worse, then you can adjust your bet for that one hand based on you knowing that one card. Most advantageous is when you have tracked a face card and you know you will bust the dealer. It also works better with a team, at least where you can control all nodes at the table. You and the other person can then use the count to force the card to either one of the hands, or the dealer.
This is harder to track than card counting, because you play normally most hands, just bet big (and somewhat out of character, which helped lead to their downfall) every once in a while and win big.
The one thing that struck me most in reading the book is that they really never understood human nature, specifically humans working for the casino. They kept on saying "well, we're not cheating" and expected there to be no problems. You're taking massive amounts of money from casinos - they don't like that. They seemed totally unaware of the dangers they faced, physically.
Re:waiting for the MIT movie (Score:5, Informative)
Re:waiting for the MIT movie (Score:5, Informative)
There is a romantic view of card counting. People assume it's a magical skill you pick up, then can just roll into a casino and use it as a personal ATM overnight.
The truth is, it gives you about a 1% edge over the house. That means that for every $10 you bet, you'll "earn" $0.10. You can get, maybe, 100 hands of Blackjack per hour on a good day.
And the "margin of error" (standard deviation) means that your long-term swings won't balance out until after about 12,000 hands. 120 hours of Blackjack, just to statistically be guaranteed to at least break even.
And all that is assuming you count perfectly, and play perfectly.
So after card counting gets hyped, you'll get a whole ton of people who want the quick win. They'll learn a quick hi/lo system. They won't practice. They won't learn basic strategy perfectly (quick, what's the proper move when you have 44 vs. a dealer's upcard of 5?). And they'll go into the casino. Maybe they'll double up quickly and walk away. More likely they'll just keep playing, have a few drinks, and either make a bit of money, or get frustrated and lose everything, or just play for a while and have fun. But in every case, they'll be playing with a disadvantage. Making a couple mistakes or missing a couple counts, maybe they're playing an even money game, or just 0.5% house edge. If they start steaming and making the big errors, they'll be giving the house 4-5% of their money on every hand.
And for the one in a thousand counter who does a good job and earns 1-2% on her money, they'll be 999 players who give it all back.
If card counting had the ability to destroy the casinos, they'd have been out of business a long time ago. Blackjack is profitable for the casino.
Re:waiting for the MIT movie (Score:5, Interesting)
If you work with a team and the next guy bets BIG, then its hugely in your advantage.
Your numbers are WAY off how multi-person counting works.
Interestingly, I've had dealers help me count before. Doing simple "count the tens" helps your odds on a non-continuous-dealt game, especially if you can get a one or two deck hand dealt. I had a dealer, who was watching me pull back as the tens had largely made their appearances actually told me "you don't want to take this next hit".
She was right.
Re:waiting for the MIT movie (Score:5, Insightful)
No. If you vary your bet according to the count, you get the advantage. You need to be proportionally more as the count goes up, to make up for the small bets you made when the count was down.
Again, close. If you work with a team, then the next guy will not be playing at all during a low count. If you are counting, they you don't vary your bet at all. But when the count goes up, you signal the Big Player to come in. They place a large bet-- something that would seem suspicious if YOU put it down, but is normal for him. He only bets that amount and doesn't vary.
In that case, your advantage is EXACTLY THE SAME (~0.5% per count)-- but the EV will be greater. The more you bet, the more you'll earn, but the rate will be the same. If you have a 1.5% advantage, it doesn't matter if you bet $100 or $10,000. You will only "earn" 1.5% of that.
Uhhhg. Never rely on the dealer. They don't know what they're doing. They're just a flawed gaming machine made of flesh.
No. No it doesn't. It's useless to count the tens unless you are also counting the low cards that balance it. It's useless to know that five 10s have left the deck, unless you know how many low cards have also left the deck. The whole point about counting is to know the estimated composition of the remaining deck.
Example: You are counting the tens. 6 tens come out of the deck. You assume a count of -6, and lower your bet. I am hi/lo. I see those 6 tens come out, and then 12 low cards. I KNOW a count of +6, and raise my bet to take advantage of it. Guess who is coming out on top
And she could just have easily have been wrong. She doesn't know what the next card is. Neither does a counter. A counter just knows the estimated composition of the deck, and can vary their bet or use an "index play". IE: Basic Strategy says 12 vs. 2 is a hit, because that move is the best possible play statistically. But at a count > 0, it becomes stand, because now that move is the bes possible play statistically. That doesn't mean the next card is a 10. It just means that you'll lose less by standing than by hitting.
You cannot point to a single hand and use that as proof for anything. Remember, 12,000 hands is where "long term" begins. Everything else is indistinguishable from luck. If anything, the dealer was taking a blind shot hoping for a tip.
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Except that most casinos won't let you do that any more. New players can only join the game on a new shuffle.
card counting "mules" (Score:3, Interesting)
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So if a casino opens a $10-$100 table, you MIGHT see ~$10/hour from it if you play perfectly. A few mistakes can cost you a good $1 or $2 per hour. Can you imagine doing a mind-numbingly boring job, sitting still for 8 hours a day, for just $10 per hour? Well, probably-- this is Slashdo
even worse in Colorado (Score:2)
Re:waiting for the MIT movie (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:waiting for the MIT movie (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course, there are two reasons the casinos aren't too concerned:
So the casinos just balance the likelyhood of an effective team coming to town vs. the chance that they'll spot them in operation. Then they tally up the amount they'll earn from their tables from bad players. That'll tell them how much it's worth spending on anti-counting training/technology/etc. Why spend $500,000 on a new system to keep someone from earning $250,000 / year off you-- especially if there's only a 0.001% chance that team will come around. The numbers are fudged, but it's all just a numbers game. Somewhere along the lines, someone gets paid a bunch of money to tell them what the numbers are.
NMSE - No Mid-Shoe Entry. Yup, just about all the high-roller tables have that. It's rarer on the mid or low level tables, though, since their bread and butter is unskilled, transient traffic. I've seen a $50-$2500 table that allowed midshoe entry. Let me tell you, seeing people drop $500 a hand on a game they don't know how to play-- that's quite a sight to watch. Maybe I should just open a casino.
This sounds like a Slashvertisement for... (Score:2)
All *I* need to know about Casino Security (Score:2)
Employees rip off casinos more than players (Score:5, Interesting)
There were occasional customers passing counterfeit bills and people screwing with the machines or trying to bend cards but there was a lot more people soiling themselves because they didn't want to get up from their slot machine and people losing their homes because they were addicted (happened to a cousin of mine) or getting kicked off because they started yelling at us when their credit card was maxed out.
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I used to work full time as a musician, and I do know that for most casino shows we did we were paid in cash. And they paid us about halfway through whatever time we were contracted to play so we could spend our breaks donating back our earnings. Wondering if they really to take the same approach wi
It's the same all over (Score:4, Interesting)
My 7-11 had a policy where employees kept <$100 in the register (all $20 bills and up went immediately into the timed safe). We had one employee who "forgot" the policy one particular day, and "coincidentally" that was the same day some "random" guy came in, held him up, and took all the money out of the register -- less than $1K but considerably more than was supposed to be in there. The employee really, seriously thought that the video cameras were going to vindicate him -- "look, there's the guy threatening me, isn't he scary?" As if an armed robbery had ever happened at this suburban 7-11 store before, in all the years it had been in business, up until exactly about three weeks after this clown was hired.
Another guy had been working there for about two days when some kids ran in and, in a flash, stole about six cases of beer. Security cameras showed the employee was nowhere to be found during the robbery. An eyewitness later came forward and said the employee had been standing out in front of the store during the incident, smoking a cigarette.
The smartest guy who ever ripped the place off actually kept his cool and bided his time. He was this Abercrombie and Fitch looking kid who was always all smiles and glad-handing, always ready to agree with the owners, always ready to talk down the other employees. Compared to the rest of the long-haired tweakers who worked at the store, he must have looked like the all-American boy. So they made him manager. About a month later, he walked away from the back office with about $6,000, abandoning his car in the lot.
Even that guy was stupid, though. Like I said, he abandoned his car in the front lot. So a coworker and I broke into it. Rifling his dashboard, we found a court summons. He was scheduled to appear in about two weeks' time on a prior charge. We called the sheriff's department and asked if they could please meet him at his court date at such-and-such time. And guess what? He actually showed up.
But the cops didn't. They showed up about 45 minutes late, by which time the case had already cleared the docket. Better luck next time, huh? So I guess the moral of the story is that there's a reason for stuff like video cameras if you're a business owner. Better grab all the evidence you can possibly get, because you might need it later. If you rely on the cops you could be in for a long wait.
Hollowed-out chip cup? (Score:2, Funny)
For another viewpoint... (Score:2)
Shoplifting deterrant via facial recognition (Score:2)
It's my understanding that when you steal from a store, they ban you from ever returning to the store. I have always assumed that this ban is meaningless because they just don't have the resources to make sure that you don't come back.
But if they really could reliably keep you out of the store forever, would that alone be enough to keep people from shoplifting? A lifetime ban from W
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I sometimes wonder what would happen if a facial recognition system falsely identified you as someone else.
What could you do to counter the identification, especially if that is the only ID they have access to?
Now some people may say that it is 'impossible' for this to happen. But do note that 'impossible' just needs ONE example to the contrary to prove that the theory is wrong.
As a side note, I remember a local case where DNA sampling was used to 'prove' that a person was guilty. According to the paper,
Casino Security isn't a Magical Mysterious Thing (Score:5, Insightful)
Casinos would like you to believe in Ocean's 13 size IT rooms and facial recognition and such. The truth is that most casino security is low-tech (cameras and people). The largest cheating ring that was broken up recently involved a gaming commission, law enforcement, and the casinos themselves busting a partnership between outside cheaters and the employees working at the table. You have to remember, the states view cheating as bilking them out of the exorbitant taxes they get to rake from casinos since casinos are evil like cigarettes and okay to tax at obscene rates.
If some casino is using facial recognition scanning software etc, they probably are just peeing money down a drain. More likely, its hype designed to scare off cheaters. I think its a dumb idea to create this image though.
In Stalin's Russia, there wasn't a dossier on everyone, but the fear of a dossier on everyone was what helped keep the masses in check. Cultivating a fear in casino goers that they are under watch at all times and being scanned isn't in the interest of the big casinos. Casinos are the last place you are free to be free. You can let your hair down, have a politically incorrect drink, and inhale politically incorrect air.
Go to a casino, have fun, and remember that the cameras are more likely watching employees than they are watching you.
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Re:Casino Security isn't a Magical Mysterious Thin (Score:5, Funny)
Shame on you.
Magic slot machine sequence (Score:2)
Admittedly, I've never worked any slot machine projects before, but I would imagine that the function that goes:
if(key1, key2, key3, key4):
jackpot()
would be kindof....obvious.
Anybody wanna shed some insight on how these things are written? Are there some open source slot machines i can poke through somewhere?
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They have several safegaurds to prevent that kind of thing (especially now). I know that it is illegal for anyone involved in the developement/design/testing to enter a casino. I would imagine that they would have code reviews with a variety of people as well.
Also, that Breaking Vegas show was awesome. They did the big well known ones like the MIT team but also
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Is there only ONE guy that develops the software for the slots?
No, there isn't, which I'm sure is obvious and why you asked in the first place. I am an engine programmer for a casino gaming company. We have several different frameworks for various jurisdictions (you wouldn't believe the hoops we have to jump through for certain states regulatory requirements), and everyone on the framework team has their hands in at least parts of all of them. This would make it virtually impossible to hide malicious code in our systems, even if it was well done.
Even if I was a 1
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychic_paper [wikipedia.org]
Re:Video example of a few of the scams. (Score:5, Informative)
Hollowed out chip scam: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dDOMyzmkaA [youtube.com]
Blackjack scams: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Phnkp4R0iJI [youtube.com]
Brass balls blackjack scam: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu9uAaQs-LQ [youtube.com]
There are hundreds more on youtube if you search