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Communications Wireless Networking IT Hardware Technology

WiMax Folded Into 3G 'Family' 40

Posted by Zonk from the one-big-happy dept.
Andrew Donoghue writes "ZDNet UK is reporting that although WiMax and 3G have been battling it out as rival broadband wireless technologies, WiMax has effectively been folded into 3G's future development, after the International Telecommunication Union decided to include it in the IMT-2000 set of standards. 'An auction is to be held next year in which spectrum around the 2.6GHz band -- which is usable for both 3G and mobile WiMax -- will be sold off on a technology-neutral basis. It remains to be seen what the implications of Friday's announcement are for that auction but, as the investments already made in 3G infrastructure had been a major detrimental factor for WiMax, its inclusion in IMT-2000 has the potential to shake up the entire argument.'"
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WiMax Folded Into 3G 'Family' More

WiMax Folded Into 3G 'Family'

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  • Link broken in submission (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 19, 2007 @02:09PM (#21045447)
    Correct link: http://news.zdnet.co.uk/communications/0,1000000085,39290156,00.htm [zdnet.co.uk]
    • Nothing fixes everything, but the USA does not need to fall
      to last place in telecommunications globally.

      LOOK READ THINK ... 1GG2G2.5G3G... is dead-end marketing hype.
      We need to be able to go anyplace in the USA and receive the
      same GDMF QoS that can be obtained at home with an option of
      multiple providers for all (or as selected) media and
      communications products and services. All without swapping a GDMF
      box at home/office or personal phone/PCS.

      For all the BS and DisInfo US Citizens are feed, from the experts
      an
  • What does this mean for the likes of Google, Clearwire, and Sprint? (My understanding is that all 3 are major Wimax players and are bidding, or have licensed, certain frequencies for Wimax).
  • Is there some reason they can't simply deploy dual mode 3G/wimax installations? We have A/B/G wifi... why not 3G/wimax on a chip? The only hurdle I can see is the range interference, but I'm sure they could find a way around that...

    • Important differences.... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by postbigbang ( 761081 ) on Friday October 19, 2007 @02:48PM (#21046035)
      Unlike the two segments that are used for IEEE 802.11b/g and then 802.11a, WiMax can have several modes and several bands to use. A software defined radio might one day be a solution, but WiMax has a long way to go before it'll be used like b/g/a as it's 1) licensed spectra and 2) subject to the whims, fortunes, and insanity of various telcos and 3G providers.

      So a 3G/Wimax chip's not going to do much good for a few years, where a WiFi/3G chip makes sense, except fo the horrid security in WiFi.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by spitek ( 942062 )
        So a 3G/Wimax chip's not going to do much good for a few years, where a WiFi/3G chip makes sense, except fo the horrid security in WiFi.

        Few Years???? Thats simpley wrong, WiMax will be in production in Three major cities in 3-4 months. Than rolling out nation wide by the end of 2008. Also when we say 3G we really should seperate out Edge and EVDO. Edge is slow, everyone agrees. EVDO is already kicking EDGE a new one. WiMax is makes EVDO look like leftovers. 3 Mb in my car, in starbucks(WITH OUT PAYING

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by postbigbang ( 761081 )
          Sorry, I forgot to jump up and down. Yay, rah. Three cities, one vendor, one pilot implementation. It's almost as good as beta testing software. Yummy.

          And I'll bet it's nationwide, like 1xRTT and ev.do. Nationwide by maybe, Sprint?? Their whole program is in question.

          Edge certainly stinks, but at least it's somewhat available, if you can give blood daily, in quarts for it. If and where you can find EV.DO (or even the very rare EV.DOa), it's pricey, also with blood letting, and coverage is at best, mercuria

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by spitek ( 942062 )
            The three cities was more of an example that it is closer than you think than something to jump up and down about. Well unless thats how you get a good signal. Anyway.. :)

            Nationwide by maybe, Sprint?? Their whole program is in question.

            Where you hear that? The media? I question That statement. Anything can happen I give you that. However I'd dismiss those noises at this point. I think it's a lot more than a marketing mans hope. It's definitley that! But what any technology that does preform like WiMa
            • Mmmmmm. One carrier. One that can't straighten their billing systems out.

              Ok, let's say for sake of argument that Sprint gets up a sufficient number of towers to cover what needs to be covered, in say five years. They're a single source. Do you think the cellphone makers are going to make a phone that works with only one non-GSM carrier? That doesn't happen much anymore. It's a bad bet.

              Sprint's PCS and 1xRTT was delightful. And like other short-sighted manuevers it didn't pay for very long. They're still #3,

              • Re: (Score:1)

                by spitek ( 942062 )
                Mmmmmm. One carrier. One that can't straighten their billing systems out. You talking about AT&T?? UPSing There iPhone invoices? But that would be a section with them I do not like either. I also wouldn't have wanted to merge Nextel and Sprint. yuk.

                Firsts are significant, but when you can't turn that into marketshare because your customers hate you, then it's only for the history/record books.

                This is true, true, true. Only time will tell on that one.

                Ask your local Sprint store-- when can I g
                • We largely agree.

                  The bigger problem is that there are no metrics that you can use, like a pint or a joule, to measure broadband usability.

                  If I said that FIOS/Verizon fiber drops typically got forty-two bammos (my extemporaneously named measure of Internet speed/quality/availability), then you might then say that 802.11n is nine bammos, and EV.DO is two bammos, and so on. There are no useful metrics or standards of measure/availability of the resource to compare with. Bandwidth then becomes a dubious denonin

                  • Re: (Score:1)

                    by spitek ( 942062 )
                    But that's not happening. And the telcos could soar if they could figure out the capitalization needed to sell bammos. But they're still stuck in a 1950's mindset

                    So true. That is where I think Sprint is the best, not great but better than ATT... wait Sprint wasn't around in the 50's. Well not really anyway. :)

                    And your point about back haul. The largest actual issue for sure. This is huge and I know non of the providers are even close to being ready from this standpoint. The investment needed for that, wer
                    • Hey, look at the 9th Court of Appeals decision today-- no one rides free now-- they backed the FCC on haul issues. There's no SS9 in Internet relationships, but somebody's going to have to pay to ride telco wires. Let's see how *that* plays out. Imagine: a meter inside every Cisco 7XXX or 12XXX.

          • Re:Important differences.... (Score:4, Interesting)

            by Ryandav ( 5475 ) on Friday October 19, 2007 @04:22PM (#21047551) Homepage Journal
            So, you are completely and totally wrong that WiMAX is some marketing dream. There are significant market deployments of thousands and thousands of people using pre-WiMAX or WiMAX ready gear today, right now, in over 50 cities in the United States alone (http://clearwire.com). There are beta services based on the absolute latest IEEE standard happening overseas in many countries that are already cash-flow positive. There are successful true WiMAX trials happening RIGHT NOW (which means gear is on the poles) in some metropolitan areas that are service large populations as we speak.

            This isn't vaporware, WiMAX is for reals; If you don't realize it's coming down like a freight train on the currently limited choice broadband situation in the US, you're going to be surprised in a year or two.
            • We disagree.

              Significant deployments of perhaps thousands and thousands are not significant in the face of 121million cellphones that don't have WiMax-->IN THE USA TODAY.

              I don't argue that WiMax will come of age. But it's licensed spectra, and it costs money, and people are already familiar with paying money to their cellular/mobile carrier and have not had a strong uptake in broadband replacement technologies because of mobility issues and raw cost.

              It's not a freight train. It's a Volkswagen Diesel. One
            • WiMAX is for reals, the wireless broadband spectrum is about to put the 'only choice' in many markets, cable broadband (which is often abusing its power, I'm looking at you, Comcast!) to some serious competition. The speeds I'm getting on my HSPA (3.5G) AT&T/HTC Tilt are fast enough to rival my Comcast connection on most days, and it's making me reconsider my hardline connection.

              WiMAX has been given a bad name here in the States because Clearwire has taken so long to develop a PC Card, leaving them dea
              • The competition is coming, but not from clearwire; Sprint's Xohm serivce is going to rock Urban markets.

                No contracts, one account per person (unlimited numbers of devices!), and standards-based chipsets than Intel is working in to the next version of Centrino.
          • this is one of the more overrated posts i've seen in a long time, clueless. a company that operates in most major cities? towerstream [towerstream.com]
            We're talking, DC, LA, New York, Boston, Chicago, etc... oh and some of their press releases date back to 2005, that's three years.
          • Sorry, I forgot to jump up and down. Yay, rah. Three cities, one vendor, one pilot implementation. It's almost as good as beta testing software. Yummy.

            And I'll bet it's nationwide, like 1xRTT and ev.do. Nationwide by maybe, Sprint?? Their whole program is in question.

            Edge certainly stinks, but at least it's somewhat available, if you can give blood daily, in quarts for it. If and where you can find EV.DO (or even the very rare EV.DOa), it's pricey, also with blood letting, and coverage is at best, mercurial
            • I'm still dripping blood from my EV.DO (NOT REV A) card (and hideous Verizon rates). My experience is very mixed, but I travel way more than you probably do, 50Kmi+ by air, and at least 10K+ by car in the US. There's EU travel, but I have a handful of nice SIM cards and a separate GSM phone with a bluetooth/EDGE interface for my notebook.

              Sprint's 'launch' is definetly planned by the end of this year. No doubt about it. And they won't have full useful coverage for years. Look at their actual game plan, which

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Troed ( 102527 )
          3 Mb in my car, in starbucks(WITH OUT PAYING THERE RAPING WIFI RATES) or where ever you may be in any populated area of consiquence. By the end of 2008. I know Ill have it as soon as it's available in my area

          Or you could come visit Sweden, where the 3G networks are already upgraded with 7.2Mbit/s HSDPA (14.4Mbit next year, and also increasing the uplink using HSPA) for a flatrate fee of between $13-$26/month.

          Besides the 3G PC-card in my laptop that gives me fast Internet wherever I am, my cell phone also ha

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by spitek ( 942062 )
            Sounds nice.

            The investment necessary from both back haul and site build out point of view for any system, weather you call it 3G, 4G or myInetOvaDeAir it really doesn't matter. 17Mb, sounds sweet, but if every US household had one the back haul network alone would be upwards of 10 Billion or more. Not happening in a country as large as the US any time soon.

            Small area's like Sweden have an advantage when it comes to stuff like this, just like South Korea with their impressive broadband penetration. You co

            • Re: (Score:1)

              by Troed ( 102527 )
              ... which, of course, has no relevance whatsoever with regards to the discussion :) The point is that WiMax does not deliver anything not already delivered with 3G (using HSPA - a "software upgrade") and then LTE for the higher bandwidth and lower cost per bit.

              In the end the WiMax name will probably live on, but as just another nickname for the current cellular technology of the day.

              • Re: (Score:1)

                by spitek ( 942062 )
                3G?? Can we narrow that down a little bit? Edge like AT&T, EVDO? What do you add this software upgrade to and than blamo its the shit? Seriously, I'd like to read about it.

                • Re: (Score:1)

                  by Troed ( 102527 )
                  Brief list of the different networks and how they can evolve. I only list the world wide ones, China and the US have some local standards that aren't that interesting and at least when it comes to the US on their way out.

                  * GSM - GPRS - EDGE - Evolved EDGE ("2G, 2.5G")
                  * UMTS - HSDPA - HSUPA (together they form HSPA) ("3G, 3.5G")
                  * LTE ("3.9G")

                  HSPA is a "software upgrade" (in the sense that you do not build a new network) on top of normal 3G (UMTS). While Edge can reach ~220kbps (and Evolved Edge around ~1Mbps
    • WiMax 802.16 as I understand it would have no functional problems using spread-spectrum frequency-hopping software programmable radio technology. Just search and read "spread-spectrum" "frequency-hopping" "802.16" WiMAX, most of this technology was available a few years ago, but the Telcos & congress .... Yep, could cause the cable carriers to become the WiMAX carriers to the home for TV, Radio, Phone ....

      http://www.mtc.ca.gov/services/arterial_operations/downloads/wireless/Wireless_Overview.pdf [ca.gov]
      http://w [telecoms.gov.bb]
      • Nothing fixes everything, but the USA does not need to fall
        to last place in telecommunications globally.

        LOOK READ THINK ... 1GG2G2.5G3G... is dead-end marketing hype.
        We need to be able to go anyplace in the USA and receive the
        same GDMF QoS that can be obtained at home with an option of
        multiple providers for all (or as selected) media and
        communications products and services. All without swapping a GDMF
        box at home/office or personal phone/PCS.

        For all the BS and DisInfo US Citizens are feed, from the experts
        an

  • Can we just drop the whole "3G" thing? (Score:3, Informative)

    by R2.0 ( 532027 ) on Friday October 19, 2007 @02:28PM (#21045753)
    I mean, it originally stood for "Third Generation", but has taken on a life of it's own, with no real definition. It's like "Web 2.0" - it sounds neat, no one really knows what it's about, but sure as hell the next number is going to be even better!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by nuzak ( 959558 )
      The funny thing is, another name for WiMax that was being commonly slung around was, get ready for it, 4G

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by arivanov ( 12034 )
        Dunno... Both of them seriously suck as scalability for data. O(exp(-N)) scalability or worse (N number of clients per radio site). This is valid for all except the Chinese homebrew 3G variety which can have quite sane capacity models.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by sg3000 ( 87992 ) *
        > The funny thing is, another name for WiMax that was being commonly slung around was, get ready for it, 4G

        It's all marketing after a while.

        Sprint referred to WiMAX as 4G, mostly to differentiate against people like AT&T who are looking to do UMTS and HSPA. GSM's version of 4G mobile is LTE (making HSPA something like 3.5G), while CDMA's version is UMB (formerly EVDO Rev C). So by Sprint calling WiMAX 4G, they make it sound like it's further ahead than CDMA2000 and GSM. It's not much different than M

  • The impact... (Score:5, Funny)

    by ivan256 ( 17499 ) on Friday October 19, 2007 @02:29PM (#21045767)
    The impact of this marketing change on the future of technology journalism are profound.

  • 4G (Score:1)

    by starlabs ( 610056 )
    So, are they going to rename WiMax to 4G now?
  • There is one big difference of WiMaX over upgrades of the 3GPP cellular offers. They aren't upgrades, its more or less a clean slate, and new supplier of WiMaX services can break the strangle hold that existing cellular operators have over the mobile communications market. This is a chance for the consumer to get a better deal, from these new operators. With SiP over WiMaX I'd tell my existing cellular operator to go screw themselves..

    D.
  • As far as I can figure out, all this means is that when a government puts some spectrum up for "3G" services, companies that want to deploy WiMax will be allowed to bid. It's not like equipment is magically going to support all parts of this new "3G"...

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