Big Brother Really Is Watching Us All 405
siddesu writes "The BBC has a nice high-level overview of some technologies for surveillance developed in the US and the UK. 'The US and UK governments are developing increasingly sophisticated gadgets to keep individuals under their surveillance. When it comes to technology, the US is determined to stay ahead of the game ... But it [a through-the wall sensing device in development] will also show whether someone inside a house is looking to harm you, because if they are, their heart rate will be raised. And 10 years from now, the technology will be much smarter. We'll scan a person with one of these things and tell what they're actually thinking.'"
Elevated Heart Rate? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Elevated Heart Rate? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Elevated Heart Rate? (Score:5, Funny)
Fixed!
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You want to create a noisy EM environment cheap? (Score:3, Interesting)
This is when... (Score:5, Funny)
CAUTION: May cook organs/skin during warm weather.
Re:This is when... (Score:5, Funny)
So take off your tinfoil cloths.
As Joe C. would say: (Score:3, Funny)
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Ineffective (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Ineffective (Score:5, Insightful)
And you actually thought it was aimed at terrorism?
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!
Re:Ineffective (Score:5, Insightful)
Its only untrained schmucks like us out here in the "regular Joe Bloggs world" that start pushing lots of red stuff through our hearts when we're about to do something we're not accustomed to (on slashdot, that is equal possibilities, sex or killing... j/k). I'm pretty sure most of us slashdotters have only killed things in videogames and with a fly swatter.
I can guarantee there isn't one among us who would have the ability or training to remain calm while the ninja masked, body armored thug squad is romping through the house, searching for us with the heartbeat monitor... If you can maintain your cool while that is happening, then you should be operating your own assassin for hire business and stop posting on slashdot... you're wasting your time here
As for the rest of us... take deep breaths folks... we've already given them so much leeway to use when they screw us, why stop now?
Re:Ineffective (Score:5, Interesting)
I remember hearing that he had been hit by a cab and was in the hospital for over a week, and in a wheelchair for a while after that. After the cab hit him he got in and requested a ride to the hospital... then limped himself into the lobby and calmly told the nurse that he was seriously damaged.
I am pretty certain that he could off a bus full of preschoolers without flinching.
Re:Ineffective (Score:5, Funny)
'Nurse, I have been hit by a taxi, it is most logical to assume that I am seriously damaged, for example my left anterior cruciate ligaments appear to be FUBARed, to use the popular technical term'.
Seriously though, it's interesting to hear that he apparently does ok - I'd thought pain would be useful in helping people learn from their mistakes.
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The International Olympic Comitty had to ban beta blockers as performance enhancing drugs because (IIRC) athletes in shooting events used it to steady their hands while shooting. I wouldn't be too surprised if I heard that military snipers used it in combat.
Beta blocker block reception of epinephrine (adrenaline) and norepinephrine (noradrenaline). Stops the whole "fight or flight" resp
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Windmill tilting anyone? (Score:3, Funny)
"Clearly they are infringing on my client's religious rights and patented technology."
Re:Ineffective (Score:5, Funny)
Well of course, because they've been tipped off now! Which means the submitter of this article is guilty of treason. Just like the traitors among us who tipped off the terrorists that we were reading everyone's email and listening in on their phone calls.
Now Bin Laden will release some yoga tapes and our intelligence gathering will be back to square one.
I hope they really can read my mind.... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:I hope they really can read my mind.... (Score:5, Funny)
Captain Pike salutes you
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Re:I hope they really can read my mind.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I hope they really can read my mind.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I hope they really can read my mind.... (Score:5, Interesting)
How do you know (Score:3, Funny)
How do you know that telepathy relies on an internal base dictionary?
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Seriously- think of what some liberals might do to their kids: scan their heads for anything religious, racist, or unenvironmental (and punish them accordingly). What a nightmare.
Fits just as well, huh? Really people, grow up and realize these kinds of flaws exist across the political, social and religious spectrum.
Re:I hope they really can read my mind.... (Score:4, Insightful)
The second paragraph may be what you believe, but it does not compute. Education only has a minor influence on these matters: look no further than various forms of Mafias for well-educated, Christian or otherwise religious thugs.
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Do you disagree?
Just like the polygraph (Score:4, Insightful)
I call crap on this. We will be able to detect biometric data. We will not be able to tell "what you're thinking."
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My bet is if they ever really could tell what people are thinking... it would go something like this - FOOD,SEX,FOOD,SEX,FOOD,SEX...
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Re:Just like the polygraph (Score:5, Funny)
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They can do this now, sort of. (Score:4, Interesting)
They can do this now, sort of-Physics. (Score:3, Interesting)
*sigh*
Now I can see why you all think broadband is "unlimited".
In plain English the energy is too small. The attenuation is too great. And no useful device is sensitive enough. Let along the resolution is too poor. And I haven't
Re:They can do this now, sort of. (Score:5, Interesting)
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1) How to get a mu-metal shilding of adequate size in place. Currently these are small cubes in the 10-20 metric ton range. Without them you have massice amounts of jung magnetic fields that prevent reading anything.
2) How to monitor more than one neuron?
3) how to interpret what was monitored?
Seriously, wide-area surveillance this way is impossible. But this technology is usable for torture. All in all you first need to know wh
Re:They can do this now, sort of. (Score:5, Insightful)
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But we may *think* we know what you're thinking (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm inclined to agree that we will no more be able to tell what a person is thinking than a computer can understand what they've written. That may not matter: if we think we can know what a person is thinking, then we may act on it anyway. We already are: Ohio Court Admits Lie Detector Tests As Evidence [slashdot.org].
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Since I don't live in the USA I can stand back and laugh at the idea of a comic book artist selling a mind reading machine to a world famous corrupt and inept FBI beaurocrat - but those who have to live with polygraphs can only be annoyed by the stupid futility of it.
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I thought of a thought criminal detector for airports actually. The idea is on entry to the US you hook people up to an MRI scanner and then show them a quick "America fuck yeah" type montage. Patriotic stuff - cheerleaders and so on. But you cut in news footage that people who hate America will be annoyed by. Like B52s carpet bombing, fighter jets dropping napalm or Mardi Gras parades. Or George Bush flipping the finger to the masses. N
This is the world we live in (Score:2)
Re:Just like the polygraph (Score:4, Insightful)
1) MRI is really hard to do. You can't just throw everyone into one, especially not at airports. It just takes one person forgetting to take off their metal bracers and you have one hell of a mess.
2) FMRI is really hard to do, and still not fine-grained enough to detect any of this.
3) Annoyance is not uncontrolled violence.
4) Last I checked, there's no 'anger' center of the brain, so much as there as section of the brain that controls affect - the prefrontal cortex [wikipedia.org] may have some control over emotional reactions and social setting, but that's part of a greater notion of executive function.
5) Even if you had a way to measure annoyance, I think you'll find that anyone who's being held up at customs after a 20 hour flight so they can watch a video from inside a bizarre machine will be registering pretty highly on the annoy-o-meter no matter what you show them.
6) If you think that terrorists are thinking along the same political lines as we are, only somewhat more to the left, then you're seriously misguided and need to stop watching Fox. (You think that Muslim fundamentalists won't be annoyed by gay rights videos?)
7) If you think a right wing group hasn't already started blowing shit up, then I suggest you have a good think about what terrorist attacks have happened on US soil. The worst was 9/11, and the second was?
The overall idea of the thing is flawed. If my psych major in undergrad taught me one thing (other than statistics), it's that we're extremely complex creatures, with brains that are hard to understand. Political philosophies are some of the most complex systems of abstract thought that we come up with. Deducing them when the opponent is trying to give a different impression is going require something far in advance of the sort of tech we have now.
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This reminds me of my youth in Poland. (Score:5, Interesting)
The Communists claimed to have devices that could read minds to determine one's intentions. Now, we didn't know if this was true or not. But seeing as many of us wanted to live another day, or at the very least not get tortured, we assumed they did.
It seems that the citizenry of the UK and the US are now in a very similar position....
Re:This reminds me of my youth in Poland. (Score:5, Interesting)
And it's funny, I was just in Poland (Krakow) two months ago. The place felt *worlds* more free than NYC or London. Fewer cameras around. No constant babble about how bags are subject to search because of terrorism. Able to buy an intercity train ticket for cash without ID (same went for a domestic plane ticket, though they did glance at my passport when I boarded). Fewer police swarming about, unlike in NYC where they seem to be out in force near Penn Station or driving in cavalcades, lights flashing to an unknown destination.
I love the USA, but Poland definitely has its good points...
-b.
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Re:This reminds me of my youth in Poland. (Score:4, Insightful)
Mind you, there's still plenty to go on about nationwide, but less than 3% of us are subject to the NYC level of, ah, crackdowns.
I suppose you could make some comparison with rural Poland as well, though. Eh.
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DC is just as bad as far as obtrusive police (actually worse), and has just about the population of Krakow.
The domestic flight ID matter is a point, but it's also worth noting that the US is a lot bigger than Poland, so "domestic" flights aren't quiite the same thing. As for intercity rail, I've never tried Amtrak - their web page seems to say you'll need ID -
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I seem to recall that I was asked to present ID last time I bought a Greyhound ticket. I know for certain that passengers are routinely subject to baggage searches, and not just at the initial point of embarkation. Possession of a weapon or any form of alcohol will get you kicked right off a Greyhound bus.
Re:This reminds me of my youth in Poland. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm considering it -- plenty of opportunities in technology and engineering since the country is developing rapidly, and I'm a citizen by parentage so I'd have no problem getting a work permit or establishing a corporation there.
BTW: I never quite understood the sentiment that if someone says that a place has some good points over the USA, they're somehow not worthy of being an American. Having a citizenry that acknowledges its country's faults makes that country a better and stronger place, since they talk about the faults and strive to correct them. Blind acceptance serves no one.
-b.
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It constantly amazes me how democratic governments try to get rid of their legitimation and turn into totalitarian regimes.
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BTW, Poland and Czech were pretty tame as far as the communist regimes went, at least after the mid-1950s. Not like Russia or Romania, where a lot of people just "disappeared" to be sent to labor camps or were shot without trial.
In Poland, some people went to prison, and others became unemployable (and they did send in the Army to crush demonstrations), but the secret police weren't nea
Heart Rate Raised? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd rather the government not base their decision on whether to come in guns blazing on something as ridiculous as whether my heart rate is increased above some theoretical average at the time.
It's just an excuse. Re:Heart Rate Raised? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd rather the government not base their decision on whether to come in guns blazing on something as ridiculous as whether my heart rate is increased...
They will base the decision on your political expression and activism, the other things will simply justify your murder. The elevated heart rate will come when they ask you if you and your children would like some pancakes [rotten.com]. The report will say that they had reason to believe you were armed and dangerous.
Unless the US returns to rule of law, tools used to track individuals will be used to identify, harass, intimidate, disrupt and eliminate opposition. Domestic spying is against the law. Unreasonable search violates the Constitution. It is completely unreasonable for government or industry to keep tables of "gait DNA" and other metrics for people who have not committed crimes. The purpose for this kind of thing is a crime in itself.
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Or they could be justifiably afraid/pissed off that someone is prowling around their place. Could be a cop; could be a burglar after all.
-b.
Big brother is so cliche (Score:5, Funny)
Revolting against over-surveilance (Score:5, Interesting)
The only credible methods I've seen for avoiding surveilance involve actually destroying the surveilance equipment.
The only way to circumvent them is by RF jamming, wire cutting and creating a bright spot around you at all times to flood the camera view - which involves wearing bright LED's or a laser.
Does this mean that eventually there are going to be rogue groups going around and destroying government surveilance equipment? I think so. When you feel you're cornered you do what you have to.
Does this mean that people who are planning terrorist attacks in the future will develop plans to destroy/jam all of the surveilance equipment if they want to get out alive? Definately.
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The more I hear about this garbage, the more I sympathize with the various "militia" groups that were doing their thing in the mid-90s. Shame that McVeigh had to give all of them a bad name by killing civilians senselessly.
-b.
Pay attention to the man BEHIND the curtain (Score:2)
(1) Ignore bogus Nightmare On Elm Street Hollywood-fantasy threats like that the goverment might install cameras everywhere and watch you like a hawk. They won't, and even if they did, it wouldn't matter.
(2) Pay attention to the real threats to your liberty that might sneak under the radar while you're distracted by the bogus threats. Do you wonder, a bit, why the BBC, which wholeheartedly supports as massive and omnipresent a government as po
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but there are two prerequisites for you to be able to do that -- the right to be informed on what the government is up to, and the right to influence decisions of the government -- which basically means no censorship and free elections.
extra surveillance can easily mean the incumbent government will collect enough information on everyone to effecti
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Already happening - see, for example, these pictures [winplc.net] of cuts in closed circuit television cables done in the UK, during a Holiday weekend.
Chicken Joke (Score:5, Funny)
Big Brother: I've seen many chickens cross many roads. Please specify.
Never Resign (Score:4, Interesting)
My face frozen like a thrull,
The roaring of the howling wind
Is deafening to all.
House minions roam out in force,
Trying to fathom thoughts
Of Citizens within their homes,
Whose actions they know naught.
Fahrenheit Four Fifty One, and
Huxley's Brave New World
Form siren lures to power lords
Elected and unfurled.
The weak attempts must duly fail
Of the Bretheren of Cain;
Cordwainer Smith declared it best -
Scanners Live In Vain
ubiquitous surveillance ... (Score:3, Insightful)
It's a scary thought at first, but then I got to thinking that as the technologies behind this mature and become more powerful (as all technologies do) we will eventually reach a point where "everybody" really means "everybody"
Maybe, just maybe, ubiquitous surveillance will be the thing that saves humankind from the antisocial forces that currently plague us. When anybody can have their actions exposed on YouTube (or whatever the equivalent is in the future), people will be shamed into behaving in decent, harmonious way. It will be like some kind of techno-buddhist utopia.
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As long at the surveillance data is truly public, and all citizens are on a level playing field as far as access, it MAY be a good thing. But this article ta
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corporate executives are government servants and vice versa. just make a list of the top US politicians, and remove those who weren't corporate executives at some point in time. i doubt you'll be left with many.
politicians and top corporate folk are the same group, they just shift occupations from time to time for various reasons. and the
Re:ubiquitous surveillance ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Try this: there is no symmetry of rights in a class society. They get to watch you; watching them is a crime. FOIA compliance is already disappearing.
ummmm...... (Score:2, Funny)
ummmm.... or how about scared shitless from the armed men outside that 'may' want to cause you harm for raising a heart rate!!!
tags? (Score:4, Funny)
What ethical engineering jobs are out there? (Score:2)
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The Inevitable (Score:4, Funny)
We'll scan a person with one of these things and tell what they're actually thinking.'"
Jim, Jim, what's Jack thinking?
Umm...
Well, come-on, Jim. What is it?
Umm... he's thinking that we're a bunch of lamers because we're scanning him with the BB-1600, and everybody who's anybody has a MBB-8, which is what he's got.
Ah, come on. They both work. The MBB-8 just comes in more colors.
Yeah. Mac fan boys. Piss me off.
NOT NEW (Score:5, Interesting)
Through-the-wall IR scanners have been available to some police departments in the US for a while now. There has already been at least one court case about them.
In the United States (yes, still), it is illegal for officers of law enforcement to use electronic means to determine what is going on in your home without first obtaining a judicial warrant. The case I mentioned dealt with police using an through-the-wall scanner to determine where an alleged drug dealer was inside someone else's house, before they raided it. Because they had not obtained a warrant, the evidence was thrown out of court. The judge ruled that it was clearly an electronic device, and thus fell under the Federal Statute preventing its use.
I wish I had a citation at hand for this case, but I do not. I will try to find it.
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Re:NOT BS. (Score:5, Informative)
If Big Brother is Watching Me... (Score:4, Funny)
Where do they get their numbers? (Score:5, Interesting)
Interestingly, we, the public, don't seem to mind. Opinion polls, both in the US and Britain, say that about 75% of us want more, not less, surveillance.
I think we've just found the next Jason Blair.
I have to call bullshit on this one. In my entire life, I have met atheists and believers, gays and straights, liberals and conservatives, and not once, ever, in my life have I met someone who espoused more surveillance. Now, I live in a large metropolitan area - one with numerous projects involving installing more surveillance cameras, and even the most conservative, cop-loving suburbanites are at best indifferent, and quite often, vehemently opposed. There's a lot of hostility, but absolutely no support. The law of statistics would dictate that if 75% of the population supported more surveillance, I would have - at least once in my life - have heard someone argue in support of it. But I've never heard it from anyone. Not even the most gullible of idiots or stupidest of patriots I've met has ever said they'd like to see more surveillance.
Re:Where do they get their numbers? (Score:4, Interesting)
When the NSA wiretapping story broke, the anchor and legal specialist on CNN were arguing over whether that surveillance was really something to worry about. The legal specialist said yes, it's a violation of the fourth amendment. The anchor said, essentially, I don't care; I have nothing to hide.
I've argued with people here on
So, yeah, I've talked/posted with people who think that surveillance is a good thing, and who even think government could do more to protect the country.
Re:Where do they get their numbers? (Score:5, Insightful)
There's a big difference between "don't care" and "wanting more surveillance".
I too, have met the I'm-an-idiot-so-I-have-nothing-to-hide type. However, their indifference is fueled by their trust in humanity, and the fact that for most people, getting struck by lighting is a greater risk than being falsely imprisoned by their government for political reasons. Those without any political convictions won't ever be political prisoners.
I could accept that 75% are indifferent. What is unacceptable is translating "indifference" to "wanting more surveillance". I believe it is more correct to say that the average American doesn't want to be bothered by the question of surveillance, a subtle, but important difference. It doesn't mean they want more surveillance, but that they consider the appropriate level a surveillance a question better answered by the police. If they had to personally share the cost of the cameras; if the cameras inconvenienced them in some way, they'd probably take a different view.
Rainbow Six (Score:2, Interesting)
So much for sex (Score:4, Funny)
So your significant other is on the other side of the wall whispering sweet nothings and describing the slinky nightie she currently has on, your elevated heart rate could get you in trouble? Sounds to me like the government just killed seduction.
Meh... (Score:4, Insightful)
Soon after I do this, weavers of copper cloth will be required to report all their sales over fifty square feet to the DEA. Wearing faraday clothes will be considered evidence of guilt, like an encrypted hard drive. If you install fine-weave copper mesh in your walls, it will be used to get a warrant for a midnight raid. Y'know, like if you use too much power today.
I'm only half joking... I actually think making faraday-cage clothes would be neat just to have them.
which is why I use (Score:3, Informative)
Comment removed (Score:3, Funny)
Through the wall ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, wait a minute. Are they "sensing" through American walls (cardboard, wood and plaster) or through European walls (bricks or concrete) ? There's quite a bit of difference here, as anyone who tried to set up a WLAN may have found out
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The impact of the photos of American 'Freedom Tickling' at Abu Ghraib had a huge effect on the US occupation of Iraq.
Now sites like Live Leak [liveleak.com] can be used by people to show video that TV networks won't show. There you can see what an IED explosion is like and what an F-18 strike run in air support looks like. Also, you can check
Re:I For One... (Score:4, Funny)
Ow, my eyes are bleeding! (Score:3, Insightful)
Echelon.
AT&T [wired.com]
4,285,000 CCTV cameras in the UK" [slashdot.org]
Well, blow me, but I don't think that 4,285,000 video cameras were installed by vindictive girlfriends and envi