Using Face Recognition Instead of a PIN Number 254
coondoggie writes "Face recognition as a unique biometric is growing slowly in certain corporate and consumer applications, but researchers at the University of Houston (UH) are trying to make the technology far more ubiquitous and secure: they want it to replace the dozens of personal identification numbers (PIN), passwords and credit card numbers everyone uses every day.
University researchers developed the URxD face recognition software that uses a three-dimensional snapshot of a person's face to create a unique biometric identifier."
Bad idea (Score:5, Insightful)
This is stupid for a couple of reasons. The first is that biometrics suck and are usually almost trivial to subvert. See the $10 fake finger [deeperwants.com], for an example. What do you do if somebody hacks your credentials as well? Have facial re-constructive surgery? But even if you had very good biometrics that were hard to fake, it still less secure than having separate credentials to access everything.
Why is this? Well for the sake of argument, let's suppose it costs £50 to create a duplicate of my chip and pin card that will work in any cash point. I have four such cards in my wallet so the cost of duplicating them all is £200. In order for the biometric to replace my cards completely and be equally secure, it has to cost more than £200 to fake.
The problem is that the unified security mechanism rarely costs more to subvert then all the IDs it replaced. This doesn't just apply to bank-cards it also applies to national ID cards and any centralisation of security.
The fundamental principle here is that centralising security often reduces security. This is something to keep in mind when you're consolidating servers [slashdot.org].
Simon
Re: (Score:2)
Entering in your PIN number into an ATM machine and getting a NSF funds error message.
Re:Bad idea (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Be thankful I couldn't locate you with my RADAR ranging device, you might have been zapped with LASER radiation.
Otherwise, well done.
Easy to reproduce and.. (Score:5, Funny)
That's secure right?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It's worse than that (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
2. Go around cleaning everyones garbage cans.
3. Find a Large Portrait or Bill Gates over a Color Copier.
4. Make Photo Copy of the picture.
5. Continuing to clean other peoples garbage enter Bill Gates office.
6. Clean his garbage.
7. Walk outside and see your ship has been stolen and is placed in the companies parking lot
8. Go back to Bill Gates office and take his ATM card.
9. Leave the offices.
10. Go to the ATM Machine Use Bill Gates Keycard and his photocopied photo
Re: (Score:2)
On the plus side, it brings a lovely Hannibal Lecter-like meaning to the inevitable phrase "Hack your face."
No. No. and No. (Score:3, Insightful)
Okay sure, spend $50 on some sensor or $150 on sensor+lock and it will accept a fake finger. But that's not your average biometric installation.
What do you do if somebody hacks your credentials as well?
If the bad guy wants in, he won't try to reproduce your *face* to get in. This is just absurd.
The problem is that the unified security mechanism rarely costs more to subvert then all the IDs it replaced.
Except biometric installation
Re: (Score:2)
I'm sure right now they're not. But the parent was responding to the article, and part of the point of the article (which may or may not reflect how they are or will be implemented in real life) is that they should:
"Remembering dozens of personal identification numbers and passwords is not the solution to identity theft. PINs and passwords are not only inconvenient to memorize, but also are impractical to safeguard.
Re: (Score:2)
The word "should" is used to forcefully assert some opinion. There are a million things wrong with the quoted marketingspeak and using "should" to pile on another bad idea is simply wrong.
Remembering dozens of personal identification numbers and passwords is not the solution to identity theft.
Biometrics is not a silver bullet for "identity theft." In fact, it's the wrong tool.
The solution is to be able to tie your private information to your person in a way
Re: (Score:2)
You didn't see mythbusters did you? They got a top of the line biometric sensor which the manufacturer claimed had *never* been broken, had all sorts of buzzword compliant checks (pulse, temperature, etc.).
They broke it with a photocopy of a fingerprint.
Facts Please (Score:2)
I got some facts (Score:2)
Spending several thousands of dollars for a door lock and several hundred for a proper access control peripheral would defy mythbuster tests. It also would make bad tv, so you'll never hear about it.
Re:PIN *NUMBER* ??? (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
N-Ten (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
No, it's "personal PIN identification number." You can't completely understand this unless you're eating a pizza pie while drinking chai tea.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
What would you use at an ATM machine other than a PIN number?
All just part of the terror of the RAS syndrome! (Score:2, Redundant)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome [wikipedia.org]
(RAS=Redundant Acronym Syndrome)
Re:PIN *NUMBER* ??? (Score:4, Funny)
Yeah, you'll be FUBAR beyond all recognition.
informative or pedantic? YOU decide, summer 2007! (Score:3, Funny)
and for the final coupe de gras
I was just about to mod you +1Funny (I'm sure others will take up the slack) when I noticed the way you spelled that... /. encoding is going to chew up), as in "mercy". What you wrote is "slice of fat" which just sounds like you'd add insult to injury by stabbing them in the blubber.
It's "coup de grâce [wikipedia.org]" (with the little hat over the 'a' that I think the
Totally agree with you here (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Or if it's facial recognition software... they'd have to cut off your whole head.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The problem is that sometimes you don't actually want it to be truly unique per individual. The way things are today, if I'm not feeling well I can send my girlfriend to do some shopping, give her my bank card and tell her my PIN. The most she can rip me off for is £200 minus anything I may have already withdrawn that day, and
Interesting, but Ill decline (Score:3, Insightful)
Essentially, it uses your face to access your information in a database, which could include bank, credit card, medical, or pretty much anything else desired.
However, all a person then needs to commit fraud is to capture these scans and feed it back to the software...
Ill keep my zero liability credit cards and my 4 and 6 digit pin numbers thank you.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
If you suspect that you can change your pin code. Or change them daily if you want to.
I'm sure a mask could be reverse engineered to any given "face code" that would fool a machine, if not a human.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
It's trivial for my daugthers to choose different PINs.
Please explain how they would go about getting machines using the 3D face-contours to acknowledge that they are not, infact, the same person.
There's 300 million people in the US, of these about 2 million people are identical twins. I'd say a technology which is, from the get go, even absent any weaknesses, unusable for close to 1% of the popu
Check for life! (Score:5, Interesting)
Some poor Malaysian fellow has already lost a finger [bbc.co.uk]. I'd hate to have my head stolen just to access my bank account.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Now that HAS to be a Micro-soft project...
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Duress issues abound. (Score:2)
With my home security system I have two codes, one deactivates the system allowing entry, the second allows entry but immediately calls the police. Both operate exactly the same from the stand point of someone who doesn't know the number.
I guess we could "combine" features, use facial, iris, or other physical, identification with PIN numbers and such for sensitive activities and just allow
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Yep. Might just want to limit this system to in-store purchases. Then when a would-be thief walks into a Best Buy to get a plasma TV using my card and severed head, the clerk may get suspicious and ask for a second piece of ID.
Re: (Score:2)
Come on. You know this would only work for a few days before the crooks catch wise and cut off a finger as well.
Its not the number of passwords that is the issue (Score:5, Interesting)
Recently I needed a new password for a site. I tried the short one. "your password must be at least X characters". fine, whatever, that's why I use my long one,"your password is too long", so a new, made-up one "your password must contain at least one number". WTF?
Can we not at least agree some standard on this? Like many people I end up having to write this new mangled password down, totally defeating its security.
I do not see, from a code POV, why it matters that the password is less than X characters. Between 5 and 10 characters? WHY? what is wrong with between 5 and 50 characters? or 5 and 100 characters?
Most people can remember a sentence pretty easily, especially a favourite catchphrase or movie quote, remembering "tuesdaypass442" is not so easy, and thus they get written down. I understand the need for minimum pass lengths, but capping the max so low, and so close to the min, is just madness. Give us flexibility in passwords, not some dubious new expensive tech to do the same job.
Re:Its not the number of passwords that is the iss (Score:2)
Re:Its not the number of passwords that is the iss (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
why it matters that the password is less than X characters. Between 5 and 10 characters? WHY? what is wrong with between 5 and 50 characters? or 5 and 100 characters?
Because those would take up too much room in the database :P
It's scary how many sites have max length limits, which implies that they're storing passwords unhashed -- even scarier is when you *know* sites are storing passwords unhashed, because every time they send you a bit of physical mail your username and password is printed across the top of it. An example of this UCAS [ucas.com], an organisation with vast amounts of personal information about pretty much every university student in the UK.
A related weird o
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Its not the number of passwords that is the iss (Score:4, Interesting)
w2trw
w2trwrld
yes, you are right, welcome to the real world is easy to remember. and now it will evoke the memory of w2trwrld, which is between 5-10 letters and contain one digit, and thus will be accepted as strong on 90% of the passworded applications out there.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
must have at least one number and be from 6-100 characters. Otherwise it narrows the possibilities down a bit much.
Technically, any restriction at all makes passwords take less time to brute force, since it reduces the number of possibilities. If the minimum length is 6 characters, there's no point in checking passwords shorter than that, so a brute force attack would just start at 6 characters. Requiring numbers and other special characters has a similar effect. Anything that reduces the size of password space is not a security improvement.
Re: (Score:2)
Like to Forget (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
On top of this, users would be likely to forget their duress-pins, on account of them being used extremely seldom. (most users would never use them
Sounds pretty fucked up for twins... (Score:4, Interesting)
They are trying to solve a problem (I hate pin codes) by making it to a worse problem. Way to go...
Re:Sounds pretty fucked up for twins... (Score:4, Funny)
Yes, even the female ones.
Sounds great! Until... (Score:2)
3D (Score:2)
Somebody who didn't read:
The article:
Obviously CmdrTaco and Alan Cox wouldn't like it (Score:4, Funny)
"Please stuck your head in the scanner for face recognition."
*grumble*
"Your face was not recognized, please rub your face with the towel provided and try agiain."
*damn*
"We failed to recognized your face after several trials. We'll now shave your face for a better recognition result. To avoid you moving your head while shaving is in progress, we'll lock your head firmly now."
*shaver pop out*
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"
MI (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
So... (Score:5, Insightful)
Update biometrics. (Score:2, Insightful)
I guess you'd have to have your biometrics updated every few years as you age. More often if you smoke, drink heavily, sun bath, etc... those things age you faster.
It's Bogus (Score:4, Interesting)
How do I know? Because the exact same maths apply to a different domain, and we'd already have seen developments there if this was true.
Decompilation uses exactly the same abstract mathematical concepts as shape recognition (of which facial recognition clearly is a subset). Just replace "vertices" with assembly-language instructions and the "shapes" to which they may belong with program structures (for / while loops, subroutines &c).
If there was anything in this facial recognition malarkey, somebody would have created a working decompiler by now. That's just a simple application of the law of averages; there are many more hackers out there than there are biometrics researchers. And there's a huge application for a decompiler: the ability to decompile a program which originally was written in, say, Visual BASIC into C++ will mean that programmers can collaborate on a project without having to have a language in common (and, incidentally, it will also mean that Freedoms One and Three can be taken by force like Freedoms Zero and Two). So far, nobody has created such a thing.
It's snake oil, pure and simple.
Plus, I kind of like the extra security layer that I get by having different PINs for all my cards and different paswords for all my online accounts. If someone discovers, say, my Halifax PIN, they'll have to steal my Halifax card. But if they catch me on a day when I'm not carrying that one and steal my Lloyds TSB card or my Abbey National card instead, the Halifax PIN is useless to them (and while I'm sorting out blocking the stolen card, I can change the compromised PIN). Likewise, if someone discovers my Yahoo! Messenger password, they can't impersonate me on Slashdot.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
If you want to do a "card not present" transaction, you need, in addition to the card number: Expiry date, invoice address (which does not have to be your home address, as long as there's a chain of contact that leads to
It's Real (Score:2)
WTF are you talking about? How does the lack of a pretty decompiler imply the impossibility of facial recognition?
For one, several different samples of source code could compile down to identical assembly code. Variable names and comments are lost during compilation, so those can't be rebuilt. And different constructs in the high-level language could also boil down to identical machine code during optimization. Still, you can certainly decompile assembly code to express it in a high-level language, but i
ummmm... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Stupid for several reasons (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Stupid for several reasons (Score:4, Interesting)
Some simple image matching process would be a good idea IMHO. It doesn't have to be fantastic and definitely not a replacement for a PIN.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The chances? Nil.
Last I looked into this technology (around 2001), the best available was only good for three nines. That's one person in 1000 getting access to your bank account. It's hard to say whether they've improved, because the benchmark used in the study this article is based on uses "FRR at FAR = 0.001" as the measure.
Nope (Score:2, Informative)
You have to consciously enter a PIN to give it away - unless you're fooled by a complete rebuild of an ATM, you're not likely to enter this particular number anywhere else
It has happened over and over again. People use their ATM cards to enter indoor bank terminals (that's pretty common in Europe at least). Crooks have set up key pads and card copying devices instead of the card swipers, successfully copying thousands of cards together with pin code information. Also ATM machines have been successfully and repeatedly modified to copy the ATM cards inserted. A little camera mounted close t
3D map of the face ? What about acne ? (Score:2, Funny)
Or better still, a broken nose ? Imagine having to go explain to the bank that you needed to change your pin because you were drunk and got into a fight at a pub ? There goes your chance at getting a homeloan
Face recognition with a photo! (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Should be interesting (Score:2)
Now if you enhance the credit/atm card with a biometric to ensure that the owner of the card is the one using it, that would be
It's doable (Score:2)
Anyway, I think facial recognition would have to be used in tandem with a magnetic card or smart card; this is to replace the PIN, not the card. So the ATM already knows who I claim to be and has to check just one
As always, people miss the point (Score:2)
1) Something you have. This would be like a key or a smart card or something. The strength is that if properly designed it should be difficult to impossible to copy and that it h
Re: (Score:2)
The only thing that can't be duplicated (without your knowledge, that is) is the "something you know." It's the most import
Re: (Score:2)
useful for fraud scoring, but not an auth factor (Score:3, Informative)
Where it will be used is in fraud scoring. The Alliance and leicester trialled small webcam like devices on ATMs but for some reason took them out of service. Recognition is useful, but it will not be used to block transactions, it will mostly likely be used to raise a score on a fraud profile for a transaction.
This type of fraud profiling is becoming more important because the UK will be moving to Faster payments [apacs.org.uk] at the end of 2007 - where once banks had 3 days to run scanning products [visionmagazine.net] (for terrorist account activity and fraud) - they will only have a few minutes. The problem at the moment in the UK is that customers do a lot of electronic payments compared to USA - so many transactions will not have time for all the fraud checks.
so if someone who looks nothing like my description makes a transaction, then the score will increase on the account which can then implement further fraud checks in resulting transactions.
when I designed and built a fraud detection system for a UK mobile operator, we found that when a handset/number had fraud committed on it - it usually was usually picked up by lots of the fraud scanners and would stick out like a sore thumb. Each customer would have an associated fraud score and when it reached a certain point, the fraud team would get involved.
Discredited over 100 years ago (Score:2)
Ever listen to lawyers debating DRM? We know that's impossible and these idiots would best loosen their ties.
Even if it worked, a society where if you do a "crime", expect the "time" is no Utopia. This is troll, but
the whole abuse of technolo
My next purchase (Score:2)
Two-factor authentication (Score:2)
Instead of ranting on this for the 10,000th time, I'll just provide the link to Two-factor authentication [wikipedia.org]
Biometrics not unique (Score:2)
Quantification usually takes the form as reducing physical qualities to numbers and checking the numbers just read with the numbers stored, usually with a hefty margin of error. It's a guarantee you could do a plastic mock up of a face that would read true and wouldn't fool a myopic five year o
...And sculptors become the new locksmiths. (Score:2)
Latest memo from the IT department (Score:2)
From: IT department
Re: Biometric authentication update
Dear users,
As you may know, we here in IT are always on the cutting edge of technology and security. We have been investigating new methods of user authentication for some time, and have finally selected the technology that we intend to use. From now on, all user authentication will be done using facial recognition biometric technology. This will, unfortunately, force us to make some changes to several of our long-standing pol
Why "instead of"? (Score:2)
I think it was Bruce Schneier who grouped authentication mechanisms into three kinds: something you have (like a physical key or device), something you are (like your retinal pattern) and something you know (like a password). You can great security by combining these mechanism
Re: (Score:2)
I would even prefer subdermal RFID...
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe so, but not from a security/ATM/credit card standpoint. When (not if) the database containing the image, or numerical representation of the image, is hacked, you cannot request a new face.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The same data used for facial recognition could be used to program rapid prototyping equipment to make a matching mask. Rapid prototyping is already used for biomedical purposes. Google "rapid prototyping skull" for more info.