Microsoft Sees Stronger XP Sales in FY08 243
Rude Awakening wrote with a PC World article, saying that XP sales will actually be higher next year than they were in 2007. Despite Vista's release, Microsoft admitted this week that it expects the previous version of its operating system to make up a larger percentage of its OS sales in 2008. "According to Liddell, Microsoft will generate the same revenue, more or less, under the new Vista vs. XP numbers, although there might be some slight differences because Vista sales have tended to involve more of the higher-priced versions, dubbed premium by the company, than has XP. The financial forecast didn't spell out that directly, however. The only clue was a US$120 million difference in what Microsoft pegged as the 'undelivered elements' it assigned to unearned income for the coming year."
A couple reasons for this (Score:5, Interesting)
I'll admit that this is pure speculation, but if true, I find it interesting that the release of the new, "better than ever" version of a product is driving sales of the old (but still serviceable) version. It kinda reminds me of when Linksys came out with their WRT54G v.5.
Re:A couple reasons for this (Score:5, Interesting)
At the very minimum corporate users will wait until their lease expires on their Dells and then will see if they demand XP to be included in their new machines!!!
Re:A couple reasons for this (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:A couple reasons for this (Score:4, Interesting)
Exactly. XP was a disaster when it was first released, but like most Microsoft products, it benefitted from being beaten up by users for several years. I know of savvy computer users who still run Win2K, not because of corporate lethargy, but because it is arguably faster and more stable than XP, and has a smaller footprint, even after all the multitudinous Service Packs and other patches have been applied. Honestly, I don't do anything that depends on XP that I couldn't do with Win2K, and think downgrading to Vista would be a major step in the wrong direction. Microsoft OSes need to "age" at least three or four years before they can be trusted in the real world.
I still say that Windows Vista is the best advertisement around for Ubuntu Linux.
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Windows != a fine wine
Windows is more like the fish you put under the seat of your evil neighbor's car three days ago while he was away.
Wasn't it Benjamin Franklin who said that fish and Windows are alike in that after three days both stink?
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The corporate world is always miles behind. My company is just still malingering on 2K on a lot of boxes, just now getting to XP. Big companies are not known for leaping forward into new and unproven technologies, especially when most of the improvement is just user eye-candy.
This is very true. Even huge corporates like Shell are just now migrating from Win NT 4.0 to Win2K on the servers; while the desktops are Win2K and XP - no Vista. And again, on the desktops IE7 has been banned and the old office apps that need the quirks and ActiveX of broken IE6 is still the only choice.
Moving to Vista will mean changing the entire infrastructure including the Office package, the browser, the server apps, the tools to manage and program the server apps etc. etc. Win2K to WinXP on the desk
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If you think the changes in Vista are just eye-candy, you are sadly mistaken. There are a huge number of new incompatibilities in the new version, hidden by compatibility mode hacks, which get triggered by filename matching, thus ensuring that third party programs will be forever crippled by compatibility mode.
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It's all about pre-loading and how dumb/ignorant the population is and therefore, Microsoft continues to rule the roost with its crapware. Mention that the next time someone asks you why Linux has not gained more marketshare on the deskt
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Re:A couple reasons for this (Score:5, Insightful)
Unfinished... (Score:2)
Vista, in my opinion anyway, is rather like Windows ME of the past - a bit of an abortion from Microsoft - they have quite obviously released Vista FAR too early - it's an unfinished product, rushed out of the factory, because it perceived its competitor's products (Linux-based, OSX-based for example) being released with certain innovations which it wanted to claim for itself as its own innovations, and now because of that is paying the price of that rush. People percieve Vista to be what it is - a rushed out Operating System with many bugs, failed claims, and as a - to be extremely kind - beta quality product at the very most.
Which is kind of funny when you think about it, they started working on Vista (or Longhorn as it was known back then in 2001), they dropped a whole pile of features and Vista still gives the impression of being an unfinished product. If I compare Vista's state to that of a major OS.X release, for one thing I don't feel Im going to get anything form Vista that OS X 10.4.10 does not already have and certainly nothing 10.5.X wont have. Not that there aren't any problems with a new major OS X release, you alwa
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Been off planet for a few years and just got back, or did the following just slip your mind?
One of Jim Allchin's emails released to the public during a trail last year mentioned the visit by some of the Longhorn coding crew to the release announcement/showing of the Mac OS X. When they came back one wrote that he had been to "Longhorn Nirvana" and saw what he hoped Longhorn WOULD BECOME. Notice the future tense?
See http://www.y [youtube.com]
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See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-2C2gb6ws8 [youtube.com] and notice the clip was AFTER the Max OS X release and before VISTA's release.
Some nice spin by Apple there. Some of the features (e.g. integrated RSS in the browser) that they claimed Microsoft copied, they copied from elsewhere. Spotlight? On my MacBook Pro, as on my PowerBook before it, it is a complete waste of space, and fails to find files that I can find myself in less time than it takes to give up. Sounds exactly like the Indexing Service from Windows 2000, right down to randomly chewing up all your CPU time. The one that really had me laughing was the claim that Micros
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The fact that it hasent had a major upgrade in 6 years now actually makes it a pretty fast OS which modern software supports.
New software doesn't *need* to be slower than old software. That's mostly a problem of developers rushing to add new performance-robbing features rather than refining current code and optimizing the old features for performance.
It sounds like a minor point, but I'm just saying that it isn't being 6 years old that makes it faster. Microsoft could have spent the past 6 years increasi
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After using it for a while, its obvious why VMware is the near billion dollar company with Intel's backing, not Parallels, Inc. Paying for Parallels is handing out good money to be a beta tester.
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I'm sort of in the same boat.
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All Microsoft is saying is that XP sales in FY08 will probably be up a little and Vista sales down a little from earlier projections.
Systems entering the consumer market this fall will be "designed for Vista."
They will perform well running Vista and will ship with DX 10 video as standard, perhaps with integrated ReadyBooost flash, hybrid hard driv
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Exactly. The kind of people who actually know how to remove an OS and install a new one aren't the ones likely to be purchasing Vista in the first place.
Re:A couple reasons for this (Score:4, Informative)
If you have a MS lic for an OS or Office suite you can install either of the two versions before it, you can contact MS for the nessesary lic code. Our new machines will come with Vista Business lics with WinXP Pro installed, and we could have even asked for Win2k installed. I am not disagreeing with you at all, just pointing out a perhaps not so well known MS lic feature. That way you can always install Vista if/when you decide you are ready for it.
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One Big Obvious Reason. Game Over. (Score:2)
The upgrade train is out of steam [slashdot.org]. M$ has lost it's ability to force broken new crap onto it's customers. There is nothing subtlety about Vista and Office 2007's push. Vista obsoleted 95% of the PCs on the market at release and came with a GUI harder to figure out than KDE. Office 2007 not only foist a new file format on a market striving for sane standards like ODF, it pushed a brand new GUI. People don't want these things and have rejected Vista. M$'s position is going to get worse as their channel
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ah, well.
Microsoft is giving away tens of thousands of Vista licenses to universities and the government. they gave away thousands at 2007 CES; if you were a beta tester and sent in a bug report, you get a free copy.
this really isn't anything new, I got a free copy of Win2k server (The Ultimate Windows, IMO), free copies of Office 2000, pretty much free copies of EVERYTHING due to my past jobs, but this is on a completely different scale.
It is a dog. they know it's a dog. they
Vista sales (Score:3, Informative)
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Impressive indeed!
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If high-traffic sites like Yahoo, CNN, Amazon and Disney are on the list - then the numbers are "good enough."
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It will be interesting to see if Vista continues at a 5%-per-year pace or whether it will pick up.
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See http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid
The Cynic in me... (Score:5, Interesting)
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It would be interesting to see sales of Win2K after the release of XP,
as well as sales of XP after the release of Vista, to get an idea of the adoption/abortion rate.
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WIth a lot of businesses using Windows 2000, I suppose if they're not going to upgrade to XP, might as well make 2 sales out of them. Upgrade them to XP while its still being supported and their machines still run it. Then pull XP from the market, with their next upgrade cycle they might have t
Vista is a failure (Score:5, Interesting)
I hope and think that people are starting to realize that newer is not always better, and at the same time realizing that Microsoft doesn't always tell the truth. I also hope and think that this will speed up the adoption of Linux for the desktop, even if it is not quite ready for everybody yet.
(Excuse my English, I am Norwegian.)
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I hope and think that people are starting to realize that newer is not always better, and at the same time realizing that Microsoft doesn't always tell the truth. I also hope and think that this will speed up the adoption of Linux for the desktop, even if it is not quite ready for everybody yet.
I am a Linux user at my workplace but the Windows systems we have all run XP. Our IT people will buy Vista when they can use it across the entire site. Until then they will deploy new systems with the old OS.
Excuse my English, I am Norwegian.
There is nothing wrong with your English.
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Your English is fine... (Score:2)
I bought vista ultimate (Score:2)
I reinstalled vista in vmware in order to keep on trying it and get used to it, but I can't. It is hard to say why, but I just keep hating vista.
I've run Linux for years on my server and windows (98, 2000, XP) on my desktops. But if the XP option would dissapear and vista would be the only windows option, I guarantee: either I switch to a mac with OSX, or I would start using Linux for my desktop as we
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I understand you well without translation. And yeah, Vista is definitely a clusterfuck (I have to admit I had to google that).
As a previous poster pointed out - there's nothing wrong with your english and you in fact are clearer spoken than most Slashdot posters.
;-)
On-topic it's interesting to note that a Google search for "Vista clusterfuck" actually produces relevant results. That says something about how people are describing the situation I think.
No, I am afraid not.
More's the pity....
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I find this more interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcARXN7cr9Y [youtube.com]
Yes but Vista clusterfuck still beats XP clusterfuck by quite a margin [se-fight.com] though by nowhere near as big a margin as your video shows for Vista sucks/XP sucks. ;-)
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There are a few key differences this time, however. Firstly, for hardware and software companies, making old hardware and applications work on XP was relatively simple, as it was based on the same code as Windows 2000. Now, it is a much tougher proposition to make old stuff work on the new OS, and many well-known
tempting... (Score:2, Funny)
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Dear Microsoft... (Score:5, Funny)
Now how to 'fix' your Vista 'issue' - cut the multiple versions bullsh*t and make 'Ultimate' the only version, and sell it for $120.
Be amazed as profits rocket.
That is all.
Dumbasses.
ps on second thoughts ignore all this and carry on as normal as it's really helping Linux and OSX gain ground.
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Um, Bill Gates has always been a f**king a**hole and 20 years ago, Microsoft had an awesome future.
Vista Sucks... (Score:5, Informative)
* 0x80073712 error in doing updates. I've ran in to this problem and did the registry fix to remove StoreDirty, cleaned out the update download directory, and threw up a voodoo doll on the machine to get Windows Updates to install. From what I've read on their forums and other sites I got as results from my Googling, repair install or reinstall is about the only fix.
* Video drivers, I'm still waiting on a 7900gtx nvidia driver that works properly. I'm not at all happy with Vista's performance and driver compatabilities. I spent over $300 on that card FOR VISTA. Why the hell ain't it working properly on my games which aren't even DX10 games. This is more of an Nvidia problem but it just adds another reason for me to not like Vista.
* Renaming everything. Jesus christ I can't find Add/Remove Programs because it was changed to something else. Consistancy for god sake people! I seriously feel like I did after I first installed a copy of Linux, which runs great, but I had this lost feeling and no clue where anything was.
XP may have had more holes in it but it just WORKED. I can't say the same for Vista at all.
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XP may have had more holes in it but it just WORKED. I can't say the same for Vista at all.
Oh how short a memory you have. For a start SLOW NETWORK SHARES BROWSING which is still a major issue on XP. XP when it first came out had a whole slew of issues and SP1 did a massive job of clearing them up. In fact, it can only really be argued that XP fully matured with SP2. Drivers were less of a problem because XP was based on Win2k, so you could always try Win2k drivers, but for those of us who've been around a while, we can remember the problems with Win2k driver model caused in the early stages.
Th
Vista's Content Protection (Score:4, Interesting)
* Video drivers, I'm still waiting on a 7900gtx nvidia driver that works properly. I'm not at all happy with Vista's performance and driver compatabilities. I spent over $300 on that card FOR VISTA. Why the hell ain't it working properly on my games which aren't even DX10 games. This is more of an Nvidia problem but it just adds another reason for me to not like Vista.
Here is the explanation, why it takes so long: Vista's Content Protection: [auckland.ac.nz] In short, apparently it is very difficult to make a proper video driver for Vista.Re: (Score:2)
0x80073712 error in doing updates
Video drivers
Renaming everything
You forgot network drivers, sound drivers, printer drivers, software incompatibility, network incompatibility and DRM. I have had bad experiences with all of these, though on other people's computers, as I refuse to run Vista myself.
XP may have had more holes in it but it just WORKED
Actually, this was not true until after SP2. That's why I didn't migrate to XP until Fall 2003, and I'm still ticked off at how much it slowed my system down.
I'm going out and getting a copy of XP before they totally yank it
I have already done this. I picked up a couple of cheap copies from a store that was clearing them out in favour
This is in spite of skewing results a little (Score:2)
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Vista is a big change (Score:3, Insightful)
I am in the process of learning Vista right now. My first impressions are that there are some things to like (lots of problem diagnosis tools, configuration history tracking, network mapping, etc) and some things that make you scratch your head (I have yet to figure out how to coerce Vista to allow my backup service to start each time I boot - I always have to "give permission". I know I can turn off User Access Control entirely, but that seems a bit draconian and not really "in the spirit" of Vista).
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The only problem is that you can't get a site license [slashdot.org] for XP any more. You can only get Vista site licenses that allow you to alternatively install XP. So no matter what you do, it still counts as a sale of Vista. In other words, the new 4:1 forecast is...ah....optimistic at best.
The other difference between the 2000->XP migration and today's XP-
Has msft "revised their statement" (Score:2)
Remember that scene from "The Fugive" ?
U.S. Marshal Erin Poole: Care to revise your statement, sir?
Prison Guard: What?
U.S. Marshal Samuel Gerard: Do you want to change your bullshit story!
Profit!! (Score:2, Funny)
2. Sell old OS
3. Profit!!
The ?? has been explained!!
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A couple of reasons for this (Score:3, Interesting)
Then there's that driver issue. For much legacy hardware, you'll not get certified Vista drivers, or drivers that won't work 100% reliably under Vista. Even for current hardware, you sometimes still have troubles integrating it seamlessly. Not really the fault of MS, just a matter of a lot of very different hardware in existance with manufacturers who're slow to adopt to a market that isn't as large as it was predicted to be.
Then there's TCP/DRM. A lot of people are actually insecure of just how it works, a lot of spin has been delivered and a lot of scare has been dealt. Some of it was justified, but I've heard so much nonsensical BS that I can see why some people think their beloved copied movies will cease to work if they use Vista.
Then there's the licensing model of "phoning home" at least once every 6 months or it stops working. Not to mention the monthly revelation of just what Vista keeps stored and transmits to MS.
And finally that a lot of the new features in Vista are not really a seller. Yes, they're nice to have and offer some value, but nothing new that cannot be achived by third party tools. Many people who want these features will rather try to get a tool for free instead of switching to a new OS.
Bottom line: People prefer to use what they know. Especially when they've learned by now that an MS system takes about 1-2 years after release to be "finished". People don't want to be paying Betatesters anymore. And neither do companies.
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Another DRM thorn is writing drivers or code for any device that potentially could b
Is vista win ME? (Score:2)
However after ME they came up with XP which, despite what Linux users say, was a huge leap in
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By the time Microsoft was working on Win ME, it was working on Win 2000 in paralel (ME being the evolution of their DOS based systems, and 2000 of the NT based ones). It also didn't have all the delay (ME means milenium edition, and was released just on time to make sense).
The only time I can remember that Microsoft betted so hight on a OS was with Cairo (planned to be released by 92 with several features, including WinFS), that become Windows 95. That time they were sucessfull, but they reduced the bet si
We linux users should help promote Vista because.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Only don't promote Vista as a Linux user, Instead promote it like you work for MS.
Lets all face it, new and improved functionality must be weighed against new and improved problems and user constraints to have to again learn all about and deal with.
Who really wants to do that?
I was resistant to XP when it came out and I have never purchased a copy but use it at work and find it installed on systems people toss and I grab up or systems others give me. Do I like XP better than windows 98? Yes, some, as it has improvements that I could do without but are nicer than windows 98. But it also has irritations I'd rather not have that windows 98 doesn't have.
And that just a comparison of windows to windows. I use Linux 90%, or better, of the time at home. I have used Knoppix, still have it installed on one system but use ubuntu on my main system. (having drive trays is useful as I can swap out for windows98 as I have purchased several third party software packages and installed them on windows 98).
Of the windows XP boxes, I use one briefly for bellsouth/AT&T and linksys router control, because they only support windows (idiots). But I can and do run the live cd of linux dynebolic on them.
I have numerious systems including several PPC macs pre-osx and one imac post osx (interesting machine).
I have systems that have MS DOS - pre-windows and later versions and onece had to deal with MS ME trash.
Somewhere I have a MFM drive dual bootable (probably doesn't spin anymore) with old Minix on it.
I still have an Amiga 1000 and an Amiga 4000/toaster system.
The point is: I've tried a lot of different system, more than mentioned.
But what do I really want of an OS?
Of course I want a wide range of quality software I'm interested in, to run on it, thats a given.
The Amiga is the closest, and I'd probably like BeOS too.
But the problem here is that they are no longer reasonably supported and off shoots like AROS and BeOS's open source versions are yet to reach production level.
DragonFly BSD seems promising as does the Hurd and Minix 3, but they too lack in current state.
Overall I am greatly disappointed with the computer industry in regards to Operating Systems.
All things weighed, GNU/Linux currently gets the most points, But I don't consider it 100% Free Software, as there really are a lot of built in constraints.
100% FreeSoftware will only happen when software is easy enough to create that most anyone can do it, just as today most anyone can use a calculator.
Windows is very much the opposite of free, and the most pathetic example of MS dumbing down the users (a crime against consumers) is changing the names of applications and functionality and in general taking away functionality that should be considered fundamental. Philosophy being - make the users think they are stupid while giving teh professionals more to re-learn and charge for.
While GNU/Linux applies has it constraints one what the users can do for themselves.
So promote Vista
And remember, when this barbaric OS mentality is finally overcome, it won't matter to you cause you long be dead.
Re:We linux users should help promote Vista becaus (Score:2)
WTF?
I see the barrier to entry argument, but while that can be lowered slightly, programming is inherently difficult. Not everyone could do it, and some people can program much better than others.
Be happy when there are no *artificial* barriers to entry. There's jack you can do about natural barriers to entry.
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http://threeseas.net/abstraction_physics.html [threeseas.net]
The artificial barriers are keeping us all away from using the natural barriers to our advantage.
With correct understanding of the natural barriers, we can do a lot more and that includes users as well.
Math is inherently difficult to, especially if you are using the roman numeral system to do it with.
But we have this new abstraction set we use instead. Its called the decimal system with its "only a fool would think nothing can have vale" zero p
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And why are calculators easy to use?
First experience with Vista yesterday and done (Score:2)
The machine arrived from Dell yesterday. I fired it up to see Vista. The damn thing blue-screened on first boot. It has since booted fine.
This tells me that either the software is broken, or the hardware is. Either way, it is going back for a refund.
Nice job, Dell. Nice job, MS.
Nothing New Here (Score:4, Insightful)
It will take a while for these organizations to start buying into the whole Vista thing, and will only happen once the older computers and peripherals are retired. Until then, and only then, XP will remain the preferred operating system over Vista. This shouldn't be earth-shaking news, since a lot of old companies are still using older versions of windows (I wouldn't be surprised if there are still a few Windows 98 and NT4 installations out there), and are only now considering a migration to XP. Microsoft justs needs to have a little patience. Vista will start gaining traction with these organizations in 2009.
money talks (Score:2)
XP (Score:2)
XP is just much more tested, stable and user friendly than Vista.
Vista does not offer anything which would benefit home users by upgrading.
Like all other MS operating systems, Vista won't be useable before service pack X,
where x seems to range from 1 to 6.
Why vista sucks (Score:2)
2.Adding features that make Vista appear to be more secure instead of features that actually make it more secure.
3.Changing the driver model and forcing hardware vendors to rewrite the drivers
4.Too many editions. Aeroglass should have been part of Home Basic with the media crap (like DVD authoring, HD movie maker, media center etc) and other Home Premium addons being released as a seperate extra pack. Enterprise should not exist as
Let the market decide (Score:2)
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My big gripe with Windows Vista: (Score:2)
You want a machine with bare minimum 2 GB of RAM and a very fast CPU to run Vista Home Premium edition properly. Meanwhile, Windows XP Professional works quite well with as little as 768 MB of system RAM with an Intel Celeron 466 MHz CPU. My current home machine running an AMD Athlon CPU clocked at 1.664 GHz and 1.5 GB of RAM runs Windows XP Pro extremely well, and I don't see the point of upgrading to Windows Vista.
They'd have made more $$$ if they hadn't bothered. (Score:2)
If they'd just sacked most of their developers in 2001 and kept on selling XP they'd have made far more money.
Why Vista? (Score:2)
But Vista is slower than XP for games and now it appears that Vista has a second problem, it memory maps the entire Video memory into user address space, wasting this precious resource:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx? i=3044&p=1 [anandtech.com]
Also this is not done for performance reasons, but seems to be part of Microsofts efforts to tighten the DRM screws.
So vista gives gamers DX10 which is currently pointless, s
Meanwhile, in other news ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Requisite bad car analogy: The incorporation of numerous 'advances' in automotive technology have fueled a healthy market for older models.
but (Score:2)
B.
Can someone explain just what Vista is doing... (Score:2)
OK, let's put this into perspective. We're not talking about some processor-hungry application here, we're talking about the overhead of teh OS itself.
Several years ago I was dual-booting FreeBSD and Windows on my main com
Re:Oy (Score:5, Informative)
No is isn't people are just too stupid to read properly, the article is about microsoft changing their predictions about XP sales for next year from 15% up to 22% and vista from 85% down to 78%.
Its amazing how people can get facts so wrong when its practically written in your face
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Re:Yup (Score:4, Funny)
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Forget about reading stupid articles in 'theregister.com' look at the money, microsoft has just posted record breaking profits and sales revenue beating the analysts in the both the last two quarters, how the register managed to spin that against vista would be amazing if it wasn't so transparent.
MSFT [yahoo.com]
It had better be "record breaking" (Score:3, Interesting)
microsoft has just posted record breaking profits and sales revenue beating the analysts in the both the last two quarters
In an inflationary economy, anything less than "record breaking" is a decline. Declines are just fine for most businesses, but M$ pays a large share of their salary in terms of stock options and depends on perpetual growth to keep going.
how the register managed to spin that against vista would be amazing if it wasn't so transparent.
If it's transparent, tell me what's wrong with
Who mods these up?? (Score:2)
I'm not even sure you understand what you've written, but by this metric Google is in trouble, since they just missed earnings [cnn.com]. Hell, Oracle and IBM must be at the brink as well.
No, "M$" does not pay a large share of salaries as stock options. Please provide proof of thi
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I mean, those aren't even well done, never mind funny or even worth looking at. Do you hang out at 4chan? What am I saying, at least the /b/ doodles tend to be well done and actually funny. "Pathetically stupid" is a good way to describe these.
Oh, if only it were 98 again. Ha ha ha. (Score:2)
1999 called, he wants his doom predictions back. "XP is not selling, everyone is sticking with 2000, Microsoft will go bankrupt soon" and so on and so forth.
Ballmer would be dancing in the streets if Vista was doing as well as XP did, but it's not. There's a steady decline here and Vista is right in line.
Tell your boss. (Score:2)
those were some of the worst Photoshopped images I've ever seen.
They were made like QDOS, the Quick and Dirty Operating System M$ has made it's fortune shoving in everyone's face. Think old Bill would like to buy these too?
Re:Microsoft Says (Score:4, Insightful)
If people dont want Vista then I cant see their sales being very high.
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No, VISTA is NOT a "casualty" of bad reviews, because most pre-release and just released reviews had been good. They've been good because they were bought off. How quickly you seem to have forgotten, for example, the free laptop fiasco which saw several journalists and bloggers receiving free Ferreira laptops in exchange for writing good reviews about VISTA. One has to wonder what "gifts" Microsoft sycophants like Rob Enderle and Laura Didio go