Microsoft Responds to DOT Ban on Vista, Office, IE

roscoetoon writes "From the blog of Mary Jo Foley: What's Microsoft's response to the DOT's charges? A corporate spokeswoman sent this statement, via e-mail: (caution: microbrain double-speak ahead) ... "We respect the customer's decision. As with any of our other Federal customers, it's our job to help DOT maximize the value of its Enterprise Agreement through the adoption of our technology. We are engaged with large, strategic customers across government at every level, and are working closely with them on these products through their participation in our Technical Adoption Programs.""

Dramatic improvements?

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

"Windows Vista, Office 2007, and IE7 are widely recognized by independent analysts to offer dramatic improvements in security, management features, new collaboration capabilities and productivity enhancements.

That's UAC, Ribbons & (still) broken CSS respectively ;-)

Re:Dramatic improvements?

[Anonymous Coward]

After the incident on Mars, I will never trust the UAC again.

Allow or Deny...

[flyingfsck]

"independent analysts to offer dramatic improvements in security"
Allow or Deny?

That, I guess is the new 'Abort, Retry or Fail?'.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

In the old days I saw some edited command.com files.

'Abortion, Retch, or Vomit?'

'AAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUGGGGGHHH!!'

Re:

[xtracto]

Nice joke, although you couldnt have dont that unless the words you put had the same length than the words you where replacing. I know because I did something like that and from the way the text is saved in a .COM file (strings at the end of the file) you could hex-edit them but they where all concatenated and just separated by the \0 EOS character.

Nice joke anyway =o)

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

Speaking as one of the CIO's in attendance at that event, I was not impressed. Seeing windows try to look like a mac is a wonderful step forward as they embrace the user instead of the function but the UAC is just ridiculous. I can bet less than 20% of our employees will even look at those popups before clicking on anything that makes it go away.

Re:

[RMH101]

Your *employees* shouldn't even SEE those warnings. Their machine should be locked down so they can't harm it, and the permissions tweaked so that their daily computing tasks are allowed, and potentially harmful stuff is denied.

Re:

[RMH101]

I mean like a *correctly configured* box. Sure, could be a Unix one. Doesn't matter what OS - your end users shouldn't be presented with an opportunity to screw up the system by clicking the wrong response.

Watch out

[Simple-Simmian]

That's pr speak for we are going to Congress and MAKE you buy it little man!

Re:Watch out

[CityZen]

Alternate versions:

-We're going to make them an offer they can't refuse.

-Once you join the family, you can never leave.

Re:Watch out

[rajafarian]

"... it's our job to help DOT maximize the value of its Enterprise Agreement through the adoption of our technology..."

"You forget, we already have your money."

Re:

[Divebus]

Hi. We're from Microsoft and we're here to help you.

Re:Watch out

[theshowmecanuck]

I'm not sure if anyone should have marked this funny. It seems so close to what is likely to happen that it should be marked insightful (but only because there is no category titled "scary as hell").

Re:

[LaughingCoder]

Wrong. Take a look at this web page (URL:http://www.newsmeat.com/billionaire_political _donations/Bill_Gates.php) that shows roughly balanced contributions by Gates to *both* parties. Microsoft (and Gates) are way too smart to tie themselves to a single party. They balance their contributions to keep all their bases covered.

Re:

[LaughingCoder]

Ugggh. Must preview. Must preview. I forgot the brackets on the above URL. Sorry.

http://www.newsmeat.com/billionaire_political_dona tions/Bill_Gates.php [newsmeat.com]

Really?

[zappepcs]

FTFA: "Windows Vista, Office 2007, and IE7 are widely recognized by independent analysts to offer dramatic improvements in security, management features, new collaboration capabilities and productivity enhancements. Ultimately we think we can help DOT understand how these products can help its enterprise organization.

Q: When did MS start using truly independent analysts? Would that part of the statement be necessary if they had no reputation for using paid shills?

FTFA: "As DOT goes through the natural process of exploring the new capabilities of these products we expect they will continue to embrace Windows and Office as the departmental standard of DOT.

Q: Doesn't she mean that "they will eventually be forced to once again drink the koolaid?"

FTFA: "Overall our government customers are excited about the technology as well as our product pipeline.

Q: Does anyone else remember that old Chinese curse? "May your life be exciting!"

FTFA: Just last week more than 500 Public Sector CIOs from across the country joined us for our annual US Public Sector CIO Summit.

- 500 guests for free food and drink and hopefully cheaper software != 500 new customers.

FTFA: The Summit offered these CIOs to see firsthand how Microsoft is working to be a strategic partner to government and educational institutions of every size."

- They obviously didn't spend much time on all the govt. agencies, schools, even countries that are not interested in using MS products anymore. A sales pitch is a sales pitch. I hope they got some good swag!

Re:Really?

[JohnnyGTO]

I think thats "May you live in interesting times."

In a speech in Cape Town, South Africa, on June 7, 1966, Robert F. Kennedy said, "There is a Chinese curse which says, "May he live in interesting times." Like it or not, we live in interesting times..." Journalists picked up the phrase and it has become a commonplace.

However, the popularity of this "Chinese curse" puzzles Chinese scholars, who have only heard it from Americans. If it is of Chinese origin, it has somehow escaped the literature, although it may be a paraphrase of a liberal translation from a Chinese source, and therefore unrecognizable when translated back to Chinese. It might be related to the Chinese proverb, "It's better to be a dog in a peaceful time than be a man in a chaotic period."

Stephen DeLong, who has been researching this quotation for several years and details his quest on his own website, has traced the quotation back to a 1950 science fiction story: "U-Turn" by Duncan H. Munro, a pseudonym for Eric Frank Russell.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

It'd be nice if you credited that information [noblenet.org].

Re:

[cayenne8]

"Ah! So it falls into the same category as the "Chinese" food served in American Chinese restaurants which bears no resemblance to any food served in China."

What????

You mean they don't have the sweet and sour chicken right next to the pizza in the buffets over there?

:-)

Re:

[Stephen Samuel]

Q: When did MS start using truly independent analysts? Would that part of the statement be necessary if they had no reputation for using paid shills?

You obviously aren't using the MS definition of "independent". It's the industry standard, you know.

Q: Doesn't she mean that "they will eventually be forced to once again drink the koolaid?"

Just like most other Open Source Long Haired Smellies(tm).. there you go violating other people's trademarks again.

Q: Does anyone else remember that old Chinese curse? "May your life be exciting!"

Exciting and very, very pretty. Just sign here on the dotted line, and you'll have all the excitement you'll ever want.

- 500 guests for free food and drink and hopefully cheaper software != 500 new customers.

450 new customers, and 50 shills. (oops! did I say that out loud?)

- They obviously didn't spend much time on all the govt. agencies, schools, even countries that are not interested in using MS products anymore. A sales pitch is a sales pitch. I hope they got some good swag!

As much as it takes. We don't have billions of dollars for nothing, you know.

Re:Really?

[Stephen Samuel]

Did Microsoft actually SAY anything?

Yes:
"We are The Borg, you will comply." It's right there in between the lines.

Translation...

[doormat]

We got their money because they're on a subscription. So we really dont care what they do. Random PR speak about how great our stuff is anyways.

Re:Translation...

[cmacb]

Alternate translation:

"it's our job to help DOT maximize the value of its Enterprise Agreement through the adoption of our technology. We are engaged with large, strategic customers across government at every level,"

really means:

It's our job to sabotage this in any way possible, but we haven't adopted a strategy just yet. If necessary we will go to your boss, or your boss's boss, including, if necessary our many opportunities to influence the law in our favor.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB117328195388829568 .html?mod=djemTECH [wsj.com]

Another alternative translation

[jd]

"The Federal budget probably goes through our software. Hell, the DoT's bank probably uses our software, as do all of the archiving services that track DoT's backup tapes, the DoT's leased-line providers, the DoT's managers' home computers, the DoT's managers' children's school computers... If the DoT knows what's good for it, it will obey without question every instruction we give them on what to buy and when to buy it. Money is to be in used notes, have non-consecutive serial numbers and be deposited in t

Re:Translation...

[ocbwilg]

Actually, the statement:

As with any of our other Federal customers, it's our job to help DOT maximize the value of its Enterprise Agreement through the adoption of our technology.

Means:

What do we care? They have an Enterprise agreement, which means they're paying us the same annual fee whether they decide to take advantage of their upgrade rights or not. Eventually they'll get onboard and move to Vista and Office 2007, and after that they'll move to whatever we ship next.

Buzzword Bingo

[Ctrl+Alt+De1337]

...it's our job to help DOT maximize the value of its Enterprise Agreement through the adoption of our technology. We are engaged with large, strategic customers across government at every level, and are working closely with them on these products through their participation in our Technical Adoption Programs.

Um, Mrs. Foley? Bingo, ma'am.

with apologies to Scott Adams

Well...

[7of7]

Actually for anyone who's actually tried Vista and Office 2k7 it is clear that there are massive improvements in security, stability, and most importantly ease of use. I haven't shut down my Vista box since I installed it almost 2 months ago and it's still snappy even on a Pentium M with 1GB of RAM. What's more important is that the intuitive interface and time saving features such as searching and sorting significantly decrease the time spent mucking around with the OS and leave you to do your work. As such Vista would have a huge impact in increasing productivity not only through its stability but through the amount someone can get done with it relative to XP, its only real competition. Further, Office 2k7 has similar improvements which allow you to get more things done quicker. Instead of digging blindly through cascading menus the things you need most are there on the ribbon when you need them. The instant preview feature means less guesswork when applying formatting. There are scores of other usability improvements that in total allow me to save a significant amount of time. As a bonus it loads and runs much quicker than OO.o ever did on the same box in Ubuntu. Those are simple facts. Those people claiming Vista and Office 2k7 are somehow not ready for the big time are sadly mistaken and perhaps shouldn't be in charge of making decisions when their decisions will amount to their companies and governments missing the opportunity to dramatically increase their productivity.

Re:Well...

[heyyou_overhere]

I have also been running vista for two months straight without restarting it. Office 2007 runs great on my computer, and I am especially impressed by the ri- Oooh look! A shiny coin!

Re:

[geminidomino]

I haven't shut down my Vista box since I installed it almost 2 months ago and it's still snappy even on a Pentium M with 1GB of RAM.

Probably because it won't let you. Next time, try saying "Master, May I?"

Re:Well...

[anomalous cohort]

anyone who's actually tried Vista and Office 2k7 it is clear that there are massive improvements in security, stability, and most importantly ease of use

I, personally, believe that menus improve ease of use on a windowing application. Many menus appear to be either removed or cleverly hidden in Vista, IE7, and Office 2k7.

Re:

[korbin_dallas]

Uh, 'cleverly hidden' is not exactly what I want in software thanks.

Re:Well...

[_merlin]

You're a troll, but I'll bite.

Actually for anyone who's actually tried Vista and Office 2k7 it is clear that there are massive improvements in security, stability, and most importantly ease of use.

Straight out ridiculous assertion. I use it because I have to for compatibility testing at work. It is anything but easier to use. MS had it right as close to right as they ever have with 2003 server. Now they've moved everything around for no good reason in Vista, so we have to re-learn everything. Some things are just silly now, including, but limited to:

• Some menus drop down and some expand to the right, which is inconsistent. Also, the ones that expand to the right obscure the titles of other menus, making it harder to navigate.
• Some menu bars are above toolbars and some are below. Irritating inconsistency.
• Some explorer windows have no titles, so you can't tell what they are when they're minimised.
• Control panels have been renamed for no good reason making them harder to find.
• Many views have less empty space, making them look "busy" or "crowded" and harder to find things.
• Supplied desktop pictures all cause eyestrain after extended use.

I haven't shut down my Vista box since I installed it almost 2 months ago and it's still snappy even on a Pentium M with 1GB of RAM.

People said the same things about XP. Anecdotes then are the same as anecdotes now. Just because it's been stable for you means nothing. You haven't said what you actually do with the machine.

What's more important is that the intuitive interface and time saving features such as searching and sorting significantly decrease the time spent mucking around with the OS and leave you to do your work.

Searching the start menu is only a huge time-saver in Vista because they've made it completely impractical to use with a mouse. Instead of thinking about improving the start menu, they crippled it and added a search box as compensation. See my previous comments about dubious UI "improvements".

As such Vista would have a huge impact in increasing productivity not only through its stability but through the amount someone can get done with it relative to XP, its only real competition.

See above for my comments on stability and usability. Also, Mac OS X, Linux, Solaris and to a lesser extent, AIX are all very real competition. At home I have no Windows PCs. All Mac and Sun, and I'm very happy with them. At work I have a Windows PC for compiling and testing. For everything else (including editing source code that's compiled on the PC), I have Macs.

Further, Office 2k7 has similar improvements which allow you to get more things done quicker. Instead of digging blindly through cascading menus the things you need most are there on the ribbon when you need them. The instant preview feature means less guesswork when applying formatting. There are scores of other usability improvements that in total allow me to save a significant amount of time.

I haven't used it enough to comment on this, but if it's anything like the "improvements" in Vista, it probably makes life harder.

As a bonus it loads and runs much quicker than OO.o ever did on the same box in Ubuntu. Those are simple facts.

You have a point there. OO.o is bloated and slow. Thing is, I never need most of office or OO.o - HTML and LaTeX/PDF are better for 90% of tasks. I do however use Visio a bit.

Those people claiming Vista and Office 2k7 are somehow not ready for the big time are sadly mistaken and perhaps shouldn't be in charge of making decisions when their decisions will amount to their companies and governments missing the opportunity to dramatically increase their productivity.

Another ridiculous asser

Re:Well...

[sumdumass]

Quite your complaining.

Did I mention Novell and GPLv3 recently?

That should keep you busy for a while.

Re:

[drsmithy]

See above for my comments on stability and usability. Also, Mac OS X, Linux, Solaris and to a lesser extent, AIX are all very real competition.

Now you're just trolling. In what market of any consequence (or inconsequence for that matter) are Solaris and AIX (AIX, for fuck's sake) competitors for Windows Vista ?

Think about this for a moment: Sun Microsystems banned word processors and presentation programs in many of their divisions in 2000. They told employees to use text editors and use HTML if they n

Re:Well...

[TubeSteak]

http://www.acs.org.au/president/1996/atm/npc/im961 009.htm [acs.org.au]

National Press Club - IM Forum
Speaker: Mr Scott McNealy
President Sun Microsystems
Wednesday, 9 October 1996

"The second big investment is to upgrade your PC. I don't have any reason why we would want to do that, but, think about it - do we really need more spreadsheets? Do we really need more word processors? I just S we did a survey at Sun. We had 12.9 gigabytes of Powerpoint slides in storage on our disk drives. Ha ha ha. It freaks me out just to think about. Do you how many person sentries that is? Of clip-art manipulations? I banned Powerpoint from our company - I just edicted it."

Earlier in that article, he mentions how he's only ever used word processors with four features: "backspace, delete, cut and paste and print"

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-19294279.html [encyclopedia.com]
Chief Executive Magazine
Date: 3/1/1997
Computing's second Punic war.
(interview with Sun Microsystems CEO Scott McNealy)

"Personally, I got so frustrated with clip art and presentation graphics that I banned Power Point from our company 10 months ago. Our earnings have skyrocketed and our stock price has nearly doubled since that time. I have seen absolutely nothing but productivity gained by banning word processors with more than four features and Power Point-like graphics, or presentations graphics programs."

Re:

[TapeCutter]

"Earlier in that article, he mentions how he's only ever used word processors with four features: "backspace, delete, cut and paste and print"

...and then goes on to prove it...

"Do you how many person sentries that is?"

Re:

[drsmithy]

As I suspected. Your "evidence" is basically the equvalent of Bill Gates saying "piracy is down 30% since we rolled out WGA".

Re:

[throx]

Mostly good points, but I take exception to the comment about the search box on the start menu. If you've only used XP and Vista for testing you probably don't have that much on your start menu. Once you use your machine for some time and have a good assortment of tools collected, finding things in the start menu even in XP (or 2003) does take a significant time.

Being able to hit the "Window" key, start typing and hit enter when I know it's enough to hit the item I want out of the start menu is a massive

Re:

[throx]

The search box searches the start menu first, then the file system (at least the parts you've marked as indexable) for other programs/documents etc. It fills these in if you wait, but putting the start menu hits first seems a decent UI trade-off.

Re:

[trix7117]

While I'm still pushing anyone who asks my opinion towards OS X instead of Vista, I do agree that Vista/Office 2007 are improvements on XP/2003 (assuming you're system can handle the Vista system requirements). I received a copy of Office 2007 at a recent MS launch event and am happy with it. However, there is a definite learning curve for people who are used to using XP.

Today I watched a co-worker spend 15 minutes (no exaggeration) trying to figure out how to print a Word document (I finally showed hi

Re:

[jeevesbond]

Was the labotomy painful?

Perhaps you'd care to read an article [it-enquirer.com] on how Vista is less intuitive than previous versions? Perhaps a simple Google search [google.com] would sway your opinion on Vista being slow? What about one of the countless articles on the net advising that Office 2007 has no added value [itwire.com.au], just a steep learning curve?

No? Didn't think so.

The reason, Mr Shill (and I hope you're getting paid for this), all these companies are refusing to upgrade is that all this won't actually give them any greater func

Re:

[sumdumass]

You do remeber all those Total Cost of Ownership studies that microsoft flipped around a while back to show us that switching to linix is more expensive then staying with windows?

Well, The vista upgrade will equalize everything and possibly place linux in the value side now (hardware performance). Expect microsoft to do a lot more then this. (seen anything about novell and the GPLv3 lately? I wonder why)

Astroturf?

[BillGatesLoveChild]

> You forgot "Copywrite 2007, Microsoft Corporation Inc. All rights reserved"

I started to wonder about that, and checked 7of7's journal. All I found was this:

"Well, I've have the newest flight of Dapper for a while now. This time I'm making a concerted effort to try and use it for an extended period of time. They recommend that it not be used as a primary desktop and I can see why. There are some serious problems. ... All the variants of Linux seem very promising at first, but they just keep coming up wi

Re:

[livewire98801]

Hey now, that's not very nice to those of us in the Seattle area that don't pray to Lord Gates and Lord Ballmer. . . I find it amusing that about half the billboards I see have Microsoft ads on them. The number has increased since Vista's launch, but even the Zune billboards are everywhere. Even in their home court, Microsoft is playing Defence in this quarter.

Since the modding is definatley pro-MS on /. today, I'll prolly burn in karma hell for this, but oh well. . .

Re:

[BillGatesLoveChild]

Don't cringe, LiveWire. Stand Proud! Made-in-Seattle Astroturf *is* the best money can buy. :-) It can selling anything. You could wrap something small and brown that fits in the palm of your hand and eventually it'll sell in droves. (I'm not sure if I am thinking of the Zune or something else small and brown... ;-)

> billboards are everywhere. Even in their home court, Microsoft is playing Defence in this quarter.

I don't understand why. Microsoft could stick up billboards calling me all sorts of nasty na

Re:

[BillGatesLoveChild]

That's not a response. If you disagree with my logic, say why.

Re:

[drsmithy]

That's not a response. If you disagree with my logic, say why.

What logic ? You're basically saying; "I don't think anyone could possibly like Vista, therefore you are lying". That's not logic, it's biased opinion.

Re:

[ronanbear]

oh please, 7of7? That's borg if ever I saw borg.

Re:

[drsmithy]

Anytime somebody on the net unequivocally praises something, or has only strawman objections, odds on its a lying marketing asshole.

So you're saying 90% of Linux advocacy and Microsoft criticism is from "marketing assholes" ?

Re:

[pembo13]

This my friends is what money pays for: good astroturfers and slashdot modders.

Re:

[speculatrix]

he intuitive interface and time saving features such as searching and sorting significantly decrease the time spent mucking around with the OS

didn't a recent study find that Vista was less productive than XP? And wasn't XP supposed to be more secure, better and easier to use than 2000?

I think Vista might be more *fun* to use than XP, which in turn had more visual toys than 2000. Even if it were a bit more productive than XP, most competent staff and managers are about as productive as they can ever be

Re:Well...

[MightyMartian]

Implementing new software (and let's be blunt, new hardware) for critical applications without adequately testing it would be nuts. What's more, governments have these things called budgets, and the hardware demands of Vista likely mean busting it, for little in perceived benefit. I mean really here. What does Vista or Office 2007 offer that's so wonderful that a manager is going to blow his budget and risk the stability of his existing systems?

Beyond that, this is not the wonderous positive message I'm getting from those who are heavily into MS. They're telling me there's no compelling reason to upgrade, and that the risks of incompatibilities with existing software is still very much real. As a general policy, most IT departments I know err on the side of caution, waiting at least until the first service pack before rolling out the upgrades. As well, where a substantial reinvestment in hardware (upgrades and replacement) is required, I can well imagine many managers are going to say no way. Let's not even talk about licensing costs.

Re:Well...

[Maxo-Texas]

As much as I dislike Microsoft- I dislike Slashdot's scummy moderating other times.

This guy has as much right to express his opinion as anyone and it's shitty and cowardly to mod him down just because he's pro-microsoft.

I personally am happy with OOO2.1 which finally loads my most complicated documents and I can see the day that I leave microsoft behind entirely approaching rapidly.

I mean -- come on-- $1300 for full office- maybe $200 for the "discount"- with vendor lock-in by microsoft and a stated preference that they want to go to software as service in the future.

Compared to ... $000 for the full OOO and $0 for the discounted version and it will continue to be free in the future. AND my bloody documents in OOO are about 1MB smaller on average than in Word 2003.

Re:

[caluml]

I dislike Slashdot's scummy moderating other times.

I don't think the fault lies with the moderating system. I think it lies with the moderators.
Do you get mod points every now and then? Trawl through the -1 nonsense to check that nothing of value has been dropped? I tried it. But it's like searching sewers full of - well, sewage - for a nice sandwich that you want to eat. It's just not worth it.
Too often though, people use moderating to indicate if they agree or not.

Re:

[codepunk]

Its called /. not c:\

Re:

[haraldm]

Further, Office 2k7 has similar improvements which allow you to get more things done quicker.

I have been waiting for this to happen since I used Word 5.5 on DOS. With every release, M$ have been promising "this time, we did it right", and Word 2003 just doesn't cut it. Most of the time when I open a .doc file, it sits and does obscure things before showing me the document, independent on how small the file is. I'm currently working on a 24-page document with 3 or 4 embedded PNG images, and scrolling through

At least temporaraly

[Mycroft_514]

We have a total ban on those same products here. And we are a fortune 10 company.

As for home use, I looked at the upgrade path. I ran the checkout program provided by Microsoft. It tells me: Both printers not supported, both scanners not supported, my external hard drive (160GB) not supported, and elements of my LAN not supported.

In follow up, I have tracked down that for 1 scanner and both printers, the vender (HP) has ALREADY declared they will NOT be releasing updated drivers. The other scanner, I have to upgrade the software for (Nikon). The other items I have no word on yet.

Also, I have a Laptop with 2GB of memory and that isn't enough to run Vista well? WTF? And looking at the new feature list from MS. I don't want them wasting all that memory on the file search process. Nor do I want the DRM, so what exactly is Vista giving me besides grief?

Re:

[TheSpoom]

Well...
(Score:2, Interesting)
by 7of7 (956694)

Yeesh, you could at least TRY to hide your membership in the collective.

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Funny...

[Anonymous Coward]

We were just talking about Lice and their hosts [slashdot.org]...

In other words...

[fahrbot-bot]

...it's our job to help DOT maximize the value of its Enterprise Agreement through the adoption of our technology...

We are Microsoft. Lower your Firewalls and surrender your systems. We will add your cultural and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your IT departments will adapt to service us.

Resistance is futile.

Re:In other words...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, you beat me to that one. But I have another:

"I have maximized the value of our Enterprise Agreement. Pray I do not maximize it further."

Re:

[tehSpork]

"This deal just keeps getting worse all the time."

"Attention! This is Lando Calrissian, Microsoft has taken control of the city. I advise everyone to leave the city before more copies of Vista arrive."

To quote a recent TV ad...

[Hawthorne01]

"Yes, I have a response: 'Uhhh, what?' "

Even Intel is waiting on Vista SP1

[Taelron]

Heck, even Intel, whom Microsoft laudes as a partner in embracing Vista has publicly stated that they, as a corporation, will not even install Vista on their computers until after SP1 is released... So now you have a technology partner publicly stating they wont be so quick to upgrade either... http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/03/07/intel_wati ng_to_go_vista/ [reghardware.co.uk]

Re:

[Afecks]

That's kind of ironic since adoption of Vista means more people needing newer processors which means more business for Intel. However, since this is coming from the Register, I'll have to assume that they were making the decision based on an IT stand point and not a marketing stand point. That just gives more credibility to the decision.

***WARNING PERSONAL OPINIONS AHEAD***

Speaking as a Vista owner, unless you're building a new PC from scratch with hardware that says "Vista capable" on the box, forget it. U

Re:

[Stephen Samuel]

That's kind of ironic since adoption of Vista means more people needing newer processors which means more business for Intel.

It's one thing to eat your own dog food.

It's another thing, entirely, to eat someone else's dog food when it's gone bad.

Re:

[rbanffy]

"It was hard to bite the bullet and give up my Windows standard theme. Now that I have though it makes OS X look like an afterthought."

Are sure you ever used a Mac before?

Well... I have. My main computer runs Linux and Gnome, but sitting next to it is an iMac running 10.4 and I can tell you every little bit of it transpires the attention Apple pays to detail. From the extreme elegance of Exposé and the graceful way it solves the ages-long problem of having too many windows - to the minimalism of the sc

Re:

[Afecks]

Are sure you ever used a Mac before?

Yes I'm sure. I have one for testing purposes. I've seen transparency but what Aero does is almost like this glass effect [wikipedia.org]. It's the best eye candy on any desktop I've seen yet. For whatever that's worth.

Re:

[rbanffy]

My original point was on the line that Vista may have shiny wheels, an airfoil, spoilers, a very powerful CD + amp and neons everywhere. Under all that make-up, it's a family sedan. It desperately cries out for attention, a cry derived from it's own long-standing feelings of inadequacy.

And a huge mountain of plain bad-taste.

The Mac, OTOH, looks like a Series 5 BMW - precise and spartan. Form serves purpose and using it is a fluid experience. You do not need to be aware of the tool unless you want it.

That is

Re:

[Afecks]

You hear "me too" but I hear "this is how it's done".

Under all that make-up is a monster truck. While I enjoy my high-res games with SLI, media center is in the background recording Mythbusters. That's something you can't do in OS X. As a bonus, now Windows actually looks good while doing it. This is the worst thing that could ever happen to OS X. Now there's basically zero incentive to switch.

Re:

[FractalZone]

Heck, even Intel, whom Microsoft laudes as a partner in embracing Vista has publicly stated that they, as a corporation, will not even install Vista on their computers until after SP1 is released...

Intel has been around longer than Micro$loth. Intel has been truly technologically innovative at several times --- something Micro$loth has never really accomplished often. M$ is desperate to have its buggy bloatware bundled on all new x86/x64 platforms from major vendors, and has been trying hard to distanc

Re:

[gad_zuki!]

Any company that considers upgrading before SP1 and without a considerable amount of testing is being more than slightly irresponsible. This isnt a slight against MS, its just being normally cautious. Corporate IT isnt like being a home user who just wants the latest releases, damn the consequences.

Translation

[Joebert]

(caution: microbrain double-speak ahead) ... "We respect the customer's decision. As with any of our other Federal customers, it's our job to help DOT maximize the value of its Enterprise Agreement through the adoption of our technology. We are engaged with large, strategic customers across government at every level, and are working closely with them on these products through their participation in our Technical Adoption Programs.""

The DOT, being responsible for entities like the FAA & other departme

Nothing New Really

[jascat]

Federal agencies are typically slow to pick up on new versions of Office and Windows. Currently, the US Air Force has a moratorium on IE7 and has since it came out citing security issues. Neither Vista nor Office 2k7 are approved for use on Air Force networks...yet. They have to be certified to be safe and secure to use on unclassified and classified networks. This is normal. Eventually, and unfortunately in my opinion, the moratorium will be lifted and approval will be given. It's more of a question of when, rather than if.

Remember DOT wants broken ie6

[oneeyedelf1]

Remember the reason the DOT doesn't want to upgrade is because it needs ie6 compatibility for its websites. So because ie7 is better towards standards they won't use it. And the reasons that Office and Vista are lumped in there is because they upgrade to ie7. Frankly I wish the websites were better so the DOT had the option of upgrading to a better version of windows, or even the possibility of changing to another operating system.

DOT may already be paying for Vista

[Animats]

..it's our job to help DOT maximize the value of its Enterprise Agreement through the adoption of our technology.

In other words, DOT is already paying for Vista, even if they're not using it. Remember how Microsoft enterprise-level "software assurance" works. You pay by the year, upgrade or not.

Re:

[drsmithy]

In other words, DOT is already paying for Vista, even if they're not using it. Remember how Microsoft enterprise-level "software assurance" works. You pay by the year, upgrade or not.

IE: it's exactly the same as Red Hat Enterprise Linux.

Re:

[greenbird]

IE: it's exactly the same as Red Hat Enterprise Linux.

No, it's not. With RedHat I just pay for a server. I can have 5000 clients accessing that server without paying a dime for each client accessing the server not to mention being able to use something cheap or even free on the clients. Oh, and I can switch to Suse or Ubuntu without have to completely rebuild all my information systems and apps from scratch.

Re:

[drsmithy]

No, it's not. With RedHat I just pay for a server. I can have 5000 clients accessing that server without paying a dime for each client accessing the server not to mention being able to use something cheap or even free on the clients.

Completely and utterly irrelevant. The criticism is that Microsoft has a yearly charge, "regardless of whether or not you upgrade". Most commercial OSS follows - indeed, pretty much has to follow - the same model. Presumably OP feels the same way about them, so why single o

Re:

[strider44]

Red Hat isn't mentioned anywhere in the article, so what's your point?

Re:

[drsmithy]

Red Hat isn't mentioned anywhere in the article, so what's your point?

The OP is groundlessly criticising a quite common and reasonable - especially for commercial OSS - practice.

Re:

[Lehk228]

pay by year is a good thing. it REMOVES incentive for the vendor to push bullshit upgrades that harm system usability. it also removes incentive for the customer to hold off on needed upgrades due to cost concerns.

Re:

[DavidD_CA]

Microsoft and it's distributors do not force anyone to buy Software Assurance.

If this client bought SA, they did so because they expected to upgrade to Vista/2007 in the future.

Red Dawn for the DOT

[AHuxley]

In Capitalist West it's your job to help MS maximize the value of its Enterprise Agreement.
In Soviet Russia Enterprise Agreement maximize the value of tap on you.

8:44 A.M. A full scale corporate invasion by foreign applications begins. Total surprise. Almost total success. A gang of PR suits become the last line of defense.

Reading Microsoft's reply...

[trudyscousin]

...I had to be certain I was not reading the subject of the previous Slashdot story, "The Coevolution of Lice & Their Hosts."

Embarassed?

[ichbineinneuben]

How can they say things like this with a straight face? Saying they "respect the customer's decision" then following it up by saying it's their job to foist Windows on them regardless? Where's the respect in that? Whatever else this statement may mean, it disrespects the intelligence of any reader.

"Microbrain double-speak"?

[Tim C]

Are we actively trying to appear childish now?

The place for commentary is down here with us unwashed masses, in the comments, where it can be moderated and replied to properly. It's bad enough that the editors do it, can we at least avoid submitors doing it please?

Re:

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

It's bad enough that the editors do it, can we at least avoid submitors doing it please?

Wot? You seriously want the editors to aspire to submitor standards?

Oooo... telling statement...

[advocate_one]

Ultimately we think we can help DOT understand how these products can help its enterprise organization.

it means that they'll have their salesmen round taking the high mucky-mucks out on all expenses paid trips to Vista seminars in exotic places... and if that doesn't work, they'll send out the boys with the key to the slush-fund chest to make sure Linux doesn't "win"... they'd pay the DOT to prevent that...

Tag: weaselwords

[caluml]

Tag: weaselwords ?

The first suspicion.....

[mormop]

has to be that this is a Microsoft price reducing move but I'd just love to see MS have the balls for once to call their bluff so we can see what happens.

DoT: We're looking at Linux

MS: Go on then!

DoT: Huh?......

MS: Go on then, piss off if you think your up to it.

DoT: ?!?!?!

Re:

[frogstar_robot]

The "Linux Discount Tactic" works because Linux is (like it or not) a credible and possible alternative to Windows. A Linux switchover doesn't necessarily have to be cheap or easy or even make everybody ecstatically happy when it is done. It simply has to be possible to get work done. If sufficient effort didn't make a Linux deployment possible then MS wouldn't take it seriously when customers announce a switch.

MS really doesn't dare call such a bluff. The reverse is also true: Don't threaten MS with

Public Service: Translation Into Honest

[Dystopian Rebel]

As a service to the citizens of Slashdot, here is my translation from Marketing into Honest of the Microsoft reply:

"We respect the customer's decision. As with any of our other Federal customers, it's our job to help DOT maximize the value of its Enterprise Agreement through the adoption of our technology. We are engaged with large, strategic customers across government at every level, and are working closely with them on these products through their participation in our Technical Adoption Programs."

In HONEST: Many of our senior people have violently expectorated their coffee. A bunch of us wrote this ghastly response, but actually thought it was good, which shows you how bad things are around here. So the decision has been made to send our most attractive people on-site with special expense accounts and at least one carry-on valise full of lubricant.

"Windows Vista, Office 2007, and IE7 are widely recognized by independent analysts to offer dramatic improvements in security, management features, new collaboration capabilities and productivity enhancements. Ultimately we think we can help DOT understand how these products can help its enterprise organization.

In HONEST: Our accoun

Getting rid of MS

[Anonymous Coward]

FYI: I work for a government agency that works closely with DOT.

"We respect the customer's decision. As with any of our other Federal customers, it's our job to help DOT maximize the value of its Enterprise Agreement through the adoption of our technology. We are engaged with large, strategic customers across government at every level, and are working closely with them on these products through their participation in our Technical Adoption Programs."

"We respect the customer's decision. ..."
Bullshit! When w

Standard operating procedure...

[pointbeing]

I work for an agency under DoD. Vista, OFfice 2007 and IE7 are also verboten here.

Government geels in decisiomaking capacity don't get into beta programs and it's easier to ban a software package than learn how to support it.

Come on, what else it would say publicly?

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

You can bet it is not going to crow, "All your bases are belong to us". It will make such innocuous statements. If it is a private company it will offer deep discounts, (like 75$ for 1150$ list price product offered to Australian students). In the public sector, it will go over the head and talk to the White House, Congress and Senate (both parties) and make them buy it at list price or have him replaced soon.

Re:

[mgiuca]

Hm... did you hear of Windows ME? :P

Re:

[canuck57]

3.11 was better than 3.1, Win95 was better than Win3.1 and so on....But was Windoze anytime the best in security protection. I dont think so.

It has however become more complex and harder to deal with. In fact, Windows security may have increased because of the obscurity of complexity. But in time as it is understood it will be the same old Virus Infested Spyware Trojaned with Adware like the rest. The next version is reputed to be Hasta.

Re:

[mgiuca]

Or ... maybe ... like ... get firefox?

(But yes, IE 7 > IE 6 on standards compliance, so that's a good thing for web designers who can't choose what software the zombies use).