Microsoft Recalls Small Business Server 237
dasButcher writes to tell us VarBusiness is reporting that hot on the heels of many other delays, Microsoft has recalled their Small Business Server 2003 R2. The operating system started shipping to OEMs, distributors, and systems builders in July but was immediately recalled after a recent audit.
Huh - did it explode in a fireball? (Score:5, Funny)
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Where should we start?... Umm, ok, let's see...
Viruses;
Worms;
Breaking hardware by using software (like, stoppid CPU's fan);
Other things...
Therac 25 (Score:5, Informative)
Sinclair ZX81 ads of the 1980s (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Sinclair ZX81 ads of the 1980s (Score:4, Informative)
a PLC tends to have memory in the 1 - 4k range and racks full of IO cards. If I remember correctly the z80 cpu could address 64k of address's as I/O or memory.
1 bit is all it takes to operate a valve or a motor or read a sensor.
8-16 bits for an analog input or output.
while the ad's seem far fetched in reality the PLC's actually being used will not be that far removed from a ZX81.
for further reading try googling for words like wonderware allen bradley omron SCADA.
simple PLC's run most of the worlds automated processes.
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"Oh my God! The plant's going to explode!"
"Wait, I know: (typing) vent gas."
"Pressure too high?"
"Tank must be shut down manually?"
"Oh, stupid bird! I never should have put you in charge!"
"Ohhh, who am I kidding? It's all my fault!"
'I've got to call the plant and warn them!"
(phone beeping - automated message)
The fingers you have used to dial are too fat. To obtain a special dialing wand, please mash the keypad with your palm now.
"Aaah!"
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Yeah, I guess the software used in airplane avionics isn't too important. Hopefully Boeing doesn't use SBS ;)
Re:Huh - did it explode in a fireball? (Score:5, Funny)
At least they caught it (Score:4, Informative)
where did you read that? (Score:2)
"The operating system actually had begun shipping to manufacturing partners
was: Re:At least they caught it
Re:where did you read that? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:where did you read that? (Score:5, Insightful)
No it doesn't actually say *no* end users it says *most* and most does not equate to all. You should realize that most PR statements don't actually mean what the words mean.
"it basically said that in the part you left out:" - kjart
"None went to end users" - dreamchaser
The actual words are:
"Most of Microsoft's voluminous partner base did not have copies of SBS 2003 R2 in hand yet"
In other words some of Microsoft's voluminous partner base did have it. And seeing its a PR statement out of Redmond we can assume the reality is a lot more than a few got copies got out.
This fella seems to think he bought a new server that has the R2 edition on it.
http://snipurl.com/v9i1 [snipurl.com]
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.w
No one has still replied to my request for an explanation of what non-final core components mean. Is this the same as bugs?
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or they are just bugs... (Score:2)
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Yeah, as he already said, it basically said that in the part you left out:
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Re:At least they caught it (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:At least they caught it (Score:4, Insightful)
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Yeah, they're a big fish (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:At least they caught it (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, monopolies are pretty cozy. Those Exxon/BP/Shell/Total guys have not released a new product in 50 years but still haul in record profits.
Tetropoly? (n/t) (Score:2)
Microsofts gets paid (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft's profitability has little to do with its monopoly and more to do with the fact that Microsoft, virtually alone of all software vendors has created the means to insure that they get reliably paid for their software. Microsoft's trick is to make large institutions purchase their software and to aggressively make sure that the institutions pay. CPU manufactures pay for the OS and companies, schools and the government pay for Office. Suing millions of consumers for
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And there (I think) is the bigger reason for the 'recall' than a bunch of software bugs.
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Why was it recalled? (Score:4, Informative)
"This routine check of the initial software on the manufacturing line found that it contained portions of code deemed "non-final," according to Microsoft... Microsoft plans to swap in the 'final' code, then reissue Small Business Server 2003 R2 to its manufacturing partners,"
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What do you expect when your marketing department, rather than your Q&R department, pushes your software product out the door?
Non-final? (Score:4, Funny)
What's getting deleted? WinFS??? (Score:2, Interesting)
RTFA (Score:2)
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New patent application in the works? (Score:5, Funny)
1. Ship your non-ready product on the stipulated date.
2. Tell your customers your product has not met your enormously high quality standards *giggles violently*.
3. Use the time gained to make the product ready for shipping.
4. If its not ready in time see # 1.
Re:New patent application in the works? (Score:4, Insightful)
5. Profit!
Microsoft always put profit first (Score:2)
Don't be silly - Microsoft always put profit first!
Boom-boom! Thank-you, I'll be here all week, please try the fish...
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SBS made me quit my job... (Score:5, Interesting)
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Slightly off-topic, but SBS is the reason I changed my job. I leave this place at the end of the month, thank god. I support several companies, 10 of which are using SBS.
It has to be the best way of putting all of a company's eggs in one basket. It goes against everything that makes good sense about creating an available, stable network with some redundancy. If you go for the Premium edition and install everything, you'll find yourself running:
-
Re:SBS made me quit my job... (Score:4, Insightful)
It's too expensive to buy multiple boxes and too complicated (for these places where the controller/accountant does double-duty as IT guy). Don't even get me started on Linux. I'm sure it's great if you happen to have an open source guru around, but it's just not a viable option for setting up a back-end where no one has any serious tech experience. Then of course they could always just be a Mac shop - if they want to double or triple their IT infrastructure costs (ha!). Not to mention the prevalence of MS Access in small business areas.
I think you've got to hand it to MS. For about $400 you get all the software you need to run your business server, and it pretty much works out of the box. It's a whole lot better than not having anything, and as companies grow they will eventually build out the infrastructure and implement more redundancy. The "all eggs in one basket" isn't unique to just Windows SBS - it pretty much characterizes how small business works.
-stormin
Re:SBS made me quit my job... (Score:5, Interesting)
You would have to streamline everything a lot though:
- The customer isn't expected to do anything with the server. That's the support companies job (this isn't a million miles away from how a lot of these places work anyhow, so that's not a big deal).
- Installation is nailed down to "insert CD, turn system on". All the configuration is pre-done by the support company, and every customer gets the same configuration. The customer doesn't do the install anyhow, the company sends someone to site if necessary, but the fact that everything is already nailed down means that you could get away with shaving a chimpanzee, putting them in a shirt and tie and sending them out to site.
- Server hardware is specified (and usually supplied by) the support company.
- Desktops aren't heavily locked down, but are locked down enough to minimise the likelihood of someone completely hosing their system. Combine that with Ghost, and running as much as possible from the server, and the desktop support overhead almost evaporates.
You could easily charge £a few thousand per company per annum doing this - for the customer, it's a lot cheaper than paying a fulltime IT person when they probably only need a couple of man days a month, and gives them peace of mind.
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Re:SBS made me quit my job... (Score:5, Insightful)
No it doesn't. For a lot of uses, it just needs to be easy enough, and customisable enough that a company with the right expertise can seriously consider offering services based on it.
Mod points be damned (Score:3, Funny)
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Sorry, but if your network needs that many services, you need a full-time IT staff or a damn fine, 24-7-365 (read EXPEN$IVE), service contract. This isn't a toaster or a typewriter or a copier we're talking about here.
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"Don't even get me started on Linux. I'm sure it's great if you happen to have an open source guru around, but it's just not a viable option for setting up a back-end where no one has any serious tech experience."
Oh Please!...I left my home town a little over 2 years ago to take a better job 6 hrs. away. When I did, I left 2 companies that I was doing support for. One in which I had set up their network with Linux servers, and the other that had already owned a Win '03 SBS when I started. In the time si
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Speaking as a freelance IT consultant, SBS servers, esp those which haven't been imaged initially for quick restoration after everything is working right and which have been running for a few years are a *fucking disast
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I have a working SQL server running on my OBSD box - I can't imagine Debian being too different. .NET? I'm talking about small businesses here (
-b.
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That's a common misconception about multiple boxes costing more - buying one big toaster capable of handling all of the services isn't less expensive that buying 4 smaller ones. Plus you get the bonus of multiple buses for various disks.
And linux is an option now that it has become more common - 1 week of training and an extra box for the admin to muck around on = $1k. Not a bad price to avoid crippling your company for three days when your backup/mail/ldap/intranet/calendar/wins/dns/web/ro uter/file server
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One of my clients doesn't change their backup tapes because they can't be bothered with the hassle. They just leave the same backup tape in all the time. You just can't talk to these people. Not that I need to care anymore anyway.
The rest of the clients do have properly configured backups, but again, I just don't like the idea of sticking backups of an Exchange Mail Store, SQL Databases, fileshares and the system state data all on one tape (if it will fit, and if it doesn
Re:SBS made me quit my job... (Score:4, Informative)
The eggs-in-one-basket thing is inevitable in small business. As has been said before, many small businesses do not have the budget to support multiple boxes and IT/support staff. The wizards in SBS2003 make administration nearly a snap, and the rest of the process can be handled with clever automation. SBS can be the foundation of a multi-server environment -- at one site we have three, the SBS server, a TS server, and a WebServer for
First off, DO NOT RUN A SERVER ON A SINGLE HARD DRIVE. Read that again several times, repeat it, write it on a chalk board a hundred times, spell it out in your Alphabits. Even RAID1 is better than nothing.
Secondly, have a good and reliable backup solution. Tapes are great, and there are several well-priced alternatives which can provide reliability and durability. I prefer tapes, and for large installations an AIT or DLT-V4 drive is great, while smaller installations can handle DAT72.
Secondly-and-a-half, keep an up-to-date ASR tape and floppy on hand! I keep one of these for each customer locked in a fire-resistant and water-resistant media vault.
Thirdly, TEST your backup solution. Build another box, do an install and restore the backup. Make sure your plan works, lest you be caught with your pants down when it counts. VirtualPC, VMWare, etc. are great for this if you do not have extra hardware lying around. You *do* have the Action Pack, right??
Fourthly, have an action plan in place in case one of your clients (or your own site) suffers a catastrophic failure. Be ready to order new equipment, test and restore backups, and spend a day or more on-site getting things back up and running. Fire, frost, or frippery can and do happen.
Fifthly, have recovery software available. I purchased RTools a while back, with FAT, NTFS, and RAID recovery tools. Some people prefer OnTrack or some other tools. I have had great results with RTools. While not the Alpha-Omega of site recovery, such software can prove invaluable in the process. But it early, learn how to use it, and be prepared.
BTW: In reference to the issue of new hardware, REMEMBER MS LICENSING. If you build systems, STAY AWAY FROM OEM SOFTWARE. But it is cheaper, right? Yeah, until your motherboard dies and, technically, so does your OEM licensing. Buying canned systems is not so much of a problem since you can (generally) rely upon the OEM to provide an exact replacement. But if you build your own or order a custom system, things change VERY rapidly, and your favorite Socket AM motherboard may not be available for long after AM2 comes out. (Ran into this problem with a PIV 1.7 rig with the original socket. UGH!)
Attend your local InfraGard general meetings, consider becoming a member. These meetings are often very interesting, especially when they cover topics such as this. You will have a chance to learn from the processes and mistakes of your brethren in the industry. I like to hear tales of state agencies who learned lessons the hard way
In essense, you have to be a tech Boy Scout and always be prepared. I always kinda liked the term "Technology Samurai." I cannot say that I am ready for every possible disaster, but I like to think that at this point I have a good start.
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Re:SBS made me quit my job... (Score:4, Interesting)
- SMTP
- POP
- DNS
- Apache (hosting mediawiki, mantis, dotproject, phpMyAdmin)
- MySQL (for the mentioned web apps)
- A SAMBA fileserver
- DHCP
The only thing that's not in that server is the firewall... which I kept in a different machine with no services running whatsoever, except those that handle our aDSL connection (pppoe, and sshd to connect from inside the LAN).
Our setup is not great on redundancy... but we can afford a couple of days of downtime (we had to, once or twice over the years) more than we can afford doubling our setup. Our services are used by a small number of employees (six, actually) and none are critical.
If Microsoft wants to pull us away from Linux they'd have to offer a Windows Server with all they usual servers (like those you mentioned), even if they're somewhat limited to prevent being used in a large corporation (max database size, max number of clients, etc.), priced appropiately for the use we'd give it. This product sounds like what we'd need... despite some companies misusing it for some reason.
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And this is the point.
The question that management needs to answer is "Ok, lets test this. If I go unplug the One True server, right now, and leave it unplugged till end of business day, how will that impact our business?"
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What amuses me is that SBS actually goes against many of Microsoft's own recommendations. Hence you see in product documentation things like:
The incident that really put me off using SBS though was:
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And if you need to stay cheap, just get a POS HP desktop computer, put in a raid and use that as your backup. You don't have to have fancy server hardware as a backup.
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I can't stand badly-formatted posts, hence the repost. Apologies for trying to make my babbling more readable. And if I really cared about my Karma, I'd be posting here much more often than a few times per year.
Your $0.02 has been duly noted. I shall eneavour to be more careful to click Preview before posting next time. Happy now?
I feel your pain (Score:5, Insightful)
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Not to need "domain controllers" at all, IMHO. One computer per user is the norm these days - just have a "user" login and an "admin" login on each box and use a "workgroup" model. And, yes, you can still manage remotely via RDC.
-b.
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Please explain how, kthx? You can still password-protect SMB & FTP shares and possibly tunnel traffic over SSL if you're really paranoid. I'm *not* talking about the "simple filesharing" crap that's all too common in badly set up XP Pro and XP Home boxes.
-b.
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Actually, in a lot of The only advantage of having a separate username for all employees (assuming you're not running a mail/calendar server) is traceability, but if you trust your employees, that's not too much of an issue really.
Is this really different from having a single type of key for the front door instead of having ten keyholes for
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Sorry for posting twice, but my initial reply had some bad HTML in it.
Actually, in a lot of 10-or-less person businesses, everyone needs to access almost every file, with a possible exception of the financial books. So having two users named "employee" and "president" (or something similar) isn't such a horrible plan. If you create multiple
Correction (Score:2)
One of my primary problems with SBS is t
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Because the existing hardware has one PIII processor, single volume drives (no RAID) and, most importantly, isn't provided by us or maintained by ... anyone that we can work out. Making our new system entirely dependant on this one, unreliable system would be foolish in the extreme. House on sand and all that.
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Though by no means an expert, it is my understanding that this is marketed to small businesses - you know, the first S in SBS. Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I wouldn't imagine that most 'small' businesses would have the IT budget to invest in 3-5 dedicated servers and, if they did, they might not be 'small' businesses anymore and are probably not in the target market.
Perhaps you're speaking of businesses that do need multiple servers to fill their needs and can afford it. In cases like that I wouldn
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Re:SBS made me quit my job... (Score:4, Insightful)
How do you define a small business ?
I think you can consider a business with only one person a small business, but where do you draw the line ? 5 people ? 10 people ? 20 people ?
I ask, because I worked for a business of twenty people as the full-time IT staff, from 1997 to 1998.
We had a WANG VS system, running our own custom software, based upon the PACE RDBMS.
The support costs every year where about 25000EUR/year I think, but this computer system never failed.
Peripherals, like line printers and terminals needed some replacements and service every year, but that was included in the support costs.
The database consisted of about 350 tables for the operational work, 180 tables for financial reporting, and in addition to that the bookkeeping software.
I could spend about 95% of my time programming and enhancing the system.
Why do I tell all this ?
Because I think that a system like SBS, with all its different features, cannot be optimally used by a company which does not have a good IT staff.
What I mean is that from a certain size you should be able to also hire a good programmer, which is able to service the SBS and start making use of features of SBS specifically tailored to the business.
If you cannot afford such a person, then SBS is no use to a business (except maybe in a bragging 'me too' way), because only the easiest and simplest features will be used.
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Define "server", please. You can get Mac Minis for $350-500 a pop and use them as microservers running BSD or even vanilla OS X. One for files. Another for mail and VPN. A third for your DB. Set them to all back up to a NAS box daily. Total investment in
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Geez, you completely missed the point of my post. And it would appear that you're a twat, too.
The point is that SBS is *designed* (and indeed, shipped) to run all of this stuff on one box. That's the point of SBS. I came from a large infrastructure enviroment, where each server was dedicated to a task. I came to this place not so long ago, and saw how SBS is deployed in the real world... and it quite frankly sucks (but that might have something to do with my predecessors who installed the kit).
Yes, of cours
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I love *standard* Windows Server Systems. Like the ones I used to use, and the ones I'm going back to using.
SBS is simply not a solution that fits in with my idea of a good infrastructure, and that seems to be mainly down to the fact that with SBS you're pitching to the bottom end of the market.
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I asked the manager why on earth we didn't insist on RAID for those clients that don't have it. His answer? "We did, but they flatly refused to pay the extra cost of a RAID solution. If we hadn't moved on that, we would have lost their business to the guy down the road who sells whitebox servers at half the price."
So, the choice
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And their Shadow Copy system seems to be broken or intermittent about half the time, so good luck backing up a mounted Exchange database!
-b.
non-final core components (Score:2)
rs232's Recent Submissions - Title - Datestamp
non-final core components - Thursday August 17, @07:45PM Rejected
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Do you have any evidence that such a thing happened. Shurly there can only one dev branch what ever that is and wouldn't a newer component have less bugs than an earlier version. And finally are 'non-final core components' the same thing as bugs.
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No, I have no evidence and that's why I said "Sounds more like" :)
About having less bugs, there's no natural law that says a newer
Another recall or /. just slow? (Score:4, Informative)
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Microsoft-Recalls-
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Looks like the same recall to me. Since the article linked in the story mentions that this product originally shipped in July and the article you linked was dated July 29th it seems fairly unlikely that there were two.
humm (Score:3, Interesting)
Legal precedent? (Score:2, Interesting)
One can imagine, if given any serious fault or bug, Microsoft would be obligated to recall copies of their OS. Given that nowdays the OS is a crucial component for several business, can the justice force Microsoft to do it?
After all, if they sell a defective product, that can cause severe harm to its consumers... I guess it's Microsof responsability to fix the damage. I don't know about the USA, but here at Brazil the EULA means nothing, since it can't de
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I'm right there with you, but I can't seem to personaly look at the situation from every angle and be happy.
Compare it to the auto industry for example: If I want to start a car company in my garage, I'm expected to provided a minimum level of safetly in my vehicles, regardless of whatever my feelings are on the subject. I can't produce deathtraps and then j
Usage is Provided "As Is..." (Score:3, Insightful)
This has been something I've tried to point out quite a bit: If Microsoft claims the same level of "It is not my problem" then why is the
An obvious point (Score:3, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:3, Funny)
I recall small business server.. (Score:2)
heh (Score:3, Funny)
At least they recall it! (Score:3, Interesting)
But nothing was done except providing a nearly nonvisible update, and this issue has caused nearly untamable mailstorms damaging customer reputation, ringing up traffic bills, and causing lots of grief. At least they demonstrated that not everyone can write a fetchmail clone.
The typical customer for this package has no means at all to point out what was happening, and the system integrators usually only come by to look maybe the next day or so.
(when they tried remote access over the same internet connection, it would be stuffed with traffic)
At least now they recall it before it is too late.
Mod parent up! (Score:2)