India Forms Expert Group on Google Earth Images 217
Digital Inspiration writes "According to Yahoo News, the Indian Government, 'concerned over satellite images of its strategic installations being made available in the public domain by internet search engine Google, has decided to constitute an expert group to suggest ways to safeguard the country's interests.' Earlier, The President of India expressed concerns that terrorists could use Google Earth to plan assaults on the Indian parliament, the President's house and government offices in New Delhi, all of which show up clearly in Google Earth's photos. Google Earth has expressed its readiness to have discussions with the Government regarding the issue."
mmm (Score:3, Funny)
Re:mmm (Score:2)
Area 51 (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Area 51 (Score:5, Insightful)
Similar blocking is done for the White House and the Capitol building in the US (at least for Google Maps, I haven't checked Google Earth).
Re:Area 51 (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Area 51 (Score:4, Funny)
I'm an Australian, and I'd be very happy if our Prime Minister was under the ground.
UFO Logic (Score:3, Insightful)
I mean, the address of the White House was been well known for the past 100 years, and no city map of Washington D.C. fails to list it. It's been featured in song, the title of a film, and a trivial pursuit question for decades. I imagine that any Indian seat of power (residence or professional building) is equally as well known within the city's limits (and possibly n
Re:Area 51 (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Area 51 (Score:2)
Security Through Obscurity (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Security Through Obscurity (Score:5, Funny)
It just means someone was taking it away real fast.
Thr REAL reason for this.. (Score:2)
Re:Security Through Obscurity (Score:2)
Yes, and even worse for them, the original map didn't disappear. At least if they're going for "Google Earth images" and Google's service. They're just reusing already public material.
Re:Security Through Obscurity (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Security Through Obscurity (Score:5, Insightful)
Google Earth makes it about a billion (well, some large amount) times easier to discover and access the data. It's also much harder to track down who is accessing the data (well, for India, I suppose it doesn't really apply, but if the satellite images are from an American company, at least in the US the government could subpoena who accessed them and maybe track down the fact that some known Bad Guy has been looking at some vulnerable Secret Place.
So the point being, the data is more readily available, which is not good for people who want to keep the data hidden. This sucks for those who want to keep the secrets, but I agree with the sentiment you are trying to defend, which is, "too bad for them".
Re:Security Through Obscurity (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you think that a potential terrorist really cares how easy to use Google is, or that they make the information more readily available? In a world without Google Earth, would he fire up his browser, learn that the information is not readily available, and give up, saying, "Well, I couldn't possibly just go out and buy this stuff from the source, so I think I just won't bomb Parliament!"
Re:Security Through Obscurity (Score:2)
Re:Security Through Obscurity (Score:2)
If I was planning a "terrorist attack", getting aerial photos might be an important part of the plan, but a tiny part of the whole process. I'd want much more intelligence, of the interior layout and guard schedules, etc etc. I'd find an inside source, or preferably several. (Recall that Indira Gandhi was assassinated by her own guards.) If I have any foreign government connections, they can supply
cf NSA (Score:3, Insightful)
Similarly, you'll note that there are nice high resolution maps of Area 51 available to anyone who's interested. Try using the map to get to anywhere it shows, and you'll find out why nobody has needed to try and ban the maps.
The way I see it,
Re:Google already censors for China... (Score:2)
Who's forming the group? (Score:5, Informative)
Actual Quote from Article: "Concerned over satellite images of its strategic installations being made available in the public domain by internet search engine Google, India has decided to constitute an expert group to suggest ways to safeguard the country's interests."
Re:Who's forming the group? (Score:2)
Re:Who's forming the group? (Score:2)
Re:Who's forming the group? (Score:2, Informative)
That's a common misconception. In fact, quotes and paraphrasing don't mix. Anything you enclose in quotes must be completely unaltered (unless you use square brackets). Single quotes are used only for nesting one quotation within another.
See Wikipedia [wikipedia.org], for example: "It is generally considered incorrect to use quotation marks for paraphrased speech" (and that is a real direct quote).
Re:Who's forming the group? (Score:2)
Re:Who's forming the group? (Score:2)
A common mistake (eg "seperate") is still a mistake and may be forgiveable but never acceptable.
Re:Who's forming the group? (Score:2)
I'm a professional editor, and this is the first time I've heard this "rule". Please give me a reference so I can get current with this new usage.
Or alternatively, admit you made it up. Whether you use single or double quotes is mainly a manner of style, (British prefer single, Americans double in most cases); the meaning is ALWAYS the exact words spoken or written.
Too dumb for words. (Score:2, Funny)
Office of the Development Commissioner
Kandla Special Economic Zone
Ministry of Commerce & Industry Government of India
Gandhidham-370 230
Gujarat
Phone: 02836- 52194, 52475, 52273
Fax: 02836- 52250
Re:Too dumb for words. (Score:2)
That way the maps still accurate, but it's the difference between "Take the second left, third right, fourth right and then knock on the door theme times" and "it's some where over there".
Re:Too dumb for words. (Score:2)
Those Al Qaeda pussies tremble in their pig-skin boots when they think about the Indian military and government powers!
I dare them to try a massive attack against the Indian government, infrastructure, and all those juicy tech centers.
I double dare them.
I triple dog dare them.
There. I did it. The fabled triple dog dare from the Christmas Story, right here for all the world to see. If those terrorists don't take that one, well
Re:Too dumb for words. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Too dumb for words. (Score:2)
The liberal media cabal is covering up the *Alpha* release of Google Maps/Earth, which was tested from 2000-2002 by Osama Bin Laden himself. Google sat on it f
Re:Too dumb for words. (Score:3, Funny)
I tried to call the Ministry to complain, but I ended up talking to some chick with a thick Brooklyn accent and neither one of us could understand what the other was saying.
Re:Too dumb for words. (Score:5, Interesting)
Go to Google Maps. Try to look at the White House and the surrounding area. You'll see that a great deal of detail has been obscured, precisely because of the security concerns.
Just like the US, India has suffered at the hands of internationally-sponsored terrorism. Unlike the US, its actually had the misfortune of having its parliament and parliamentary officials attacked. And Indians have far more first-hand experience of being the brunt of terrorism than the US has had too. Google for the facts if you don't believe me.
India has legitimate security concerns here. Discussing how those concerns are best dealt with in a cooperative manner, as India has chosen to do, rather than confrontational one, as others have opted for in the past, is to be commended rather than condemned.
Re:Too dumb for words. (Score:3, Insightful)
Damn. Now if I want to do evil there, I'll have to wait forty seconds for one of the Discovery channels to do a documentary that includes way closer-up pictures.
Re:Too dumb for words. (Score:2)
Somehow I rather doubt that the footage on the Discovery channels includes that information but feel free to argue that it does.
Re:Too dumb for words. (Score:2)
If an aerial photo is that dangerous, the Secret Service needs to redesign their coverage.
Pretty soon, it's going to be highly impractical to prevent amateur aerial photography. It's not that expensive to build a radio-controlled plane with a camera. As soon as someone releases a general purpose
Re:Too dumb for words. (Score:3, Insightful)
Good. Now go download Google Earth and see what you are missing.
Re:Too dumb for words. (Score:2)
Now, look at the tops of the White House and some of the surrounding buildings in that image: if those don't appear obscured (synonyms of which include buried, concealed, covert and hidden) to you then you really need to see an optician.
Re:Too dumb for words. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Too dumb for words. (Score:2)
Because it's not just "a tool to the Terrorists", it's also an important tool for research. For example, unrestricted Google Earth might well allow researchers to uncover government corruption and deception, both in the US and abroad.
In any case, all of this is just a temporary issue anyway; over the next decade, anybody will be able to get high resolution aerial photography of anything, whether the government allows it or not. So, the military be
Re:Too dumb for words. (Score:2)
"This just in" (Score:5, Funny)
Re:"This just in" (Score:2, Funny)
Could Learn From Computer Security People (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Could Learn From Computer Security People (Score:2, Interesting)
Watching satellite pictures of sensitive areas through Google is slightly more anonymous than buying them from specialised companies. I'm sure well-organised terrorist organisations can get them anyway, but there are also plenty of amateurish wannabe terrorists, and online satellite images make things that much easier for them. Governments are right to be concerned.
bad analogy (Score:3, Informative)
The question of whether satellite data of military installations needs to be kept secret is something that warrants a separate discussion. I think that eventuall
You Could Learn From Computer Security People (Score:3, Informative)
Your statement suggests a superficial understanding of security. There is nothing wrong with obscurity. It is merely one of *many* tactics that should be employed *simultaneously*. Problems arise when someone relies predominately on only one tactic, whether the one tactic is obscurity or something else doesn't really matter.
Re:You Could Learn From Computer Security People (Score:2)
Google should fix this (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Google should fix this (Score:2)
Re:Don't give them ideas! (Score:3, Funny)
I have an idea (Score:5, Funny)
Hey, it works for Google web search and Groups!
Re:I have an idea (Score:2, Funny)
Re:I have an idea (Score:2, Funny)
Hm... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Hm... (Score:5, Interesting)
In that context, it is indeed a historical irony that India has had to actively form a security group on this matter.
Re:Hm... (Score:2)
So, they figured that talking to Google is a better alternative.
Re:Hm... (Score:2)
Re:Hm... (Score:2)
Re:Hm... (Score:2)
There's more on this in the book Weapons of Peace [sawf.org] if you're interested.
Re:Hm... (Score:2)
This is off-topic even with respect to the off-topic parent post, but... there is a strict "mouse exclusion principle" enforced at each park: only one mouse character is allowed to be walking around the park at any given time. This avoids any possibility of children being traumatized [snopes.com] by seeing two copies of the same character at the same time.... :^)
The recent threats (Score:3, Interesting)
The only surprising thing... (Score:5, Insightful)
Considering all the ridiculous things the Shrub administration has done in its so-called "war on terruh", you'd think they'd at least strategically blur satellite photos of our military installations. Lord knows, they'd like to blur that porn you were jerking off to last night. But we all know they would never ask an American business to stop distributing its products in the name of stopping terruh. Regulating capitalism is unamerican! It's just more evidence to me that they are not really interested in protecting our troops and citizens... unless it somehow profits them or increases their control.
Re:The only surprising thing... (Score:2)
There has been some let-up in the rules regarding aerial photograph though, but I don't know exactly what that is. I understand you can take pics from a plane now, but under certain conditions.
I wonder what's next (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I wonder what's next (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I wonder what's next (Score:2, Funny)
No real solution, (Score:2, Interesting)
I beleive it's time governments figure out a solution to the problem that doesn't involve the reversal of technology. Because it isn't going to get any better for them from here on in.
Misplaced attention (Score:4, Insightful)
Anything that a satellite way up there in orbit can take a picture of, a remote-controlled plane with camera attached can take a photo of. Trying to stop terrorists having this information is insanity. India need to come up with security that assumes the terrorists already have this information.
Re:Misplaced attention (Score:2)
stupid premise (Score:3, Interesting)
What does the future have in store? (Score:2, Insightful)
Sad really.
Windows are obsolete (Score:2)
Windows are obsolete. People will be using their individual flat panel displays. They will select a view (camera) just like they select the music channel. Everybody gets a view, everybody can see the "sight" visible from only one side, etc. The cameras can be *temporarily* shutdown if security necessitates it.
Re: (Score:2)
France already got that treatment (Score:3, Interesting)
So, Google is willing to help governments hide sensitive locations, and I would be surprised India gets a different treatment -- it's just a matter of providing the appropriate info.
Hopefully, this won't get abused (blank countries, anyone?), but so far with the U.S.A. and at least France, such blanking has been done with the right balance.
Dear governments of Earth... (Score:2)
Did you ever take it to the vet?
Did you try to put it into a little box to get it to the vet?
Take the hint. If your precious secret hidey-holes and pillow-forts have such glaring vulnerabilities that a picture of them from above would help terrorists, you have MUCH bigger problems than keeping your cat from clawing the hell out of you in the car.
Less censorship of White House now (Score:2)
And the really annoying blurring of the entire Capitol Building complex has been removed.
The White House blurring was particularly pointless. You can go up to the top of the Washington Monument and take good pictures of the White House roof, and hundreds of tourists do that every day.
It's good to see some of
Re:Less censorship of White House now (Score:2)
Some Navy people still think it was rude to kick out the Chief of Naval Operations, who used to live there, so the Vice President could move in.
Clouds (Score:2)
Security through obscurity... (Score:2, Redundant)
Security through obscurity rarely works.
Obscurity works every day (Score:2)
"When will people learn?" is the correct question. However your statement then goes on to demonstrate a superficial understanding of security. There is nothing wrong with obscurity. It is merely one of *many* tactics that should be employed *simultaneously*. Problems arise when someone relies predominately on only one tactic, whether the one tactic is obscurity or something else doesn't really matter. Today, I hoped you learned that slashdo
Re:Obscurity works every day (Score:2)
However, you failed to recognize the rhetorical nature of my statement.
Note the intentional choice of puntuation. A period as opposed to a question-mark.
"When will people learn," was more akin to me dipping my head in frustration. "When _will_ people learn?"
I am well versed in the concept of security through obscurity, as obviously are you. The problem does not lie--but is precisely beacuse--Governments and Organizations predominantly want to rely on obscurity to prov
what about archive.org (Score:2)
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/india/index.html/ [fas.org]
http://web.archive.org/web/20000309002720/www.fas. org/nuke/guide/india/facility/trombay.htm/ [archive.org]
http://web.archive.org/web/20000304012844/www.fas. org/nuke/guide/india/facility/index.html/ [archive.org]
http://web.archive.org/web/20000618013500/www.fas. org/nuke/guide/india/facility/airbase/index.html/ [archive.org]
http://web.archive.org/web/20000128044315/fas.org/ nuke/guide/india/target/index.html/ [archive.org]
Re:what about archive.org (Score:2)
Israel? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Israel? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Israel? (Score:3, Insightful)
So... (Score:5, Insightful)
Not that I could see Pakistan starting a nuclear exchange with India. If such an exchange were to occur and, say, 100 million were lost on both sides, India's remaining population would be .9 billion or so while Pakistan's would be in the negative numbers (IIRC, can't be bothered to look it up in the CIA world factbook.) And I'm stealing that quote more or less directly from an Indian government official who said the same thing.
Umbrellas. Lots of them. (Score:2)
Other solutions the group might want to consider (Score:2, Funny)
On the same note, here are other solutions the Indian experts might want to consider:
Re:Other solutions the group might want to conside (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Other solutions the group might want to conside (Score:2)
A while ago. some poilitician(s) in Germany made the useless suggestion to equip the German nuclear power plants with GPS jammers and fog machines, so that "terrsts" with a hijacked plane would have more difficulties to crash them into the reactors.
Terrorists, quick (Score:2)
ever hear of a map? (Score:2)
Hell, I bet every tourist brochure for the capital has the locations of every government building on them. Not to mention most of the images are at least 3+ years old. WTF good are they now?
Bunch of hubbub over nothing.
haha (Score:2)
Security through obscurity is not security at all.
Anyone here should know that...
smash.
To Whom It May Concern, The Cat Is Out Of The Bag (Score:2)
Re: Google Maps & Parliamentarly Security
We have received your message expressing concern over the possibility that on-line services such as Google Maps and Google Earth may facilitate planning for those seeking to bring harm to the institutions of the national government.
It is my misfortune to inform you that the cat is out of the bag, and the reasons for this are two:
1) Pakistan has already purchased the necessary imagery from Fr
The Google Issue Is Secondary (Score:2)
If the providers of the maps were made to obscure their images, and Google were made to simply refresh their maps, then the Indian Government should be happy. Google aren't taking the satellite images after all, and anyone who really wanted the data could just go to the source if Google's images weren't good enough.
The genie is well out of the bottle here.
Google should be required to sim
Google Power (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Security through obscurity (Score:2, Funny)
Put a big physical sign near the house, readable in the pictures, that says "Good place to slip past guards" (in the appropriate language), with an arrow pointing to the landmine and beartrap patch.