Zone-Spoofing Fixed for IE 7 Home Users 115
BeanBunny writes "The IE 7 dev team has essentially removed the intranet zone for Home users, resulting in a Web browser that is effectively invulnerable to a zone-spoofing attack. This security feature does not exist, however, on any installation that is part of a managed network. It also does not exist if you manually change the permissions on your Internet zone. However, in Windows Vista, both zones will be run in a 'protected mode,' something that allegedly prevents the invisible installation of code."
So . . . (Score:4, Funny)
Re:So . . . (Score:1, Informative)
Re:So . . . (Score:1)
Re:So . . . (Score:2)
Re:So . . . (Score:2)
Bwahahaha! Good one!
Thanks, I needed that.
If you were being serious, I think you need to do a s/usually/sometimes/ on that sentence.
Protected Mode (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Protected Mode (Score:2)
All I know is that FireFox 1.5 (DeerPark) broke GreaseMonkey and a lot of other extensions because of this XPC wrapper thingy, which as I understand it, securely wraps extensions to seperate them somewhat from each other and the browser preventing them from doing things they shouldn't. Greasemonkey specific information regarding this can be found here [dunck.us].
You can also check that old thread [mozdev.org] from back when GreaseMonkey had a horrible security flaw
Re:Protected Mode (Score:1)
Remove the Internet Zone too (Score:5, Funny)
No browser is safer that IE if you prevent it from accessing a network!
Re:Remove the Internet Zone too (Score:2, Interesting)
Oh, I'm sure someone will still find a way.
Re:Remove the Internet Zone too (Score:1)
Re:Remove the Internet Zone too (Score:1)
Re:Remove the Internet Zone too (Score:2)
I remember seeing it in IE4 thinking that it was a good idea but how damn complicated it is to actualy use. AND, it's not portable so on each Win98 re-install, all your settings had to be rebuilt.
Plus98 was more fun to reinstall and setup than that.
Re:Remove the Internet Zone too (Score:2)
"Zones" were quite possibly the dumbest design flaw in the history of web browsers, arguably exceeding even the decision to "integrate" the browser with the OS.
> I remember seeing it in IE4 thinking that it was a good idea but how damn complicated it is to actualy use. AND, it's not portable so on each Win98 re-install, all your settings had to be rebuilt.
I said the same thing you did - except that instead of thinking
Re:Remove the Internet Zone too (Score:2)
It's a big benefit to us at work (I do systems engineering).
Obviously we want our users to be very well protected from external websites, but for ones on the company intranet or ones that belong to partner companies, it's great to be able to relax the security so that businesspeople don't have to worry about unsigned code warnings when they use some
Re:Remove the Internet Zone too (Score:2)
Amazing how such a "dumb idea" has since been copied by OS X, KDE and GNOME.
Uh, not really. (Score:2)
Re:Uh, not really. (Score:2)
This feature is completely independent of "browser integration". All four platforms have the same browser-as-a-shared-component style architecture (and of them, Windows had it first). That some choose to have a shell that loads various components as required (Windows and KDE) and some offer only a simple shell (OS X and GNOME) does not change the fundamentals. The browser is still "integrated" into the "OS" by being available as a reusable component.
Konqu
Re:Remove the Internet Zone too (Score:1)
Re:Remove the Internet Zone too (Score:2)
I had something similar happen with a recent update a client of mine did. They updated their version of PC-cillin and it completely blocked them from getting on the Internet. It sure was secure though!
Re:Remove the Internet Zone too (Score:1)
*We get blue screen. AI turn on.*
Re:Remove the Internet Zone too (Score:1)
Re:Remove the Internet Zone too (Score:1)
Re:Remove the Internet Zone too (Score:2)
Re:Remove the Internet Zone too (Score:1)
Essentially... allegedly... I smell BS. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Essentially... allegedly... I smell BS. (Score:2)
Basically, they are removing the intranet zone for XP Home users because they don't believe it's needed, and having it creates another attack surface. You'll be able to get it back if you want, the first time you use what would be an intranet zone address IE will show the yellow Information Bar and you can click to restore it.
Zone spoofing will still be possible by using Trusted Sites zone
Re:Essentially... allegedly... I smell BS. (Score:1)
How, exactly? I've searched for a few minutes on google and could not find any working examples of spoofing the zone. If you know it's possible then you must already know of an example then, right?
Re:Essentially... allegedly... I smell BS. (Score:1)
I applaud Microsoft for identifying that user confusion has caused a lot of inadvertent invulnerabilities.
The idea of trusted and untrusted sites seems good on the surface, since it is a balance between open access to the Web and unplugging your DSL modem. Nevertheless, allowing the intranet zone to return means that there can still be zone spoofing, as you stated. Maybe less likely, but the problem with security is that a hole is a hole. Once you find it, it's now
Re:Essentially... allegedly... I smell BS. (Score:2)
Probably, your computer was infected with something like a rootkit that tried to take over the machine on startup to conceal itself. Installing SP2 likely changed the system enough that the rootkit's patches were invalid, giving you the BSOD. By reformatting you removed the malware, so SP2 did its job.
Code signing will finally be more effective (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Code signing will finally be more effective (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe you fix one or two weaknesses, but there's so many others in windows it amounts to broken anyway. All this security blathering by MS is part of their "security" media message. What happens when Longwait gets here? More of the same.
Code signing has it's own troubles, the biggest of which is the PHB or consumer that doesn't know or care.
Who's the signer and how much will they charge? Annually? You squelch innovation as the entry barrier into the desktop just got raised. Not to mention if you m
Re:Code signing will finally be more effective (Score:2)
i'm against all extensions. if you can't fit it in html, it's not supposed to be in a browser in the first place
yep, i use ff
Re:Code signing will finally be more effective (Score:2)
Digital signatures are only a security feature in that the publisher can guarentee that their data has not been modified in transmittion to you. It does not indicate the quality of the data. It was never meant to seperate software from
Hmmm.. (Score:3, Insightful)
If I was Microsoft, I'd implent IE competely away from shell and work with it individualy. I think it'll solve the majority of the problems.
Re:Hmmm.. (Score:1)
Re:Hmmm.. (Score:1)
Re:Hmmm.. (Score:2)
Re:Hmmm.. (Score:1)
Re:Hmmm.. (Score:2)
Re:Hmmm.. (Score:1)
Vista is taking a page from *nix (Score:3, Interesting)
IE7 is supposed to run in a fully protected mode by default. The protected mode is similar to a non-root user in *nix so that non-admin user programs do not have access to modify system files or settings. This is supposed to prevent spyware/adware that hooks into Windows processes and keep something one user may install from affecting other users of the system.
Slowly but surely MS is learning a few good tricks from the Linux crowd.
Re:Vista is taking a page from *nix (Score:2)
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--
HenrySpencer
Usenet signature, November 1987
Re:Vista is taking a page from *nix (Score:2)
Re:Vista is taking a page from *nix (Score:2, Funny)
Yep. Just look at Linux.
Re:Vista is taking a page from *nix (Score:2)
Re:Vista is taking a page from *nix (Score:3, Insightful)
Slowly but surely MS is learning a few good tricks from the Linux crowd.
Please get over yourself. The "Linux crowd" didn't invent the security system that's in Linux. If MS is learning from anyone, it's from the Unix crowd, which Microsoft itself is a part of, having created Xenix in the late 80's. But essentially, MS is learning from its own problems, which were created by migrating its userbase
Re:Vista is taking a page from *nix (Score:1)
Who, in turn, proudly got most of their best ideas from the UNIX crowd.
Why do we need zones? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Why do we need zones? (Score:2)
Now, the only thing that's missing is hierarchy. Imagine having categories of zones. Corporate network, division, department. Internet, with sub-categories shopping sites, news sites, and so on. Each with their own customizable settings!
The left side of the dialog would be a treeview showing the different zones (there might be hundreds o
So we know that security will be covered in Vista (Score:5, Interesting)
I'll be honest, I haven't followed the Vista track that closely, but I have yet to hear of any evolutional or even revolutional features that I can look forward to. I read the slashdots and the diggs of the internet so, are these sources too Google and Apple happy to report on the Windows front? Or is there simply nothing to report?
Other than Metro and their attempts at making their OS work like Tiger, what is left?
Don't say security.
Formula for Posting (Score:2, Insightful)
{Rhetorical question}
{Admit you don't know anything about what you are about to talk about but think your way is better}
{Slam Microsoft}
Does that about cover it? I think I can rig up some rotating cookies to accrue good karma here if I can just get curl to work in Cygwin correctly. :-)
Seriously though, IE is the browser MANY companies choose and need to use so I think changes to improve security are good, doesn;t everyone else? If you want to contribute get on the Beta team. If you just want to c
Re:So we know that security will be covered (Score:2)
I don't think Slashdot is the best place to ask this question on, as you'll no doubt get the "no, Vista is reskinned XP".
Personally, I don't think an evolutionary OS have to be "innovative", just better. Goes for Linux just as it goes for Vista.
Anyway, here's an Vista edition comparison [winsupersite.com] and here's a more detailed list [winsupersite.com] of planned features.
Re:So we know that security will be covered in Vis (Score:2)
This posted to a site where every incremental improvement in an OS app still in Beta gets trumpeted like the Second Coming and the True Believers recompile their kernel every night.
Re:So we know that security will be covered in Vis (Score:2)
KDE's ioslaves was an innovative idea; being able to slot in a CD, browse to a virtual mp3 folder and drag 'n' drop the mp3s to the hard drive, thus triggering the ripping of them? Inspired.
I can't think of anything else that was truly innovative. Lots of good stuff, sure, but nothing that wasn't an incremental improvement on the status quo.
Re:So we know that security will be covered in Vis (Score:2)
I've been wanting that for years due to certain apps that think they are divine and simply take over/mute my global Master/Wave channel when they feel like it (AIM and Winamp, I'm looking at you!). In Windows Vista, those intolerant apps will not be able to take over.
Lazy app writers who simply use the glo
Re:So we know that security will be covered in Vis (Score:2)
http://channel9.msdn.com/tags/Windows+Vista [msdn.com]
The Slashdots and the Diggs are too Apple and Linux happy.
How about... (Score:3, Interesting)
This is about as bad as putting duct tape over the rusted out holes in an old car: "see, its all better now"
Re:How about... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:How about... (Score:2)
It is far from a fix, adding extra code to provide extra protection is not fixing the problem. This whole 'protected mode' stuff will likely have enough bugs of it's own, it is the software equivalent of duct tape.
It may still work to some extend, my car stopped leaking after some work with duct tape. Are you impressed now? Or should i call it 'brand-new' and 'utra-reliable'
Re:How about... (Score:2)
I thought the Microsofties were supposed to be really smart, however, it seems to me that whenever a security problem emerges, Microsoft's first solution is an extra 'security management app' that watches the code in question.
AFAIK, that never, ever works. You'll never get _anywhere_. Each additional layer of protection code=more bugs.
Neither. (Score:2)
As usual when marketing hype muddies up the terminology, quality suffers and confusion results.
In this case, "zone" is used by Microsoft marketing to mean one thing, and by DNS to mean something else. A DNS "zone" is a particular inherited slice of domain - a group of machines under the same management. An MS
Re:How about... (Score:2)
wait just a damned minute! (Score:2)
Re:How about... (Score:2)
A ploy to force upgrade of corporate networks? (Score:1, Interesting)
(from the IE blog: only pc;'s connected to a domain will have a local zone enabled)
Looks more like a ploy to force all corporate users to move to active directory asap...
Re:A ploy to force upgrade of corporate networks? (Score:2)
[...]
Looks more like a ploy to force all corporate users to move to active directory asap...
Umm, no.
They are removing the intranet zone from the home edition, and leaving the intranet zone in the pro version. And the intranet zone has less security than the internet zone to allow all of the insecure activex crapp
Always Trust Content From This Provider (Score:5, Insightful)
Everyone should know that checkbox well -- and leave it alone and unchecked.
But where is the Never trust content from this provider ever again checkbox? The one I want to check every time I go to a site (all seemingly signed by the same certificate provider) that tries to install the 24-hour Time Manager, or You Must Click Yes to View This Site's Content when all trying to do is get out of a site I hadn't wanted in the first place.
That's what I want my browser to offer me -- along with an inability for any web-site to affect my browser's basic functioning, like disabling the right mouse key. When is that patch coming?
Re:Always Trust Content From This Provider (Score:2)
Good point. Instead of wasting time on "zones", let the user decide what is and isn't trusted content. Build site-blocking right in, and then allow the user to set levels of blocking, so you could for example browse a site but accept no cookies or downloads or ActiveX from that site. Basically, migrating a firewall into the browser to set an extra level of protection.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Always Trust Content From This Provider (Score:1)
My reasoning for this is if you do trust the certificate, and you always click 'yes' each time without doing the 'always'. Some day, a website might spoof the real website, using its own carefully crafted certificate that LOOKS si
Re:Always Trust Content From This Provider (Score:1)
Misleading article title ? (Score:3, Insightful)
Shouldn't it be something along the lines of "Microsoft removes yet another feature that proved to be a security threat"? It's not like they added a new security measure that beefs up Internet security. They just disabled the intranet zone, not too different than that feature that doesn't let you access /programfiles/ or /windows/ from the local network (dunno if you can circumvent that, but it is what happened to me by default)->(I think it's from SP2), which IMO is extremely annoying, because it makes me HAVE to change rooms to copy something from those folders.
Ah, spin doctors, you never cease to amaze me...
"Zones" Where A Goofy Concept Anyway (Score:2)
Very few home users can underst
My idea (Score:3, Insightful)
2) Files created by scripts / java applets / your internet browser will ALWAYS have their "unsafe" bit set to 1. Copying files (even with floppies) will also copy their internet bit.
3) Never execute files with the "internet bit" set to one.
So what about executables installed from the internet? You set their internet bit to 0. But here's the catch: They CANNOT set or unset other files' unsafe bits, that's something only the admin can do, with a program by the operating system.
4) applets / scripts / etc cannot read or write files with the "internet bit" set to 0. They can only alter "internet" files.
This will allow applets or scripts to use caches, etc, but they can't make a script and later tell windows shell to run it. This will trigger a security warning, and possibly ban the originating applet / script.
Perhaps adding another bit "operating_system / user program" might improve this even further. os programs can create and alter os or user files, but a user program cannot modify an os file.
Of course, this is only an idea, and i really haven't thought how viable it is.
Re:My idea (Score:1)
- http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc3514.html [faqs.org]
Re:My idea (Score:2)
Re:My idea (Score:1)
But then how would we be able to load windows itsself!
Re:My idea (Score:2)
Instead of an "Internet" bit, how about an "executable" bit. The default would be "not executable". Then, to run it, the user would explicitly "change the mode" of the file. This would prevent things from running or even being run automatically.
If only someone would prototype this and see if an OS with this features suffers less from trojans and viruses.
(P
Re:My idea (Score:2)
Thrilled (Score:1)
Of course when it's actually secure, it'll be because MS took out program execution as a feature.
(Announcer: Windows Bottomless Canyon, our most secure operating system yet. It's completely inveunerable to all forms of security risk. When you want to watch your mouse pointer move around the screen, but don't want the gaping security holes in Linux, look no further than Microsoft. (Program execution plugin may ad
Sadly, the slashdot crowd WANTS IE to be insecure (Score:5, Interesting)
You lost your stability argument, and slowly but surely, you're losing your security argument (the last major security outbreak happened back in 2003, and things will only get worse for you in Vista, where the default accounts are non-admin). Face the facts that you're going to have to find another argument ("free, as in beer", I suspect).
Re:Sadly, the slashdot crowd WANTS IE to be insecu (Score:1, Redundant)
Not really... I'm very happy with my *nix box and I haven't actually cared for whatever M$ has done lately for security, and I bet a lot of other *nix and Mac users don't give a damn whether Windows ever becomes secure. What you're accusing us is for rooting (ro0ting?) for the underdog, which last time I checked WASN'T a crime.
You lost your stability argument
I disa
Re:Sadly, the slashdot crowd WANTS IE to be insecu (Score:4, Informative)
Hahahahahahahaha (x1000)
The last catastophic, taking-down-millions-of-systems, DoSing-the-Internet, making-headlines-all-over-the-world-for-days-afte
Several major outbreaks have happened this year, Zobot for one. The only thing that saved the day was the uptake in XP installs; otherwise, we would have had another Code Red on our hands.
Incremental improvement. A good thing for Microsoft, a good thing for average users, a good thing for the internet, yes. But "slowly but surely, you're losing your security argument"? Call me when a million Linux webservers get infected. Call me when desktop Linux starts spreading automatically executed worm code.
Most importantly, call me when Linux sees as many viruses and/or outbreaks as its marketshare would imply. Not the almsot nonexistent numbers we see today. That always seems to be the argument, that it's a marketshare thing. So just keep in touch, and let me know when 5% (or whatever Linux is at) of viruses/worms/spyware is targetted at, and infecting, Linux. Then you might actually have a point.
Re:Sadly, the slashdot crowd WANTS IE to be insecu (Score:1)
Of course. This is why they wills till go on and on about the "blue screen of death" long after ti became an extremely rare occurance. They need things to stay the same because OSS can't match the rate at which a large company can bring resources to bear.
They will contineu to tell stories about old versions of Windows and comfort themselves with superiority that
Interesting Security Moves with IE7/Vista (Score:3, Informative)
This helps even when non-admins are running IE 7 because it doesn't just prevent system changes (like adding a program to the startup folder), it also prevents changes to anything outside of the sandbox... including files that the non-admin user has full access to.
They accomplish this by using the concept of a broker which IE 7 has to ask to do pretty much anything to the local system, independant of the privledges of the user running the browser. Want to save a file to your desktop? IE 7 must first ask the broker for permission. When the broker gets this request it then asks the user using a dialog. If the user approves, the broker then gets the appropriate information from IE 7 and saves the file for IE 7. At no point does the IE 7 process have access to the desktop or any of the users files.
The net effect is isolating all dangerous code in the broker, which is far simpler and easier to audit and debug than IE 7, thereby decreasing the attack surface dramatically.
For a detailed description of all this, check out the channel 9 [msdn.com] video about it.
Re:Interesting Security Moves with IE7/Vista (Score:2)
Often times programmers will isolate particularly dangerous code inside specific class libraries. This take it one step further and isolates that code in a seperate process, there by allowing IE to be run as a low-privs user.
How would you suggest implementing a "general mechanism"? Code Access Security in
Re:First (Score:2, Funny)
Re:First (Score:1)
Re:In related news (Score:2, Funny)
I thought they already did this years ago...
http://ftp.pcworld.com/pub/screencams/mscement2.g