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Microsoft 'under attack' On All Fronts 671

khujifig writes "The Beeb are carrying a story looking at the challenges facing Microsoft in the next few years. This includes a brief description of the M.Home (sans Clippy) which the Beeb describes as "a far cry from real life", and a discussion of the next few years competition for Microsoft. They go on to highlight Linux, OpenOffice.org, the GIMP and Firefox (which Gates himself has used: "I played around with it a bit, but it's just another browser, and IE [Microsoft's Internet Explorer] is better,"), and look Apple in relation to Longhorn. Not as bad a read as I was expecting. Their summary: Microsoft is under 'attack' on all fronts, and either needs to innovate or die. "Why use Microsoft if you have a broadband connection and combine Firefox with powerful web services like Google's Gmail?."" It should be said, tho', that articles like this have been written about MSFT for a long time - and there's still billions in their war-chest.
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Microsoft 'under attack' On All Fronts

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  • by garcia ( 6573 ) * on Monday May 09, 2005 @09:49AM (#12476671)
    Quite the pro OSS piece... To answer the question posed in the summary, "Why use Microsoft if you have a broadband connection and combine Firefox with powerful web services like Google's Gmail?" Because there is more to the world than just the web and e-mail.
    • Why read the Beeb when you have an optical mouse and a DVD burner? :)
    • by SilentChris ( 452960 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:01AM (#12476808) Homepage
      However, MS IS looking at web and e-mail. A little over a week ago I got a call from an MS recruiter asking if I wanted to interview for the MSN web services division (my resume was posted online). It was my first ever call from MS (although I've approached them a few times before).

      Basically, they're looking for people to code things like Outlook Live, which is essentially a web service edition of Outlook Web Access. According to the recruiter, they seem to be going full-speed toward services (while keeping an eye on the cashcows).
      • by einhverfr ( 238914 ) <chris...travers@@@gmail...com> on Monday May 09, 2005 @02:01PM (#12479359) Homepage Journal
        When I worked at Microsoft, there was a large push to look at trying to develop a services model out of their support section. They brought in some guy from IBM to push this (after they merged their Product Support Services division with Microsoft Consulting Services and called it Microsoft Services).

        They had two large problems that lead them to either slow these plans down or abandon them altogether (not sure since I no longer work there). The first is that people expect MS to lose money on support. Note that they only lose money because they are darned inefficient at providing support, however, so it is not the great value that it appears.

        Secondly, they don't want to gut their partner program by directly competing with their partners.

        There is a third problem that I don't think they have thought about, however. This is that the services industry is pretty close to what economists call "perfect competition." There are very few barriers to entry. Customers can switch service providers at any time at very little cost. So services will *never* be the cash cow that Windows and Office are. Yet Windows and Office are under what I call terminal attack. The attacks from the open source community are simply not ever going to go away, and Microsoft can never really win this war-- the best they can hope for is a containment strategy which quite frankly isn't working at the moment.

        What about emerging product markets (home of the future sort of things)? Great, and there is growth potential there. However, there is no potential for Microsoft to grow there because these markets are small. And they are competitive. So they could grow rapidly and Microsoft would simply be unable to have this growth translate into similar levels of revenue growth. This means that these markets *will not* satisfy shareholders.

        Microsoft, as a software company, is dying. But it is a death of a thousand cuts and is unlikely to be a dramatic implosion in the immediate future. However, give it five or ten years and we will see a very different picture. I predict that in 10 years, that Microsoft will largely be a media and entertainment business. However, I make the following predictions:

        1) Longhorn will be praised as a great marketing success by Microsoft. It will sell more retail copies than XP.

        2) We are already in the opening period of a war for the desktop. A few battles have gone either direction. Each battle that Microsoft loses will force more interoperability from them and will cause more to fall. It will also bring more expertise to open source software. Battles that FOSS loses will have no long-term implications. The Desktop War is already heating up, with Microsoft launching a counterattack via television advertising ;-)

        3) The consumer market will follow the corporate market.

        4) Microsoft will lose this war within 10 years.
    • by Moby Cock ( 771358 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:01AM (#12476811) Homepage
      there is more to the world than just the web and e-mail

      Not to the vast majority of computer users. Most people I know think that the Web and the Internet are the same thing.

      The computer using experience for most is: email, web surfing (this includes shopping on eBay) and gaming.

      Digital photography is starting to push into that list more and more, but let's face it, Picassa is a great app and the price is right!
    • I actually think that Microsofts battle is on a different front. I think they have lost the mindshare of the public. With all the bad rap and the competing good rap on other alternatives it seems that the user is becoming less tolerant to the faults.

      About a year or two ago, most users dodn;t moan too much about the BSOD's or the virus/worm attacks. Heck they didn;t even bugger too much about functionality problems. Nowadays, however, I hear much more moaning and frustration.

      If microsoft loses the attitud
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by Avyakata ( 825132 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @09:49AM (#12476679) Homepage Journal
    It's the end of the world as we know it...

    ...and I feel fine.
  • The Gimp? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 09, 2005 @09:49AM (#12476680)
    Which Microsoft product "The Gimp" is supposed to attack? Paintbrush?
    I thought The Gimp was Adobe Photoshop concurrent, and AFAIK, Adobe has not yet been bought by MS.
    • Re:The Gimp? (Score:5, Informative)

      by bhtooefr ( 649901 ) <bhtooefr@bhtooefr. o r g> on Monday May 09, 2005 @09:54AM (#12476720) Homepage Journal
      Picture It is Microsoft's competitor to Photoshop Elements...
    • Re:The Gimp? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by bogado ( 25959 ) <bogado.bogado@net> on Monday May 09, 2005 @09:57AM (#12476765) Homepage Journal
      Since there is no Photoshop for linux or many other SOs that gimp run (BSD, solaris ...) the gimp allows people who want to use a Photoshop alike app to run from MSWindows.

      But those people could run to MacOSX and keep their photoshop. But this would require a change of hardware.
    • Re:The Gimp? (Score:3, Informative)

      by jsrlepage ( 696948 )
      um.... Paint .net? [wsu.edu]

      or is it the other way?
  • Why is it better? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by JFlex ( 763276 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @09:50AM (#12476687)
    "I played around with it a bit, but it's just another browser, and IE [Microsoft's Internet Explorer] is better,"

    What makes it so much better? I've been using Firefox for a while now and it seems like more then 'just another browser' to me.
    • by zwilliams07 ( 840650 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:00AM (#12476794)
      I think what Bill means is...

      "I played around with it a bit, but it's just another browser and IE [Microsoft's Internet Explorer is better...at downloading malware, spyware, viruses, and leaving your machine gapping open to the world."

    • by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:00AM (#12476800)
      Because of corporate image. Microsoft realizes that Firefox is at least a worthy competitor to IE, but it would look absolutely terrible for the company if their very famous captain came out and said 'Well, what do ya know...our competitor's product IS better.'
    • At least he admits to knowing what the word "browser" means. He pretended not to during the antitrust trial.
    • by Greyfox ( 87712 )
      Most users don't take the time to explore their browser. Firefox out of the box is nothing special. Firefox with a few extensions and some tweaks to its settings (Especially enabling http pipelining) is hot stuff. If you do web development, some of the plug-ins you can get for Firefox put it in a class by itself. The flexibility you get with plugins makes it well worth considering in corporate platform deployments as well.

      The biggest problem with Firefox at the moment is that these features aren't well-ad

      • Most users don't take the time to explore their browser. Firefox out of the box is nothing special. Firefox with a few extensions and some tweaks to its settings (Especially enabling http pipelining) is hot stuff.

        Which is exactly why most users still use IE over Firefox. Most users are just that, users . They don't want to spend hours tweaking their computer out of the box. They want to open up their PC, turn it on, and check email, write papers, do what they have to do without worrying about any of th
    • Re:Why is it better? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by tobybuk ( 633332 )
      If there is one thing we should know by now is when MS thinks it is coming under pressure it will unleash the attack dogs.

      Anyone who thinks that IE will never be as good as Firefox is very very naive. Just as MS need to innovate to survive so does OSS.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 09, 2005 @09:51AM (#12476693)
    Most of the small businesses out there want support for a product even if they never use it. They want to know it's there. They also want to know that it's going to be supported by the same people for a long time. Think of it as security.

    This isn't about which is the better product... it's about which one will get the project done AND be supported if shit hits the fan.

    Support does NOT mean Forums or RTFM. They want real people. The fact is most people are not IT people. They just want it to work and forget about it. If it breaks they want someone to call to get it working again.

    The same is for large companies except in the fact that they want support of future innovations. You are institituting a large scale database project... you are using My-SQL... something goes wrong... what do you do? Post in a forum, email a friend...

    Same situation you are using MS-SQL, you can call tech support and bam get an answer or at least a much more educated idea.

    I'm dissing open source. It's awesome and I think it keeps innovation alive and is always an alternative. But without the support... you aren't going to get the backing you might want.
    • by lachlan76 ( 770870 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @09:55AM (#12476736)
      you are using My-SQL... something goes wrong... what do you do? Post in a forum, email a friend...

      Or you can get support from MySQL...you did buy a commercial license right?
      • If you want to play the commercial license game, then there are superior DBMSs, like, pretty much every other DBMS out there (Oracle, DB2, SQL Server, ...). The business case for MySQL is "free as in beer."
    • by 0123456 ( 636235 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @09:56AM (#12476740)
      "The fact is most people are not IT people. They just want it to work and forget about it."

      Then why do they use Windows rather than Linux? You just defeated your own argument: they're more concerned with having someone to blame when it goes wrong than having something that 'just works'.
    • MySQL was a bad example: http://www.mysql.com/network/support.html [mysql.com]
    • plenty of people think that the level of support in OSS is superior to that of Windows, simply because you can have competition of support. Businesses etc pay third parties to support their software. Simple competition between those third parties drives down cost of support and generally raises service.
    • by Peeteriz ( 821290 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:19AM (#12476995)
      Last year I have had an index corruption on a sizeable (32 mil entries at 2kb) table on our live MSSQL server, and we couldn't find out a way to do anything with that index file, since all attempts to do this just returned error messages.
      Indexes are recreatable, and we could easily have time for dropping all indexes, deleting any references to such indexes and recreating them - but the glitch wouldn't allow to do this.
      The MS knowledge base for that error message contained a single sentence that basically said - 'Known issue since 2003, no workaround available'.
      The phone support suggested us to reinstall the computer/SQL server, and populate the data from backups.

      We had other issues with other, fairly niche commercial software - and it is clear that the vendor support is useless, and it is not an argument.
      The real support will be provided either by in-house people or third-party support companies. Or by the vendor charging extra in an attempt to compete with these third parties.
      This support is as available for open source programs as for closed-source programs. It is a separate service.

      • by malakai ( 136531 ) * on Monday May 09, 2005 @12:46PM (#12478526) Journal
        I got to call bull on this one.

        I've had my share (roughly four) of 'major' issues with SQL Server, all with very large databases (ie, just rebuild it from a backup wasn't an alternative). Calling MS PSS is always the last choice. In all cases I found the SQL Server support beyond incredible. In two cases I had them sending me a runtime debugging monitor and they had top tier PSS support actually watch and log in realtime SQL Server taking a crap.

        The issue in one case had to do with computed columns and indexed views. While syntaxtically legit what I wrote to occur on that column, it defeated the Deterministic/non-Deterministic requirement check, and this at some point led to an invalid mem read.

        The amount of support I got was almost too much to handle. The app was not fully in production (call it final testing), and I was almost receiving too much communication and phone calls from MS PSS on the issue (was damn busy). They figured out a work around for me, tested it against the database for me (that was one big-ass rar file I set them. around 62gig for the set of data we were testing aginst, they downloaded it all weekend). To develop the work around they even looked at my data access layer and made sure the performance would be adequate.

        And, in the end, this PSS support call was free. The problem was in SQL server, not hardware or setup.

        I have other stories for the other serious problems I've had with sql. I can't attest to this level of support on any other MS product, but with SQL, you get more than what you pay for.

        p.s, as part of the anti-FUD, can you post the KB article # that has "Known issue since 2003, no workaround available" in it.

    • by Augusto ( 12068 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @11:33AM (#12477777) Homepage
      I've dealt with a lot of commercial 3rd party support schemes, and I have to say, my experience has been extremly positive with regards to Open source.

      I remember a big CORBA corporation, won't name them or their product, but it was basically an ORB. We had used their stuff for previous versions of our product, but it was unstable and a nightmare to maintain. Just to give you an example, telnetting into their software that was attached to our process, would kill the whole server by just typing a random character!!!

      So one day they started asking us "how much money we make" with our product, and wanted to charge us a % of the profits we make! Not only that, they wanted to charge us in the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS, for their new support scam to be renewed in a yearly basis. Oh, and the new version of their orb required us to recode our app!

      So when they told us this, one of my co-workers had been testing JacORB [jacorb.org]. Turns out this our software was faster, more stable and ran in more platforms than the one from the comercial vendor!

      Not only that, but when we had problems, we usually got responses the same day. We even got sent code to patch the software for some problems! All of this FOR FREE!

      I have no problem paying for tech support, but a lot of this support is not only too expensive, but it's very slow and no, it's not much better than the message boards or mailing lists of some of the open source products. Try dealing with Oracle tech support and exchaging code with them, to see how slow it is to get them to fix problems.
  • by WormholeFiend ( 674934 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @09:51AM (#12476699)
    One day, Microsoft will market their own flavor of Linux, out of spite.
    • by utlemming ( 654269 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:13AM (#12476925) Homepage
      We all laugh, but an interesting move would be to have a version of Linux that would run Win32 binaries. Or at least a package that would allow Win32 packages to run. Honestly, how many of us /.er's would run that? All of the sudden you have the flexability of OSS with the freedom of being able to run whatever you want. I wouldn't be suprised if Microsoft was developing such a thing. Of course they wouldn't want to release such a beast unless it was nessasary -- when it looked like more and more were abandoning Windows for Linux.
  • by xxxJonBoyxxx ( 565205 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @09:52AM (#12476710)
    Google GMail doesn't seem like a serious threat to Exchange. Postfix, yes, but a third-party service which reads your email...no.
    • by frostman ( 302143 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:19AM (#12477001) Homepage Journal
      GMail as a service shouldn't be attractive to businesses for precisely that reason.

      But what if Google sells a "GMail appliance?"

      All the features of GMail, but on your own VPN, and nobody but you controls the data. Starting to look more interesting.

      Add the ability to plug in any service you want where the ads normally are... company announcements, whatever.

      Now *that* would be really attractive, I think, to a lot of companies. I don't know how well their Search Appliance worked out, but a GMail appliance could indeed be a threat to Exchange.
  • Get real.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by xlr8ed ( 726203 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @09:53AM (#12476713)
    Microsoft is under 'attack' on all fronts, and either needs to inovate or die.

    Microsoft is about likely to go under as IBM, they may take a hit now and again, they they always come out fighting.. Look atthe X-Box, they had no real console based experenice before, yet they managed to give Sony a good fight, even debuting a year after Sony... I expect that the new version of IE will have everything that FF has, and more...it's just how MS does things...

    I have always looked at MS as a big mean dog...you really don't want to mess with them, and you really really don't want to back them in a corner..

    Please don't talk this as pro-MS, it's more of a pro-reality statement
    • Re:Get real.. (Score:3, Insightful)

      I agree with you 100%.

      The thing most people forget about when they talk about Microsoft's "death" is that a big cash balance gives you extra lives in the (real) reality. To extinguish Microsoft, you would first have to drain their cash hoard.

      For all practical purposes, Microsoft is invulnerable.

      Even if today's computing industry were to disappear tomorrow, Microsoft has sufficient cash resources to re-make itself many times in other industries.

      This is basically why we have antitrust laws, as there's no
    • Re:Get real.. (Score:4, Informative)

      by leomekenkamp ( 566309 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:31AM (#12477123)
      Microsoft is about likely to go under as IBM(...)

      According to Lou Gerstner, IBM was dangerously close to the edge. Read (about) his book about getting elephants to dance; you can find enough info on the web, for instance here [forbes.com].

      nice quote: "Gerstner says that few people even understood how perilously close the firm was to running out of cash."
  • Games (Score:4, Informative)

    by koutkeu ( 655921 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @09:54AM (#12476724) Homepage
    "Why use Microsoft if you have a broadband connection and combine Firefox with powerful web services like Google's Gmail?." Sadly because i play games, and to play 99% of the games out there you need windows.
    • Re:Games (Score:3, Insightful)

      by mshiltonj ( 220311 )
      to play 99% of the games out there you need windows.

      Funny, my PlayStation plays games just fine, and it doesn't run Windows.
  • Die ? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by EpsCylonB ( 307640 ) <eps&epscylonb,com> on Monday May 09, 2005 @09:54AM (#12476729) Homepage
    Microsoft will never die, its far too rich now to disappear completely, it may have diversify like IBM. If they have enough money to throw at the XBox project without blinking an eye then they will eventually find something that is profitable. They may never make the kind of dosh they have from Windows and Office but while they can afford to hire the best talent they are virtually guaranteed to stay in business.
  • by RaisinBread ( 315323 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @09:55AM (#12476734) Homepage
    But hopefully they'll get up off their lazy butts and get to work.

    How old is IE? Wonder if the recent Firefox buzz hasn't got them back in the shop feverishly working on IE 7. Wonder if many of the feature in the said browser won't mimic those found in Firefox (opera, safari, etc...)

    How old is XP? Wonder if the recent Jaguar/Panther/Tiger buzz hasn't got them in the shop.... (you get the idea).

    I hope we can keep them lumbering for a few more years. It would sure be nice to see them either start to *really* innovate or throw in the towel.

    If you make them lose money long enough, it doesn't matter how much they have in the war-chest: like any good capatalist, they'll pull out when they realize its not growing anymore.
    • How old is IE?

      IE6.0 is 4 years old (was released in October 2001)

      Wonder if the recent Firefox buzz hasn't got them back in the shop feverishly working on IE 7.

      It sure has

      Wonder if many of the feature in the said browser won't mimic those found in Firefox (opera, safari, etc...)

      Perfectly true, many of the features in said browser won't mimic those found in Firefox, Opera or Safari (BTW the way you phrased it is misleading, Opera or Safari are full fledged browsers, completely independant from Fire

  • by zeromemory ( 742402 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @09:55AM (#12476739) Homepage
    Microsoft 'under attack' On All Fours
  • by Boogiesbunny ( 881293 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @09:56AM (#12476745)
    Name a company that can seriously put all of there resources together and pose a serious threat to Microsoft?

    Only niche market software sources are able to peck away at MS.

    People are brainwashed into following the most marketed item with all of the fancy surface features.
    • all? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by diegocgteleline.es ( 653730 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:17AM (#12476977)
      Name a company that can seriously put all of there resources together and pose a serious threat to Microsoft?

      The problem with Microsoft is that they've become too big and they have way too many products.

      There's not a single company who can fight with Microsoft. But all of them are fighting with them: Sony, Nintendo (xbox), Linux, mac os x, solaris (windows), mysql, postgresql, oracle, IBM DB2 (ms sql), firefox, opera (ie), google, yahoo (search engine, MSN), openoffice (office)

      Microsoft just can't win. After having 95%+ of market share in desktops they need to search a way to grow even more to satisfy the stock buyers, so they fight in every market. And they can fight against a single or a few companies, but not against the whole IT industry
    • Name a company that can seriously put all of there resources together and pose a serious threat to Microsoft?

      Google.

      And you meant 'their'.
  • This should be old news to Slashdot readers. We all know that Office is the cash cow that leverages windows across the enterprise. Or SMB.

    Really, most new Microsoft "lines" have failed miserably: Passport, MSNBC, ... It's just that since they do so much badly that it all gets integrated into their OS/Office/Back-office. That's when people stop buying competing programs.

    Besides, most companies are afraid to compete with Microsoft: Just look at MacAdobeMedia. They were formed explicitly because of fear. Most companies that are competing with MS started in an area that Microsoft moved into (Skype).

    Q:What do you call a clumsy 800lb gorilla?
    A: Sir (or an 800lb gorilla)
  • MS is weak (Score:3, Insightful)

    by slapout ( 93640 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @09:59AM (#12476789)
    I think Microsoft is in the weakest position it's been in in a long time. Their new OS has been delayed. Their browser is full of holes. VB 6 developers are not moving to .net like they hoped. Their new OS will contain a lot of DRM that nobody wants. Mac and Linux are both making inroads. This is a prime time to get people to switch to something else.
    • Re:MS is weak (Score:3, Informative)


      I think Microsoft is in the weakest position it's been in in a long time

      I'm not so sure. Seems to me the number of exploits in FF [slashdot.org] and Safari [slashdot.org] are increasing. (I'm a FF user as well.) Put on the tin foil hat and one might guess that Longhorn is being delayed while exploits for competitive products increase in number. If Microsoft does a good job improving security management in Longhorn, it will be a big hit.

      As for VB programmers, those not using VB.Net are either still using VB 6 or went to C#. Where else

  • by jellomizer ( 103300 ) * on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:00AM (#12476799)
    Honestly having 90% + market share is to much for any company. People are starting to realize that there are tools better fitted for their own needs. So Microsoft is not always the answer. It is not saying that microsoft products are perfect or they are utterly crap. But there are some jobs better fit by microsoft products and other fitted with other products. Now that consumers are getting use to downloading application for free and reading reviews on other products. The 90% stranglehold that microosft have is leaving. Windows is no longer considered a part of the computer. IE is not the Internet. As general knowlege grows the less stranglehold Microsoft will have. It is much like the drop in prices for our geekly services. Back in the 80s and 90s we were getting premium pay for simple jobs such as swapping drives or running backups even the Title "Computer Operator" was considered a high tech job, but as more people got use to computers many of the simple jobs are now done by people in accounting or marketing, or the janator is doing it. Just because it is common knowlege. Why was the mainfraim replaced with PCs because they were cheper and fast enough to get the work done. The same is happening with Microsoft. Will Microsoft die, Probably not but there market share will probably drop to 25-40% and still be the #1 software company. When people look at linux or apple and see a 2%-10% market share. They say it is low. But with all the competition out there 3% market share is pritty damn good.
  • by D4C5CE ( 578304 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:03AM (#12476819)
    Their summary: Microsoft is under 'attack' on all fronts
    Which reminds us of Linus telling the New York Times [nytimes.com]:
    Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect.
  • by krray ( 605395 ) * on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:03AM (#12476820)
    Mr Gates told me, and challenged my assertion that Firefox's 'market share' is growing rapidly.
    "So much software gets downloaded all the time, but do people actually use it?" he argued.


    And I have to say that software gets [forcefully] purchased all the time as well. Heck, I can remember buying dozens of computers -- ranging from desktops made into back-office quasi-servers to full blown workgroup type servers. To get each and every one of those machines the Windows tax had to be paid (at the time). I'm sure those machines are counted in Microsoft's totals for market share as well.

    They still run Linux to this day.

    Heck, I can count now HUNDREDS of computers that I'm responsible for that all originally legally ran Windows. Care to guess which Linux distro I used on them? Sad -- but a lot of those installs showed up as only one (1) [bittorrent] download...

    Mr. Gate's arguments don't and won't fly for too much longer. Microsoft days are numbers -- and yes, I am ready to sell-short their stock when the day(s) come. Might as well make money on their misery -- they certainly have on mine.
  • by Spez ( 566714 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:05AM (#12476835)

    Microsoft is under 'attack' on all fronts, and either needs to inovate or die.

    Isn't it like that for every company in this domain? I mean, there are a lot of them who just copy, but those who work well and make big bucks, usually its the law : Inovate or die

  • by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:07AM (#12476865) Homepage Journal
    As bad as Microsoft has become over the years, they were needed at the time ( some odd 15 years ago or so ).

    We needed their marketing power to jumpstart the PC market, as the more talented companies like Apple just weren't going to do it.

    Forcing a pseudo standard via their monopolistic practices is what brought us to this point, and I don't think we would have advanced as far as we have if we still had 20 companies running around catering to hobbyists or niche markets..

    However, the need for this has passed. Its time for the giant to step aside and let the rest of us get back to work. They if course will not go down with to a long and expensive fight. But their time has come and gone, its just a matter of how long will they keep flapping around like a beached whale before they concede to reality.

    ( A similar thing is just now starting to happen in the 'entertainment industry' as well )
  • by agoos ( 686581 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:10AM (#12476900) Homepage
    At the end of this movie, Steve Jobs says to Bill Gates, "We're better than you," to which Gates replies, "You just don't get it... That doesn't matter!" This still holds true today. It doesn't make any difference if Microsoft has no imagination or invention because the mass of consumption and forces of conformity give them room to sit back and relax. While others need to innovate, MS only needs to assure their customers that the stolen ideas will come a few months later. (Or years later.)
  • Pointless article (Score:3, Interesting)

    by katorga ( 623930 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:12AM (#12476917)
    A software house has to innovate or be replaced by a software house that does innovate?

    How is that news? That is the primary fact of the software market. Since the core markets for software are totally saturated and "over-featured" that shifts the focus from innovating on existing products to innovating in the arena of pricing models. That is exactly what is happening.

    Mysql is not an innovative database; instead the pricing model for Mysql is the innovation.

    That said, I've been watching MS for decades now. They never ever give up. My guess is that once the current "monopolist" leadership retires, a younger, more innovative crew will take over the company and start mixing proprietary software, OSS software and services to deliver a new pricing model.

    If you combine MS's brand recognition, market penetration, and massive warchest with truly "cool" products priced appropriately, they will be a even greater powerhouse and effectively leave Linux (but not OSS applications) in its niche.
  • by RonMcMahon ( 544607 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:24AM (#12477056) Homepage
    The comment in this posting; "Why use Microsoft if you have a broadband connection and combine Firefox with powerful web services like Google's Gmail?" show an incredible naivety. If you visit any common business you'll discover that applications other than the 'big three' (Word, Excel and Powerpoint) are more likely to be running than the big three. Why? Well, for almost any business there is need for tools that perform a specific function that is tuned to a particular business or industry's needs. Sure everyone needs and uses a browser, email and a word processor, but until there is the ability to cleanly move all of the custom tools and solutions (for which the world's business have paid us programmers trillions to build) to an alternative platform without great loss of time or expense, Microsoft and Windows will continue to win.

    Perhaps in the not-too-distant future there will be some tool out there that will ensure 100% compatibility and transferability of proprietary systems to open solutions. Sure, there are jumps and fits today in that direction, but we are not at that magical point yet.

    To that end, it really is Microsoft's challenge to 'innovate' enough to stay ahead of the Linux pack while not biting off so much that the product never ships (aka Longhorn).

  • What has to happen (Score:4, Interesting)

    by bananahead ( 829691 ) * on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:30AM (#12477113) Journal
    For Microsoft to survive this generation of 'attack from all fronts', much more serious things have to change, and serious also means difficult.

    Microsoft has not lost its ability to innovate because its people aren't smart any more. They have not lost their ability to innovate because they just don't have any more great ideas. They have not lost their ability to innovate because of poor management or leadership.

    Microsoft has lost its ability to create innovative products for three reasons:

    1) The company is now run by HR, which is forcing a politically correct agenda into the rank and file. The biggest head on this hydra is the review process, where you are reviewed by your direct manager. From this review comes rewards and longevity at the company. Because of the onerous process, people tend to drift into comfortable spots where they have a great relationship with their manager, and stay there. If you don't do this, you run the risk of being one of the lower echelon that is managed out of the company. There is no peer review, the system encourages favoritism. The process is completely destructive to innovation, you do what your manager wants, not what is right for the company. They are different things.

    2)Microsoft cannot move innovation from the research groups into the product groups because the product groups are completely disfunctional and understaffed. Once the 35% y/y growth stopped, it became all about revenue, and headcount became a scarce commodity that had to be completely justified. Because of this, the resource pool is spent on the most critical areas, which tend to be test and sustaining engineering, and whatever Bill wants to fund this year. This leaves little for new features and innovation. In fact, the feature list for Office has over a thousand new features on it, they can fund maybe 30. The 30 are picked by Sinofski or Bill. The rest are dropped. Work from Research is ignored.

    3)Employee morale is at an all time low. The place is just not fun to work at any more. The stock option program is gone, replaced by a stock award program that gives the employee one-tenth the leverage they had with options. The stock has been flat for 5 years. The will and desire of the average employee is gone. It's just a job.

    Microsoft has to address these three problems in order to remain competitive. I, personally, do not believe they can fix these issues. It will take them a long time to die, and it will be painful to watch, but they will join the ranks of AT&T, DEC, SUN and the long list of other one-time greats.

    • by Coryoth ( 254751 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @01:14PM (#12478858) Homepage Journal
      Work from Research is ignored.

      Having worked in the research department of a company that behaved like this I can relate. We had a small team in research, but they were very good people, and we were given a reasonably free hand to look into new areas and come up with new things. The problem was that the product people, and management, largely ignored (or equally often misintepreted) our ideas. It wasn't a communication issue, it was just that mamangement was extremely focused on the product that had and struggled to look outside it at all. I actually had a research project forcibly shut down because it was so much better than the current product. I had used some outside libraries to kickstart development, and it was a pure NIH decision.

      In the end we had a huge blowup of a Dilbert cartoon posted in the office and directed people's queries there. It read something like:

      PHB: This is Bob from the research department, he'll be presenting their latest findings.
      Bob: We at the research department have conducted a study of how our research gets used.
      Bob: We have found that all our research is either ignored, or misinterpreted by idiots, such as yourselves.
      Bob: Therefore, we have decided not to actually do any research anymore, we'll make stuff up. If you play along we'll make sure the comparative salary survey goes your way.
      Bob: Anyway, it's 3 o'clock, and that's quitting time in the research department.
      Wally (to Dilbert): I have a new hero.

      Jedidiah.
  • by coats ( 1068 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:30AM (#12477118) Homepage
    http://www.fortune.com/fortune/technology/articles /0,15114,1050065-1,00.html [fortune.com] "GATES VS. GOOGLE Search and Destroy" is a relevant article in the May 2 edition of Fortune:
    Microsoft was already months into a massive project aimed at taking down Google when the truth began to dawn on Bill Gates. It was December 2003. He was poking around on the Google company website and came across a help-wanted page with descriptions of all the open jobs at Google. Why, he wondered, were the qualifications for so many of them identical to Microsoft job specs...
  • Rusty Gates (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:31AM (#12477128) Homepage Journal
    Gates' IE might be better than FireFox. Because Gates' intranet is built (presumably) for IE-feature applications. And, most importantly, because his intranet is secured by a huge staff of people with some of the latest IE bug reports. That unique bubble is keeping Gates, and his minions, out of touch with the security nightmares his products create for his customers.

    MS has long been kept ahead by its huge external developer program. But IE bugs can't be addressed by those developers, because the source is secret. Ironically, that integration between app developers and the market is OSS' true strength. Exactly where MS has made its greatest success. Will Gates finally starve up in his ivory silicon tower?
  • by Kildjean ( 871084 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:50AM (#12477363) Homepage
    I think Microsoft has gotten so big they can't handle their own success. This basically leads them to not being able to innovate because they have to invest all of their time to fix the one million errors their OS has or all the security issues. This was demonstrated when the SP2 rolled out. They literally put 75% of their company to fix windows XP.

    Someone here said that Microsoft has become a dull and boring place, and I tend to believe it has. I think their engineers have lost the spice to create really cool things, because we can see that in the evolution of windows. Since Windows 95 we have seen the START taskbar... below. And the only differences are nicer graphics and more compatibility with hardware and games. That is basically it.

    And frankly by the look of things, Longhorn is just looking to be a big fat white elephant. Longhorn will be Microsoft's downfall. Nothing the OS has is impressive, not glass, not Aero... basically its more gloatware... The only thing it had that was amazing, IMHO, was the WinFX foundation and that got ripped out.

    But to say Microsoft entirely is doomed is an overstatement. While I think Microsoft's downfall will be the OS Longhorn, it will rise from the ashes with the new Xbox 360. I guess while they are not innovating on the Desktop they are doing it on the Living Room. So all is not lost for Microsoft.

    In that sense the competition they are getting heavily from Apple will either put them on their toes or bring them to their knees, specially if more governments around the world choose to dump Microsoft for cheaper and better functioning Open Source solutions.

    That is why I strongly believe Longhorn won't be the event they think it will be. The most important group of people that has to upgrade their systems and wont do it in the first 5yrs is the corporate sector. The consumer will prolly upgrade to Longhorn, but not that quickly as you think they can. Mostly because the hardware requirements to run LH with all the bells and whistles are short of obscene and your average PC comes with a Intel Video graphics card that sucks... But on the other hand, their innovative new Xbox 360 will do everything you wanted to do in the living room and will change the way the living room is. In that department SONY doesnt have a chance.

    Everything that is important will happen this summer and by the end of the summer we are going to be well aware of who is winning the war of Microsoft vs The World.

  • by tetranz ( 446973 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @11:21AM (#12477652)
    I pose this as a serious question.

    I'm a sole inhouse developer in a company with about 100 employees. I build specialized desktop and web tools for sales and logistics and stuff for presenting info to customers etc. Nothing I do is really rocket science but off the shelf tools just don't do what we want so its worth keeping me around. We're a typical company in many ways. MS Office on every desktop.

    I've done some private / volunteer projects using LAMP, I've fiddled with Java, I maintain a Linux web host for a non-profit. I consider myself a reasonably competent programmer despite having written many thousands of lines of VB6.

    For someone in my position, right now, Visual Studio, the .NET framework, either VB.NET or C# (I use C#) and SQL Server make a superb environment to work in for building either WinForms or ASP.NET.

    MSDN [microsoft.com] is a great resource.

    ASP.NET is finally moving web development out of the stone age with real debugging and abstraction from the tedium of html. According to MS, the new version will be all W3C compliant and yes they do test with FireFox. I'm coming to the concluson that nothing really comes close to ASP.NET for ease of development for web projects. I've used several PHP frameworks. Prado [xisc.com] is very cool and I was planning on using it for another volunteer project for a non-profit I'm involved with but good ASP.NET web hosts are appearing, complete with SQL Server that don't cost a lot more per month than LAMP so ... its hard to justify messing with PHP and not much more than a text editor for tools.

    Reading /. sometimes makes me wonder if I'm backing the wrong horse here. Am I blinded by the hype, stupid, gullible, naive or doing the right thing here? So far my choice of platform is getting pretty good results.
  • by EMIce ( 30092 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @11:48AM (#12477918) Homepage
    Microsoft has real problems and here is why - they approach the market reactively, "innovating" by relying on surveys, focus groups, market analysis, whatever you want to call it. To sum it up -

    if (no complaint)
    stick to status quo
    else
    fix complaint

    The problem is that complaints are usually symptoms of larger problems, and by tacking on simple fixes, Microsoft usually just ends up with a convoluted framework for whatever product they happen to be fixing.

    Your average joe doesn't understand the potential of new technology, he is just reacting to the new-fangled features you just put in. This is why technology design by survey fails miserably. You need someone who fully understands what is at the edge of current technology, and who can creatively apply it in ways that enhance the average joe's life. I don't get the impression that Ballmer gets this idea. In fact, I have heard through the grapevine that the problem is ingrained in Microsoft company culture, and no one challenges it, because the company is conservatively micro-managed from the top.

    Microsoft gets away with this model because the average joe is unaware of innovative concepts while they are new, before Microsoft has copied them. But the software remains clunky, akin to cars of the old days, where you cranked the thing up by hand and put up with the smell, noise, and the breakdowns - because there was still a tangible benefit. People thought this was the nature of cars back then, and accepted it because they couldn't see any better. Better engineering will eventually make computer systems easier to use and more reliable, analagous to what the Japanese did to the auto industry. Aside from good design the Japanese automakers popularized the use of statistics to test their components to make sure the performed reliably, carefully revising materials and design based on what worked, rather than going with the what was most available on the market. The computer industry could use that same sense of perfection, followed through with design by people who understand both people and the techonology, and of course lots of unit testing.

    Microsoft hasn't re-invented itself as management would like shareholders to think, it has only re-hashed itself into something superficially better in order to avoid any more slip. Until the old guard leaves, that isn't likely to happen. This can be witnessed in the company's financials - growth continues, but is slowing in a growing market, despite a monopoly. If you want to make some dough, invest in some Apple stock and watch Microsoft sink in the long run - since it is pretty clear that they will be sticking to their guns with Ballmer. I've never owned a Mac but I've used a few and I see them as the next best thing, especially with the affordable mini model out, a good architecture to boot, and style that drops Microsoft right on its ass.
  • My two cents (Score:4, Interesting)

    by el_womble ( 779715 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @11:51AM (#12477938) Homepage

    I think the interesting point that this article raises is that Microsoft is no longer able to bully its competition. Back in the days of the web browser wars and even the GUI wars Microsoft was able to win because it could either undercut, buy out, or out lawyer any corporation on the planet. In the absense of innovation and an active monopoly these appear to be Microsofts only weapons and they are all neutured by OSS. You can't undercut or buy-out free software, and the global nature of OSS seems to give lawyers the willies. There is only one thing left for them to try and thats patents, and I don't anybody really wants to open that can of worms, even M$... but they will.

    Just as Microsoft needs an Apple, I think OSS needs a Microsoft (if only to keep it on its toes) so I don't want to see M$ die completely just reduce its market share to a healthy 30-50%. But I'd also like to see them release some decent products. I can't remember the last time I saw some Microsoft software and thought "Hey thats cool!". They've got the resources what's stopping them?

  • by gathas ( 588371 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @12:26PM (#12478267)
    These articles only partially get it right. Alot of what MS makes their big $ off of is becoming a commodity. It doesn't really even matter if Firefox and OOo are "better". This part of the computer industry will become less and less the sweet spot for growth and innovation. If MS concentrates on these markets but fails in the growths area (connected non-PC devices, web services etc.) then they will die. If they climb to the high ground and are successful, I think one day we will be saying "Remember when MS used to make Office?". As much as I like the open source movement, Apple and Google are MS's real problems. Linux, Firefox, OOo are just commoditizing the trailing edge where MS will lose if they try and key fighting on this front. I mean how much more can you improve office, at some point OOo will catch up.
  • by guidryp ( 702488 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @01:11PM (#12478828)
    I would say microsoft is attacking everywhere. They are leveraging money and monopoloy into new markets all the time. Yeah there is some competition nipping at their heels, but it is hard to stand in the way of an unchecked monopoly with a huge wad of cash.

    PDAs/Smartphones: They keep respinning this and getting better and getting more market share. Any prediction when they hit #1?

    Game Consoles/SW: Jan 2007: It is not out of the question to consider that Xbox2 will be the number one gaming console in North America. MS will probably also be a significant publisher (having bought out a pile of gaming companies)

    Next Gen DVD: Microsoft had its own compression format placed as one of the mandatory codecs in both formats..

    The list could probably go on an on, but anwhere money is being made in large amount MS will be there and eventually will be a significant if not dominant player.

    Under-estimate them at your folly.
  • by walterbyrd ( 182728 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @01:40PM (#12479140)
    I mean, that is supposed to be the entire idea of capitalism: competition. No?

    I suppose that msft has monopolized the desktop for so long, that the very idea of msft having to compete like a normal company is considered peculiar.
  • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @07:46PM (#12483220)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

He has not acquired a fortune; the fortune has acquired him. -- Bion

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