Catch up on stories from the past week (and beyond) at the Slashdot story archive

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Education Security Privacy

Hacker High School Starts to Spread 99

Posted by Zonk from the get-em-young dept.
thelordx writes "Hacker High School, an initiative from the non-profit Institute for Security and Open Methodology, pioneers of the OSSTMM have received some media coverage for their Hacker High School Program. It's a license-free open-source program that provides security and privacy-awareness teaching materials to teachers. Here's the link to the BBC stream and article about the project."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Hacker High School Starts to Spread More

Hacker High School Starts to Spread

Comments Filter:

  • Noggonnawork (Score:5, Insightful)

    by soniCron88 ( 870042 ) on Saturday April 09, 2005 @03:31PM (#12188547) Homepage
    The concept is interesting, although I hardly see this type of thing ever getting very big. Unfortunately, especially in the U.S., too many people will be against this kind of alternative teaching, probably likening it to getting kids to stay off drugs by encouraging them to try them first. I doubt there'd be much support for this outside the ISECOM, even though this type of experience would benefit anyone going into the network administration sector.

    FTA: "The school believes there could be jobs out there for this new breed of ethical hacker."

    There are, and have been for quite some time. The FBI employs at least one former hacker, that I know of. There is an article [earthweb.com] that explores this a bit more, though it's a little dated.

    Besides, high school kids already have too many freedoms: open campus lunches, driver's licenses, free thinking. We need to put an end to this now! ;)

    • Re:Noggonnawork (Score:5, Interesting)

      by civman2 ( 773494 ) on Saturday April 09, 2005 @03:41PM (#12188595) Homepage
      We don't have open campus lunches. We're not even allowed to leave the cafeteria during lunch.

      High School is really a lot more like prison than an educational experience, but I suppose going through it does teach you a lot about real life. Paul Graham wrote the best essay I've ever read about what High School is really there for and how you can get through it and actually learn a thing or two: "What You'll Wish You'd Known" [paulgraham.com].
      • When I was in high school, we used to order in pizza to the students lounge, when the cafeteria food was something that we didn't appreciate so much. But now that I'm in college and have to pay for my food I've gained some respect to the random cafeteria lunch, it wasn't always good, but atleast it was free.

      • We don't have open campus lunches. We're not even allowed to leave the cafeteria during lunch.

        Poor baby. When I went to high school, we didn't have a cafeteria, and we were still not allowed to leave the campus.

        High School is really a lot more like prison than an educational experience, but I suppose going through it does teach you a lot about real life.

        Primary education is about just that - general education. It was not intended to be fun before the self-esteem generation took over, and it doesn'


      • The local high school opens their premier ICT room
        each day (at lunchtime) to kids who want to use computers
        As lunchtime is about 30 min's, the student council
        has proposed also opening the same room at Recess.

        There has to be a teacher (doing "Yard Duty" there),
        so there's a cost involved to the school.

        But one SC rep says she has a list of teachers
        willing to volunteer for a Recess shift,
        now & then.

        So, I guess this school has a little different
        take on who "owns" the computers (ie, t

    • Re:Noggonnawork (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Jicksta ( 760596 )
      The thing is, you can't just go up to a school counselor and suggest starting a new class, despite its curriculum.

      American public schools do not have the power to create new classes for their students. To do this, one would need to propose this course to the ISD's school board, whereupon they do a cost-benefit analysis, review the available materials, and take input from the other sub-organizations such as the PTA.

      A proposal such as this doesn't require just convincing a teacher, principal, or counselor..

      • I don't know how hard some may find it to
        "start a new [course]" but it -is- possible
        to add such topics to a general ICT course.

        Here, teachers can run their courses as they
        wish (within reason, of course), so changing
        an existing course to meet a need or expressed
        interest (eg, one student's request to learn
        to program) is easily done.

        If a teacher wishes to let some would-be hackers
        do their thing, it's easy enough to do, eg,
        just by offering the same option to all.

        Not everybody needs to

  • Bad name (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Umbral Blot ( 737704 ) on Saturday April 09, 2005 @03:34PM (#12188558) Homepage
    How many teachers do you think are going to hear about this and react as following: "hacker highshool? why would we want to teach our kids to be hackers (computer criminals)". Perhaps they could have called it something involving the word security or protection.
    • it could be interpreted that "hacker high school" teaches you how to defend yourself against "bad hackers"

      note, the full title on the website:
      "hacker highschool security awareness for teens"
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • Re:Bad name (Score:3, Funny)

          by tomhudson ( 43916 )
          Nah, all they're doing is starting an "arms race".

          Now, when the kids hack the system and change their grades, maybe some of the teachers will have enough of a clue to be able to restore them from a backup...

          ... then again, probably not [theregister.co.uk] ...

          Lesson 1: Social Engineering.

          Student to teacher: What's your password?
          Teacher: I can't tell you that!
          Student: Here's some chocolate ..
          Teacher: May password is 1-2-3-4-5

    • Re:Bad name (Score:2, Insightful)

      by neithian ( 814705 )
      Eh, I guess it'd be a nice way for them to be corrected and _hopefully_ learn what the real meaning of it is?

    • Re:Bad name (Score:2, Interesting)

      by bonch ( 38532 )
      The class itself sounds like a double-edged sword. People who don't have the knowledge to hack are taught everything they need to know to get started. For everyone else who would otherwise get hacked, the technology is over their heads to begin with. I don't think most high school kids want to sit and hear about firewalls and ports--the ones who would care about such a thing already know about security.

      The intentions of this course are good, but I question the effectiveness. But I could be wrong; maybe
      • I agree with this (why did you get modded down i wonder?). I know that in my high school students who were destined to become good computer professionals had already begun to explore the technical world. Those students are the ones who would benefit from these classes, but by the time that they take them they will already have mastered the simple knowledge that this class will cover, and yes it will have to stay simple since not everyone will come into it being technically aware.

    • Re:Bad name (Score:2, Insightful)

      by 0x461FAB0BD7D2 ( 812236 )
      Force those teachers to read the Hacker's Manifesto [cybercrimes.net]. It'll take them 2 minutes, but they'll understand.

      If teachers believe that hacking is the same as computer crime, it is the responsibility of those who know to teach them what it really means. They believe it is computer crime because that is the disinformation that the media spreads.

      I've had teachers who taught IT ethics courses generalize hacking as computer crime, using faulty logic and falsities. After arguing in class, I emailed her later explainin

    • Re:Bad name (Score:2, Insightful)

      by i_will_frag_u_all ( 792832 )
      I think the idea of the "hacker high school should be to get off that bad name. "hacker" to the general populus, means someone with malicious intent trying to get into your computer or files. I think they should use the name, and then maybe if some of the people that come out of the program are not criminals, it may redefine what people think.
    • I'm part of the ISECOM family, so I'll take a stab at addressing this concern:

      The concept of the class is to teach kids about the ethics and legalities of life online. Unfortunately, calling the class "Internet Ethics and Legalities" is going to draw far fewer kids in than "Hacker Highschool".

      However, if you look into ISECOM's other programs, such as the OSSTMM Professional Security Analyst (http://www.opsa.org) or the OSSTMM Professional Security Tester (http://www.opst.org), you'll notice a downplay of
      • as a contributer to HHS, I completely agree.

        Perhaps the "hacker" connotation has finally started to move out of the "criminal" sector and more into a "grok" type of connotation.

        I refer to myself as a hacker, but have never done anything (terribly) unethical, hold degrees in math, cosc, and criminal justice, have a sec clearance, and am a vulnerability researcher. I take pride in being a "hacker", and take pride in the HHS program as it completely encompasses the same ideologies that I posess w/regards to

    • The (traditional) hackers... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by linguae ( 763922 ) on Saturday April 09, 2005 @04:32PM (#12188831)

      ... need to organize a come up with a new name. The media has taken this term, which originally had a positive meaning, bastardized it when viruses became more widespread (since the journalists weren't bright enough to come up with their own term or use the right term; "Well, we heard them say hacker in their computer mumbo jumbo talk that we can't understand, so we'll just use that."), and the misusage of the word has gotten so bad that even Slashdotters and other "computer geeks" use "hacker" when the word "cracker" should be used.

      The computing community needs to come up with a new term that means, "a person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. RFC1392, the Internet Users' Glossary, usefully amplifies this as: A person who delights in having an intimate understanding of the internal workings of a system, computers and computer networks in particular." (quote from Jargon File). Perhaps the word "tinkerer" fits this description finely. Or, we can borrow a word from another language. Perhaps we can create a brand new word, I don't know.

      The point is, the media has stolen the word "hacker" and made the word defined to mean something completely different than it used to mean, Joe Average is using the media's definition, and older computer "hackers" can't use the term without being looked suspiciously. The word has been destroyed by the media. We need a new term, and the sooner, the better.

      • Personally, I'd rather return to the technically correct sense of the word. I know, however, that this is unlikely to say the least.

        The same mentality that means Joe Public Computer-User doesn't want to learn more than he has to about computers also means he doesn't want to learn more than he has to about computer terminology.

        This does suggest, though, that he probably won't learn the name we create to replace "hacker", unless its memorable and catchy.
      • Why use a new word when perfectly good ones are already available?

        For example: wizard, guru, samurai, maybe tinkerer indeed.

        Whatever it is, I think the pick should be some word that's hard to turn into something negative. "hacker" was far too obscure. Some of those words also have the advantage of still having a positive meaning in non-english speaking countries too.

        • The words wizard, guru, and samurai already have specialized meanings in the Jargon File; even though their meanings are very close to the meaning of "hacker," they have a more precise definition; according to the Jargon file, "A good hacker could become a wizard for something given the time to study it," and a guru "implies not only wizard skill but also a history of being a knowledge resource for others." A samurai is "a hacker who hires out for legal cracking jobs, snooping for factions in corporate po

          • Yup, I'm quite aware of it.

            I still think that whatever term is picked it should be easily understandable and have positive connotations attached, so that it should be much harder to corrupt. Maybe one of the words in the Jargon File could be adapted for the purpose.

            I'd say that whatever it is, it has to be an existent and well understood word, and which can be translated. "Hacker" is used as is in Spain, where nobody has the slightest clue it means anything but what the media says. On the other hand, word
      • What about "(computer) whiz"?

        Yes, it's a bit stereotypical and often applied to kids, but if we start using it generally everyone will know what we mean, and it's definitely a lot easier to reclaim than "hacker".

        Oh, and what of "geek" and "nerd"?
      • This brings to mind the scene in Office Space, where you first find out that Michael's full name is "Michael Bolton", and that he hates that the famous singer has ruined the name for everyone else.

        "Why not just go by Mike?"

        "No way, why should I change? He's the one who sucks."

        -Jay
      • grokker ? w00ter ? all-your-base-are-belong-to-us-er ? just some comments...it is an rf"C"
      • This is a great idea but I'm not crazy about "tinkerer" -- indeed, Merriam Webster [m-w.com] says this
        • to repair, adjust, or work with something in an unskilled or experimental manner

        The part I don't like is the explicit "unskilled" ... though it perhaps fits me, my ego rebels!

        I just spent 10 minutes playing with the thesaurus and, wonder of wonders, all the options sounded stupid, like I was using a thesaurus. I think the word has to be made-up to some extent. How to go about that though, is really very diff

      • The word has been destroyed by the media. We need a new term, and the sooner, the better.

        Won't work. Sooner or later, the media catch on and the cycle will continue. It is not worth the effort to play the cat-and-mouse game.

        However, we can fight back. If they destroyed our name, our revenge may lie in destroying their form. Won't be much loss anyway - the traditional investigative journalism was replaced by mass-produced junk news.

        Blogs, podcasting, Wikimedia and Ohmynews are the first steps.

        The victor

      • The term hacker is established and apt. It would be a mistake and most likely a failure to try to establish a different name. The ambiguity in the meaning is normal and based in reality. Consider a similar term, 'rebel'. This can also take on very negative connotations in certain contexts, like for example where rebel militias may have engaged in executions and torture. But it would be silly to drop the usage of the term 'rebel' in response to something like that. Hackers just need to keep hacking the publi

    • How many teachers do you think are going to hear about this and react as following: "hacker highshool? why would we want to teach our kids to be hackers (computer criminals)". Perhaps they could have called it something involving the word security or protection.

      This is exactly how my school would react. My district just came out with a new Internet Usage Policy that explictly bans "hacking." It's more than a little bit sad when those writing the rules about Internet usage don't know the first thing ab

  • If the goal is to increase the kids awareness of security and prevention of things like identity theft, they should just be taught good internet safety practices and the use of a firewall and anti-virus software.

    Why should we teach them how to hack?
    • Oh wahhhhhhh, you missed the point.
      In this day and age the "hacker" mentality is exactly what we need to teach kids.
      Question Authority!
      Figure it out!
      This is google - it will help you figure out anything!
      The computer is not something to be afraid of.

      If ANYTHING can help kids understand these tenants of the hacker culture its useful. Lets teach internet safety and best practices somewhere else, the goal of a hacker course should be something else entirely.

    • Re:no teaching the right things (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Why should we teach them how to hack?

      They have to be able to check the list of whether or not they've been accepted into their chosen colleges of course you insensitive clod!

    • Because this isn't about protecting your individual computer, it's more as a start into bigger and better things. Eventually, someone has to WRITE the firewall and anti-virus.

      Also, it uses a live linux cd to teach. You're doing kids a huge favor by teaching linux and linux security in class, and not just telling them to pony up money every year for resource-eating software that doesn't always solve the problem!

  • I.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Turn-X Alphonse ( 789240 ) on Saturday April 09, 2005 @03:41PM (#12188594) Journal
    I saw this on the news earlier. They seemed to deliver it VERY poorly. Rather than explain how "hacking" is infact "testing the system" as it came across to me, it pretty much played into the steriotype of "we break into computers".

    Of course this was "Click online" which never gives you any facts, it just goes "oh look a new iPod" or "theres more security holes, work out for yourself how to avoid being owned".
    • I'm not sure what program you saw, but I think you're mistaking another website with ISECOM's HHS program.

      If you go to http://www.hackerhighschool.org/lessons.shtml and http://www.osstmm.org you're going to see no signs of a free ipod :).

      In the next release, we're going to try to incorporate even more traditional security fundamentals. Essential core pieces of the Orange Book (http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/library/rainbow/ 5 200.28-STD.pdf), the Red Book (http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/library/rainbow
      • I pointed out I saw it on BBC news 24. A show called "click online", the link was to the BBC. So I skipped TFA and posted a comment. Click online protrayed it as "evil hacking turned good" and the guys they interviewed just threw around technical gargen to try and look smart ( I was only half watching, it's on at 7am when I goto bed, so I watch it while I do the last minute things).
    • I went through a couple of their courses, and was not too impressed. They teach mainly how to become a script kiddie.

      On the other hand, there is a serious need to teach CS students how the systems they design will eventually be hacked. Everyone should understand how to analyze a system for weaknesses. There are too many authentication systems with blatant holes, too many communication syatems that are wide open to DOS attacks.

      One step further, one should also teach how to test systems for possible secur

  • Cource Selection (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Basic Hacking 101
    Intermediate Hacking 102
    Advanced Hacking 103

    Electives

    Phishing
    DDOS bot management
    FBI Hacking basics
    Virus writing
    Port Knocking 101
  • Increasing awareness of security related computer problems: Good!

    "Hackers" BAD!

    Making teens memorize the motto "antivirus / firewall / no pirate programs" BAD

    Of course, It doesn't seems to me they can teach anythong useful (like nmap for instance, or how to "smash the stack")

  • Maybe (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 09, 2005 @03:48PM (#12188632)
    This might work, teaching kids early about this will make them become more aware of their internet usage. I know a lot of people who will freely post personal information about themselves, leave logs around, etc. With today's problems with viruses, security has become such a big concern and its quite the prize if anyone can manage to control it. It wont be recieved in good light however, thanks to the media. Whenever you hear of the word 'hacker' the average joe will think of crackers, identify thieft, etc.
  • ... hack into the school records and change your marks :)

  • Did slashdot forget.... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Eric(b0mb)Dennis ( 629047 ) on Saturday April 09, 2005 @04:00PM (#12188694)
    What the word hack, hacking et al.. really mean?

    hack1 Audio pronunciation of "hack" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hk)
    v. hacked, hacking, hacks
    v. tr.
    Slang. To cope with successfully; manage: couldn't hack a second job
    (removed the other meanings that don't really pertain to its use in with computers)

    I always thought of the term hacking as someone who could take what was available to them, and figure out a way while tinkering around to get whatever it was to do what YOU wanted it to. You hacked a solution.

    With the word associated with all this security mumbo jumbo now-a-days people lost track of what 'hackers' really were years ago.. some of the very people who pioneered a lot of existing technology we use today.

  • Theoretical? Yes!, Practical? NO! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jvd ( 874741 ) <albert.valentin@ ... Dl.com minus bsd> on Saturday April 09, 2005 @04:22PM (#12188793)
    Theoretically speaking is good. Practically speaking is not. I just got out of high school and even though a program like this would've been interesting, I know, that not everyone has the maturity to use this information. Yes, it's good, that they teach you how to protect yourself, but giving this information is as good as if they give you a gun and try to teach you how to use a gun "ethically". Some people will actually serve the purpose of the program, while others simply will not.

    Like I said, theoretically speaking, it's OK. Practically speaking, it will fail their purpose.

    • A good point, but I still think that attempting this would be a step in the right direction for protecting your files. This brings up another discussion on whether or not the drinking age should be lowered. Will teens drink less with beer being legal, or drink more? With that much resposibility, will people use it for good or for bad. "With power, comes great responsibility..."
      • I have other arguments for lowering the drinking age, if your old enough to go to war and kill other human beings, why the hell you aren't old enough to drink?

        It is my opinion, that yes, probably they will drink less, because (drinking) it's not going to be mysterious anymore, thus won't be cool. But, this not entierly about protecting who you are on the net, but at the same time teaching you how to think like a hacker, which, is what I mean.
  • We'll give them a controlled environment and let the student hacker know what is right and wrong. Now, as a student of hacking some 25 years ago, and knowing the mentality of the hacker (that has changed only in the tools available, and maybe the determination level a bit) then, I suspect a real hacker is not going to be afraid of being caught or care if some 'teacher' embraces their hobby or not. The profile of a hacker is pretty forward, they are loners, lack approval in their real lives, desire greatly

  • READ the LESSON PLANS (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The lesson plans are not on hacking, but are merely a slightly glorified how to securely use your computer.

    As it is, CS education initiatives in high school are pretty disappointing, with the advanced placement curriculum being essentially "learn the syntax of java" and with more developed initiatives such as "Teach Scheme!" not being as widespread as they deserve. However, this pseudo hacker stuff surely takes the cake for being a true disappointment.

  • It Could Work (Score:2, Insightful)

    by stanleypane ( 729903 )
    I keep seeing comments along the lines of, "They shouldn't have used the word hacker, teacher's won't appeal to that." I think the entire point is being missed, however, as the target is the students. The inherent problem being that the teachers may not adopt the program and introduce it to the kids.

    Consider this, though. If I were in high school, I'd be much more intrigued to participate in a program called Hacker High School than I would Introduction to OS Security and the Internet.

    But that's just me.
  • ...worst senior prom ever!

  • [ Sorry, got my Subj line pre-published ]

    I was going to say:

    If teachers could modify the thing,
    they could pick & choose what to use.

    Send it out in a modifiable format
    (ie, if not already in one now...)

  • 'gotta get this puppy in modifyable format...

  • Marketers Will Kill this Before it Spreads... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by CodeBuster ( 516420 ) on Saturday April 09, 2005 @07:12PM (#12189574)
    It was refreshing to see that the term hacker, as it was used in the article, was more closely in line with the original meaning of the term among those who identified themselves as "hackers" in the late 1980's and early 1990's. In the United States the marketers are already conducting a full-scale assault on the hearts and minds of our children in an attempt to breed the next generation of mindless consumers. Any type of program that encourages original thinking, awareness of privacy, and pursuit of full and accurate information is anathema to these marketers. It is ironic that corporations, pushing everything from junk foods, trendy clothing, and mass market entertainment to corporate propaganda that is passed off as factual "classroom materials", have nearly unlimited access to middle and secondary school students while a program which attempts to present an alternative position that encourages students to think for themselves and reach informed conclusions is quickly squelched. Is it any wonder that we are largely a nation of debtors?
  • Hackers: Originally used to describe a computer
    enthusiast who pushed a system to its highest
    performance through clever programming.


    Now I wonder why I hate the media....

  • The links are dead...?

    Some of the most important topics unfinisher
    or (apparently) unavailable...!?!

    If not now, when?

  • I thought this might be appropriate (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 09, 2005 @07:58PM (#12189814)
    Is your son a computer hacker? [adequacy.org]
    • Ohh...that old chesnut. A classic in comedy and brilliant commmentary on how people jump to conclusions. I believe I fail on some 8/10 counts. What counts? I.E I don't dress like a complete tool who fell into the TK MAXX bargain bin and I've never played Quake. Feel free to bash me for the last one. I'm in a major computing course in the UK and you don't actually get taught anything that would be in any way useful in terms of fixing or setting up a network or anything. Our school net is held together with s
  • ...you get the 1337 seal of approval ?
  • What are the resources for setting up a programming club for High School students? I suppose getting recruits keeping them interested, growing the skills in the group and promoting them to being part of established Free/open source projects. A how to would be nice, I have just started with my

    Declaration_of_Intent [geocities.com] to start the ball rolling.

    My intent: to coach a fee newbies with my experience, its an enthusiasm for experience swap basically... Any comments would be appreciated, recruits encouraged.

    Not pr

  • This should churn out a generation of security professionals able to protect the website of any company they work for.

    Yay for hacker school!

Slashdot Top Deals

"Money is the root of all money." -- the moving finger

Close