The Tin-Whisker Menace 261
An anonymous reader writes "Fortune has an article about how the recent environmental push to completely eliminate lead from electronic components and wiring may eventually lead to the next Y2K problem of slowly-growing tin whiskers short-circuiting equipment.""
I don't get the connection (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I don't get the connection (Score:2)
Re:I don't get the connection (Score:5, Informative)
"A tin whisker is a single crystal of tin that grows spontaneously from a surface a pure tin. They are typically only a few microns (?m) in diameter but can grow to lengths of more than 10 mm (though lengths on the order of 1 mm are far more common) [NIST Website, 2002]. Tin whisker growth is spontaneous, not relying on external influences of current or electrolytic action, more commonly associated with mechanisms like "dendritic" growth, conductive filament formation and electromigration. While early studies believed that tin recrystallization (which occurs at 50 deg C) played some role in whisker formation, recent studies have reported as much, if not greater, propensity for whisker formation at temperatures as low as room temperature [NASA Web Site, 2002].(....)Conventional wisdom attributes tin whiskering to internal stresses in the pure tin layer, with a primary source being the compressive stresses caused by electroplating. However, tin whiskers have also been reported from surfaces where tin has been applied by methods other than electroplating. In the presence of compressive stress, whiskers are extruded over time, as a stress release mechanism. Many factors may contribute to the stress in the plating, including intermetallic formation, thermal expansion mismatches, corrosion of the substrate, and externally applied forces such as bending, lead forming and application of pressure. Defects such as scratches and nicks have been reported to magnify the effects by causing local stress concentrations and possibly providing openings in any protective surface oxide layers. In fact, these external factors may cause whiskering in samples that may otherwise be resistant to the phenomenon. For example, tin whiskers have been observed to form on tin finished surfaces that had been exposed to hot oil dip to fuse the tin (a known mitigating process) [Cunningham and Donahue, 1990]. Adding a trace amount of another element (i.e. Pb or Bi) has been shown to reduce the tendency of plating to grow whiskers."
Re:I don't get the connection (Score:2)
It's those idiot greens again (Score:4, Funny)
Re:It's those idiot greens again (Score:3, Funny)
Re:It's those idiot greens again (Score:5, Informative)
Re:It's those idiot greens again (Score:4, Informative)
Re:It's those idiot greens again (Score:2)
hmm..
Re:It's those idiot greens again (Score:2)
2.Consumer electronics dying in two years because of tin whiskers? Many consumer electronics do have a two year shelf life. At the factory I do product testing for, we discovered tin whiskers on some or our products. It freaked most of us out cause we had never seen it before; the older guys at worked informed us of the history of tin whiskers. We have yet to see any failures
Re:It's those idiot greens again (Score:3, Insightful)
And for what it's worth, I have a MSEE and design digital electronics for a living.
Re:It's those idiot greens again (Score:4, Insightful)
But you go, USA, put lead back in everything, just to be the rugged individualists you are and show the rest of the world.
Hell, do you think Ancient Rome would have taken any crap from anyone else criticizing them for their lead pots? Exactly. USA! USA!
Re:It's those idiot greens again (Score:3, Informative)
Not to mention that you don't want this to be happening on your mission-critical server.
Re:It's those idiot greens again (Score:5, Funny)
Plastic is superior in any case (Score:2)
Re:Plastic is superior in any case (Score:3, Interesting)
My best friend owns one of the top plumbing outfits around here. He routinely does the more difficult jobs in Pebble Beach and Big Sur. He also does the bread and butter work in the less expensive areas where cost is the paramount consideration. Years ago, he won a bid on an apartment complex in Marina, a town next to the old Fort Ord land.
To save costs he picked up some plastic pipe from a
Re:Plastic is superior in any case (Score:2)
Re:Plastic is superior in any case (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:It's those idiot greens again (Score:2)
Yes, it is. (Score:3, Insightful)
Lead isn't a death-sentence, it can be safely used. I've been drinking from lead pipes and living in lead-painted walls my whole life and never shown elevated levels. My dad is a lead inspector and he says that virtually all the lead poisoning cases are caused by lead paint dust and chips, kids get the dust on their hands and toys and it ends up in their blood.
This sort of demonizing really pisses me of
Re:It's those idiot greens again (Score:2)
Let's talk reality here (Score:5, Insightful)
Now these tin whiskers aside, this sucks for people who like ot do electronics work at home. The only solder blends that are easy to work with contain lead. A 63/37 Sn/Pb or 62/36/2 Sn/Pb/Ag blend is what you need for a low melting point and nice, clean, easy application. The non-lead solders are much harder to work with since they need much higher temperatures. Easy to burn out a component if you aren't careful.
Now compare the amount of lead I use to make an electronic device (like 25-30% of a tube the size of my pinky, that's less than 40% lead and wound such as to use less than 30% of the space in the tube) to a lead-acid car battery, which all cars have and are replaced about once every 5 years.
The no lead in circuts is a wonderful example of environmentalists going after a non issue and fucking things up for people. Yes, lead is a problem, it can contaminate water tables and lead poisoning is NASTY. However the small amount of lead used on PCBs is NOT the problem, and getting rid of it just creats MORE waste by creating electronics that die faster.
Re:Let's talk reality here (Score:3, Interesting)
It seems to me that the whole lead issue is addressed very erratically. The solder in a circuit board is a huge problem, but anybody can go down to Wal-Mart and buy a tin of airgun pellets containing about a 1/4 pound of pure lead and spray it all over their back yard. Lead encased in computer monitor glass is a huge crisis, but nobody talks much about 36-inch TV tubes, and if you shop for wine glasses some of t
Re:Let's talk reality here (Score:2)
Not around here. Lead is not allowed in projectiles.
Lead encased in computer monitor glass is a huge crisis
I have not heard anything about that. As far as I know putting lead into glass is a pretty good way of disposing of it.
Re:Let's talk reality here (Score:2)
Yes I knew that much. But as far as I am aware, lead glass is stable and does not leak lead into the environment. Incidentally, you can get unleaded crystal with chalk instead -- "Bohemian Crystal".
Re:Let's talk reality here (Score:2)
Re:Let's talk reality here (Score:2)
There's only 12 states right now that even have legislation in the works to mitigate the disposal of computer products. The EPA has to suggest a problem and then states have to decide upon a solution that works for them.
It's a process that's slow, but has been doing a heck of a lot since 1976.
And it is a LOT eaisier to regulate the use in newer products than older ones. Keep in mind, there's very few houses that have wine glasses, and a heck
Re:Let's talk reality here (Score:2)
Re:Let's talk reality here (Score:2)
On top of that a bit of "smearing" is actually desirable on TVs since it helps to mask artifacts. In contrast monitors must be crisp because they're usually used for relatively small print. Imagine using a monitor with only 6 lines of text.
Re:Let's talk reality here (Score:2)
Re:Let's talk reality here (Score:2)
This is the likely reason why the manufactures aren't loudly protesting the lead-free future. If a device dies, it enforces an upgrade much better than mere moral obsolescence, which promises some future profit.
Re:Let's talk reality here (Score:2)
My suggestion is to stockpile the lead-based solder. It's a temporary solution, but will buy some time. (Making your own SnPb alloy and turning it into flux-filled wires is a bit too difficult to propose as a solution, though in the future it will probably be the only way.)
Also, it's necessary to be aware about various gotchas. Some parts are plated w
Rodney Dangerfield (Score:3, Interesting)
There are far more dangerous materials in common usage out there, but treated with proper respect they can be used. Bismuth is significantly more toxic than lead, as is cadmium,
I cringe everytime I think of how many Ni-Cd rechargeable batteries get thrown into landfills all over the place, including arid environments where life depends upon the availability of quality groundwater.
I dunno if this is the case everywhere, but my local public waste handling facility has an amnesty day, where you can bring i
Re:Let's talk reality here (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Let's talk reality here (Score:3, Informative)
In automobile batteries? Get real. There's no suitable replacement available.
Re:Let's talk reality here (Score:2)
Re:nope, greens are still idiots. (Score:3, Insightful)
To be fair, the average life expectancy back then (1901) was like 49 years. Now it's 77 years (in the US, anyways). [wikipedia.org].
Granted, much of the increase is due to better medical care, but much of it's due to knowing things about hygene and the like that we didn't know back then. At one point, plates and the like had lots of lead in them, and people ingested
Re:It's those idiot greens again (Score:4, Informative)
Lead is a neurotoxin; children exposed to lead are at risk of developmental delays, reduced IQ, learning disabilities, hearing loss, reduced height and hyperactivity. Levels above 10 mcg/dL (about 100 ppb) are considered to be a health risk to children. Adults are at risk of anemia, nervous system dysfunction, kidney problems, hypertension, decreased fertility, and increased level of miscarriages.
It used to be that the biggest source of environmental lead was automobile exhaust, followed by lead paint. In the late 1970's 14.9 million children in the US had elevated blood lead levels. This figure declined to about 300,000 in the US CDC's 99-00 survey. Banning lead paint in 1978 and leaded gasoline's phase out starting in 1975 removed the sources of exposure.
In adults, levels above 24 mcg/dL are considered elevated and mostly come from workplace exposures, such as demolition, recycling and manufacturing. The number of adults with elevated blood lead levels has also been declining.
The problem with adult exposure is that without proper industrial hygiene, the lead comes home with them, providing a route of exposure to their children. 2-3% of children with elevated blood lead levels are exposed in this way.
Lead in manufacturing is an expense since exposure has to be managed. But, if you don't control it at the source, then you have to try and manage it in the waste stream which is much more expensive and difficult. Given the population density and the emphasis on recycling in the EU, lead exposure through this route is a decreasingly acceptable risk to the population.
P.S. The EU is the largest economy in the world so you tell your directors that you don't need that market anymore!
Re:It's those idiot greens again (Score:2)
Re:It's those idiot greens again (Score:2, Insightful)
The problem is: no one understands quite why lead prevents tin whisker formation, so it's hard to find a replacement that you *know* works. Texas Insrtuments has ten years of development on this, and has a solution that "looks good"; evryone else is behind that. Lead alloys have a 50 year track record, however, and the new apporaches just don't have the field data yet.
In order to fix a very small part of the
Re:It's those idiot greens again (Score:2)
Re:It's those idiot greens again (Score:3, Interesting)
I wonder... (Score:3, Interesting)
I mean, yeah, stuff remains modular. One module, one chip. A motherboard consisting of a central "motherboard chip" (containing both bridges, IDE circuitry, bus drivers, all the "integrated hardware" etc), plus slots for all the rest of the hardware, single-chip graphics card, single-chip RAM dice, etc. Just reduce the role of PCB to a board where slots are being located and connected to the central chip, no more batteries of capacitors, network of resistors, hundreds of small chips... Just load everything into one (even big) IC, add some radiator/cooler, and get rid of space and soldering problems.
Re:I wonder... (Score:4, Interesting)
There is some practical problems.
We may get close eventually. Practicality may dictate that we end up with 1-3 chips per home PC. Maybe optical connections between.
My time estimate for this to happen is 10-30 years from now.
One answer is balls (Score:2)
The beauty of this approach is that you can create different balls with different functionality and then cluster them in 3D shapes. You also can cool by using fluid or air-flow through the spaces between the balls. Of course you have to use something to create the connections between the balls, but it requires so little material that you can go back to using a pinch of lead in the mix.
Result?
Re:I wonder... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:I wonder... (Score:2)
Parallel busses mean lots of wires all the same length to negate timing differences, a serial bus will eliminate this. No doubt it will introduce other engineering constraints. Environmentally hazardous printed circuit board manufacturing for PC production could well be significantly reduced.
All being well it will become the grand unified bus !
PDA (Score:2)
So yes, they can do it. But apparently there isn't a big enough market for it.
Embedded systems development can do this now.. SoC is the acronym to google for.
Re:I wonder... (Score:2)
Re: I wonder (Score:4, Funny)
10. I wonder...
9. I was just thinking...
8. That's great, but what I was really looking for was...
7. You know what would be really cool...
6. Was it supposed to do that?...
5. I'm sure it'll look better by the time you've finished...
4. Would it be possible to...
3. To: Engineering From: Marketing Priority: Urgent
2. Did someone tell you to do it this way?...
1. How hard would it be to...
Re:I wonder... (Score:2)
Re:I wonder... (Score:2)
Re:I wonder... (Score:2)
It's not the pins that are the problem for high denisity interconnect components, the silicon chip gets attached to a ceramic/plastic substrate using solder. There are hundreds to thousands of solder connections only a couple hundred microns apart.
Other package types such as TSOP and surface mount capacitors have connections on the order of 1mm or less, so they can be short
No (Score:5, Insightful)
So supposing this problem is as stated, it'll just lead to higher failure rates of electronics. That's not a catastrophe, just something we'll have to deal with, either by changing the methods used or simply by increasing the rate at which we replace devices.
Mad Tin Disease? (Score:3)
Tin Whiskers are less like Y2K, more like Mad Cow [google.com] -- an insidious, slow-growing disease that consumes our neural infrastructure.
-kgj
Re:No (Score:2)
paint finish? (Score:2, Interesting)
Lead on the cirquit boards is a huge sleeping environmental problem and those who are tempted to shout 'tree higger' now might want to inform themselves on the potential lead hazards first.
-silence
Re:paint finish? (Score:3, Funny)
Looks like you combined to very commonly used words by bigots.
Re:paint finish? (Score:2)
What the hell is a tree higger? Some sort of insect?
People need to get some fucking perspective. Lead solder on printed circuit boards is not a "huge sleeping environmental problem". The coal burning power plant that is supplying your electricity is a major problem. The 5-ton Canyonero SUV that your 110 lb wife uses to commute to work is a major problem. A gazillion tons of nitrates washing into the watershed is a major problem.
Re:paint finish? (Score:2)
Conformal coating is used in MIL spec circuit
boards as an environmental barrier, but might
also be useful to suppress the "tin whiskers"
problem. It does introduce problems with
heat dissipation, however, which could cause
even earlier system failure. The only computer
users who wouldn't/couldn't use conformal coating
are OCes (OverClockers), but they routinely
trade up their computers long before any "tin
whiskers" might cause problems anyway.
Re:paint finish? (Score:3)
Also lead is used because it is suitable for keeping the melting point low for electronics soldering, but other metals also inhibit the formation of whiskers. This leads to a number of interesting questions:
1) How much lead is required to inhibit whisker formation? Is it possible to use a "very low lead content" solder instead of a "lead free" solder and avoid both problems?
2) What is the environmental cost of havin
Tin whiskers eh? (Score:3, Funny)
Good job... (Score:3, Funny)
"The page cannot be displayed. There are too many people accessing the Web site at this time."
Duplicate story (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Duplicate story (Score:2)
Every time someone moved a floor tile, the whiskers would get broken off and thrown into the air (yeah, I was breathing this stuff) and some would go into the power supplies shorting everything out.
We didn't really notice until it was decided we neeted to run another loop of power and ALL the tiles were lifted along one row of
Re:Duplicate story (Score:2)
Not really a dupe. More like another story about the same thing.
Anyway, I recall that there isn't a consensus on whether zinc whiskers exist. Some folks say it's a huge problem, others haven't seen them at all.
Cat whiskers, however, do exist. And they are a MENACE.
sealant (Score:3, Insightful)
Then again, this problem doesn't work out so bad for the hardware manufacturers, now does it?
Jerry
http://www.syslog.org/ [syslog.org]
Re:sealant (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:sealant (Score:2)
Re:sealant (Score:2)
It's called "conformal coating", and many PCBs already have it.
Masking isn't even remotely a challenge- it's used extensively. Many PCBs are 'wave' soldered, which means a wave is set up in a solder tank, and the peak of the wave barely makes contact with the board from side to side.
Re:sealant (Score:2, Informative)
http://physics.about.com/od/condensedmatter/a/soft metalwisker.htm [about.com]
Soft Metal Wiskers
from AIP Physics News
AIP Physics News Update #711
Soft-metal whiskers, tiny metallic protrusions that grow like hair from soft metals, are a problem that can cause electronic short circuits leading, in some cases, to the failure of heart pacemakers, avionic relays, and satellites. What to do with the unwanted whiskers---and, in the first place, understanding how they
Re:sealant (Score:2)
Re:sealant (Score:2)
I imagine thats the sort of thing that adding a few imp
Re:sealant (Score:3, Informative)
Mah cat has tin whiskers (Score:5, Funny)
</drawl>
woof.
Nasa blown into orbit (Score:2)
There are too many people accessing the Web site at this time.
Please try the following:
* Click the Refresh button, or try again later.
* Open the nepp.nasa.gov home page, and then look for links to the information you want.
HTTP 403.9 - Access Forbidden: Too many users are connected
Internet Information Services
Technical Information (for support personnel)
* Background:
This error can occur if the Web server is busy and cannot process your request due to hea
Re:Nasa blown into orbit (Score:2)
Knowing NASA, after just one server crashes and burns, the rest will be grounded for years and years and the USA will have to rely on Russian servers...
wither the tin-foil hat? (Score:4, Funny)
Heavy Metal! (Score:5, Funny)
Tin Whiiiiiiiiiskers
They cancelled IT Class
Tin Whiiiiiiiiiskers
They come from Satan's ass..
Hairs of the Devil, items of no good repute
If the grow to a certain lenght, the PC's can't compute!
Tin Whiiiiiiiiiskers
(guitar solo)
(reprise)
Mod Parent +Funny (Score:2)
-kgj
Forget tin Whiskers, Nanotechnology will kill. (Score:3, Interesting)
The small particles being produced with nanotechnology concepts will enable it to invade and affect the body in ways that connot possibly be handeled by todays technology or our immune systems.
I'm all for technology but we need some protections before a company starts spewing these waste/production nanoparticles off into the enviroment in order to save in producing costs for that lastest flat screen tv using carbon nanotubes.
Re:Forget tin Whiskers, Nanotechnology will kill. (Score:2)
Temperature cycling (Score:4, Interesting)
At last a sciency based explanation (Score:2)
Gadget makers rejoice, you've got a new excuse to keep refresh cycles short...
Other Brands? (Score:3, Funny)
Nick
Typical Fortune crap (Score:2)
Why not just use conformal coating? (Score:2)
Metallurgy (Score:2)
Etch-a-sketch Fix (Score:2)
Re:Why are they mentioning Y2K? (Score:3, Insightful)
Forinstance if AMD started manufacturing the AMD64 3200+ and got the substitues wrong, they would all start failing at rougly the same time, taking down all computers that are built using them.
It's not such a date of failure but the i
Re:Whatever. (Score:2)
Re:Whatever. (Score:2)
Re:Whatever. (Score:2, Informative)
A capacitor can be identified by the letters "uF" (which stands for "micro-Fara
Re:Whatever. (Score:2)
Re:Whatever. (Score:2)
even for someone who's never seen it before it's easy to spot.
Re:Whatever. (Score:2)
Re:Whatever. (Score:3, Informative)
Dead board. I've seen a few ibms and no-name boards with these. Most of the affected capacitors seem to have an x on the top of them. They split apart at the seams and ooze all over the board.
Re:Whatever. (Score:2)
Damn.
Re:Nothing like a (Score:2)
Problem:
"volume of electronic waste showing up in landfills began ballooning."
EU solution:
Ban lead use in electronics.
Why not stop putting the lead in the landfills instead?
This helps with both the landfill volume shortage and 'envronmental lead' problems.
Possible incentives include:
1)An increasing $/(lead unit) deposit on problematic consumer items. Deposit is returned to the consumer when the old item is turned in at either the purchase point of the new
Re:Nothing like a (Score:2)
If Bad Things (tm) are winding up in the dump, then start educating those who discard them, even offering some kind of incentive.
My city has a solid waste recycling facility just outside of the city limits. For the last two years I have taken everything electronic which needs disposal to this site. Interestingly, all electronics go into the "hazardous waste" section. I have explained the reasoning to a number of people.