The Continued Advance of VoIP 159
A reader writes: "With the recent VoIP ruling from the FCC, it appears that the playing field in the US is ready for take off. There's been some more coverage on that, but companies are begining to wonder about how to manage all of this - but PMC-Sierra (one of the big chip makers) has announced additional support for it."
Who on slashdot needs a phone (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Who on slashdot needs a phone (Score:2)
Re:Who on slashdot needs a phone (Score:2)
(My long-distance bill for the last three months was a whopping seventy cents, so maybe I'm atypical.)
Re:Who on slashdot needs a phone (Score:2)
I got VOIP because I wasn't ready to hack my DirecTiVo to use ethernet and wanted to have a dedicated fax machine. And the different in price being $50 from Verizon vs $15 from Vonage just wasn't justifiable.
I use my cell phone as my only phone, why do I need a land line anymore? The cell phone is something most people have these days and
Re:Who on slashdot needs a phone (Score:2)
It's time (Score:5, Funny)
LD providers run IP, too (Score:5, Informative)
Most of the big long distance companies have their own fiber and use it to carry Internet traffic. Probably most of the bits in this post travelled over those very lines. Let's see:
AT&T [att.com]. Savvis [savvis.net] doesn't appear to be in the long distance business.Some smaller outfits just lease capacity or resell it, but they're agile enough to figure out what to do.
Re:LD providers run IP, too (Score:3, Insightful)
(Of course, they spend less, too, because they don't have to do the billing processing for the individual call. But I still think that the long-distance outfits wind up with less profit from VOIP than they did from long-distance phone calls.)
So: If their profits are going to go down, and we can see it coming, then sell their stock.
(Disclaimer: I am nei
Re:LD providers run IP, too (Score:2)
Re:LD providers run IP, too (Score:1)
Are you sure? (Score:1)
Riding the VOIP wave (Score:5, Interesting)
My company has been on VOIP globally for a while now. Definitely reaching critical mass now.
The system would not work outside the Western world, though, with the spotty coverage, limited bandwidth and power (electricity) problems that do exist.
Re:Riding the VOIP wave (Score:1)
Re:Riding the VOIP wave (Score:3, Informative)
Lazy man's link [lingosupport.com] to page that says it works behind 'consumer multiport router'. It's the 'alternate' method, not their 'recommended' one.
Probably hate the tech support with buggy piece o crap routers. (I've been admin'ing vpn for 1st time recently and TONS of cheap routers have problems.
Re:Riding the VOIP wave (Score:2)
No problem at all
Re:Riding the VOIP wave (Score:3, Interesting)
Will that work thru nat? (Behind my firewall)
Yes, but there are some possible quality problems.
Note that I'm speaking from my Vonage experience, but I expect Lingo would be the same.
Yes, it will work from behind a NATing router/firewall. Assuming you've got a good stateful firewall you shouldn't even have to mess around with any port forwarding. In my case my firewall is a Linux box w/iptables. Works great. If you have a less intelligent firewall, you may have to forward some UDP ports to your VO
Re:Riding the VOIP wave (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyway, you can test your VoIP quality from anywhere with IP and a Java-enabled browser at http://testyourvoip.com/ [testyourvoip.com] if you are concerned about your IP quality not being up to snuff, or if you want to see ho
Prices (Score:3, Informative)
$20 per month = Unlimited calling to US, Canada and Western Europe.
$35 per month = Unlimited calling to US, Canada, Western Europe, China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan, Singapore, Australia, New Zealand, Malaysia, South Korea and Guam.
Hey Verizon ... Can you here me now?
Re:Riding the VOIP wave (Score:2, Interesting)
Bandwidth too please (Score:5, Insightful)
Latency, not bandwidth (Score:5, Informative)
Note the 70ms comes from the time it takes for voice to travel across a reasonably large room - a delay the human brain will automatically account for without interpreting it as having a lag in the conversation.
Re:Latency, not bandwidth (Score:3, Interesting)
You aren't going to be able to reach the 70ms latency from any where in the world to anywhere in the world.
The speed of light is about 299,792km/s. The cicumference of the earth is about 40,000 km, so the time it takes light to go half way around the world is about 65ms.
Electrons in a wire and photons in fiber don't travel as fast as light in a vacuum and wires/fiber aren't layed in
Re:Bandwidth too please (Score:2)
VoIP that interesting? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:VoIP that interesting? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:VoIP that interesting? (Score:2)
We have setup our SIP servers so that anybody can call our office for free. But if you want to call outside the office you need to be authenticated (billing
It's all a matter of meshing and choosing
It's about business, not technology!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
What will further delay VoIP from entirely killing the PSTN, smong other things, are (1) The vendors (bad vendors!) are doing a Microsoft-like embrace-and-extend of SIP (the session initiation protocol used to set up a VoIP call) (2) Meeting regulations like CALEA (the law enforcement act that gives the government the power to tap the phones) (3) Truly connecting Voice Over IP "islands"... because how to you share IP addresses of phones and maintain privacy (like suppressing caller ID)... and the best savings come when you can remove the PSTN (public switched telephone network) entirely.
Re:VoIP that interesting? (Score:3, Interesting)
I just recently subscribed to Vonage (a VOIP provider in the USA). Having moved recently from a city in Canada to the USA, I knew my wife and kids would be calling home often, ramping up my phone bills. So, I ordered up my Cable modem, ordered my Vonage and 3 days later opened the box that FedEx dropped off at my place and
question regarding 411 and other services. (Score:2)
This all seems very nice and all, however are there companies out there that offer voip with the services you typically get with a land line. example being caller id call waiting, 911, 411 and any operator service ? This is a genuine question as I am looking into this in the long run for the company I work with.
Re:question regarding 411 and other services. (Score:5, Informative)
but do you have ENHANCED 911? (Score:2)
Re:but do you have ENHANCED 911? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:but do you have ENHANCED 911? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:question regarding 411 and other services. (Score:1)
Re:question regarding 411 and other services. (Score:2)
Looking at becoming a niche VOIP provider myself.. (Score:5, Interesting)
VOIP has a few problems and there are many environments where I think that conventional circuit-switched connections offer better value, but there are also times where it is completely indispensable.
However, the rise of VOIP will force, in many places, telecoms to cut costs and become more competitive. THis is extremely good. It will be hard on them because they are used to owning the lines and having monopoly power, and they are no longer a monopoly (they aren't in my county anyway due to the county-owned fiber network which allows a choice of telecom providers and hence lower costs and better choice).
Re:Looking at becoming a niche VOIP provider mysel (Score:2)
Re:Looking at becoming a niche VOIP provider mysel (Score:3, Informative)
Remember that your main latency comes from the fact that you are bouncing data over lightwaves between the earth and geosynchronous orbit (approx 1/8 light second away). This means that for the 4 hops, you get approx 1/2 second delay which is annoying as all get out, but is a fact of any geosynch
Re:Looking at becoming a niche VOIP provider mysel (Score:3, Informative)
You'll need about 100kbit/sec upstream for each line.
Re:Looking at becoming a niche VOIP provider mysel (Score:2)
You might want to supplement your satellite based option with Champion Communications [championco...ations.biz] which is a quick and easy way to make some money from selling VoIP service. It is an MLM but the people who started it are known to me (they are also in Greenville, SC) and they have absolutely sterling reputations. Google for "Leighton Cubbage", "CTG", and "iOnosphere".
The service is not the cheapest but the quality is very good because the parent company is a PSTN company that has used VoIP for carrying their own tra
Re:Looking at becoming a niche VOIP provider mysel (Score:2)
Go VoIP - nah. Our local telco is being _most_ unhelpful with VoIP, and continue to insist that ISDN is the way of the future. Riiiight.
For all the faults of the US telecomms system, at least you have some competition instead of a single private company (gov't owns 51 percent, but like to pretend they don't) that basically owns the system.
Re:Looking at becoming a niche VOIP provider mysel (Score:2)
Go VoIP - nah. Our local telco is being _most_ unhelpful with VoIP, and continue to insist that ISDN is the way of the future. Riiiight.
For business voice lines, ISDN is *really* nifty. It is actually my technology of choice in this area, but nobody offers BRI's anymore because there is no reason for such small scale ISDN setups. Here the only ISDN we can get is PRI for about 600 USD/month. We haven't decided yet, but we may be offering actually ISDN->VOIP bridging, as it may end up being less expe
Re:Looking at becoming a niche VOIP provider mysel (Score:2)
Telstra, unfortunately, talks about IDSN like it's the new hot thing, and prices it to match. Until very recently they were pushing BRI IDSN as an "ideal broadband solution". Sweet gems in their business PRI ISDN pricing include timed local calls with an initial c
Re:Looking at becoming a niche VOIP provider mysel (Score:2)
It looks like it'll be cheaper to get eighteen (!!) individual lines and use business-grade ADSL for 'net access rather than get PRI IDSN. Isn't that really rather lame?
Here I can get a PRI, 20 DID's, and 5mb/s internet for approx $620/mo plus taxes. Remember that you can have 23 voice conversations over ISDN (it uses basically a T1, with one DS0 for signalling).
Re:Looking at becoming a niche VOIP provider mysel (Score:2)
Back in the dot com boom, a T1 of Internet could fetch $1500 a month. You can pick it up for about $350-500 now.
Tell me what outfit in the U.S. is selling nailed up, fully dedicated, no bandwidth cap T1 lines for $350-500 per month. It is popular to quote numbers like $350-500, but all I've seen so far are those lines are capped at 10 GB per month or so. Full lines have been at about $1000-1500 per month ever since the dot com days, and have not trended down at all.
Going VoIP (Score:2)
Re:Going VoIP (Score:1)
Re:Going VoIP (Score:2)
Voip will be a flash in the pan. (Score:3, Interesting)
After all the internet is not a client server model, it's a peer to peer model. Meaning that when your computer is connected to the internet is as much as a part of the internet as any service provider.
That's why VoIP in it's current form: as a phone call over the internet will die. It's a fine replacement for POTS, but we are capable of so much more.
Full on video/audio connections are possible with the higher speed connections that DSL/Cable provides, also with the rise of WiFi networks in cities and such you will soon get the same connectivity on a hand-held.
My personal prediction is that Voip is a flash in the pan technology. A in between technology that will be replaced by something else within 10 years. POTS will outlast it, but only because of the needs of rural people, and that's were VoIP will end up being used, as a interface between the city people with easy access to wifi and rural communities with no such quick and cheap access.
Re:Voip will be a flash in the pan. (Score:3, Informative)
You are SOOOO wrong (Score:5, Interesting)
As far as disappearing to be replaced by something else, that's a problem too. An analysis of FCC and industry data will show you the lifetime on such telecom equipment is VERY long - in many cases longer than a decade. So it will last, if for no other reason than "something else" isn't that much better, so it doesn't cost justify.
The real key here is that POTS is in trouble. The number of lines is going down (due to wireless) and the corporations are in a rush to Voice over IP. Why? Becuase it's cheaper, and the amount of voice traffic is now dwarfed by the data traffic. Thus, you can carry the voice traffic on the data network and completely eliminate the voice network. You can even do it with high quality of service for the voice, and it works because it's such a small percentage of the total network traffic. Expect some big announcements over the next year.
Re:You are SOOOO wrong (Score:4, Insightful)
You don't need a provider to do deploy VOIP. The only essential thing that a provider is giving you is an interface into the POTS network. Once everyone is on the internet, you'll just be able to "phone greg@home.com" and a currently non-existent protocol will resolve that to whatever communication Greg has on hand, by talking only with Greg's own equipment, not that of any provider. The internet is Peer 2 Peer.
Sure, you will still be doing Voice over IP, but it won't be any kind of huge revenue generator for VOIP companies, and, as commercial entities, they will shrivel and die. But I wouldn't worry, they probably have a good ten to twenty years of good times before people figure that out.
Re: You are SOOOO wrong (Score:4, Insightful)
You have more faith than I do. Once we have a way to link the "islands" of Voice over IP that corporations and individuals are creating, I would expect Voice over IP to turn into a product, (think fax machine) rather than a service. Buy a Linksys device from your local electronics store and plug in. There will be NO revenue involved except for the "bit carrier", and that will be a race to the bottom between cable carriers and DSL providers. I would say that happens sooner rather than later. I think 10 years is generous.
Re: You are SOOOO wrong (Score:2)
Thanks for those who mentioned SIP. I've heard of it, but had no idea what it did.
Re:You are SOOOO wrong (Score:2, Informative)
Good thinking.
The protocol you envision has been around for a couple of years now, and it's called Session Initiation Protocol - SIP. It uses a URI like to find the party you are calling, and after it has served it's rendezvous function, the media is sent peer-
Re:You are SOOOO wrong (Score:2)
From this article: [computerworld.com.au]
A converged voice and data network may sound like a fabulous idea until you remember the last time a worm or denial of service attack brought your network to its knees. Do you really want the network and your phone system to go down together?
Re:Voip will be a flash in the pan. (Score:2, Insightful)
Bleh (Score:3, Interesting)
Not to be a shill... (Score:2)
Re:Not to be a shill... (Score:2)
Or, as a previous post suggested, teach your self to program. One way or another, its going to happen sooner or later.
Re:Not to be a shill... (Score:2)
Ignoring all that, I simply like the percieved security of knowing the code I run is sanely auditable. Skype has lots of hype, lemmings are running off cliffs en masse to u
Look.. (Score:2)
Re:Not to be a shill... (Score:2)
Question regarding DSL and VOIP (Score:2)
I've heard conflicting reports that you have to have a valid phone # for DSL to work. Is that true? If so, I'm not sure if VOIP's cost effective because I'd have to keep my telco connection and the associated phone bill on top of the VOIP fees.
Re:Question regarding DSL and VOIP (Score:1)
Re:Question regarding DSL and VOIP (Score:2, Funny)
Once you try thier VOIP service, you'll love it, too. :)
(No, I don't work for them, just a very satisfied customer).
Re:Question regarding DSL and VOIP (Score:2)
Re:Question regarding DSL and VOIP (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Question regarding DSL and VOIP (Score:4, Informative)
It depends what state you live in. What you are wanting is called "naked" or "dry" DSL. It is available in GA and NC but not SC (yet). I don't know about other states.
Still not for biz. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Still not for biz. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Still not for biz. (Score:1)
Re:Still not for biz. (Score:2, Insightful)
Conversely if I could convince Adelphia to install cable in my business I could grab cable for $60-$70 per month plus Vonage for about $30 and I've cut my bill in half. Too bad I can't actually get Adelphia to co
Big Business is already in. Small business; later (Score:3, Informative)
Small business will be delayed - for the reasons you mention. However, in another post [slashdot.org] I mention that I think you will see AT&T and some of the existing IXCs (inter exchange carriers, aka long distance carriers) enter into the VoIP market in a big way. Expect them to use that as a lever to displace the local carriers if they can. It will come, but it won't be the little guys who bring i
Re:Big Business is already in. Small business; lat (Score:2)
That's how we're set up, and it's WAY easier for IT to manage than a local POTS system. There's more too VoIP than cheap LD service...
Re:Still not for biz. (Score:1)
Quality is excellent. Internal people and customers alike couldn't care that they're IP phones - they ring, they dial, they work.
Latency and QOS are the two bugaboos, but if you've a healthy network, implementing VOIP shouldn't be a huge deal.
We pronounce it "Voyp" - rhyme the first part with 'boy'.
Packet8 rocks (Score:4, Informative)
VP also raised prices from $35 to $38 when Vonage dropped to $25! What price war?
I have had packet8 for a month. The unlimited service is $20. So far, quality is much better. More impressive is the good quality even with 12 KB/sec of p2p upstream on my cable modem.
Re:Packet8 rocks (Score:1)
I still have and use the service and it is almost worth $2
Re:Packet8 rocks (Score:3, Interesting)
That has not been my experience at all.
My first p8 call was to a friend to do a latency test. One person counts "1..2..3" and the other repeats the number as soon as they hear it. That gives the lead surprisingly good feedback on latency.
My sister uses Vonage and doesn't have this bandwidth problem, but she's in NY and I'm guessing there's a Vonage interface in NJ.
I should have mentioned that I am in southern Michigan. A fri
Buisness use its Golden (Score:1)
What I want to know about VOIP is... (Score:4, Funny)
Vojp? VeeOhhEyePee?
(Oh, and a gold star to whoever can tell me where this quote is from "I P Freeley". Want a hint? It is phone related.)
Re:What I want to know about VOIP is... (Score:2)
> What I want to know about VOIP is, how do you pronounce it?
Sounds like John Voight's last name, except P instead of T. Or like void, except P instead of D.
Although I read that some "purists" still pronounce the letters individually.
A new hire at the company I work at says "t-dot" is the new "hip" designation for Toronto, being some kind of bastardization of "TO" (tee ohh). Everyone polled so far thinks "t-dot" it's stupid.
Of course, t-dot is nicer than "big penis town"
.
Re:What I want to know about VOIP is... (Score:1)
"I.P. Freely" is from the Simpsons ol' chap.
It's a power thing. (Score:2, Informative)
Unmetered phone ... unmetered electric (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, we all know how that particular story ended up. But who would have imagined, back in the days of 40 cent per minute interstate calling, that someday telephone service would become so cheap that it wouldn't be worth metering? Unmetered telephone service? Now you're just crazy talking!
I suppose it's somewhat ironic (in an Alanis Morrisette fashion, not true irony) that it's really just people problems, not technology problems, that we have to solve in order to make these things come true.
Re:Unmetered phone ... unmetered electric (Score:2)
Re:Unmetered phone ... unmetered electric (Score:2)
That's all well and good but....... (Score:2, Interesting)
Stop uploading =). Or prioritize voice. (Score:2)
Prioritize the voice traffic, and it should get whatever upstream bandwidth it needs. This won't do much with the downstream traffic, but for most folks it isn't a problem.
wake me up (Score:1)
Re:wake me up (Score:2)
Different? (Score:1)
Re:Different? (Score:2)
Replace Voip with car and yahoo messanger with city transit and you have your answer.
Wifi + this + headset in an SD card? (Score:2)
However at some point you have replaced the whole palm pilot or phone but oh well.
Can you hear me now? (Score:3, Insightful)
I say good riddence.
You mean Wisip phones? (Score:2)
Since SIP phones seem to be pretty damn cool (open standards, I guess companies like Lingo [lingo.com] and Packet8 [packet8.com] use proprietary hardware which can spell limited choices and hardware lock-in) Wisip phones seem to be the way to go (it helps that they've got that tech-fetishist look going on too!).
Pulver Innovatoins [pulverinnovations.com]
Xiologix [xiologix.com]
An added bonus of using a SIP based service is
Re:Can you hear me now? (Score:2)
I imagine that with low enough power levels, it would be legal in today's legislative environement. Phones themselves may not be able to reduce power enough to comply, however.
Of course, adding WiFi t
Re:Can you hear me now? (Score:2)
Communication services in dense areas becomes communial and would be self upgrading and expanding as time went on. Now if they could get the whole "Lillypad Concept" for Wi
So, is VOIP being built on IP4 or IP6? (Score:2)
This seems like such a natural fit for IPv6, don't you think?
Re:Almost a year using our IP Phone (Score:2)