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Handhelds IT Hardware

NTT DoCoMo Debuts Credit Card Phone 123

Posted by samzenpus from the my-phone-is-maxed-out dept.
Scott S. writes "NTT DoCoMo Unveils its new phone allowing a simply wave to pay for items at the supermarket, rent movies, get airplane tickets and more. The i-mode FeliCa serves as a "mobile wallet" that detects weak electronic signals from a reader/writer and can be used when the phone is off. Credit card phones have been an idea in the past and leave it to the Japanese to make one."
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NTT DoCoMo Debuts Credit Card Phone More

NTT DoCoMo Debuts Credit Card Phone

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  • One FeliCa to access them all (Score:4, Interesting)

    by fembots ( 753724 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @08:11PM (#10718051) Homepage
    It seems almost inevitable that Japanese is going to have a Felica after Toyota's Celica [toyota.com] and Mitsubishi's Delica [mitsubishi-motors.co.jp] :) Where's Google when you need a Gelica (Girly Car)?

    The article mentioned "i-mode FeliCa will make your wallet more slim. It can be your cash, credit card, membership ID, and even your house key." Given that many people have mobile phones stolen/lost, or worse, broken in the most unexpected moment, is relying too heavily on one device too much a risk?

    I think it's equally annoying to have your cash stolen, house broken into, and not being able to enter your house (and you can't call for help without a mobile phone or cash for payphone!)

    --
    Play iCLOD Virtual City Explorer [iclod.com] [iclod.com] and win Half-Life 2

    • Re:One FeliCa to access them all (Score:4, Interesting)

      by kryonD ( 163018 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @09:23PM (#10718714) Homepage Journal
      I will freely admit to not having RTFA, but that's because I check out DoCoMo's site on a regular basis. There 506i series of phones had one model with fingerprint activiation and the next gen will likely follow that trend as DoCoMo has always done in the past. Having to finger the phone may seem like a minor annoyance, but for anyone who has frantically tried to make it through the crowds to the ticket machines when you realize your pass is your other pocket would consider this almost as eay as just reaching for your wallet with the JR pass in it. Add the ability to pay for items with the press of your finger and a single source of billing and you have a winner.

      I'm counting the days til I can return to Tokyo and replace my two year old 505i (which by the way, still puts 95% of the current US phones to shame)
      • I have the new Foma 900iT, and it has the biometric finger print scanner. It works great most of the time, but is sometimes really cantankerous about the fingerprint match-up. Also, the biometric feature is only useful if the security software gives you a decent set of options. Despite umpteen different choices, the only reliable way to lock people out of my phone's functions is to do a full lock.

        On the bright side, this phone is designed to download system software updates from Docomo, so perhaps I can
    • Brilliant! Now all they need to add is a refrigerator, a paper towel holder, a dog kennel, and a pipe rack. Or they could come in pairs, and we could wear them as shoes when we aren't snapping pictures, playing games, waving our money away, or even occasionally talking to people.

      Does Japanese have no word for "granularity"?

      (I suppose that, for the American market, they could make a model that also has a gun in it to help us ward off theft. Oh, and a duct-tape dispenser for when it gets broken. :-)

  • Why attached to a phone? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @08:11PM (#10718058)
    I use ExxonMobil's Speedpass from time to time, but I don't quite see why the same thing needs to be attached into a cell phone. Isn't an RFID chip on a keychain enough to do the job?

    • Re:Why attached to a phone? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by gl4ss ( 559668 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @08:16PM (#10718113) Homepage Journal
      well.. the idea is that it cuts down on the seperate things you have to carry..

      with eventually you having to carry just one thing(preferably that has the data portions somewhere backed up automagically where they're easily replaceable securely for you if you lose the thing).
      • The practice of combining all these things (credit cards, identification, gas card, etc) into one device is a little scary to me. I mean, haven't you ever heard the phrase "don't put all of your eggs ni one basket?" I prefer to keep my important information somewhat dispersed so that an attacker cannot get all of my information in one fell swoop. I'll keep my cards nicely seperated when I can. nice idea, though, I guess.
        • that's why the mention of magic.

          because it would have some kind of magic way to figure out if it were really you with the phone or not, and the data/keys/and other should be retrievable by some magical means into your new device.

          now if you invent that magic, so that it'll work perfectly, you'll be a very rich man if you play your cards right.
    • >I don't quite see why the same thing needs to be attached into a cell phone. You can deposit money in the cellphone on line. That's the point.
    • The phone interface allows the user to read their balance. It also lets NTT turn off credit as soon as the phone is reported lost or stolen.

  • Progression (Score:2, Informative)

    by steveargonman ( 183377 )
    Yes, of course leave it to the Japaneese. They're a progressive society.

  • Time to.. (Score:3, Funny)

    by pmazer ( 813537 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @08:15PM (#10718094)
    ...go get my tin foil hat ironed.

  • Condoms etc. (Score:5, Funny)

    by EmbeddedJanitor ( 597831 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @08:17PM (#10718127)
    When I was younger and unmarried I'd carry a condom in my wallet. You never know!

    Now I carry a spare CompactFlash and my driving and fishing licenses.

    Unless the cellphone has a handy place to put these things I can't see it replacing a wallet any time soon.

  • Walking through the supermarket line (Score:4, Funny)

    by Faustust ( 819471 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @08:18PM (#10718136) Homepage Journal

    I can't wait til I'm leaving a grocery store without buying anything, I walk through the checkout line to get out, and I end up buying someone else's groceries for them without knowing it.

    *thinks* wait a minute...I might be the one getting free groceries.

    /seconds motion to introduce this

  • more like... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @08:20PM (#10718158)
    NTT DoCoMo DeBuTs cRedIt CaRd pHoNe

  • "a simply wave" (Score:3, Funny)

    by momerath2003 ( 606823 ) * on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @08:21PM (#10718162) Journal
    allowing a simply wave to pay

    Wha...? Did slashdot just turn into engrish.com [engrish.com]?
    • No, the point is that now it's really easy to pay for that Simply Red concert ticket. That's what they say, man!

  • Passive reading? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Mad-Mage1 ( 235582 ) <infosecguy.mb@gm[ ].com ['ail' in gap]> on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @08:22PM (#10718171) Homepage
    I always wondered, is it possible to read these passively at some other location (i.e. a small reader attached near the lock on an apartment complex?) and bill later? Perhaps storing the tag's info in flash for eventual DL?

  • Theft without needing to break into your house? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by UnapprovedThought ( 814205 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @08:23PM (#10718178) Journal

    Does this mean that unauthorized charges can be made without even being able to turn off the capability?

    If so, then drive-by theft suddenly becomes possible. Gives war-driving a whole new meaning.

    • security, self control, ... (Score:4, Funny)

      by n3k5 ( 606163 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @08:31PM (#10718248) Journal
      Article:
      ... allowing a simply wave to pay for ...

      UnapprovedThought:
      Does this mean that unauthorized charges can be made ...

      Either way, you can wave goodbye to your money.
    • Somebody just has to steal your phone. They don't even need your cc# or anything. Just about the most delicious thing thieves have ever heard of.

      • An AC elsewhere in this discussion has mentioned that there is a yes/no button to approve the charges; it isn't just waving that is necessary (whew, what a relief). It seems the article was being a bit too optimistic about the convenience aspect. Maybe it was just marketing-spin.

        But, I agree that if the phone is stolen all bets are off. Of course the thief will have no compunction about pressing the yes button all over town. So it looks like the phone needs to have a PIN entry feature as well.

  • Fraud? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by yohus ( 681482 )
    Am I the only one who sees this as a boon to thieves?

    1. Steal unsuspecting person's phone
    2. Make lots of purchases quickly
    3. Ditch phone and abscond with goods
    4. Achieve eternal contentment

  • "a simple wave"?!? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by El ( 94934 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @08:29PM (#10718225)
    Just remember NOT to wave at those hookers you see standing on the street corner...


    But seriously, shouldn't a monetary transaction require a signature and/or a passcode, not just a gesture? How close does this have to be to the reader in order to bill my account? It would appear that there would be tremendous potential for ringing up unintentional charges when using a remote reader for payment.

    • Re:"a simple wave"?!? (Score:4, Informative)

      by DogDude ( 805747 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @08:45PM (#10718383)
      But seriously, shouldn't a monetary transaction require a signature and/or a passcode, not just a gesture?

      I'm sorry to break it to you, but if you think that traditional credit cards are much more secure, you're kidding yourself. Signatures are pretty useless, since 1. The merchant banks don't require us (businesses that accept credit cards) to check them against any other verified signature 2. A signature is easy to forge, especially when retail workers aren't handwriting experts 3. Merchant banks don't require us to do anything with the signed receipts once we have them. Our merchant bank requires, barring a real, physical card, to check the billing zip code, but even this information should be pretty easy to get. The only protection that credit cards have is the right to dispute charges. But since, these will also be credit cards, the same will apply. Therefore, these new gizmos will be about as secure as existing credit cards: they won't be.

  • Pretty Old news (Score:4, Informative)

    by I_am_jsking ( 723015 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @08:30PM (#10718244)

    I live in Japan and these phones have been out for atleast 5 months. That said, I use one and it's really handy. Riding the trains is very nice since I don't have to wait in line to buy tickets any more. Untill the tech. is adopted in more convenience stores outside of the train stations though, I'll still need my change purse.

    As we all know, the japanese love to use cash anyway, so I feel like a tech like this stands a better chance at becomming really really popular in the US or Europe, where credit cards are more commonly accepted. Pretty frequent to have busniess associates of mine get into jams at nice resturants because they don't have enough cash.

    jsking

    • As someone who uses this, could you perhaps enlighten the rest of us on the security issues related to it? What prevents someone from simply waving a reader at you and ringing up a massive bill without you even realizing it?

      • Re:Pretty Old news (Score:5, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @09:28PM (#10718759)
        I'll answer this.

        If you want to become a FeLiCa-enabled vendor, you must lease your reader directly from DoCoMo. All charges are stamped with a vendor-ID and the reader serial#. In order to get both items of information, a hacker would have to steal the reader from a store, crack it open to get the serial#, and replace the reader without causing any damage.

        If the reader is missing, the vendor is required by contract (strict!) to contact DoCoMo immediately and have that reader decomissioned. The vendor is then liable for the cost of replacing the missing reader, discouraging them from lax physical security in the first place. If the reader is returned to the store in damaged condition such that the tamper-proof seal is broken (which self-reports to DoCoMo), then the machine is decomissioned and all transactions using that serial# are investigated.

        Essentially, you would have to be a DoCoMo employee to pull off something like this successfully.

        Also, the charge always requires a button-press acceptance on the user's part to acknowledge the transaction. If someone were to just wave the reader at your phone, it wouldn't do anything unless you accept the charge (in 30 seconds or so before the transaction times out).

      • Re:Pretty Old news (Score:1, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        In addition to what I posted above.

        If someone steals your phone, you are faced with the same situation as if someone were to steal your credit card. You'd be liable for some charges, not others. And it would be up to you to have your FeLiCa account blocked immediately.

        In response to this issue, Fujitsu (the only maker of FeLiCa phones) is looking into a biometric reader instead of the 'accept transaction' button mentioned above.

        • "You'd be liable for some charges, not others"

          That's only if you can report the theft before the thief gains entry to your home... Since you have no phone, it's possible that this might take you longer to report it. You may not even be aware that your phone has been stolen for a while. Then, if you deactivate your phone account, how do you enter your own home when you get back?

          "[they are] looking into a biometric reader instead"

          They can look into it all they want but biometrics aren't a complete sol

    • Yeah, I thought this was kinda strange, because hardly anyone in Japan uses debit/credit cards for payments anyway. It's pretty much impossible most places as well, though there's a commercial running on TV now saying you can use Visa at hospitals. Byouin de mo, uisa wo tukaemasu!
  • Give me a credit card *sized* phone, then i'll give you $500 for it.

    In the mean time, fuck off and let me enjoy my obsolete technology. At least it gets 18 days standby or 10 hours talk time with bluetooth.
    • there's a credit card-sized phone at dynamism.com. I'm on dial-up at the moment, otherwise I'd find the link for you. it needs a headset as it lacks a built-in speaker or mic.
    • Motorola Razr V3 is roughly credit card sized, though obviously not in thickness (9.8cm by 5.3cm, compared to a standard card at 8.6 x 5.4 cm).

    • Hmm, it didn't take long for a standard "Bah! Features suck! Everything should be good for one thing and one thing only!" reply to turn up.

      My current futurephone has a nice big 16-bit color display, another, smaller, 16-bit color display on the back, a camera, can do email, surf the web, play 48-voice polyphonic ringtones, and a whole ton of other stuff that I haven't figured out yet. I think that its battery life suffers a bit for this--it only gets about two weeks of standby, and about six hours of ta

  • Lost Phone? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by ezberry ( 411384 )
    If your cell phone is your only phone, and you lose your cell phone, how do you report that you lost your credit card?
    (let's assume you don't have any friends and your work doesn't have any phones, either, OK?)
    • I have no friends and I am, sadly, unemployed... you know what I did? I cried! Simple as that. Nothing is more theraputic than balling your friggin' eyes out in the bathroom. NOTHING! Seriously, I dunno what I'd do... I'd probably cry.
    • Assuming that you would consider the option of travelling to a friend's house to report your stolen phone/card, why not travel a presumably shorter distance to a payphone? Your urban survival kit should always include some pocket change specifically for payphones and mass transit options, just in case.
    • I'd throw out that ridiculous assumption.

      --RJ

  • Great.. (Score:4, Funny)

    by StikyPad ( 445176 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @08:36PM (#10718301) Homepage
    As a result, a handset becomes a mobile tool for convenient new uses, serving as e-money, credit card, ticket, or even house or office key.

    Now when I lose my phone, it will be even more of a pain in the ass. Not to mention the increased likelyhood of someone just grabbing your phone right out of your hand while you're talking on it. And using it as a house key!?!? Now I've got to buy TWO phones so I can throw one under the doormat? It'll be hard to explain to my friends to disregard the lump under the mat, while at the same time being careful not to step on it. (Just kidding, I have no friends).

    The press release doesn't mention anything about security either.. At least my credit card has a signature on the back for the cashiers to pretend to examine.
    • "At least my credit card has a signature on the back for the cashiers to pretend to examine."

      Like they even do this anymore these days... the signature strip on the back of my card has worn out the point where "VOID" is rather easily visible now.

      Only once in the past three months was I even asked for additional ID since my signature wasn't readable... once.

      Nobody has ever commented on the fact that my card now says VOID across the back where the signature strip used to be/still partially is.

      Heck I bet n
      • I don't remember the last time I handed my card to someone. Everywhere I go I swipe the card myself. Sometimes credit, sometimes debit, but it never leaves my hand. Or, I just buy online, which ends up not requiring any proof except for the numbers ON THE CARD. Credit cards have no security at all.
        • About 50% of the time I will have someone take my card, scan it, and just hand it back... the other 50% of the time I do it myself and they never even see the signature line.

          All-in-All, we sure do need better security on our monies, especially as we move towards a cashless society.

  • Tin foil time (Score:2, Funny)

    by jedkiwi ( 825683 )
    I think I would be inclined to wrap one of these phones in Tin Foil when not in use, as I wouldn't want to be paying for someone's $200 grocery bill...

  • As I said yesterday... (Score:3)

    by BHearsum ( 325814 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @08:43PM (#10718368) Homepage
    Can I get a phone that is just a phone please? Or a phone that excels in phone-based things? I've yet to see a cell phone that lets me block numbers at the phone level, rather than PAYING to have a number blocked with the service provider. No I don't want a crappy digital camera on my phone. No I don't want a crappy music player on my phone. No I don't want a crappy web browser on my phone. I don't want a crappy credit card on my phone. I WANT A PHONE THAT IS A PHONE. Jesus christ.

    • Can I get a phone that is just a phone please? Or a phone that excels in phone-based things?

      Keep a lookout on eBay for the Ericsson r520m. Bluetooth, GPRS data modem, simple black and white screen, simple phone beeps, no camera, no MP3, (unless you get an attachment) no frills. It was popular in Europe amongst business people looking for a no-nonsense phone.

      This was the last phone Ericsson made in Sweden and the last phone before the Sony/Ericsson merger.

      You never see them locked to a carrier because t
    • I suggest you don't move to east asia. People here actually find these things convenient and fun.

      Many people carry an MP3 player on the subway, and to carry one less device and integrate the headphones into your phone's hands free system is really convenient.

      Likewise always having a camera to take pictures of something fun or unexpected is great, and while the quality isn't as good as my dedicated digital camera, it's too heavy to carry it everywhere I go.

      Here in Korea the regular cell phone is a solved

  • Wha? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by faqmaster ( 172770 ) <jones.tm@NOSPAM.gmail.com> on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @08:50PM (#10718428) Homepage Journal
    Am I the only one who thought, "Credit card phone? Sounds too small."

  • Great idea, but... (Score:2, Informative)

    by nolsen ( 518298 )
    The funny thing about Japan is you CAN'T use a credit card to buy groceries, rent videos, eat at a lot of restaurants, etc... They are very much a cash-based and cash-loving society.

    The first time I tried to buy groceries in Japan with a CC, the woman looked at my like I was crazy, called her supervisor, who looked at me like I was crazy and called his supervisor, who looked at me like was crazy and called his supervisor, who... Well, if you've lived in Japan you know how their management and beauraucracy

    • Not accepting credit cards is a good thing. Do you know how much debt the average American is in because it is so easy to spend money that they don't have? The only downsides to cash are that it can easily be stolen and not recovered, and you can't spend more than you are holding.

      • Re:Great idea, but... (Score:2, Informative)

        by fbjon ( 692006 )
        "Do you know how much debt the average American is in"

        2900$ [gallup.com]
      • A credit card gets stolen you call your CC comopany and no charges are yoru fault. Cash gets stolen you call teh cops and they may just actually write down your name.
      • I'd rather have people in debt if the alternative is them going hungry.

        --RJ
      • Yep, but even the concept of debit cards is pretty well unknown here in Japan.

        And what about using ATM cards instores?

        I've been using my regular cash card at pretty well every store that I go to in New Zealand for many years now, with no hassles. Everything from a bar to a supermarket to a car dealership. This idea is only just starting to catch on in Japan.

  • Use Dexit in Toronto (Score:3, Interesting)

    by iso ( 87585 ) <.slash. .at. .warpzero.info.> on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @08:54PM (#10718459) Homepage
    In Toronto we have Dexit [dexit.com] tags (like an Esso Speedpass) that can be used for small purchase. It's not often seen outside of the downtown core, but hopefully they will be adopted in more places soon.

    Telus Mobility also has a Dexit tag that attaches to your cellphone [dexit.com] so it acts something like the one described in the article. It's not built into the phone, but rather just a different style Dexit tag that attaches to the phone.

    Anyhow, they're quite useful for small ($50) day-to-day purchases.

  • Old news (Score:3, Informative)

    by rbrome ( 175029 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @09:05PM (#10718554) Homepage
    This is old news in Japan. It was announced back in June:

    http://www.phonescoop.com/news/item.php?n=888 [phonescoop.com]

    But for those of us in the west, there's news, too, such as Nokia yesterday announcing a faceplate accessory that adds this feature to one of their phones:

    http://www.phonescoop.com/news/item.php?n=994 [phonescoop.com]

    And Motorola recently announcing a U.S. trial of this technology together with MasterCard:

    http://www.phonescoop.com/news/item.php?n=973 [phonescoop.com]

    Don't confuse this new NFC-based technology with passive technology like the gas-station keychain things, or touch-based transit passes, campus ID cards, etc. This is different, because it's active and dyanamic - it's integrated with the phone.

    That means it can serve multiple purposes. It can be your cash, credit card, debit card, bus pass, driver's license, and work ID all in one. Then you can download a Java app to the phone that will let it replace your grocery dicount card, too. It really can replace your whole wallet - not just a credit card. That's what's so cool about NFC systems like FeliCa.

  • I don't like the sounds of this (Score:4, Interesting)

    by The Wing Lover ( 106357 ) <awh@awh.org> on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @09:07PM (#10718575) Homepage
    Just yesterday I found someone's phone on the train approaching Tokyo Station; they'd got off at Ginza leaving it there. Sitting right beside the phone was the person's train ticket. This person wouldn't have even been able to exit the ticket gates at Ginza to get to where the pay phone was so he could call Lost and Found.

    The thing is, with actual paper money and credit cards and everything else, you're not likely to have your wallet out of your pants during the train ride, but around here a good 25% of the people on the train have their cel phones out doing text messaging or playing video games during the train ride.

    It seems like there'll be a greater chance for people to lose their cel phones than their wallets, and now that we're cramming everything under the sun into cel phones, it'll just be more devistating to lose one.

  • it's a debit card (Score:3, Informative)

    by germano ( 7833 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @09:18PM (#10718674)
    We have these in Japan for a while, and if it's the same, it's a debit card. You can use your phone to transfer money from your credit card (!) to your phone or you can use ATMs to put money in it.
    My phone is capable of that, but I never used. Some convenience stores, video rentals and even Coca-Cola vending machines are planned to be payable using Felica mainly next year, but I still don't see many shops around me where I can use that.
  • AFAIK, prototypes of these have been out for a while. As of this summer, my roommate from Japan had one, which he used in Japan to pay at certain places. Had anybody else seen these before now?

    It may not have been a DoCoMo phone, but with DoCoMo backing this service it's about to get really popular really quick...
  • But for some reason the fact that Japan is introducing the same technology keeps coming up in the news over the last few months.

    The electronic wallet system is called Moneta and my phone has a slot for a smart card (same size as a GSM SIM card) issued by a bank. It communicates contactlessly by waving it over a receiver at some ATMs, restaurants etc. You can also use it instead of a regular contactless smartcard for the subway/bus etc.

    The phone has a set of menus which communicate with the smart card to

  • The i-mode FeliCa serves as a "mobile wallet" that detects weak electronic signals from a reader/writer and can be used when the phone is off. I wish I could find the original article I read about this technology some months back. The main concern of the technology's proponents at the time of writing was this: What if someone obtained a reader/writer device and modified it to increase the signal strength? Then, this person would theoretically be able to rob an entire subway platform full of people

  • say "Hi, I am here!" Will somebody get his or her bill payed?
  • No I havent RTFA
    But can someone explain to me how you couldn't do the exact same thing by gluing an RFID tag on the back of some part of the phone like the battery cover or something.
  • The promise of this "creditphone" tech is not in "waving" it to buy things. It's that the phone has a CPU, memory, network, and GUI. That means I can give a random password for each transaction, keep a log, back up my records for comparing to my bills, and get trustworthy invoices that I can "OK" or "Cancel". All as simple as just "waving" the phone (and tapping "OK" or "Cancel"). Waving is too little effort to be secure. The rest of the features are the killer app: my phone as my universal remote to the ph
  • now the guy who steals my phone can fly to australia with it on my nickel!
  • What's this [nokia.com] then?
  • There is alreday possible to pay for parking (and other things) using phone here in Iceland. Just phone one number, and your parking is paid for. No need for special phone.
    GSM is your friend.
  • If this usues some type of RFID chip, wouldn't it be possible for someone to create a portable reader? A person could then stroll through the mall gathering "credit card numbers" (or whatever), and then use the data for purchases. I'm sure the data muse be encrypted, but how long before it is cracked? I am not claiming the credit cards are secure, but at least no one can see through your wallet, and gather the information as you are walking by. We have seen the portable credit card readers that thiefs u
  • The Octopus Card [wikipedia.org] system has been implemented in Hong Kong for a few years. It's an alternative to micropayment (cash and change). I don't know much about the Japanese system, but comparing it for credit card to quite a jump.

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