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Bug The Internet

The Virus Squad 175

dncsky1530 writes "Sydney Morning Herald - The Virus Squad - 'A new species has been discovered. So new, it's still unnamed, but researchers are racing to tag it - before it spreads around the world. For the next 10 to 30 minutes, the computer virus or worm is dissected, analysed and identified... "On the day we detected MyDoom, we did another 18 viruses," says Paul Ducklin, Sophos's head of technology for the Asia-Pacific. "There are about 800 new viruses a month. And the unglamorous bit of our work is often the other 798."'"
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The Virus Squad

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  • I wonder (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ATAMAH ( 578546 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @08:49AM (#8422151)
    How many staff they have. And how well are they doing next to the big boys a-la Symantec ?
    • Re:I wonder (Score:5, Insightful)

      by prat393 ( 757559 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @08:56AM (#8422171)
      Well, I have to wonder how well the whole antivirus industry is handling the problem; why release virus signatures instead of just changing the entire underlying security system in the operating system? It's things like viruses that make SELinux seem like a very good idea to me.
      • Re:I wonder (Score:5, Insightful)

        by BiggerIsBetter ( 682164 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @08:58AM (#8422178)
        It's things like SELinux that make the status quo seem like a very good idea to the antivirus industry.
        • Re:I wonder (Score:3, Interesting)

          by prat393 ( 757559 )
          Also very true. The antivirus companies themselves aren't interested in fixing everything wrong with computer security; what new false dichotomy do they come up with once "pay us for a subscription or your computer becomes a slave to every halfway-savvy hacker out there"?
          • Re:I wonder (Score:5, Informative)

            by aheath ( 628369 ) <adam@heath.comcast@net> on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:23AM (#8422248)
            I remember the days when anti-viral software was freeware or shareware. The anti-virus industry will have to adapt when Microsoft includes free anti-virus technology in Windows XP service pack 2. Assuming of course that the XP SP2 anti-virus software is robust and fully featured. Perhaps some of the anti-viral software companies will have to evolve from providing software to providing security conulting.

            Some security companies do give back to the community. GRISOFT [grisoft.com] offers a free version of AVG Anti-Virus 6.0 [grisoft.com] for single home users. Zone Labs [zonelabs.com] offers a free version of the Zone Alarm [zonelabs.com] firewall.

            Do you know of any other companies that offer free anti-viral or firewall software?

            • Re:I wonder (Score:5, Informative)

              by merlin65537 ( 721810 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:51AM (#8422337) Homepage
              There is AntiVir [antivir.de] which provides its software free for personal users, however it's in German only. I've used it on my Win2k system for a few years now. As far as I know it doesn't integrate with any e-mail-clients, but it recognized viruses in attachments as soon as I saved them to disk.
            • Re:I wonder (Score:5, Informative)

              by Fex303 ( 557896 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:59AM (#8422366)
              Avast! Antivirus [avast.com] is free for home users. I've been using it for a while now and it's successfully picked up the few viri that have tried to visit my inbox. I've installed it on few machines (parents/friends computers) and I've had no probs so far.

              It's got auto-updates, Outlook add-on module, etc. All good. They want some info in lieu of registration, but it's non-spammy/invasive

              You can download it from here [avast.com] if you're so inclined.

              Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with Avast, beyond being a quite satisfied user of their software.

              • Re:I wonder (Score:3, Informative)

                FreeAV [freeav.com] (AntiVir) is another one. Wasn't Avast! one of Microsoft's takeovers? Free for home users makes sense if it's going to be included in a Service Pack later. I don't suppose they still have a Linux version? I think a lot of companies will have to move more into the Linux/xBSD server arena with their products...
            • Re:I wonder (Score:3, Insightful)

              by AbbyNormal ( 216235 )
              I used to love AVG's offering and had it installed everywhere...until I upgraded to Win2k. They didn't support Win2k, because it was considered a "business" product. I was a home user, using a "business" prodcut...thought it was a little silly.
              • Re:I wonder (Score:2, Interesting)

                This guy is not insightful,

                AVG is handling the antivirus for my entire company - but before it was purchased, I needed to test it and ensure it would fit our needs. I used the free version in the testing of a 98, 2k, and xp machine with zero problems.

                After 3 months I felt confident enough to make it comapny policy. I purchased the server versions for my windows servers at the time and the client for everyone else. To this date, I have had one infected user and it was because a remote user in Singapore h
                • Neither is your comment "Insightful". If you actually read the post, is said "USED" to use it on all my machines.
            • Re:I wonder (Score:2, Interesting)

              by poweroff ( 646851 )

              IIRC several recent worms have left backdoors on the victim computers.

              Does anyone know where a person could get accurate information requied to say, identify infected machines on a network with nmap or somehting similar? The published information from the AV vendors seems a littly "fluffy" in this respect, they would obviously rather sell me something.

              I'm in a school setting and am not the Admin so I don't have full control our computers, thought I am trusted and given liberal leeway. I would like to

              • Re:I wonder (Score:3, Informative)

                by Anonymous Coward
                A completely passive method (will not piss off local admins) is to run port monitoring software on your PC and watch port 3127; Any machine trying to connect to port 3127 is likely to be a Mydoom infected machine. Telnetting to port 3127 on one of these machines will get a login prompt, which indicates an infected zombie monitoring that port for commands. I ran portsentry on a Linux box (had to edit the config file to watch 3127) and within a couple of hours found three infected machines on our local netw
            • Re:I wonder (Score:5, Informative)

              by jaavaaguru ( 261551 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @01:24PM (#8423482) Homepage
              F-Prot [f-prot.com] antivirus is available for free for home users, and runs on Linux, Windows, BSD, DOS and Solaris. For the Unix-based systems, there is a nice GUI front end called xfprot [tiscali.it].

              Smoothwall [sourceforge.net] is a "best-of-breed Internet firewall/router, designed to run on commodity hardware, and to give an easy-to-use administration interface to those using it. Built using open source and Free software, it's distributed under the GNU Public License".
      • Re:I wonder (Score:5, Interesting)

        by aheath ( 628369 ) <adam@heath.comcast@net> on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:11AM (#8422218)
        I've also wondered about this. I suspect it is because it is extremely difficult to change an operating system that is designed with permissive security instead of restrictive security. In Mac OS 1.0 to 9.2, MS-DOS 1.0 to 6.22, and Windows 1.0 to XP anything that is not explicitly forbidden is allowed. Apple addressed operating system security by using a UNIX base to create Mac OS X. I suspect Microsoft will change from a permissive security model to a restrictive security model in Longhorn.

        I have been working as a consultant for small office and home office users since being laid of from Intel in 2002. The view from the small office and home office is very different from the view from within the IT industry. I've been working to educate my clients on the importance of regular backups, anti-viral protection and firewall protection. I spent the last two weekends removing viruses from computers that were on cable modem connections with no ant-viral software installed and no firewall installed.

        I am starting to think that I need to help my clients to protect their data and make their systems hard targets. I'd like to think that the virus problem will be addressed by operating system changes. However, the reality in the small office and home office is that operating system upgrades are almost always tied to the purchase of a new computer. Third party security products will continue to be important as long as users stick with what works for them today without worrying about what might be available tomorrow.

        • Re:I wonder (Score:5, Insightful)

          by prat393 ( 757559 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:19AM (#8422243)

          But how often do you run across a computer you have to service with expired virus subscriptions? It seems to happen to me quite a bit. I suppose M$'s virus scanner mentioned earlier on /. might help, but that reeks even more of conspiracy than the current "protection money" setup does.

          Rather than bundling a questionably legal virus scanner into their next service pack, Microsoft should perhaps add a tool that helps to lock down permissions on NTFS volumes, creates unpriveleged accounts for users and various services, etc. Even with the multitude of security holes, Windows can be made a lot harder to mess with, if you put a little work into. The key here is privelege seperation.

          • Re:I wonder (Score:3, Insightful)

            by tiger99 ( 725715 )
            Yes, AFAIK most computer users are running with expired antivirus subscriptions. Isn't it sad that people behave the way they do?

            Your other suggestions are sound, as far as they go, but unfortunately most people will deliberately run with administrator privilege if they can, and there is still the fundamental problem that the OS does not run if system files are write protected. OK they can be protected from regular users, and it helps, but is not sufficient. But, I think you are saying that it should defaul

            • Yes, AFAIK most computer users are running with expired antivirus subscriptions. Isn't it sad that people behave the way they do?

              Uh, if I just dropped $1000 on a new computer, I get rather pissed off at the suggestion that within a few months I need to start paying some not-insignificant amount of money a month just so the damned thing won't catch a virus and die.

              Funny, I don't recall having to subscribe to a freakin' virus protection scheme with my Linux box.

      • ... why release virus signatures instead of just changing the entire underlying security system in the operating system?

        Fixing the problem instead of just treating the symptoms would be commercial suicide - why do you think drug companies spend so much money marketing "cold and flu" tablets instead of producing effective vaccines?
      • Re:I wonder (Score:3, Interesting)

        by drsmithy ( 35869 )
        Well, I have to wonder how well the whole antivirus industry is handling the problem; why release virus signatures instead of just changing the entire underlying security system in the operating system?

        Because it's basically impossible for the OS to tell the difference between the user deliberately performing $TYPICAL_VIRUS_ACTIVITY and a virus doing it ?

    • Re:I wonder (Score:3, Informative)

      by tiger99 ( 725715 )
      Don't judge their performance against Symantec. The latter did not do very well when the attacks on SCO and the Monopoly were propagated, and their products fail to protect against some quite old virii.

      I am yet to be convinced that there is any integrity or sense of morality in the anti-virus industry. The big boys such as Symantec and McAFraud have lost the plot, they are led by marketing men, and their products are distinctly third-rate. Their support departments also lie. As for Panda, well if you want t

  • by tgd ( 2822 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @08:55AM (#8422167)
    Maybe a lot of /. readers are too young to remember real viruses, or to have played around/collected them, but its been a decade since a real infectuous virus has gone around.

    If it can't infect any arbitrary EXE file, its not a virus, its a trojan or a worm, depending on wether or not its a moronic user or a security hole that allows it to enter the system.

    • by ATAMAH ( 578546 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:01AM (#8422188)
      >> ... its been a decade since a real infectuous >>virus has gone around. No, it's actually hasn't been that long. http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc /data/cih.html
    • by sheriff_p ( 138609 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:02AM (#8422189)
      Actually, common industry usage says that worm is a subset of virus. If you want to use your own terminology, fine, just don't inflict it on others :-)

      +Pete
    • by Jonathan ( 5011 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:05AM (#8422196) Homepage
      If it can't infect any arbitrary EXE file, its not a virus, its a trojan or a worm, depending on wether or not its a moronic user or a security hole that allows it to enter the system.

      I agree trojans aren't viruses, but worms are exactly the same thing as EXE viruses except at a bigger scale -- instead of merely infecting EXEs on one system, it infects systems on a network.
      • by theCoder ( 23772 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @03:25PM (#8424133) Homepage Journal
        Who modded this up as *insightful*? Translate this to biology: "parasites are exactly the same thing as biological viruses except at a bigger scale -- instead of merely infecting cells in one body, it (sic) infects bodies in a group (or city/colonly/ecosystem, etc)".

        Worms and viruses are both forms of malware, but they are not the same! They may have similar qualities, but they are not "exactly the same". Here's the critical difference -- a virus is not executable by itself. It is just some executable code that knows how to spread itself by infecting other executables (or in some cases, documents that contain executable code, like Word macro viruses). This is analogous to the biological world, where biological viruses are not full (as in independent) life forms (as I understand at least), but just a small amount of DNA in a container cell that knows how to infect a cell and replicate itself. A worm, like a parasite, is a distinct executable (organism) that just happens to need a host in order to run and spread. They are both bad, but they are distictly different.

        And the original poster is right -- there hasn't been a large scale outbreak of a real virus in quite some time (probably a combination of malware authors getting lazy, virus scanners getting better, and viruses being more difficult to transmit over the Internet).
        • First of all, as a biologist, I would have to classify biological viruses as parasites, although certainly not all biological parasites are biological viruses.

          But that's not really the point -- an e-mail worm can't spread by itself -- you need to get the e-mail and open it up and run the attachment (or have a brain-dead mail client that does this automatically). How is this any more "independent" than a computer virus that is only active when you run the infected program?
          • Interesting point about viruses being a type of parasite. I'm not a biologist myself (any more than high school Biology), but I can see why you would say that. I was referring to larger, multi-celled parasites in my example.

            However, you didn't take issue with my assertion that a biological virus is barely alive, and it essentially a bunch of specific DNA in a container. This is much like a computer virus and the biggest distinction between a virus and a worm (though at some point, this analogy becomes s
    • by interiot ( 50685 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:06AM (#8422201) Homepage
      The main reason we needed to have a copy of the virus in every executable was because we were running on DOS, which doesn't usually support multiple programs running at once. And a lot of networks were little clumps of networked file systems.

      Now that the most common OS's support multiple processes at once, and the internet/web/email is the main thing that connects everybody (and writable network file systems are mainly only found in the workplace), viruses have naturally changed.

    • by AndroidCat ( 229562 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:10AM (#8422213) Homepage
      Back then, at lot of them didn't infect executables, but went for boot sectors like STONED. And there are arbitrary EXE infectors around still, but they tend to get noticed and whacked faster than ones that don't.
    • by MrAngryForNoReason ( 711935 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:14AM (#8422229)

      Old schoool viruses tended to be designed to do damage. They infected as many files on the system as possible often destroying the file in the process.

      This approach is counterproductive if you want it to spread. Modern e-mail worms rarely show much evidence of their presence, if it seems like nothing is wrong then the user won't look for a problem. This leaves the worm free to mail itself to thousands of others and the system is added to the long list of compromised machines at the crackers disposal for DDoS attacks or spam relays.

      This is the same reason you don't get any 'wipe your hard drive on a certain date' viruses anymore. It isn't about doing damage it is about infecting as many machines as possible either for the 'fame' or to build up nets of infected drone machines for another purpose.

      I am surprised the article didn't mention the real reason MyDoom targeted SCO, it was a diversion. Spammers need new drone machines to send spam from but they don't want the backlash from being connected to a virus so they add in a diversion, the attack on SCO. This took the heat off the spammers and placed it firmly on the OSS community. And it worked, kind of, only recently has the spamming 'features' of MyDoom seen any press. For weeks all that was reported was how it was probably created by a OSS zealot lashing out at SCO.

    • An exe is a program that gets executed by your OS. A doc file is now a program that gets executed by Word. Only diff between a clean program and a doc, is a program is mostly used to contain functionality, whereas a doc has info.


      But believe me, I've seen docs compiled as exe's to provide their own reader back in the day.


      But anyway, what's the diff?

    • I've given up on teaching people the distinction. Fortunately, end-users also make no distinction between malware (adware and spyware) and virusses, and are baffled that McAfee, Norton and their ilk don't detect them (antivir will find some malware, such as dialers). I hope the AV vendors will keep at this long enough to go out of business altogether.
      • Fortunately, end-users also make no distinction between malware (adware and spyware) and virusses {Emphasis added]

        The all want to control your computer, and by controlling your computer control you.
        They are widespread enough that the virus known as "Norton Anti" comes preinstalled on new Dells.
    • I was wondering (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Felinoid ( 16872 )
      The guy was listing an awful lot of "virii" found per week.
      By the way virii also infect the boot sector and some only infect the boot sector.
      But it's all the same.
      A virii will attach itself (IE patch) existing software (usually any and all on your system).
      A trojen is a self contained infection and dose not spread.
      A worm hacks into the target.
      I suspect about 90% of the "virii" found are actually trojens. They are the single easiest peace of malicous code that can be created. They are the essence of all the o
  • by Melvin Daniels ( 757374 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:01AM (#8422187) Journal
    "There's still a big perception out there that only broadband users need one," Lee says. "Everyone needs a firewall, along with antivirus."

    This rings all too true. If forwarding ports for certain applications wasn't such a pain in the ass, I would say make ISPs require firewalls or find a way to have some sort of personal firewall for their connection that they can access from the internet and change the settings on. Just a thought.

    This would bring up other problems, but it'd at least stop a lot of problems with trojans and open relays.
    • by BiggerIsBetter ( 682164 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:08AM (#8422211)
      That would be fairly easy to set up. An ISP could provide a web interface to configure per user "pin holes". Default to blocking all traffic from the customer, and some traffic to the customer (smb traffic, for example), and let them enable things if they need to. Not hard to do at all, as long as arbitrary "thou shalt not use port X" policies aren't brought in along with it.
    • Hell no. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by nurb432 ( 527695 )
      My isp has NO business controlling my own hardware.

      The ONLY thing they should be able to do is shut me off totally.
      • Re:Hell no. (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Cylix ( 55374 ) * on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:25AM (#8422256) Homepage Journal
        Not true...

        Your ISP has every business sense to control your hardware, depending on what kind of customer you are.

        Road Runner, during the whole fiasco with some horrid worm I can't remember the name of. Started filtering at customer leased line routers, their own and their upstream provider to hold down the bandwidth consumption. They had red lined their bandwidth and it was effecting their entire customer base.

        I'm not saying filtering everything at any point is a good idea, but when it comes to critical situations they have every right to slow the progression of an attack.

        I used to get annoyed at Port 25 blocking, but after recent spam/virus hoopla has hit I'm rather glad some people are taking steps to curb the issue.
        • If they need to filer, it needs to be done on THEIR equipment. Not mine.

          I don't care what agreement, or policy they might have.. A lot of things go on that shouldn't be. People agree to things that are wrong all the time.

          They have NO right to mess with MY equipment. That is a privacy and security invasion. Period.

          They DO have the right to monitor, and if im broadcasting crap, to shut me off.. on their end.
    • by cerberusss ( 660701 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:26AM (#8422257) Journal
      >>Everyone needs a firewall, along with antivirus
      >This rings all too true

      That may be true for a Windows machine where controlling the number of open ports is difficult and where you have every piece of software calling home, but on my Linux laptop, I don't run a firewall. I just don't see the need. I've got ssh open and that's it. And X, from which I haven't heard anything since 4.0.

      • you sure thats all you have open? willing to share your IP address with us all to check?

        I find on linux you tend to have more need for a firewall. Linux will often be running RPC, and like you say X (and I know at least KDE) use ports too that should be firewalled.
          1. you sure thats all you have open? willing to share your IP address with us all to check?

            I find on linux you tend to have more need for a firewall. Linux will often be running RPC, and like you say X (and I know at least KDE) use ports too that should be firewalled.

          I have to agree with the person you're commenting to.

          Firewalls are not useful for an individual system if you don't have things running on ports that can be abused.

          Windows does make this very hard, while Linux it is trivial and by defaul

        • Interesting ports on (x.x.x.x):
          (The 1599 ports scanned but not shown below are in state: closed)
          Port State Service
          22/tcp open ssh
          6000/tcp open X11

          Nmap run completed -- 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 1 second
          I've shut all RPC stuff off. You don't need that unless you're running NFS, which I don't. So, what's the use? You want me to run a firewall for one port? Which is not vulnerable since 3 years?
  • Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:06AM (#8422200)
    Virus writers seem to be paying more and more attention to what makes people click - and that makes observers like Lee suspicious. "I'm sure these people are recruiting psychologists."

    How does that go?

    "I AM PR3PAr3D T0 0ff3R TH3 2um 0F tHR33 BaGz 0f Ch33zY P00fS 4 a 3l33T P2Ych0!og!st!!!"

    "While you clearly have abandonment issues, the practice has been hard up for money lately. Very well, I accept. But first, tell me about your mother."

    Look, it doesn't take a psychologist to explain that when you sit the average person in front of a computer, they become a mouse-clicking fool. No amount of emergency IT sessions with the staff explaining precautionary tactics involving attachments is going to change that, and if any psychologist recruitment is necessary it's to explain why the average person keeps clicking attachments to messages in obviously broken English.

    That's why blaming software vendors like Microsoft is stupid. Will four ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO RUN THIS warnings before allowing the execution of an attachment do any more than three?

    • Re:Huh? (Score:2, Funny)

      by RdsArts ( 667685 )
      Of course. It will slow down viruses by exactly one mouseclick.

      Sure, it doesn't sound like a lot, but think of it in volume...
    • That's why blaming software vendors like Microsoft is stupid. Will four ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO RUN THIS warnings before allowing the execution of an attachment do any more than three?

      No, I'd put the blame squarely on software vendors like Microsoft. Four ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO RUN THIS warnings won't do any good. OneNo amount of emergency IT sessions with the staff explaining precautionary tactics involving attachments is going to change that
      You must be doing something wrong. I've done one "emergency
    • Re:Huh? (Score:5, Informative)

      by jaavaaguru ( 261551 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @01:37PM (#8423536) Homepage
      If the average person in front of a computer had an office suite with VB scripting turned off by default (typing up your homework in Word doesn't require it anyway), and the OS only executed files that were saved to disk and needed the execute permission turned on explicitly (I think Windows using NTFS has this option, but it's always on by default), then the "mouse clicking fools" wouldn't be doing so much harm. This is something that only the OS vendor can fix.
  • Viruses don't die .. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MoonFog ( 586818 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:08AM (#8422210)
    Old viruses don't die, it seems, they just run out of potential targets as software choices change and security holes are patched.
    "You might think that there are some that will almost certainly never be seen again but it is surprising ... we still occasionally see viruses from 1995," Ducklin says.


    There's a reason enough to be on your toes and patch your new install as soon as possible.
    • by TeddyR ( 4176 )
      For situations where within 15 mins of powering up a machine, its infected....

      I wish that MS would make the service packs/updates in such a way that it would be

      1- latest service pack
      2- latest critical OS security patches
      3- latest IE critical security patches

      so that on a new install, all I would need to do is get a CD (burn one even) that contains the above three files.

      Make the three files availible from a single location. Update #2 and #3 as soon as a new individual patch is released.

      every 6-9 months,
      • by ILEoo ( 538065 )
        You can make install CD which includes those latest SP. http://www.betaplace.co.uk/ssp1.asp
        (Haven't tried it myself,just read it on news ;)
      • Microsoft have a CD you can get for free containing most of that:

        Windows Security Update CD [microsoft.com]

        The Windows Security Update CD will be shipped to you free of charge. This CD includes Microsoft critical updates released through October 2003 and information to help you protect your PC. In addition, you will also receive a free antivirus and firewall trial software CD.

        This CD is only available for Windows XP, Windows Me, Windows 2000, Windows 98, and Windows 98 Second Edition (SE).

        Obviously it will get out-of

      • You CAN do this, it's called Slipstreaming..

        I know for sure you can Slipstream Service Packs and hotfixes, but I'm also pretty sure if you find the correct almost-undocumented-hidden-behind-a-door-that-has- a-sign-saying-"Beware-of-the-Leopard"-in-it switch to pass to the IE updater application, that it will also allow you to Slipstream in IE updates.
      • >> so that on a new install, all I would need to do is get a CD (burn one even) that contains the above three files.

        And they listen...

        Microsoft Secuirty Patch CD [microsoft.com]

        You do have to wait for it to be deliverd (its _free_ ), but it has the latest patches on one CD. Just re-install, and then run the patches from the CD before going online, grab a good firewall & virus scanner, and then do whatever.


        NeoThermic
  • AV companies? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by m.mascherpa ( 687120 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:14AM (#8422227)
    Have you ever had the doubt that viruses aren't actually written by bad bad people, but by some mysterious department in some AV company?

    Really, i can't imagine that there are so many (800 viruses/month is SO much) evil-programmers that prefer to spend their know-how writing code they will never get paid for, instead of selling their experience to someone who needs it and earn a lot of money..
    • Re:AV companies? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by benj_e ( 614605 ) <walt@eis.gmail@com> on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:45AM (#8422312) Journal

      programmers that prefer to spend their know-how writing code they will never get paid for, instead of selling their experience to someone who needs it and earn a lot of money

      Right, no one would ever write code for the joy of writing it. That's why this OSS fad will never take off...oh wait.
    • Really, i can't imagine that there are so many (800 viruses/month is SO much) evil-programmers that prefer to spend their know-how writing code they will never get paid for, instead of selling their experience to someone who needs it and earn a lot of money..

      Who is to say that they aren't doing both? Why wouldn't there be any talented IT professionals who create the very problems they are hired to solve? Provides job security, and you KNOW you can solve the problem quickly and look good; after all, you
    • That would explain a lot....

      The same allegation was made against McAfraud some time ago, and I don't remember then taking anyone to court over it, which may suggest something.

      • I've mentioned this before: there was an interview with McA. his own self back around 1989 (probably to plug his book) in which he said something to the effect that it behooved AV companies to generate demand for their products, even if that involved releasing malware themselves. Someone here on /. linked to the article a couple years ago, but last time I went looking for it, I couldn't find it. (Got it archived somewhere, tho.)

  • by igloo-x ( 642751 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:18AM (#8422239)

    ...safe in the knowledge that the VIRUS SQUAD are dissecting viruses for me AS WE SPEAK!

    ACTIVATE TEAM VIRUS SQUAD! GO FOR GLORY!

  • Glamorous? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Aphrika ( 756248 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:24AM (#8422249)
    "There are about 800 new viruses a month. And the unglamorous bit of our work is often the other 798."

    Anti-virus vendors that consider a mass outbreak of a worm to be 'glamorous', compared to the 'unglamorous' stuff that doesn't get as much publicity? It might sound daft, but consider that they (should) put the same amount of work into each and every virus - i.e. preventing it - there shouldn't really be an issue with how glamorous something bad is.

    Analyse it, deal with it, out the door, next virus is how it should be. I'd hate to think how they'd deal with biological virus outbreaks...
    • Re:Glamorous? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I think his point is that they do exactly what you say - analyze it, deal with it, get the fix out the door. Twice a month, though, yahoos outside their business decide that a worm/trojan/virus is "important" enough to cover in the mass media. I suspect they don't go looking for "glamour", but that it instead finds them. Incidentally feeding the ego of the virus writers, of course...

  • So very, very true. (Score:5, Informative)

    by nordicfrost ( 118437 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:33AM (#8422272)
    "If you unblocked port 135 [an access point Blaster targeted] you would be found by Blaster," Lee says, adding that it would just be a matter of time.

    This happened when I installed a (legal) copy of Windows 2000 on my GFs old machine. Boom! Infected with Blaster on the first five minutes on the net, trying to D/L a firewall. Not to speak of the servicepacks... It happened so fast, I thought there was something wrong with the modem drivers, I downloaded via an iBook. I spent a lot of time getting that machine up. But as the family of the GF saw what happened, three persons became Apple converts that evening.

    My GF now has an iBook and is more productive on a computer than ever.
    • by wfberg ( 24378 )
      You can click on advanced in the TCP/IP setup during setup, and activate IP filtering, and deny all TCP connections (it blocks inbound only). It doesn't work during booting, so don't be hooked up to the internet during that.

      It's inexcusable that things like DCOM even listen to non-localhost connections by default, even moreso as windows NT/2k/XPproper firewalling. The times I've wished for ipchains on these things..
  • by Nathaniel ( 2984 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:46AM (#8422316)
    All that effort and the anti virus companies still haven't figured out a way to share their work with a common signature file. No wonder there is so much drugery.
    • Of course not. Different accuracies (including the quality of their various signature data files) are part of the horn each AV company toots.

      If they all used the same signature files, they'd have to rely entirely on having the fastest scanning engine, the best update procedure, or some similarly irrelevant qualification for people to buy theirs above someone elses, or else go into a price war situation (which would inevitably lead to more outsourcing, and we don't want to increase that, do we??)

      So while k
  • Unsafe (Score:5, Interesting)

    by t_allardyce ( 48447 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:49AM (#8422327) Journal
    Its quite ironic that over the years ive downloaded a hell of a lotta dodgy programs from dodgy sites and P2P and never used an anti-virus tool and the only trouble ive had (never used outlook) is when i've connected an unpatched windows machine to the net and been infected in 3 minutes.
    • Re:Unsafe (Score:5, Informative)

      by s7uar7 ( 746699 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @10:10AM (#8422411) Homepage
      How do you know? Without anti-virus software, unless a virus is doing something really obvious, such as rebooting your machine, you're not going to. I always find it amusing when I here people say they've been using Norton/McAfee/Whatever for 5 years and never had a virus. That's not their anti virus software, that's just luck. All they can be sure of is they've never had a virus their package can detect. Anti virus software doesn't make you immune from catching them, it just stops them spreading and (hopefully) makes cleaning up easier.
      • I wouldn't go bragging that I'd "never had a virus" unless I'd checked the MD5 Sums of all files to see if they are the same as they were at install time. I'dbe surprised if there's not an app that does this for you on any platform.
      • I'm in the same camp as the parent poster. I refuse to go near AV stuff. I have been connected to the net for many, many years and I have yet to be infected. "How do you know that?" you ask? Well, on occasion I have run one of the web-based scanners just to silence naysayers. It has never found a single thing. Since I also don't do the reinstall treadmill, if I had ever been infected once in the last 2 or 3 years it would have shown up.

        Step one is never using a MS product for email.

        Step two is filte
  • The Perfect Virus..? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Tryfen ( 216209 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:49AM (#8422331) Homepage
    I was thinking about how to design the "perfect" virus... I'm not a proficient enough programmer to even begin writing a virus - so don't come a knocking. But it's an interesting thought experiment.

    Here's what I've got so far...

    1) Virus initially comes in as an attachment - user opens attachment (relies on non tech-savy people).

    2) Virus scans through "Sent Items" and sends itself to every address that has been sent an attachment in the past. Uses a subject line like "Updated [whatever]" (Tech-savy folk might forget basic precautions)

    3) Virus scans through every Excel / Word / .cpp file and randomly changes one digit per file (imagine if your report to the board now says 9 Million rather than 1 Million... or if your for...next loop is waiting for an incorrect value)

    4) Virus wipes itself out after 6 hours (most people only update their virus checker >= 24hours. Once signs of the virus have gone it will be hard to know if you have been infected and which files have been compromised)

    5) FBI come and arrest me :-)

    Seriously... one has to admire the "I Love You" virus, if only for getting so many tech-savvy people to click through... But what really worries me is the viruses we haven't discovered. What if, say, Winamp has a logic bomb in it? How would any of us know until all our data was corrupted?
    • by AndroidCat ( 229562 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:55AM (#8422352) Homepage
      With the professional turn in viruses, I wonder if we'll ever see an automated version of the Make Money Fast scam?

      At each hop in the infection, a virus could gather PayPal and other account information from the hard drive. That would be passed along in all the mailings it sends out to other machines, gathering more account info along the way. Once it travelled five hops, it would use the information to send five dollars to the account at the top of its list, remove top account, move the others up, repeat.

      The social engineering aspects are huge: "Gee, my computer has been infected, but if I wait until it's infected several other computers before removing it, I could make millions!" It could even come with a reassuring EULA: "This is really legal honest! The FTA said so!"

      There are privacy concerns, of course, but if it only passed on the account information required to deposit and not to withdraw money, I'm sure people would feel so much better about it. :^P

    • by gnu-generation-one ( 717590 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @11:02AM (#8422697) Homepage
      "I was thinking about how to design the "perfect" virus."

      (1) Virus intially comes in as an attachment. This is a decoy, we're not going for computers owned by retards this time.

      (2) Virus tests for one of the recent linux vulnerabilities. If it gets in, this indicates that we've got someone with a default unpatched install of Mandrake or whatever, who probably imagines they're immune. Plenty of time to proceed.

      (3) Virus has a look through the setup files of common FTP programs to obtain website passwords, connects to website, searches for .exe and .tar.gz files, uploads itself in their place. Virus knows that people will download the .tar.gz, configure, make, and install it, then run it without even looking at the source code.

      (4) Virus uploads a set of personal data to a hidden file on that website.

      (5) Virus goes through the ~/Mail folder, looking for username/password combinations mailed to the person by clueless companies such as maplin.co.uk, who email peoples' passwords in cleartext. Stores a list of all the data it's collected so far.

      (6) Virus sets up a backdoor, using port-knocking so that none of the "respond to virus with portscan" tools can find it.

    • by Dexx ( 34621 )
      1) Virus initially comes in as an attachment - user opens attachment (relies on non tech-savy people).

      When the virus sends itself out, have it send an email containing a simulated conversation between two college students planning a weekend out. Have the conversation end with the comment of sending the pics of the weekend as a slide show or something. Have one of the email addresses (visible in half the replies) be one character off the target email address.

      So now our victim sees a conversation bet
    • 3) Virus scans through every Excel / Word / .cpp file and randomly changes one digit per file (imagine if your report to the board now says 9 Million rather than 1 Million... or if your for...next loop is waiting for an incorrect value)

      Anyone in a corporate situation where documents and source code have revision/version numbers, and isn't using a source control system is asking for trouble. Any source control system would point out exactly what lines have changed in the file the next time you go to do som
  • by cwsulliv ( 522390 ) * <cwsulliv@triad.rr.com> on Sunday February 29, 2004 @10:38AM (#8422553)
    I received a few emails with attachments which just smelled like worms, although neither the AV checker I had on my Linux system nor one of the online AV checkers identified them as infected. Curious about this, I saved them in a directory and rechecked them from time to time. It wasn't until 3 or 4 months later that the AV checkers fingered them as worms, and worms that had been floating around for almost a year. (I assume a virus writer must have tweaked the code on an existing virus just enough to make its signature unidentifiable as the original worm.)
  • by Fantastic Lad ( 198284 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @10:43AM (#8422583)
    The uninitiated computer user who owns and updates a copy of, "_______ Anti-Virus," must be just shivering!

    "You mean, there's nearly 800 new viruses a month? Wow! I'm sure glad I have my copy of '_______' to protect me from having to know what's really going on in the dark and chaotic world just beyond my telephone/cable connection! And now those terrorists are recruiting psychologists, too? To know what I think in order to get me to click on the activate-virus button? Oi, Crikey! The FEAR!!!! Somebody should bomb somebody! Somebody should take away my rights! I'm sure glad I live in Australia which has the back-bone to support our two other brothers in the Axis of Assholes; the U.S. and the U.K.!"

    I also noted that the article neatly throws the whistle-blower under the umbrella of suspicion;

    "The first point of contact with a new virus may come from an end user - someone bitten by a bug or suspicious of an odd-looking file. "We may hear of it when some victim sends it into a lab, or the virus writer himself - and it's almost always a him - will send it in," Ducklin says.

    Marvelous. If this meme gets out, the public will then, not be allowed, to police itself. Who wants to be the target of an anti-terrorist investigation, after all?

    Modern Media is a joke. It takes a conscious effort to remain calm and light-humored while reading this kind of garbage.


    -FL

    • Notice this came out after MS said they were putting AV in their next big service pack? The existing AV compaines have about 18 month left to scare customers into paying them forever or else they will go the way of a very long list of other software players (diskdouble, stac, procomm, qemm, desqview).

      This weekend I had a discussion with a market researcher (who clicked on the wrong stuff too many times) and I asked him how the most effective way to sell an AV program would be. His said press releases kee
  • by BiOFH ( 267622 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @11:39AM (#8422893)
    Open Safari. Go to /.
    Virus story. Yawn.
    Wonder how people can still defend Windows with that "it does what I want" or "it gets the job done" excuse.
    Scroll.
    Get on with doing what I want and getting the job done.

    (posting no bonus. mod off topic if you must. just an aside.)

    • Wonder how people can still defend Windows with that "it does what I want" or "it gets the job done" excuse.

      I have an anti-virus program, two firewalls, and I don't open strange email attachments. So yes, Windows does what I want and gets the job done.
  • Alarmist Rhetoric (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ThisIsFred ( 705426 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @02:19PM (#8423754) Journal
    If that is the proper term. I think we've passed the point where we have to give count of every single variant of malware that is in existance. Imagine if we did the same thing with taxonomy:

    TAXONOMIST 1: Look! This bird has the same marking, but it's 0.000156mm to the left.

    TAXONOMIST 2: Woohoo, it's a new species!

    (they high-five eachother)

    TAXONOMIST 1: Wow, at this rate we'll be discovering 56,000 new species a year!

    There may have been 800 new propagating malware programs out there, but I'd be willing to bet that 797 of them were just variants of some existing code. Perhaps anti- "virus" solutions vendors need to classify them this way internally because of their detection methods, but there's no need to feign panic just because some new variant has a different string in it.

    I have a problem with the term "virus", because it causes people to view these malware programs as some sort of pathogen, which most are definitely not. The malware does not change its design on its own. Most don't intentionally harm the host computer, either. If I were to classify the most prevalent new malware programs out there, my list would be rather short:

    Microsoft Word Macros: Story, Titch, etc. All the same thing. A VB script that attaches itself to an MS Office document. The solution is to either limit what functions can be called from inside MS Office, or give the user a real status and config utility to see what is inside an MS Office document. It's not a "virus", it's just a macro.

    Mass-Mailer "Worms": Personally, I think don't like the designation "mass-mailer", I prefer "Outlook for Microsoft Windows Design Flaw Exploiter". These little malware scripts or binaries take advantage of Windows' flawed shell execute functions in conjuction with Outlook's flawed design choice to open automatically every possible data type, instead of just plain text. Every OE malware from Mailissa to Mydoom belongs to this category. Klez could be considered a minor variant because 1) it's binary instead of a script, and 2) it carries with it additional malware programs.

    RPC/DOM Worms: Code Red 1 & 2 and the Admin worm (plus all the variants) are all malware programs that effect the same vulnerability. There was another one in this list that caused so much trouble recently, but I can't remember its name.

    Internet Explorer as Gateway: All of the "spyware", "adware" and malware that appears in the form of either image formats that exploit vulnerabilities and load code, or malware binaries/ActiveX controls. The latter usually take control of IE and do various naughty things.

    Stupid-ware: Sometimes incorrectly called "trojans". Those messages that did not originate from Microsoft but claimed to hold important security updates. It's not a trojan if it doesn't do something useful while it's doing something bad. Just social engineering. Would you take a "cure" from some crazy bum on the street claiming to be a doctor? Oh wait, I forgot, millions of people feed the penis-enlargement spam industry by actually buying those pills.

    The only category that worries me is the third, because the vulnerability wasn't obvious to me. The operation of the others is easy to understand, and also easy to avoid. When Mailissa first made an appearance, I promptly banned the use of Outlook and OE as a mail client at work. When we started to get e-mail messages (with attached malware) from the outside, I configured our web-based e-mail client to never display images and to display a warning in big red letters above links to download certain types of attachments. The author of the web-based e-mail is my kind of guy- His program doesn't render HTML, and he steadfastly refuses to make it do so. Klez still managed to get through, but I still have to update our NAT/mail server to scan and dispose of those messages (if only for the fact that they're annoying). I now consider Internet Explorer as a tool only to interf

  • if a virus was copyrighted, would anti-virus that worked against it be against DMCA?
  • by SethJohnson ( 112166 ) on Sunday February 29, 2004 @09:28PM (#8425952) Homepage Journal


    You can tell by reading the article that they didn't assign their best technical writer to this job.


    I started giggling when I read this section:

    "A dedicated virtual private network (VPN) connects the various research labs, room-to-room, and the data in transit is encrypted so it's possible to send specimens from one side of the world to the other without the risk of spreading infection."

    Uhhh... The VPN just ensures nobody is spying on their communication. This makes it sound like the virus could escape out of transit like a prisoner jumping out of a paddy wagon. Not bloody likely!

Understanding is always the understanding of a smaller problem in relation to a bigger problem. -- P.D. Ouspensky

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