Virus Writers - The Enemy Within

Slob Nerd writes "An interesting read from todays Observer "He's 21, he's got dreadlocks, likes punk bands... and his hobby could wreck your computer in seconds. Clive Thompson infiltrates the secret world of the virus writers who see their work as art - while others fear that it is cyber-terrorism.""

My Hero

[DarkHelmet]

I think this is the third time this story has been posted.

Googled version to NY Times story [google.com]

Of course, does it really count if the same story appears on a *different* page? Or a different website.

Maybe it's time that slashdot subscribers get a cached version of the story hosted on slashdot. That way, when an editor is about to submit a duplicate story, it'll check for similar articles cached on the site. That way this kind of thing doesn't keep happening. Hell... Slashdot editors won't even have to read slashdot anymore!

Thank you CmdrTaco for rejecting the story I just submitted in favor of this one. And I *know* the story I submitted wasn't a duplicate, or else my web server would have felt it. ;)

You really are my hero.

Re:My Hero

[DarkHelmet]

Oh yeah...

The slashdot article where this story already appeared is here:

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/02/06/194322 9&mode=nested [slashdot.org]

Re:My Hero

[Motherfucking Shit]

And just three days after that, it appeared here:

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/02/09/024524 8&mode=thread [slashdot.org]

Which, I imagine, makes this story not a dupe, but a triplicate!

Re:My Hero

[Have Blue]

Not a dupe, but a tripe! Oh, wait...

Re:My Hero

[rlowe69]

Which, I imagine, makes this story not a dupe, but a triplicate!

Would that be a tripe [reference.com]? How appropriate.

Re: My Hero

[Black Parrot]

> And just three days after that, it appeared here:

Maybe it's a viral story?

Re:My Hero

[You're All Wrong]

OK, in other virus news, slightly more up-to-date, female virus-writer Gigabyte has been arrested in Belgium.

http://www.sophos.com.au/virusinfo/articles/gig a by te.html

Like many of the smarter vxers, she never released a virus into the ecosystem where it would thrive.

If it were the US, she'd
a) be 100% protected by the 1st amendment.
b) be banged up for being a terrorist instead.

My inbox has dozens of viruses dumped into it every day, which completely and totally pisses me off. However, I'd still shake th

Re:My Hero

[Hieronymus Howard]

My inbox has dozens of viruses dumped into it every day, which completely and totally pisses me off. However, I'd still shake the hand of the writers of some of the cleverer viruses

So would I. Then I'd kick them in the kneecaps with my steel-toecapped boots.

HH
--

+1 Interesting

[eugene ts wong]

You really do have an interesting point. If sending a virus to my computer can be called art or intelligence or cleverness, then can kicking in the virus writer's knees be considered art or cleverness? After all, the kicker is just exploiting a the weakness of the kickee, in the same manner that the virus writer is exploiting a weakness of someone else. It would be artistic because it would be sending a message, & it would displaying the human body in a way that isn't usually done. It would certainly get the kickee to think.

Re:My Hero

[JuggleGeek]

sorry but a good graffiti is art!!!

If you spray paint your crap over my building, you are a vandal. I don't care if you have the skill of Michelangelo, Da Vinci, and Rembrandt combined, you don't have the right to paint on things that belong to other people. If you do, you are a vandal. Period.

True artists can find legitimate outlets - they even get paid. Graffit art is done by gang members and other scum. Virus writers are simiply their online equivilent.

Re:My Hero

[AndroidCat]

Clive Thompson has been shopping this story around. The two-parter in the Toronto Star [thestar.com] was billed as "SPECIAL TO THE STAR". Special reformating of the same article as far as I can tell.

I'm always skeptical of stories like this. Everytime there was a story where I knew the people and facts directly, the story was usually a mish-mash mixed or invented to sex up the story.

Embellishment

[`Sean]

I'm always skeptical of stories like this. Everytime there was a story where I knew the people and facts directly, the story was usually a mish-mash mixed or invented to sex up the story.

That's usually the case with any subject! Every movie, documentary, or article that I've seen or read and have had personal experience with has been a load of bunk. I've been interviewed for numerous newspaper and magazine articles and they very rarely use any of my quotes in context. They'll usually intentionally remove the context to twist words to mean whatever agenda they're trying to push.

My personal experiences with the media have basically ruined my ability to enjoy anything anymore. Since I know for a fact that virtually every story I've contributed to has been embellished by the authors to increase its entertainment value, I assume that any story that's been done about a subject I'm not personally familiar with has been tainted as well. And, most of the time, I'm correct. A simple five minute Google or encyclopedic search on the subject gives me more accurate data than the story that I'm following up on.

Re:Embellishment

[AndroidCat]

Allow me my rose coloured glasses. I might suspect that all news stories are equally flawed, but it's only the "teenage haxor angst" ones that I know are flawed. :^)

News stories are definitely like sausages and laws--never ever watch any of them being made.

Re:Embellishment

[`Sean]

I might suspect that all news stories are equally flawed, but it's only the "teenage haxor angst" ones that I know are flawed.

My mistake...I should have qualified my post with a "Virtually every..." instead of simply saying "every...". I'm just bitter about constantly getting misquoted. The first misquote of my career goes back to 1996 when an MacWeek author writing a Web graphics piece misquoted me as saying that JPEG is a lossless compression when I explicitly told him in both a phone and e-mail interview it was lossy.

But I'm not bitter...

Re:Embellishment

[AndroidCat]

I got enrolled into a fictitious hacker group called "Top 40" in Montreal in 1983. Not by name, just by association. The reporter of that story crashed a Hudson Yacht-Club Get-Together looking for the scoop on this infamous group, and was unpleasant enough at the door ("What are you trying to hide?") that they let him in so he could see that we were just harmless computer enthusiasts. Some of us were starting small companies at the time. Oddly enough, he never put that in his story, which was mainly about a vast underground network of eevil hackers. (I guess a social gathering at a yacht club didn't fit his fable.)

I wonder if that reporter was Clive in his early years?

The actual story was that 4 teenagers got busted by Bell-cops for using their Applecat modems to phreak. Woo!

Re:Embellishment

[Deraj DeZine]

I...very rarely use any...quotes in context...every story I've...done...I...tainted...And, most of the time, I'm...more accurate...than the story that I'm following up on.

This guy has no idea what he's talking about. Mainstream media reporters do great work. This man contradicts himself and generally brags about how he exploits ellipses to twist people's words around on Slashdot (though presumably, he does this in everyday conversation). He clearly has no credibility.

Sincerely,
FOX News. Fair and balanced.

Re:My Hero

[gruntled]

The New York Times, like most large papers, offers its stories to other publications via the wire, which these days is just an FTP server. When I broke a big story, my byline appeared in papers all over the world.

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Re:My Hero

[plugger]

I don't read the Observer, as I agree with you that it embellishes stories to create better headlines. In contrast though, its sister paper, The Guardian, really does try to keep the record straight. They have a 'corrections and clarifications' column where they correct any wrong assertion that they print, however minor. They also have a reader's editor. His job is to investigate complaints and queries from the readers and publish his findings in a monthly column.

Re:My Hero

[saforrest]

Attackers of the CoS had used the service to publish, anonymously, various CoS tracts. The service shut down one week after the Observer article was published.

Well, anon.penet.fi (which is what I assume you're talking about) was shut down willingly by its maintainer shortly after a raid by the Finnish police seized personal information on an anon.penet.fi user who'd posted Scientology data.

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[account_deleted]

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Re:My Hero

[sadomikeyism]

I read this morning (and submitted to Slashdot) a story ...

Here is a fantastic new concept: how about people submit ORIGINAL stories to slashdot, not just pointers to stories published elsewhere on the web? Citing references to support your points is fine, but how about /.ers creating some original content for a change?

Re:My Hero

[gaijin99]

I think this is the third time this story has been posted.

And, as always, they refer to the virus as "computer virus", not "Windows virus". I believe that there are, what, two virus for UNIX systems? Yet somehow magically the Windows virus transmogrofy and become known as "computer virus".

Googling reveals that this trend in helping BillG cover up the fact that its his OS, not computers, that are virus laden is quite widespread. Search for "Computer Virus" and you'll get around 1.5 million hits; "Windows Virus", by contrast only turns up around 35 thousand hits.

We really do need to work to spread the meme that its not a computer virus, its a Windows virus. Make more people aware of the fact that its a Windows problem, not a computer problem, and it does two things: firstly it might make them consider alternatives to Windows, and secondly if they know its a Windows specific problem they might try and pressure MS into making Windows more secure.

Re:My Hero

[gaijin99]

Until unix has more than a tiny share of the computers that the readers interact with, it will always be a computer virus. Get over it.

Rank defeatism :) It may be true *today* that non-Windows systems account for a small percentage of computers people have direct contact with (though I should point out that indirectly they encounter pleanty of non-MS machines), that does not mean it will always be that way. MS is not some undefeatable monolith which we shall always have around, they're a corporation.

Re:My Hero

[Temporal]

Your post was modded "troll" because it was blatant FUD. Pro-unix FUD, perhaps, but FUD nonetheless. You assert that Unix is superior to Windows because most viruses only run on Windows. The simple fact of the matter is that most viruses run on Windows because Windows has nearly 100% market share of people who aren't computer saavy. A worm for Linux would never work because Linux users know better than to run untrusted executables, and Linux users usually patch OpenSSH right away when a remote root exploit is found. The number of Linux machines left open to attack is so small that a virus or worm simply would not be able to propogate. Meanwhile, there are hundreds of millions of Windows users just waiting to open any e-mail attachment you send them, and who haven't ever heard of Windows Update.

Unix is not inherently less vulnerable to viruses than Windows is. No, user/root separation does not hinder e-mail viruses designed to DDoS web sites. Yes, there is software running on your Unix box right now that has buffer overrun vulnerabilities.

Re:My Hero

[gaijin99]

Even if what you say is true, which I dispute, it still doesn't make my primary observation: they aren't computer virus, they're Windows virus, any less true. A "computer virus" would be one which operated on computers as a general class, regardless of hardware configuration or operating system. Actually, I wonder if such a beastie is possible, it'd have to be a *BIG* monster...

Also, while my box may well have overrun vulnerabilities (doubtless true), I disagree completely with your statement that if *NIX machines had the marketshare there would be as many virus for them. I think you are vastly underestimating the user/root separation. At the very least it prevents a single user infection from affecting the entire machine. Yes, a single user could infect his own home directory tree and of course this could be used to DDoS someone. However, there would not be a situation similar to the Outlook/Outlook Express situation where simply recieving a viral mail would infect the system; *NIX apps aren't designed that stupidly.

I have no doubt that if/when *NIX becomes more common there will be more *NIX virus, but to say that its "just as bad" is to buy into MS's own FUD.

My case in point here is Mac OS X, it has a fairly large userbase, and most of that userbase is not computer expert (one of the Mac selling points is that it is (theoretically) simpler to use than Windows). Yet there has not been a significant number of Mac OS X virus (virus for older Mac OSes are more common by far). Why? Because Mac OSX is mostly BSD UNIX.

Virus Writers

[ThisNukes4u]

Virus writers, while technically skilled, are complete dumb butts for using their skills in ways that are harmful to society and businesses, even if it's not their fault that it is easy to do thanks to Microsoft. They'd be better off using their skills for something more productive.

Re:Virus Writers

[flatt]

I doubt you'll get much opposition to your point but are you going to pay them? It's the same reason kids get involved in gangs and whatnot: boredom and lack of belonging/recognition.

Easy problem to find, harder problem to solve.

Re:Virus Writers

[MMaestro]

True its the same reason kids get involved in games and whatnot, but its been said before and I'll say it again : Its all fun and games until someone gets hurt. Virus writers are just lucky computers haven't advanced far enough where medical machines can be remote controlled via the internet. (Watch, if some old guy dies because his breathing unit goes down from a virus they'll be hell to pay.)

The only difference between gangs (real life ones) and virus writers is the fact that gangs do direct damage wherea

Au contraire, viruses already affect medical care!

[ccmay]

Virus writers are just lucky computers haven't advanced far enough where medical machines can be remote controlled via the internet.

The PACS system (digital X-ray reading monitors) at the hospital where I work caught Code Red last year, and was down for a day or two. X-rays were being read on printed films just like the old days. Slowed everything down significantly. I don't know that it directly affected any patient's health, but it certainly could have.

-ccm

Re:Virus Writers

[gustgr]

I don't belive they are completelly skilled. I would pay to see one of these VB virus writers to build an application which can improve our OS's or Networks.

Like the elders say it takes 10 years to a three grow but only 10 minutos to take it down. It's the same with computer virus.

Re:Virus Writers

[JeffHeatonDotCom]

Besides, its not like the "script kiddie" even has to be smart enought to code the virus in the first place. Often just capture one in the wild and modify it a bit to pick on your favorite target. Or for the REALLY weak on programming skills, just use a virus writer like this. (a link to the description, not the actual virus writer) http://www.pestpatrol.com/pestinfo/n/neuroid_word_ macro_virus_generator.asp

Re:Virus Writers

[tommck]

Did you see the jobs they have? assistant in a home for the disabled?
There aren't that many high tech jobs in eastern Europe. I know a guy who moved to the US from Bulgaria and he said that all his friends were bored with life and wrote viruses for fun. Nobody there would hire them to do tech work.

Ironically, now that outsourcing is targetting Eastern Europe, one of your problems (viruses, etc) might be subdued a bit (a bit!) by one of our other problems (jobs leaving the country). Of course, people elsewhere will always be around to write them.

Re:Virus Writers

[Dark Lord Seth]

These aren't virus writers, these are just regular script kiddies. Nothing interesting.

Re:Society and business are good?

[ccmay]

Americans, five percent of the world's population consume a third of the world's resources.

And Europeans, maybe eight percent of the world's population, consume at least another third, so get off your high horse. The fact is that anybody in the developed Western world uses resources at a far greater rate than a Third World peasant. Self-righteous moral preening about how your car gets five miles per gallon more than mine is of little meaning in the great scheme of things.

Much of that consumption is used in building things that end up in other countries anyway. If America builds a machine tool or sewage treatment plant or airplane that ends up in some third-world Ickystan, have we really taken anything away from the Ickystanian man, or have we actually done him a favor?

Plague of locusts indeed. If you subscribe to such idiocy, at least recognize that you are one too.

-ccm

Deftones aren't a punk band

[Anonymous Coward]

And the technical side of the article is a pile of shit as well. Virii don't "reprogram parts of your computer". Script kiddies generally don't download virii, but trojan clients.

Re:Deftones aren't a punk band

[Ithika]

What the heck are virii? The plural of virus is viruses.

Oh God not this again. Are people so goddamned lacking in imagination that if they see a word being coined they have to shoot it down in flames?

Have a good look at the jargon file. There are many words there which are corruptions of "normal" words used in reference to modern technology. That doesn't make them wrong. It makes them new. How many of you numbnuts would have hated Shakespeare for all his neologisms? Here's a word I'd like you to read up

"from the dept."

[PollGuy]

Think that's code for "From the >/dev/null dept."?

Anyone seen a good written virus?

[Anonymous Coward]

Whenever I disassembled viruses or worms, I had to scream. Even in the good old DOS-times and even with bootsector viruses, where size was an important factor, they were simply horrible written. (i.e. unnecassary bloated)

While some may imply in their posts, that virus writers are technically skilled, I've yet to see a single example of beeing better than the avarage bad programmer...

Re:Anyone seen a good written virus?

[miu]

Some of the 'tiny' viruses were very clever. The basic idea was to create the smallest replicating .com infector. One of them was even partially self encrypting to avoid scanners and still managed to come in at less than 200 bytes.

Re:Anyone ever seen well written english?

[fafaforza]

I was never able to find out what [sic] means. Anyone have an idea?

meaning of [sic]

[n3k5]

[sic] means "Spelling In Context".

No, it doesn't. 'Sic' is a latin word. I don't speak latin and I'm too lazy to look it up, so I only recall the approximate meaning, which is something alone the lines of 'such', 'thus'. The implied meaning is "yes, what I just wrote indeed was in the original text just like this". So, your explanation of the concept is not bad at all, but your concrete answer is plain wrong.

Re:meaning of [sic]

[Xarius]

I stand corrected, I checked on acronymfinder.com and it gave me:

Sic [not an acronym] Latin: thus; so (not a mistake and is to be read as it stands)

I had always assumed it mean that, sorry and thanks for pointing it out to me (nothing worse than being wrong and thinking you're right!) :)

Re:Anyone ever seen well written english?

[Shisha]

Oh dear, this thread really exposes the state of the Slashdot community: Grand-grandparent can't use adverbs properly, grandparent makes a typo, while correcting someone's grammer and finally the parent:

I assume it's not a typographical error.

shows that he has little clue about the fact, that typography is about designing thing containg text in such a way, that makes them aesthetically pleasing.

The question now is, of course, what have I screwed up? :-)

Re:Anyone ever seen well written english?

[transient]

The question now is, of course, what have I screwed up?

Well, how about the entire second half of your post? :-)

"Typo" is short for "typographical error." And strictly speaking, typography is not necessarily concerned with being aesthetically pleasing. It's simply the use of type.

Re:Anyone ever seen well written English?

[1u3hr]

The question now is, of course, what have I screwed up? :-)

"while correcting someone's grammer"

Also, one generally capitalises "English" as in the title.

Re:Anyone ever seen well written english?

[iamanatom]

It should be 'great grandparent' rather than 'grand-grandparent'.

Complete Bullshit

[ktanmay]

It's not like I don't have appreciation for the fine arts, but this is taking it too far, it is almost to the extent of patronizing virus writers.

Ok fine, what if someday, a student doing research in microbiology decides, just for the sake or fine arts, I'll release a mutant plague bacteria...

Re:Complete Bullshit

[Dutchmaan]

If that mutant strain of bacteria turned people into random primary colors, I'd be all for it for arts sake..

Re:Complete Bullshit

[ktanmay]

Well, it's plague, so I'm sure the buboes will be plenty colourfull...

Dupe, or no dupe...

[nordicfrost]

With quotes like this: 'This guy,' he proclaimed, 'is the best at Visual Basic.' I really understand the level of these guys... Show me an 1 k, auto-replicating, ASM-written worm spreading like the lightening through an undocumented hole and I'll be impressed. These are nothing more than wannebe punks.

CmdrTaco 's on the march!

[GillBates0]

Nothing like two [slashdot.org] consecutive dupes [slashdot.org] to start a Sunday!

And here I was, with my coffee and breakfast all ready to read /. till lunch :(

Next story please!

Just an idea!

[HaRR0]

Maybe if the government or anti virus companys made like an online virtual internet for young people to upload there virus into this "virtual internet" to watch it spread and make a game like point scheme or something along the lines there wouldnt be much havoc online , I think it is mostly boredom that virus creaters do this for!

Re:Just an idea!

[rholliday]

I think the government's time and money would be best spent elsewhere. That would be a major, and largely pointless, undertaking. And even if for some godawful reason a "virtual internet" was created to be the punishment-free testbed for young virus writers, with their egos, they would never be satisfied until they got on the "real" internet and messed with "real" people.

Once twice thrice...

[CGP314]

First time from wired... it's a story.

Second time on NYT... it's a dupe.

Third time on the observer... it's a trupe?

-Colin [colingregorypalmer.net]

Re:Once twice thrice...

[cperciva]

Third time on the observer... it's a trupe?

The correct abbreviation for "triplicate" would be "trip". Which is also short for a possible explanation for such reposts...

Re:Once twice thrice...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm going to go with calling it a "tripe". That's an apt description in this case.

Re:Once twice thrice...

[Cheap Imitation]

Third time on the observer... it's a trupe?

I think tripe is closer to accurate...

cash money

[CGP314]

Boy, I'd love to be the author of that article. He just keeps making money selling it over and over again. In addition the paper's owners must take note of his name when it draws a metric herd of slashdotters.

::Walks off to write an article about virii::

-Colin [colingregorypalmer.net]

Wreck MY computer?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, no, all my computers run Linux, FreeBSD and Mac OS X.

I wish that, just for once, articles aimed at the public would be a little more accurate."

"He's 21, he's got dreadlocks, likes punk bands... and if you use Microsoft software, his hobby could wreck your computer in seconds"

From the all-mouth-and-no-meat department

[tagishsimon]

Umm. Slight absence of any mention of virus writing for profit: there's enough evidence that a number of recent virii were mainly about installing SMTP Relays on infected machines to propogate spam, or leaving a backdoor open so that this could later be done.

Or else installing DDOS software aimed at Spamhaus servers, or leaving backdoors open for same.

So. Art: Check. Vandalism: Check. Profit Motive: Check. Insubstantial "infiltration" by journalist: Check.

Ferinstance

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/12/03/14 23258&mode=nested [slashdot.org]

- Oops. There goes Spamhaus

http://securityresponse.symantec.com/ [symantec.com]

- most of this week's crop install backdoors.

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=200402210 51056136 [groklaw.net]

- Your IP Addy for sale to a spam-merchant near you...

Terrorism

[octal666]

Well, actually terrorism is using threats and violence to force someone to think or behave as you want.

Common virus-writers are more like random violence, they do not use to pursue economical or political agendas, more usually want recognition inside their own community.

I, for one, am fed up with this ciber-terrorists media propaganda.

OT: Punk?

[nurb432]

Since when is Iron Maden considered punk? Geesh, pansy...

Re:OT: Punk?

[nurb432]

Nah, real men listen to Bikini Kill and kittie :)

Nice guy

[Dark Lord Seth]

'Anyone can rewrite a hard drive with one or two lines of code,' he says. 'It makes no sense. It's really lame.' Besides which, it's mean, he says, and he likes to be friendly.

Then come over and install your friendly little programs on my PC. You can do so for free! No more annoying "distribution" anymore, you just come here, install your friendly little program and leave*, that is all. Sounds like a deal? Tell me in advance, because I might need to buy some essentials** for your visit.

* Might or might not involve a hearse.
** Like a toe tag and body bag.

... and his homepage ...

[bdejong]

http://www.spth.de.vu/ [spth.de.vu]

- bram

Re:... and his homepage ...

[Fnkmaster]

Wow, BAT files and Javascript viruses! Man, that is K-RAD! Reminds me of going to a computer store and editing autoexec.bat to do an ECHO "THIS COMPUTER SUCKS" loop when I was 10 years old. Would really confuse the people who worked there.

Anyway, anybody who thinks this qualifies as elite virus writing needs their head examined. There is really nothing elite about a script file. Not to mention that it should be apparent in this day and age that trashing other people's computers is not only very uncool but incredibly likely to get you thrown in federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison.

Article Was Lifted Directly From NY Times

[tealover]

Here's a link [nytimes.com] to the first paragraph.

Is this a copyright violation ?

Re:Article Was Lifted Directly From NY Times

[1u3hr]

Is this a copyright violation ?

No. Since it credits the author it's certainly been paid for. (It'd be far too easy to prove plagiarism if not.) Either the NYT syndicated it or the writer himself, depending on his contract with them.

Actually most of the interesting articles in the NYT get sundicated. If you want to read one that requires a payment to read (after a few weeks) just use their search function which gives you a paragraph or two and then Google on a likely phrase. You ususally find a copy of it

cannot kick-start?

[bo0ork]

"A virus cannot kick-start itself; a human needs to be fooled into clicking on it."

What, the author never heard of floppy disks, autostart.ini or malformed html?

Second Part to Hell

[rjshields]

When Mario is bored, he likes to sit at his laptop and create computer viruses and worms. Online, he goes by the name Second Part to Hell.

I suggest a new handle for Mario - Two Sandwiches Short of a Picnic

Hacks are art.

[Cybrr]

Cracks are not.

It's easier to destroy than to create.

Some other hobbies...

[Robo Dojo]

1. Cooking*
2. Cars
3. Boats
4. Trains
5. Swords
6. Guns

Just because you do them, doesn't mean you test them out on innocent people. How are these virus writers any different?

*Applies to slashdot readers, only.

Re:Some other hobbies...

[rmpotter]

Well... the act of creating a virus and storing it on a publicly accessible web server _is_ tantamount to distributing it, is it not? Would you take a bag of loaded hand guns and leave them on the floor in the middle of a daycare? Would you park your unlocked, running Ferrari next to a bar and ask a group of drunken patrons to "watch" it for you? In some ways, a computer virus is to software as hate literature is to the printed word. I don't see a solution to either problem. At best, I would hope virus writers would "share" their code in a more responsible -- ie more restrictive -- way. Open, unauthenticated access to destructive software should not be legal. "Free expression" -- even if it is a piece of software -- should not be permitted to harm millions of people. Perhaps legal virus writers should be regulated -- much like companies who produce and ship hazardous materials.

Virus Conspiracy

[superpulpsicle]

If you think teenage punks are the ones writing all the virus you're in for a surprise.

Someone needs to do some serious research and see how many came out of Norton Lab.

It's easy to blame some kid playing a guitar in his bedroom. It's another thing to hire a lawyer and blame virus scan companies.

Re:Virus Conspiracy

[jjohnson]

If you have any evidence, or anything beyond "it all fits" type speculation, then you've got a huge story there. If you don't, then your tinfoil hat is showing.

Re:Virus Conspiracy

[Reziac]

There was an interview with McAfee himself back about 1989 (probably to plug his book) in which he made some remark to the effect that it behooved antivirus companies to "create a market" even if that meant releasing viruses themselves.

While I don't *know* of any such activities by AV companies, this interview may well be the origin of such rumours -- it wasn't exactly the sort of thing as to inspire consumer confidence!

Someone here on /. posted a link to the interview (this was about 2 or 3 years ago), a

Karma penalty ?

[S3D]

Sholdn't be there Karma penalty for posting dup...triplicate article ? Isn't it amount to trolling ?

The New York Times Magazine

[Andrevan]

The New York Times Magazine a little while ago had a slightly more insightful article which also interviewed the dreadlocked guy and Phil3t0aster and stuff, additionally taking a peek into the culture of virus writers and script kiddies. I don't know if they put their magazine stuff online, but it was a good article.

Why don't mailers auto-zip and block executables?

[gad_zuki!]

Let look at a lot of these exploits, they generally are .scr, .vbs, .bat, etc files. By blocking these attachments by default you're going to avoid most attempts at compromising your machine.

Sure, this is old hat to slashdotters, but I think it would behoove all email client writers to do this by default as MS does now. Now, that leaves us with macro word/excel viruses, other exploits, and the zip files themselves. The first two can be taken care of by a competent virus scanner or system patching and the latter forces the user to open the zip archive thus revealing the true extension (most compression utilities do this) and copies the file(s) to some location thus giving the virus scanner more of a chance to check the thing for viruses.

Its far from a perfect solution, but it will make people sensitive to file extensions and file types. It will also save disk space and bandwidth by compressing attachments (or even the message itself). Added functionality can be added like signed zip archives, AV hooks into zip programs, etc. Heck, the zip format already provides a cross-platform encryption scheme. Sure its not 3DES/RSA or anything, but it sure beats nothing (especially for those worried about sniffing).

This is essentially the setup many of the companies I work with have. You get your pdf, doc, xls, etc but anything executable is either deleted or quarantined. I don't see why email clients written for residential customers can't do the same.

Data loss isn't even an issue, the worst case scenario is asking the guy who sent you that .exe to zip it because your mailer doesn't support executable extensions. If you get a bounce back or a message saying "I didnt send you an .exe" then you can safely assume the file is no good and just delete it or set your mailer to auto-delete.

This can be done in three steps:

1. Implement auto-zipping. Geeks and security sensitive people will probably enable this by default. Or it should be default with newer version of mailers.

2. Once a significant amount of traffic is in the zip format set your mailer to reject all executables. It also could auto-remail the person sending you executables. (this may be exploited by spammers looking for live email addresses).

3. Watch zip vendors work closer with AV vendors to provide better protection from viruses in zip archives.

Re:Why don't mailers auto-zip and block executable

[pe1chl]

Why don't mailers just forbid executables by default?
Not by looking at extensions, but by looking at the header.

Who ever needs to send executables by mail?
Not the millions that do get infected by viruses now.

I don't see the need to zip them. Just reject them.
Maybe setup some new service for "shared data" on Internet (has existed before) where you can put the executables that you would have otherwise mailed. Of course, virus-scanned.

Re:Why don't mailers auto-zip and block executable

[xSquaredAdmin]

Outlook Express automatically blocks any attachments which could potentially be viruses. But then the users get annoyed and uncheck it.

What about the article itself?

[Mr. Foofy]

How many more times does that article have to appear in newspapers before it's considered a virus? ;)

Bring back caning!

[ccmay]

Prison is not appropriate punishment for these jackasses. In fact, it's counterproductive, as it extinguishes any possibility for redemption. Prison is basically a trade school for criminals.

Some of these kids are quite smart and would have a bright future if they stayed on the rails. Prison will not correct them. Shame and pain will.

Therefore, I propose we whip them bloody in the public square, then let them go.

-ccm

Mod article down

[mattgreen]

Score: -1, Troll
He calls VB a computer language.

And the moral of the story is...

[TheMadPenguin]

Quit using MS Outlook. It's address book is a well written virus cannon capable of well-aimed bursts or scatter shot that can cover the globe in days. Outlook Express is no different. It may be a crippled version of Outlook but we all know it's cannon functions exactly the same way. ;-)

Old Article

[snookerdoodle]

While this article is dated today (2/22/04) in the guardian, it appeared at least a couple of other places a couple of weeks earlier:

The Impact Lab [impactlab.com] Some place called "sofa. rites de passage" [antville.org]

And in the NY Times 2/8/04 ($ required):

The Virus Underground [nytimes.com]

Mark

He's 21, he's got dreadlocks, likes punk bands

[frovingslosh]

He's 21, he's got dreadlocks, likes punk bands...

Sounds like we now know who to send the mobs with torches and pickforks after.

Re:It's the fucking USERS, not VIRUS WRITERS' faul

[rholliday]

Yes, users bear some responsibility for viruses' spread. Yes, I'm all for education of users. I work in tech support, believe me I'd love more educated users. Usually, I'm the one giving the basic lessons in the difference between a hard disk and a CD-ROM drive.
But the lion's share of the blame has to rest on the virus writers' collective shoulders. The vast majority have no pretensions of "educating the masses," or "simple curiosity." No, most of them just want to either a) screw people over for the hell of it, or b) get their (hopefully anonymous) 15 minutes of fame. These are the same types of people who will eventually be hired to write adware, spyware, and spamming apps. They are not heros. They are not admirable. They are degenerates and sociopaths, and they gives nerds and hackers horrible images with the very same "stupid users" that we have to interact with (and often get paid by) every day of our lives.

Fix, or blame?

[Beryllium Sphere(tm)]

Blaming is more fun, of course.

Fixing the problem requires stepping back and noticing some root causes.

WHY do we have a situation where a quick double-click can destroy a software installation or transfer ownership of the computer to a spammer?

Imagine a comparable situation in meatspace. Imagine a chemical plant with a big red button on the main floor which would set the plant on fire and release poison gas in the nearby city.

Management might try educating the workers, putting up signs saying "don't pus

Re:MOD PARENT +1 INSIGHTFUL

[nutznboltz]

If we just educated people better, viruses/diseases wouldn't be a problem. Works the same way for AIDS as it does W32.Klez.

Now that's sarcasm at its finest. Over 20 years with the same human virus and the problem just keeps getting worse. I doubt people are getting less educated about it over time.

It appears to me that overcoming human nature requires more than education.

Re:Hmmm

[skifreak87]

To play Devil's Advocate isn't there something good arising from virus writers? If there were no major viruses out there, I guarantee you most users wouldn't have anti-virus software and wouldn't know not to click on email attachments from unknown sources. Then, if someone really did want to cause major havoc, it would be even worse than it is now. I don't know if this is true, but I think it's possible. If no one ever expected a virus/worm, how long would it take to actually get the virus/worm off of e

Re:Hmmm

[__past__]

If nobody would write viruses, nobody would need virus scanners.

Not to mention that people do not understand that they should not run arbitrary email attachments. Every few weeks we have a major worm outbreak because millions of people happily run every piece of malicious code they find.

As for "real" worms that don't require a collaborative user to spread, it can hardly get worse than it is now, with all the knowledge and awareness we have. The really ugly ones spread in minutes, faster than anyone can react. (Also, they never seem to die, Nimda for example is still active.)

Re:Hmmm

[Patrik_AKA_RedX]

I guess it's the same joy some brainless, euh, "people" get from beating up weaker people or defenseless animals. Or vandalising someones car or something.
There's no risk in it and they get to feel so tough. Those people simply need a proverbial kick in the ass.

Users vs Software

[Baron_Yam]

Actually, I think that's a terribly wrong-headed attitude. While we might *have* to encourage users to think, we *should* be encouraging developers to produce better code.

We should be striving to create systems that just do what the users needs them to do without requiring the user to jump through hoops or take a course entitled "Best Practices in Computer Security". I don't need to be a mechanic to drive a car, I don't need to be an astronomer or astrophysicist to look through a telescope, and I shoul

Re:Users vs Software

[Ironica]

I don't need to be a mechanic to drive a car, I don't need to be an astronomer or astrophysicist to look through a telescope, and I shouldn't have to be a network security expert just to surf the web and send & receive email.

Well, think about it for a second.

When you learned to drive a car, you probably knew a little about it. There's an engine, it burns gas, that causes the wheels to go around. The gas pedal must have something to do with that burn rate. The brake makes the wheels stop.

Now, imag

Re:Viruses serve a purpose

[SwedishChef]

According to this logic we should encourage drunks to drive more often in order to expose poor automotive design. Or ignore overweight trucks on the highways to test bridge construction. Virus writers serve no useful purpose at all except to create windfall profits for networking people who are paid to clear the damn things; oh, and the virus protection people.

Re:Viruses serve a purpose

[hackstraw]

without viruses alot of the flaws in our operating systems would still be open today, then hackers would have free reign into your system without your knowledge

OK, I guess I'm suffering from them "having free reigh into my system" part, because I've never had an issue with virii on Linux, Solaris, or OSX, nor do I run Windows.

Re:Dupes on Slashdot

[1u3hr]

One suggestion: Keep a database or the title, author and URL (and maybe other unique info). Whenever a new article is to be posted, check to see if it has already been posted.

There is a database. You can even search it yourself, at the bottom of every page. Just typing "virus writers" into that came up with the dupes. The editors just don't give a fuck -- they don't care about spelling or grammar either, trivial though that is to check. If Taco responds at all to this it'll be something like "it's Sunday

Re:Writing poor articles for fun and profit

[You're All Wrong]

He wasn't talking about mpegs infecting computers, he mentioned files that _appear to be mpegs_ infecting computers. Typically by renaming them and then attaching with a different mime type, or simply by appending a second extension to the end which "usefully" doesn't get displayed by the recipient's mail reader. It's been done a hundred times, and will be done a hundred times more.

It's your comprehension skills that are called into question the most here.

Because that wasn't your only mistake.

Nowhere doe