Company Offers Disaster-Proof Storage For Records 210
Makarand writes "The Atlanta Journal-Constitution is reporting that a Utah company,
Perpetual Storage, is
offering
disaster-proof commercial storage space
deep inside a granite mountain
for companies looking to store their most important records.
The company claims that their vaults are protected
and safe from "any force known to man", including a nuclear blast.
The vaults have gained popularity
recently after hospitals, government agencies and universities have started using them to keep
their computer records safe."
Well great! (Score:2, Funny)
Do we want to keep data that badly? (Score:4, Insightful)
Nuclear Winter? (Score:3, Interesting)
Identity Theft and Total Permanent Storage (Score:3, Insightful)
Permanent data storage means inability to correct the mistakes that are part of the storage record. With the epidemic of identity theft currently out of control, and the lack of standards concerning who collects data, what type of data, and its ultimate use, it is foolish and dangerous to permanently store what i
Re:Identity Theft and Total Permanent Storage (Score:2)
My, kneejerk much? Or perhaps just jerk.
Well, first of all, I don't consider something being "political" as thereby self-evidently evil, and secondly, please, kiddie boy, would you say that the only reasons to want to save, say, a music collection, are "political or commercial"?
Now, from the top, let's see you give me some examples of things that are important to you that *can't* be defined as containing an aspect that is "commercial
what if? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:what if? (Score:5, Funny)
The wise man doesn't rely on a single point of failure.
He uses a Redundant Array of Independent Mountains.
But first... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:what if? (Score:4, Funny)
I rely on tibetic quality work, though I heard that swiss alps aren't bad neither.
Re:what if? (Score:3, Interesting)
Who's a revisionist here? When I first read about RAIDs, everybody called the disks "independent" - because that's definitely what they are. And that didn't change for many years. Then some young whippersnappers with crappy IDE disks started referring to them as "inexpensive". I can hardly imagine why someone would call a RAID of U320 or FC disks "inexpensive"...
Re:what if? (Score:2)
I don't appreciate your name-calling, but you're factual right about this.
It still applies that this interpretation is no longer meaningful (and wasn't since quite a time now). Today we use expensive fast SCSI disks to build RAIDs for heavy multiuser access or we use inexpensive IDE disks to build RAIDs with high sustained transfer rates and capacities, serving few users. So the disks are not always inexpensive according to today's st
Re:what if? (Score:2, Informative)
Well, not as far-fetched as you might possibly think..
It happened before already..
For example check out this site: [italiaplease.com]
this is not really new... (Score:2, Informative)
Kinda waiting for a fire in my house... (Score:1)
For me, that kind of mountain would only guarantee I would never get "real free time"
Re:Kinda waiting for a fire in my house... (Score:2)
Any force known to man? (Score:5, Insightful)
Man knows some pretty awesome and irresistable forces, chief among them, in terms of data persistence, is Rose Mary Woods.
KFG
Re:Any force known to man? (Score:3, Funny)
That's all covered. Sue us, if we can't deliver... *smug grin*
Re:Any force known to man? (Score:2)
I can garentee against all that, except for shit that ends the universe. For a small fee, err large fee...okay, hork'n huge fee I'll encode your data in a special encrypted codec and beam it to the universe. Your data will travel accross the universe in the form of radio waves safe from any from of disaster that can end all life on Earth.
Note, prices does not garentee data recovery..
Re:Any force known to man? (Score:1)
Re:Any force known to man? (Score:2)
Re:Any force known to man? (Score:3, Funny)
fungus amongus (Score:2)
How about biological infection?
There's a well-known case where most of the tapes stored in one of these granite mountains were found to have been infected by a fungus that simply adored the tape medium- and rendered most of it unreadable.
This isn't anything new. These granite mountain dealies have been around since the 60's-70's..even earlier, actually- Hitler's V2 factory was entirely inside one of these mountains.
Re:Any force known to man? (Score:2)
Alternatively, in an open universe, what about the eventual heat death of the universe?
I hope their contract has provisions for these events.
Yes (Score:2)
Honest, if not you can get all your money back. Just give us a call.
Re:"Decent Sized Black Hole" (Score:2)
Actually - there is no lower-limit on the size of black holes. There probably is a lower-limit on the initial size of a black hole formed though ordinary means - such as stellar collapse (though I suppose if you could shoot two neutrons at each other with enough force you just might get them to form a mini-black-hole for a nanosec
Re:"Decent Sized Black Hole" (Score:2)
though I suppose if you could shoot two neutrons at each other with enough force you just might get them to form a mini-black-hole for a nanosecond
I believe that they plan to do exactly that at CERN when it comes online.
Re:"Decent Sized Black Hole" (Score:2)
There is something called Zero Point Energy which was once considered fringe science and many of the claims regarding it still are. However, it has been verified through experiment to exist. Google for info on the Casimir Effect for more info. Basically ZPE is a steady "foam" of subatomic particles that pop into and then back out of existence. It appears in pairs of particles with corresponding anti-pa
Who has the keys? (Score:5, Insightful)
But not including company employees.
Re:Who has the keys? (Score:2)
Or broken software. Quite a lot of distributed systems (including DNS servers) already failed because something or someone decided to replicate an empty database to all nodes.
(Seriously though, I hope they offer some kind of time warp feature for their file storage, so you should be able to get a previous version of your file.)
Yay (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Yay (Score:2)
Hmm (Score:5, Insightful)
"Disaster-proof" -> "Disaster-resistant"
"any force known to man" -> "most forces known to man, in reasonable amounts and not too close, and assuming no help from a disgruntled member of staff"
Whatever happened to truth in advertising?
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
Remember, it's not the ads that are lying but the reality.
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
Whatever happened to truth in advertising?
Likely the same thing that happened to "military intelligence", "living dead" and "jumbo shrimps".
maybe the redhead knows (Score:2)
I dunno. Maybe the redhead in those match.com ads knows.
Would this block an EMP? (Score:2, Insightful)
Just wondering.
Re:Would this block an EMP? (Score:2, Informative)
For blocking EMP you need a Faradays cage to trap incoming electromagnetic waves. However, the holes of the cage must be small enough to block the waves from getting in. That means that the holes can have at most one half of the wavelength in size. But the wavelength of electromagnetic waves depends on the energy. So with a nuclear (or even nuclear fission) blast you would have extremely low wavelengths in the gamma range. That means that your cage can have o
Re:Would this block an EMP? (Score:2)
But seriously, how much rock do you need before any radiation from a nuclear blast goes below our ability to even measure it (in any frequency)? I imagine that's not a lot, a few hundred meters perhaps, but ca
Re:Would this block an EMP? (Score:3, Interesting)
The EMP however is completely different, almost the opposite end of the scale. It isn't a wa
Re:Would this block an EMP? (Score:3, Funny)
Shine a bright light bulb towards a solar panel? It's probably easier to pay bubba to truck in diesel for a generator.
Re:Would this block an EMP? (Score:2)
Re:Would this block an EMP? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Would this block an EMP? (Score:2)
You're right - most ground-based or low altitude nuclear explosions have a symmetrical EMP flux, causing them to effectively cancel out. (Unless you happen to be within the blast radius, then you've got bigger problems)
A few high-altitude explosions over the pacific in the 60's
Re:Would this block an EMP? (Score:2)
Finally, a solution! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Finally, a solution! (Score:3, Funny)
Just hope that... (Score:3, Funny)
I'm not buying it that it's earthquake-proof (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:I'm not buying it that it's earthquake-proof (Score:5, Informative)
Granite forms at depth in the crust, not in volcanos. It is typically indicative of igneous activity a long time ago -- sometimes billions of years. Its presence is not any kind of indicator of potential for volcanic activity.
When it is exposed at the surface, it usually indicates there has been tectonic activity that moved it upwards. Again, may have happened a long time ago.
In the Salt Lake, there is extremely low potential for volccanic or other igneous activity. What Utah DOES have is a potential for strong seismic (earthquake) acitvity. How safe things are getting bounced around by a magnitude 7 is a matter of question. Would depend on how well engineered the structure is to isolate it from ground movement. Building structures on solid rock is more easily engineered that unconsolidated materials because there is no potential for liquifaction and the high-amplitude, low frequency surface waves (Lova, Rayleigh) are not much of a design factor.
Building inside a granite mountain is a pretty good choice for isolating a structure from seismic waves. Just requires a good isolation system.
Civilisation gone but emails are safe (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Civilisation gone but emails are safe (Score:2)
...or finding all the backups of the 'personal photos' that Susan from Accounts and the original poster took in the storage closet....
Old news? (Score:5, Funny)
For when your uber sensitive business data must get to the super secure storage facility safely... trust USPS and remember, pack well.
distribitued storage (Score:1)
Re:distribitued storage (Score:2)
American companies feel much safer when their data is being stored in the United States. A lot of this information is sensitive- not just the 'I want to pass it on to my children' stuff.
These companies don't want to store it in a country where something like a coup is possible. Then the local population may
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, but.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Safe from what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, while the mountain may protect your stuff from any kind of physical catastrophe like meteors or mad bombers, it will do nothing to protect it from frothing lawyers and government agents (SCO, RIAA, BATF or whatever) or plain old industrial spies with briefcases full of cash, seeking access to the stuff from the people who run the facility. The perils of putting your goodies in someone else's care in a publicly known location are the same as those of storing your backups on someone else's computer over the net (and the obviousness of that peril is one reason why the net-backup business didn't do so well).
If you want to keep something really safe, protect it well and don't tell anyone where it is. Also, if all you're trying to protect is data, rather than physical artifacts, you're better off replicating it all over the place than trying to bomb-proof it at a single site.
Re:Safe from what? (Score:2, Insightful)
Security by obscurity ain't gonna work. What happened to some good old fashioned "encrypt the data on the tapes, and keep copies in several relatively safe locations"?
Re:Safe from what? (Score:2)
Re:Safe from what? (Score:2)
That only works if it's just data that you're trying to protect. If it's the company's shrunken head collection, you can't manage it that way.
Iron Mountain (Score:2)
This would offer the benefit of some magnetic shielding, from an EMP pulse.
For most companies, a single tape cartridge, or other removable media (cdrom, dvd-rom) will hold the most critical data, and fits just fine in a safety deposit box, at the bank. Or if your not that paranoid, in a box under the CEO's bed.
Ummmm (Score:2)
I dunno.... (Score:3, Interesting)
In all seriousness, though they seem to have an open mind regarding material allowed to be stored, they substantially limit their potential market. For instance, "To eliminate fire risk, the company won't store paper or anything that might burn." I suppose this makes sense. But then they start turning down precious metals (and by that logic, stones such as diamonds and valuable jewelry), refusing to store cryogenically frozen human cells.
Additionally, I have to wonder about the security of the place. It only has about ten employees, which would put suspects on a short list, but at the same time gives the mountain comparatively little protection from outside attackers. Furthermore, the excavation was done only thirty or so years ago, so it hasn't yet stood the test of time. Not long ago, they completed some more major construction adding second and third floor mezanines...I have to wonder as to whether or not any of this has affected the structural integrity and to what extent. Of course, the southwest isn't exactly the most stable region either...earthquakes are many.
But let's put all of that aside for a moment. We have a company that has its eyes on the future!
Merry Christmas,
Scott
><>
Talk to $cientology about vaults (Score:3, Funny)
Old news (Score:2)
Iron Mountain has come a long way since the 50's, when a depleted iron ore mine in upstate New York was converted to the United States' first secure underground records storage center designed to protect corporate vital records in the event of a nuclear holocaust.
What about hackers? (Score:2)
Granite is not the solution (Score:2, Insightful)
Many CIOs in the IT industry simply don't understand the need or purpose of IT. That's why some organizations have CIOs find it acceptable to "rarely lose records", or to have "occational network out
Re:Granite is not the solution (Score:2)
Because only two things will survive a major nuclear war: Cockroaches and lawyers.
If a hospital doesn't protect its medical records, they'll be sued into oblivian for malpractice by some guy with three eyes and four legs who insists that it was a surgical error rather than the 10,000 REMs he's absorbed that caused the problem.
Right.. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Right.. (Score:2)
They said the storage space was disaster proof - that doesn't imply that you can get the stuff back out.
Sturdy site (Score:2, Informative)
Checking the record:
Seems good for at least 2.5 years.
Any force known to man? (Score:4, Funny)
They need to update their physics textbook. Modern forces at work include Bureaucracy, Incompetence and Government.
I'll bet any one of those three could breach this fortress ...
Mutant 59 will do ... (Score:3, Interesting)
See Pedler, K. & Davis, G.
The Viking Press, New York, 1972;
Mutant 59: The Plastic Eaters [amazon.com]
Or some nanobots wreaking havoc for the more hardware type of things.
CC.
Um? (Score:2, Funny)
Good ol' Americans. Always thinking with their greed, er lust for power, er... American dream...
one of us. one of us. one of us.
Tom
Somehow... (Score:2, Insightful)
I think Schneier makes a special point in Beyond Fear that extreme terms like "absolute security" and "any force known to man" don't even make sense in a security situation. They are only used by people who don't understand security in the first place!
Social Engineering (Score:2)
Hidden right here in Slashdot (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Hidden right here in Slashdot (Score:2)
Re:Hidden right here in Slashdot (Score:2)
Very, Very long term. (Score:4, Insightful)
I can't believe some of the idiots responding to this saying "this is useless because it doesn't allow restore in near-real-time".
At the other end of the sepctrum is the idiot who is worried about volcanoes in Little Cottonwood Canyon. Please people, get a clue before posting.
Re:Very, Very long term. (Score:2)
OTOH (Score:2)
really.
Now, where do I sign up so I can have a backup of my game files?
If it were that important... (Score:2, Funny)
storage for records (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The weakest link is (Score:2)
Great News (Score:2, Funny)
Naturally, this has been a great problem for my anscestors, with looters and archaeog
any force known to man (Score:2)
I know of these:
Strong currency (Score:2)
Bombproof web hosting (Score:2)
Further explanation needed (Score:2, Funny)
Then a big disaster happens and me and everyone in my company dies.
At that point our disaster recovery options are as follows:
1) an alien life form to arrive on earth, rescue the data from the inside of a granite canyon, and decide to stay and run our business
2) a primitive life form on earth that was strong enough to withstand the big natural disaster, evolves over millions
Re: (Score:2)
Safe from the RIAA? (Score:2)
Perhaps i can safely store my MP3's in there...
Beer bottles, anyone? (Score:2)
Re:Great! (Score:1)
Our demise as a race is inevitable. It will come either in the form of a suicide (nuclear war, man-made pandemic etc.), natural disaster (supervolcano, asteroid, getting hit by a deep-space gamma-ray burst) or evolution.
What's important is that our knowledge survives.
Re:Great! (Score:1)
Personally, I'm waiting for the heat death of the Universe, although I'd like to meet the four horsemen at some stage.
Re:Great! (Score:1, Funny)
Yeah, I had a coworker who did the same - all day long...
Re:Great! (Score:1)
The point is this is a profit driven idea for profit driven companies, although it would be interesting to see the colonels secret sauce recipe I am quite sure after nuclear holocaust I wouldnt be thinking about a family bucket meal.
Re:Intergenerational (Score:3, Funny)
Or even more sophisticated: you could encode your DNA in such a way that the message shows up as a tatoo on the buttoms of your descendants.
Re:Intergenerational (Score:2)
(for those who think it is more like 20,000- please think harder)
All my original numbers are round, except for the '1'.