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Interview With a Spammer 429

Posted by michael from the need-a-wooden-stake dept.
Shipud writes "The NYTimes interviewed Richard Colbert, under the title of 'Confessions of a SPAM King'. Richard talks about one-time credit cards, WiFi, 'good' vs. 'bad' spam and more."
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Interview With a Spammer More

Interview With a Spammer

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  • All I want to know is. . . (Score:5, Funny)

    by kfg ( 145172 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @11:56AM (#7072566)
    can I harvest his email address from the article?

    KFG

  • Eh? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Garrett Combs ( 699749 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @11:57AM (#7072567) Homepage
    "good spam vs. bad spam" Hrm... Is there such a thing?

    • Re:Eh? (Score:2, Funny)

      by Brainboy ( 310252 )
      Well if you leave an open can of spam out, it can go bad. Oh wait... wrong kind of spam.

    • Re:Eh? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:56PM (#7072929)
      Well in the article he states it this way.

      Good Spam. With Proper from line and workable remove links that actually remove your list and not used to verify your address.

      Bad Spam. With altered from addresses bounced from every open relay on the planet to hide it origin. Remove links that are broken or use it as a method of verification.

      Although I think all Spam is bad. I would focus my energy to getting all Spammers to get the "Good Spam" type first. That is why I forward all my Spam to uce@ftc.gov. That way the Federal Trade Commission checks the legality of their Spam. Usually when it is "Bad Spam" the FTC will go after them. After forwarding all my Spam to use@ftc.gov after many years there has a been a decrease in Spam. When I first got my current email address I had 3 or 4 Spams a day. Now I get 1 or 2 a month. Plus I know at least one of the Major Spammers has gotten hit with the FTC. Which was the Married but Single site. Which was Bad Spam because they Hid their identity their remove was a bad false link. And bounced over a variety of open relays. After I heard that the FTC went after them their Spam magically stopped.

      If it is "Good Spam" I can normally handle that much easier without much effort. I just hit my Bounce to Sender feature on my email client and then I send them back a standard bounce-back message saying that my address doesn't exist thus making them take me off the list to save their bandwidth. Or if they are really annoying me I find the contact of the site can call them up by telephone telling them to stop. And most of the time they will be polite about it because they are sending "Good Spam" they have some morals and will follow my request.

      So "Good Spam" is Spam that you can easily get off of, and often done by people and companies that don't realize the spam problem, or from Pointy Hair Bosses who don't think it is a problem because their Sysadmins did a good job to blocking them so when one or two gets in they think it is novel Idea.
      "Bad Spam" has SCAM written all over it. Where it is just bad news all around.

    • Re:Eh? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by MrLint ( 519792 )
      Reminds me of the AOL for broadband commercial "Blocks unwanted spam"

      I was unaware that were was 'wanted' spam. Perhaps just wanted spammers, Dead or alive.

  • Spamming must be lucrative (Score:5, Funny)

    by l810c ( 551591 ) * on Saturday September 27, 2003 @11:57AM (#7072568)
    He lights up a Monarch menthol as he shows me his computer room, an intimate homemade space built off the side of an aging two-tone mobile home -- robin's-egg blue and white -- which sits among hundreds of Airstreams and Miami Deco single-wides in the Sunset Colony Mobile Home Park in Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

    What a life!

  • Finally, confirmed. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Faust7 ( 314817 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @11:59AM (#7072586) Homepage
    When an "out of the office" auto-reply comes back on one e-mail message, Colbert says: "Oh, we love those. They confirm that the address is active."

    This should put to rest any remaining doubts about whether or not "unsubscribing" from spam lists actually works.

  • Obligitory link... (Score:5, Informative)

    by dnaboy ( 569188 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:00PM (#7072592)
    The obligitory link to the New york times random login generator [majcher.com] for those who don't feel the desire to identify yourself (or bother to create a clever alter ego).

    These days you actually have to downlad the java script to your computer, because of those clever NYT people, but it's still possible for those who have personal issues with registrations....

    • The Internet, AP
      Computer hacking site Slashdot posts instructions for breaking into New York Times Online Website.

  • 'good' vs 'bad' spam (Score:5, Funny)

    by Kjella ( 173770 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:01PM (#7072600) Homepage
    The spammers' definition:
    Good: The spam I send and make me money
    Bad: All that junk that fills up my inbox

    Kjella
  • I misread this as Stephen Colbert, of The Daily Show fame. Luckily this is not the case.
  • The reporter in the course of his interview steals a piece of shareware with spammer. Then he goes out harvesting email addresses

    I don't care what you think about spam but in that interview its real obvious who is conducting the interview and its not the reporter.

    • Re:Why I love the times (Score:5, Interesting)

      by 1u3hr ( 530656 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:27PM (#7072758)
      Note at the end of the article:
      He points under his desk to a recent arrival, a second hard drive, precisely what he would need to begin a new network.

      ''It's a Dell Pentium 233,'' he says. ''I got it for $15, plus $23.95 shipping.''

      The reporter seems unable to distinguish between a "hard drive" and an entire computer; one wonders if his grasp of other details is as weak.
      • The reporter seems unable to distinguish between a "hard drive" and an entire computer; one wonders if his grasp of other details is as weak.

        C'mon...just because the reporter isn't up to snuff on computers, doesn't mean they can't write. I hear this all the time from our users at work. It's almost accepted among the non-tech folk.

        Ever had a non-technical user read you a spec sheet for a new computer?


        • The NYTimes is supposed to represent quality reporting, but with the made up stories and inept reporters, I'd put more faith in a random AC posting here. Why would the NYTimes send a person without adequate background to do this story?

          If the news is to be reliable at all, then the only way to get accurate reporting is to have knowledgeable people asking the questions - otherwise, as the above poster mentioned, the person being interviewed controls the interview and turns it into a personal advertisement.

        • Re:Why I love the times (Score:5, Insightful)

          by John Miles ( 108215 ) * on Saturday September 27, 2003 @01:14PM (#7073024) Homepage Journal
          C'mon...just because the reporter isn't up to snuff on computers, doesn't mean they can't write. I hear this all the time from our users at work. It's almost accepted among the non-tech folk.

          So what you're saying is that I'm supposed to decide what companies to invest in, whether or not to support various wars, which of several political candidates to vote for, and whether to take an umbrella to work tomorrow based on journalism of this quality?

          Here's a question for the NYT apologists: if their reporters don't give a shit about accuracy in matters you can call them on, what makes you think their reporting is worth anything on other, more important topics?

  • Auto-reply (Score:3, Interesting)

    by John Seminal ( 698722 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:06PM (#7072637) Journal
    The software monitors which e-mails are returned and tabulates their status. When an ''out of the office'' auto-reply comes back on one e-mail message, Colbert says: ''Oh, we love those. They confirm that the address is active.'' Within six minutes, on a single computer, running through a regular phone line, I have fired off 1,000 e-mail messages.

    This sucks, for a spammer to take a tool that we use for work, and find a way to misuse it.

    Is there any way to set auto-reply's to only send notices to emails on a specific domain, and not respond to any others?

  • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • These days, it is cool to be destructive. There used to be this thing called "morality," which is totally and completely out of style. Few are raised today with any regard for others, but instead, their self-centeredness is encouraged. Now, the attitude is, if you don't have to look 'em in the eye, take 'em for all they got.

    • ...why do so many people choose to create destructive and malicious programs instead of harvesting the glory that can be had when a really good app is written?

      A good question, and a hard one to come up with a definite answer to. Part of the answer, I suspect, is that it is much easier and faster to be a spammer or write a virus (the term 'skript-kiddy' come to mind) than to actually sit down, learn to program, identify a problem, write a good app to retify it and distrebute it... and since people probal

    • What the heck are you talking about? There is no glory or money in writing a really good app.

      I find that most Virus writers have the skills and have no job. If they were employeed they wouldn't be writing viruses for fear of loosing their job. A steady paycheck trumps ego boost most of the time.
    • I tend to rank these people just as low on the societal ladder as those who write virii
      [sic]

      As a group, they're the same. Sobig was designed for relaying spam (among other things). Spammers are conducting DDOS attacks, successfully I might add, against blacklist sites.

  • "a second hard drive"? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by way2trivial ( 601132 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:07PM (#7072641) Homepage Journal
    Yes, the sent a reporter who refers to the computer itself as "the hard drive", Nice solid reporting.

    • Re:"a second hard drive"? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by KillerHamster ( 645942 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:18PM (#7072709) Homepage

      "...the nine hard drives bound together with a superfast connection speed..."

      Man, I wish I had a RAID setup like that!

    • The "Dell Pentium 233" was a solid *hard drive*, as I recall. They just don't make 'em like that anymore.
    • If you have asked the person on the other end of the phone to power off the computer, then power it back on, and they report that they see "the same thing" and you know that the computer has not had time to reboot, suggest that they turn off the "hard drive box". If they seem confused, point out that there is a box, possibly on the floor where they put their music CDs, or their floppy disks, that's what you want them to power off and back on.

  • Oh. Crap. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by CGP314 ( 672613 ) <CGP@NOSpAM.ColinGregoryPalmer.net> on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:08PM (#7072644) Homepage
    More recently, spammers have figured out how to send unwanted text messages to cellphones

    I've never endorsed vigilante action against spammers, but the instant I get a text message on my phone from a Nigerian businessman, I'm changing my mind. With my computer, I can run programs like popfile [sourceforge.net] to stop the spam, but with a cell phone, there is nothing I can do.
    • Too late for me. I've received two.

      Nextel really needs to get on the ball and replace the old NNNXXXYYYY@messaging.nextel.com system with user-selectable-arbitrary-64-char-string@messaging .nextel.com (on request of course).
    • A couple of months ago I got a call on my cellphone from the AT&T-run deaf relay service, which has expanded from relaying TDDs to relaying from some Internet interface (I think web?). It was, as near as I could tell, a Nigerian scammer. It was obviously not an American, because they were calling me on a Sunday evening on Memorial Day weekend to talk about a business opportunity, and I asked what time zone they were in and it was compatible with being daytime in Nigeria... I asked the operator if sh

    • Think yourself lucky (Score:4, Interesting)

      by IIH ( 33751 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @06:05PM (#7074474)
      I've never endorsed vigilante action against spammers, but the instant I get a text message on my phone from a Nigerian businessman, I'm changing my mind.

      I've lost track of the junk text messages I've got, advertising free holidays, premimum rate lines, and the latest one this morning was from a phone number "important" telling me to go to a certain url for a surpise prize.

      Unfortunatly, I live in the UK, where despite this being illegal (my cell phone is registered with TPS), trying to get these people fined, never mind shut down, is next to impossible. Hell, I can't even find what company sent it to lodge the iniital complaint!

      As an aside, does anyone know if you can get any info from your phone provider on thses "anonymous" text messages, Also, can you do a reverse lookup on premium rate lines? (I know if you register a PO box, your information must be available, is the same for premium rate lines?)

  • It never ceases to amaze me what people will do for a buck. Every piece of crap thing that happens in the world is thanks to the monetary system. Maybe what they need to do is make it impossible for spammers to make any sort of money. I don't think it'll ever be possible, but if those jerks couldn't make money off what they were doing, they would never ever do it. Spam would come to a complete halt.

  • An Address ;) (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Ceadda ( 625501 )
    Thought about this for about 30 seconds, checked, and, what do you know :) I bet if enough of us had a bit of fun signing up catalogs and free brochures, and phone calls for more information to. Richard Colbert. Sunset Colony MH Park 2400 W Broward Blvd Fort Lauderdale 954-583-8602 The mobile home park might get pissed and kick him out? This is the park's address and phone, not his. ;) so extra annoying for them :)
  • I'd like to see a beowulf cluster of those [trainweb.org] dropped on this guy's 'nads.

  • I've gotta hand it to this guy... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by rwven ( 663186 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:11PM (#7072660)
    LOL, i got a few good laughs out of his story. one of my favorite parts:

    '"I was thrown off more BellSouth accounts than half the state of Florida,'' Colbert says. His name was known, and he was a marked and wanted man. But he found a way around the heat. ''Do you remember when American Express came out with temporary credit cards?'' he recalls happily. ''You could go to the 7-11 convenience store and buy a $25 credit card -- sort of like you buy a $25 phone card, only it was good for just $25 worth of credit."

    Armed with a dozen of these cards, Colbert would go to the BellSouth Web site and create numerous e-mail accounts from which to send spam, each account with a fictitious name and address. Since the credit card couldn't be connected to him in any way, he could spam away until BellSouth finally got around to canceling that particular account. ''They were great, totally untraceable,'' he says of the credit cards. ''They don't sell them anymore. I think it's because of me.'' '

    pretty smart feller ;)

    • Re:I've gotta hand it to this guy... (Score:4, Funny)

      by KC7GR ( 473279 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:49PM (#7072889) Homepage Journal
      Smart? Yeah, sure... 'Smart' like the petty criminal he really is.

      Spammers, as a rule, either have zero concept of private property rights, or they (like telemarketers) think they have some mysterious "right" to (ab)use their intended recipient's E-mail boxes.

      If this creepoid is so smart, and making so many $$, why is he living in a dilapidated mobile home in the middle of a Florida trailer park?

      • think they have some mysterious "right" to (ab)use their intended recipient's E-mail boxes.

        Unfortunately, THEY DO. It's called Free Speech. Bill of Rights, at the top.

        I hate spammers too, I really do, but which is worse - a few more junk mails, or yet another restriction set up on our supposedly unrestricted speech? One which, I would add, would simply cause spamming to move overseas entirely and continued undeterred - while we still have a bit less freedom in the name of accomplishing nothing.

        Thin

        • Corporate entities do not constitue persons, and therefore are not entitled to any "rights" per se. Do a quick google on "corporate personhood" for more info on the issue.

          Likewise, commercial speech is not consider speech proper, and is also not covered. For example, I may be legally be able to lie to you (though not in court or any legally binding contract), but I cannot misrepresent a product in an advertisement. Of course, companies like to push the "misrepresentation" vs "misinterpretation" issue b

          • Corporate entities do not constitue persons, and therefore are not entitled to any "rights" per se. Do a quick google on "corporate personhood" for more info on the issue.

            Just to let you know, I didn't even bother reading the rest of your post after that. Stick your head in the ground if you like, it sucks, but Corporations ARE afforded all rights of personhood, and have since the late 1800s. And there are innumerable Supreme Court cases backing this up.

            Trying to claim otherwise based on strict wording

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • Repeat after me:

          Pushing ads I did not ask for is not free speech.

          I'm sick and tired of this mindset. Do you work for the Direct Marketers Association, perchance?

        • Spam is NOT free speech (Score:5, Informative)

          by frankie ( 91710 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @02:50PM (#7073550) Journal
          It's called Free Speech. Bill of Rights

          Not according to Warren Burger, Chief Justice, SCOTUS, May 4, 1970 [findlaw.com]:

          "Nothing in the Constitution compels us to listen to or view any unwanted communication, whatever its merit"
          "We therefore categorically reject the argument that a vendor has a right under the Constitution or otherwise to send unwanted material into the home of another. If this prohibition operates to impede the flow of even valid ideas, the answer is that no one has a right to press even 'good' ideas on an unwilling recipient. That we are often 'captives' outside the sanctuary of the home and subject to objectionable speech and other sound does not mean we must be captives everywhere.
          The asserted right of a mailer, we repeat, stops at the outer boundary of every person's domain."

  • spam would stop tomorrow if... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by professorhojo ( 686761 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:12PM (#7072662)
    ...people stopped buying their crap.

    i mean -- who the HELL buys penis enlargements, weight loss drugs and college diplomas from these sites? obviously -- too many of us.

    prof.

  • Compare two statements.... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by John Seminal ( 698722 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:14PM (#7072678) Journal
    ''That's not fraud,'' he said. ''If it was fraud, the company wouldn't make any money.'' When I tried to pursue this suddenly slippery definition of fraud, he quickly added, defensively, ''The only sex product I sell is the penis-enlargement pill.''

    and...

    Back in Colbert's mobile home, I ask my spammer guru if he is feeling nervous, now that Congress is in the market for a few high-profile public hangings. Doesn't he fear that Orson Swindle might soon have him in an orange jumpsuit and shackles, doing a prime-time perp walk? ''Congress is full of idiots,'' he notes succinctly. Colbert says he doesn't believe that a strategy of going after a few kingpins will accomplish anything. Politicians will gain some publicity, but in the process, he argues, they will drive smaller operators further underground. ''Spammers will just use even more deceptive practices to keep from getting shut down,'' he says.

    This guy is an idiot. That is the problem with the USA, anyone will do anything for money. There is no ethics at all. It is all self justificating.

  • isnt' this interesting... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Lord_Slepnir ( 585350 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:15PM (#7072684) Journal
    An NYTimes.com member account already exists for fuckyounyt@fuckyounyt.com. If this is your e-mail address, click here to retrieve your password. Otherwise, enter your correct e-mail address and click below to register.

    I should be surprised, but somehow i'm not....

  • Helpless? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by dougmc ( 70836 ) <dougmc+slashdot@frenzied.us> on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:24PM (#7072745) Homepage
    (A good method for avoiding spam, then, is to always type your e-mail address on the Web this way: Arnie at hotmail.com or ArnieREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com. Humans can look at either and figure out what to do; software -- so far -- is helpless.)
    Helpless? I don't buy that for a minute.

    With perl, in 15 minutes I can make a program that automatically (and correctly) de-spamproofs about 90% of the spamproofed addresses out there. In another hour I can probably get another 5%. The remaining 5% are a lot harder, but they can easily be ignored. (Of course, many humans (think of grandma) have a hard time deciphering much of that remaining 5% as well.)

    Spammers are stupid, yes, but when there's money on the line, they can certainly figure out simple things like this, or if not, they can pay somebody else to figure them out for them. True `hackers' may have their scruples, and may hate spam, but if they're out of a job and a spammer offers them $1000 for an hour's work ... guess what's gonna happen?

    I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet, but just wait -- those who use user@NOSPAMdomain.com are going to find their `spamproofed' addresses getting more and more spam.

    • address@remuve_ths_and_ths.host.com
      my guess is the most software won't get than one.

    • Re:Helpless? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by dubiousmike ( 558126 )
      one of my best friends, the guy who got me into Linux, PHP, MYSQL, now does side work for one of the big spammers. If the email you get sent gets bounced back to them, they automatically take you off their list. The feature found in some email clients that lets you bounce the email back AFTER reading it, is one of the best ways to get yourself removed from lists.

      I personally got a separate domain JUST for email. Every time I have to enter my email address somewhere new, I would submit site_name.specific
    • "A good method for avoiding spam, then, is to always type your e-mail address on the Web this way: Arnie at hotmail.com or ArnieREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com. Humans can look at either and figure out what to do; software -- so far -- is helpless"

      Not tried emailing girls have you?

      "What's wrong with your email address? It's just come back as undeliverable or something"

      "What email address did you send it to?"

      "ewhite NOSPAM (at) yahoo.com"

  • All-time favorite interaction with a spammer (Score:4, Funny)

    by Kurt Gray ( 935 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:29PM (#7072770) Homepage Journal
    Everyone has their own favorite story about an interaction with a real live spammer, this is my personal favorite [wired.com] from the archives of Hot Wired's defunct Packet column, called "My Spammer Dream Date"
  • bad spam is spam, all spam is bad, because even if I block it, it costs me money in bandwidth costs. and my upstream provider.

    non annoying spam is spam that is caught by my block filters.

    good spam is spam that only gets sent to aol users. so i don't have to deal with it, filter it, pay for its transport accross my network, etc.

    better spam is spam that doesn't exist because the spammer realized what a dickhead he was and decided to get a real job where he doesn't make money by annoying the hell out of oth

  • Distributive justice (Score:5, Insightful)

    by wytcld ( 179112 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:34PM (#7072797) Homepage
    But the distributive-justice approach is all but dead in Congress, at least in part because of the Republicans' deep antipathy for trial lawyers.

    If we empowered individuals to sue spammers, then trial lawyers would make money, so it is bad. Ours is a system of laws, but setting up laws so that individuals can hire lawyers to protect their health, property or privacy is bad, because any lawyer who would profit by helping individuals in those causes is bad. Laws should only provide opportunities for corporations and corporate lawyers, never for individuals and the guns-for-hire they bring to the arena.

    Republicans ... beloved of Libertarians ... why?

  • Spamming doesn't pay (Score:4, Interesting)

    by mabu ( 178417 ) * on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:51PM (#7072903)
    This freak has a NOC in a mobile home. He buys his clothes off of ebay. Yea, more evidence of how lucrative spamming really is. That's another myth that needs to be busted: that spamming is profitable. It is not. Spammers can't build a successful business when the business is built around violating the law and stealing computer resources. The people that spam today are the same losers who would be running around slapping illegal signs up on telephone poles promoting Ponzi schemes.
    • He buys his clothes off of ebay. Yea, more evidence of how lucrative spamming really is.

      Any businessman who throws away profit needlessly is a fool who does not deserve profit.

      Any businessman who uses any advantage he can find to lower his business expenses will see greater profit.

      ...

      If you're going to hate, come up with a decent reason. Posts like that do nothing to enhance your intellectual standing.

  • Does God hate spammers? (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    If that trailer park the guy is living in gets leveled by a tornado, we'll know.

  • Harness Daytime TV for the powers of good (Score:3, Interesting)

    by MattGWU ( 86623 ) * on Saturday September 27, 2003 @01:09PM (#7072994)
    One thing that I've always wondered is why no groups have embarked on a public education campaign against spam? These days, there are public service announcements for everything. How much could a 20 second spot between a Metamucil ad and a personal injury lawyer be during some Judge Shrill Crackpot at 2:30 on a Tuesday?

    Hit the bootleg Viagra and weight loss crowd where they live: glued to their couches during prime soap and talk time when the rest of us are at work.

    The only question is how long would 'the industry' sit on their laurls while we badmouth their fine, economy-stimulating trade. Do Not Call List, the fine folks at the DMA, and Federal judges, I'm looking in your direction.

    Food for thought. I'm not sure who would be producing these ads, but I'd kick them some money...

  • Absolutely Disgusting... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Lobsang ( 255003 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @02:06PM (#7073307) Homepage
    It amazes me how these degenerates get space in the NY Times and other important matters just don't get covered at all. The guy is an unscrupulous SOB who is willing to harass 1 million people for a meager $900.

    His home is not that far from mine. I think we should get a bunch of slashdotters and go there break his legs, which, in my lingo, is called "mass beating". :))
  • I was hoping to read a little more about the WiFi quip. I'm assuming that the notion of a "drive-by spamming" has evolved to a reality.

    I can't wait until I see the first 1975 rusted-out Chevy van festooned with soup, floppy disk and pringles can antennas galore, cabin lit by the pale glow of an LCD, go creeping through the neigborhood.

    Oh great, I just realized something else. All the telcos and cable co's will finally be able to have their congressional butt-pupets legislate all of we pesky home WiFi us

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