Inkblot Passwords 590
TechnoPope writes "Microsoft Research a new way to get users to not only develop, but remember more secure passwords can be achieved through using inkblots. Because of how the human brain works, you can show the same pictures to different people and almost always come up with different passwords. What's even crazier, is that people generally are able to remember the complex passwords. Sounds like a major breakthrough in security."
So What did people get? (Score:5, Funny)
butterfly swimmer
recycle logo
WWE Smackdown Enterance
Helping Hands
Evil Eyes
Person Gasping
Turtle man
Boys Spitting
Batman fighting
Batman flying
with an end password of brrowehsespgtnbgbgbg
Hmm, maybe i shouldn't of shared that. This seems to be a really cool system. I look forward to MS adding it to passport!
Re:So What did people get? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:So What did people get? (Score:3, Funny)
Strangest ink blot I've ever seen.
Re:So What did people get? (Score:5, Funny)
I kept hitting F5 until it loaded. If it were anyone but MS I'd have given up to relieve server load.
I got: (Score:2)
There are too many connected users. Please try again later.
Just so long as your current password... (Score:2)
Man. These things really do offer interesting insights into the psyche.
*honk*
Cappy "not anonymous, but cowardly enough not to write out what he sees" Red
Re:So What did people get? (Score:2)
Advanced Login methods (Score:3, Funny)
I mean:
1 - Computer displays inkblot
2 - User begins to laugh
3 - login
4 - PROFIT!!!
Re:So What did people get? (Score:5, Funny)
Dead dogs
Mother eating dead dog
Dead dogs
Dead mother
Dog...dead
Mother killed by dog
Dying dog eating dead dog
Mother giving birth to dead dog
Death
I'm afraid... (Score:3, Funny)
Posted anonymously, because I'm sure I'm going to hell for this as it is....
Re:So What did people get? (Score:4, Interesting)
(2) A gorilla in sweats doing a split
(3) Someone eating coffee grounds from a filter with chopsticks
(4) Feet of a reclining person
(5) Two ice cream cones
(6) A headless woman
(7) A frog in an apron (According to the article everyone thinks it's a flying person!)
(8) Snapping fingers
(9) Batman peeing
(10)Batman vomiting
I conclude that your a healthier person than I am...
THAT'S NOT IT AT ALL! (Score:4, Funny)
(2) An inkblot
(3) An inkblot
(4) An inkblot
(5) An inkblot
(6) An inkblot
(7) An inkblot
(8) An inkblot
(9) An inkblot
(10) Standing in sort of sun-god robes on a pyramid with thousands of naked women screaming and throwing little pickles.
So the correct password is atatatatatatatatatss
Re:So What did people get? (Score:4, Funny)
Just an inkblot
Just an inkblot
Just an inkblot
You're fired (Score:3, Funny)
Re:So What did people get? (Score:5, Funny)
2- Christian Slater
3- Obviously Goatse, folks
4- Oak leaf
5- Trent Reznor
6- Edmonton, Canada
7- Letter label
8- Yugos
9- Ultramagnetic MC
10- Keylogs
So I guess MiCrOsOfTrEaLlYsUcKs then.
Re:So What did people get? (Score:3, Funny)
Hmmm, now that you mention it, #8 reminds me of the Blue Meanies (are they the right ones? Maybe it's a different one) from Yellow Submarine.
See the example images (Score:5, Funny)
Actually thats the recommended approach (Score:5, Interesting)
though your post was meant to be humorous it also jibes with convention security wisdom for recalling strong passwords.
I forget who it was that said it, but a widely recomended strategy for strong passwords is to think of a shockingly graphic sexual phrase then use the first letters.
The vividness and the link to sexual activity makes it memorable (at least in males). And also its not likely to be a phase you would blurt out or something anyone cold easily guess about you. e.g. "take this job and shove it" would NOT be a good pass phrase because its something that might well be an expression you would use in your writings or speech.
Oh and by the way that's actually me in the batman costume doing your wife. or Ge
Re:Actually thats the recommended approach (Score:4, Interesting)
"When shall we three meet again, in thunder, lightning, or rain?"
Becomes
Wsw3ma-itlor
You have capital letter, number, and punctuation symbol.
Time for a new password? Flip to another passage.
Structural regularity leads to easy line of attack (Score:3, Interesting)
wnslwetemtanintrlgorrn
Which points up a flaw in the system that a previous poster alluded to, namely, that you end up with only alphanumeric character passwords, so a cracker program would only need to run permutations of first/last letter pairs from a dictionary to crack these passwords.
Moreover, there are undoubtedly some first/last letter combinations that are more common than others in english, even f
Van Wilder guy... (Score:5, Funny)
Random man (being shown an ink blot picture): "DUDE! It's a guy... and he's giving a circumcision... to HIMSELF!"
How exactly would his password turn out?
Re:Van Wilder guy... (Score:3, Interesting)
What would happen (Score:5, Funny)
User1: It's Natalie Portman, i mean look at those curves . .
User2: Beowulf cluster of Linux boxen!
User3: Its the dead body of Steven King.
User4: Hot Grits . . . definately .
User5: In Soviet Russia, the inkblots analyze you!
Think I covered them all
Re:What would happen (Score:5, Funny)
1.Inkblot
2.????? (Unknown mechanism in brain to determine password)
3.Password!
Re:What would happen (Score:4, Funny)
User6: It's the goats guy.
User7: Tubgirl
User8: It's a picture of *BSD dying
User9: ummm...that would be *GNU*/inkblot
UserA: errr...that one's a Mac G4, that's Mac G5, iMac, TiBook, alBook, it's the OS X logo...
UserB: that's a server getting slashdotted!
Re:What would happen (Score:5, Funny)
But Now I have the strangest urge to go buy
Windows XP....
Can't be!!! (Score:5, Funny)
I can't figure out which is more incredible - that, or the fact that the story got told here...
its not orginal (Score:3, Interesting)
Not even that good an idea. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Can't be!!! (Score:3, Funny)
Well... (Score:5, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
Ink blots? (Score:5, Funny)
They'll make a total mess of
Microsoft Research? (Score:2)
Microsoft Security
Microsoft Innovations
Military Intelligence
McDonald's Restaurant
American Democracy
Land of the Free, Home of the Brave
everything just feels like rain
Re:Microsoft Research? (Score:5, Insightful)
Ah for Plato's republic of philosopher kings... of course, it didn't really work out on the Simpsons...
Re:Microsoft Research? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Microsoft Research? (Score:3, Insightful)
So every disgruntled nerd in the world can take potshots at your idea, just because it came from Microsoft?
I think not.
Re:Microsoft Research? (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, but on the other side of the coin, bright people and their great ideas don't necessarily deserve to be made into a product.
Before everyone jumps down my throat, all I mean is that a bright idea, something that can be made to work, that's cool, that 'egg' head people like (speaking as atleast a quasiegg head myself), don't
Re:Microsoft Research? (Score:2)
"Everything just feels like rain" - Billy Corgan, Zwan
It's a Freudian thing... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:It's a Freudian thing... (Score:5, Funny)
Check your password files (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Check your password files (Score:4, Funny)
(RTFA, if you don't understand...
-Jellisky
Re:Check your password files (Score:2)
The password 'inkblot' has just debuted in the top ten and is climbing fast.
'Rorschach' would be a better password, but people can never remember how to spell it.
Re:Check your password files (Score:5, Funny)
I prefer 'Pavlov' personally. For some reason it rings a bell...
I already use this.. (Score:5, Funny)
MyMother.
Mom.
MyMother.
Momagain.
and
MyM
More classic sentence structure (Score:5, Funny)
"Microsoft Research a new way to get users to not only develop, but remember more secure passwords can be achieved through using inkblots."
Makes one want to weep really.
How many poosible combinations could there be? (Score:4, Funny)
Inky
Blotty
inkblotty
inkyblot
I bet there's not too many of these. Put 'em in a wordlist, and, bang!, you're a hacker!
build a better inkblot (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:build a better inkblot (Score:3, Informative)
Re:build a better inkblot (Score:4, Funny)
Re:build a better inkblot (Score:3, Funny)
You and everyone else are missing the intent of all this. It is obvious that this "inkblot technology" will never be used to develop and remember passwords.
I am pretty sure now that the reason these inkblots look similar is because all of them are derivatives of the upcoming official Longhorn Logo. MS is playing subliminal m
Cut out some stuff and... (Score:2)
Sounds like a major break-in in security to me!
Random Letters (Score:4, Insightful)
I think I can make it out.... (Score:2)
mirror (Score:2)
They are all obvious (Score:5, Funny)
Dictionary attack now way too easy! (Score:3, Funny)
Sounds to me like this is tailor-made for dictionary attacks. The only letters you'll need to break into any
(Oh, crap, I'd better post AC or else I'll lose my squeaky-clean image!)
I liked faced passwords better (Score:5, Interesting)
I like the face password system. With this system you remember some faces, something we are very good at doing. Then you are shown tablets of faces, around 16 of them. Your face is among them and you click on it -- 4 bits of data. You do this several times to generate a strong enough password.
The really interesting aspect of this system is, unless you are a skilled police sketch artist, you can't tell other people your password. Even if they torture you, you can't reveal it. Many people will find themselves unable to even describe the faces in their set, they just know them when they see them.
You might be able to go to the terminal and sketch or digitally photograph your faces to tell somebody else, but if this is used as an access control system, for example, with a guard watching you as you enter your code, it's hard to do. Thus the military is interested in such systems. But even if you don't care about the no-torture feature, you can generate memorable passwords that use an entirely different type of memory.
I agree. (Score:2, Interesting)
www.realuser.com for more info
Re:I liked faced passwords better (Score:5, Funny)
Whoa! Fuck that! I am not a secret agent! I want a password I can reveal BEFORE torture!
Re:I liked faced passwords better (Score:3, Informative)
Imagination (Score:2)
The problem with this approach (Score:5, Insightful)
The other flaw (which is less serious) is that this strategy is only effective when the user has to remember a small, finite number of inkblots. If a user is forced to memorize a few hundred inkblots to cover the dozens of passwords he needs on a daily basis, this mnenomic technique loses its value.
Re:The problem with this approach (Score:3, Interesting)
1427247692705959881058285969449495136382746624
That makes the odds of guessing the password astronomically low.
Actually, it's 39062500000000. Note that your number doesn't end in a zero.
Either way, the problem is that a password cracking program can search through that space in a reasonable amount of time. 50^8, representing 50 possible words for each of 8 inkblots, is about equal to 2^45. A single computer trying every possible password would f
Cute but flawed? (Score:3, Interesting)
Also, most people's passwords are a string that they easily remember + some numbers. It's much easier to remember blahblah123 than to look at the blobs every time you want to login and reconstruct "frherotspsmt..." from the images.
Perhaps this system could be used to help people remember forgotten passwords, like being able to select 5 of out 10 images in the correct order.
hard passwords are easy (Score:2)
The most common password would be... (Score:2, Funny)
Hey.... (Score:2)
What is... (Score:2)
I personally have a 30 character one that is locked in my brain now... but only use it for things I would actually be worried about.
Strong passwords? (Score:3, Informative)
Not quite. You password will be long, but still only consist of letters. A truly strong password includes non-alpha and non-numbers to increase the search space to help against brute force attacks.
Re:Strong passwords? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Strong passwords? (Score:5, Insightful)
Nowisthewinterofourdiscontent. . . (Score:3, Funny)
. . . hereClarencecomes
Oh, sure, maybe they'll get lucky with the first 16 letters or so, but they'll never guess the next few hundred.
KFG
You're both wrong... (Score:5, Informative)
The strongest possible password is the string with the most entropy that you can reliably remember and enter. i.e. the output of a password-generation method that has the largest possible number of different outputs (assuming that they are equally likely up to computational feasibility, and that you can reliably remember and enter the password, and that an attacker has any reasonable chance of guessing how you generated it).
It is NOT the longest string you can commit to memory. There are people who have memorized thousands of digits of pi, but the first thousand digits of pi would be a horrible password if someone knew that you had memorized them. Similarly, Shakespearean soliloquies suck, especially if you are a Shakespeare geek.
A random sentence from War and Peace has maybe 16 bits of entropy. A random paragraph has fewer, because there are fewer paragraphs in War & Peace than there are sentences. A random word from
If the string is anywhere on your hard drive in plaintext form, be it in the words dict, a deleted email from Amazon, or your War and Peace ebook, it has at most 40-some bits of entropy (depending on your hard disk size and its length), and could be cracked on a small cluster in days if your hardrive wore stolen.
A 5-word diceware.com password such as "cleft cam synod lacy yr" has about 63-64 bits of entropy, and is my preferred password type for long passwords because it is fairly easy to remember. A 10-character RAD-64 password such as "4TFA/ii+Xc" has 60 bits. An 18-digit random number has about the same.
If you can narrow each inkblot to 50 possibilities, then a sequence of 10 of them has about 57 bits of entropy in 20 characters. (don't take my word, i calculated it in my head). That's feasible for the govt, or distributed.net, or a very large company. Not bad for a passport account which is unlikely to have its hash lifted anyway, but since I can remember the RAD64 or the diceware one easier and enter it faster, I'll stick with one of them for the accounts I care about.
Anyway, the password strength you need depends on how much you care about what it protects.
For instance, I have 10-word diceware for my PGP master signing key, which is about as strong as the hash. Accounts that I don't really care about, like
Missing the point - who has passwords this long? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Strong passwords? (Score:3, Interesting)
This won't work... (Score:2)
Oh wait, this is MS. Built from the ground up for insane security.
Take the test (Score:3, Funny)
1. nothing whatsoever
2. fat black sumo wrestler with purple arms doing the splits
3. goatse with chopsticks
4. CowboyNeal's legs in blue spandex
5. two Chinese soldiers looking longingly at each other
6. abstract goatse
7. A black man with bad posture, a green afro, and wings coming out his ass.
8. Blueberry people flanking goatse.
9. A very fat superhero.
10. Birdman does it doggie style. Possibly with goatse.
Old psychiatrist joke: (Score:5, Funny)
Based on this argument, start off with a password of sxsxsxsxsxsxsxsxsxsx.
Seriously, the problem is that with this method the password gets written down. OK, what's rule 1 of security? A written password is a potentially compromised password.
inkblot test hacking... with freud? (Score:2)
"it looks like my mother yelling at me!"
How could this possibly work? (Score:3, Insightful)
1) People are lazy. They aren't going to look through ten inkblots and write down each one and then figure out the first and last letter of each. They are more likely to write their password down somewhere, or just click on the link that says "e-mail me a new password".
2) People are stupid. Normaly users would get a page saying "View each of these inkblots and write down
3) Did they have a control group that attempted to remember their "strong" password? They state that it is unusual for a user to remember a strong password after one day, but I wonder how unusual?
4) "... by the umpteenth time you've logged in, you've remembered these twenty characters". Wouldn't it just be simpler to make them type the 20 characters over and over again 15 times? Then they remember it anyway, and don't have to reverse engineer the whole process.
--jdan
Psychological Experiment (Score:5, Funny)
There were 4 test subjects and the psychologist in the room. He'd show an ink blot to each test subject in turn and record the responses.
I was test subject #4.
On the first ink blot, the first three all said the same thing and I said something different.
The second ink blot went like the first.
I remember that on one ink blot, the guy next to me tried to argue with me into agreeing with him, but I didn't.
In fact, in the entire series of ink blots, the only time I agreed with anyone else was the one time he asked me first. Then everyone else agreed with me.
It turned out that there was only one true test subject, test subject #4. The rest were in cahoots with the psychologist.
The purpose of the experiment was to measure our socialness. The psychologist was rather upset with me because I was way off the curve and told me that I was the most anti-social person he had ever met.
That's something coming from a psychologist who worked at a state reformatory.
Anyway, back on topic, I tend to use passwords that are quite long usually by stringing unusual words together or by creating nonsensical sentences. In both cases, unusual spelling, punctuation, and capitalization are present.
20 characters just doesn't seem enough.
Re:Psychological Experiment (Score:3, Funny)
Given that you read & post on slashdot, he can't be far off, can he?
Will They Patent it? (Score:2)
MS Security reveals (Score:3, Funny)
Stubblefield, and his manager at MSR, Dan Simon, knew that people are the weakest link in secure computing environments
Not a very good idea - easily breakable (Score:5, Interesting)
statistical analyzing. The Rorshach inkblots were randomly chosen - it didn't matter at all what they looked like - as long as they were always the same.
After many decades of testing, psychiatrists were able to plot people on charts based on certain responses and then empirically decide whether someone might have a given mental illness based on whether their response should statistical similarity to others who had proven to have that illness. Most of the categories that the responses were judged on were extremely arbitrary.
The point is, the inkblot test relies on the fact that most people with "normal" brain function will look at an inkblot the same way. You'd be surprised at how many people who list "fly" as the one that looks like a "fly" etc. What you are going to end up with is only a handful of different words for each inkblot. People aren't going to pick phrases like "flying man with with green wings getting ready to lift-off" because those phrases are hard to remember. Most of them will be "fly" "flying man", "wing man" etc.
This is not a secure password.
Re:your comment was 'easily breakable' (Score:4, Insightful)
Combined with the fact that the cracker is dealing only with alphabetic characters, you end up with a highly structured system, with an obvious, and likely quite fruitful, means of attack.
More than one way to assign a password (Score:2)
Then I could not only feel better about my data, but about myself as well.
*honk*
Memory (art & palaces as well) (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, this is the "intellectual", generic version of the idea posted (and slashdotted) above, and you can use it to remember your passwords, long speeches, todo-list, anything.
And M$ won't be patenting this any time soon, the greeks used this even BC.
Worth a read and a try, really.
Note: Thomas Harris has had Hannibal Lecter use and play with memory palaces in his novels too.
The interview (Score:4, Funny)
He said, "No, it's ok. Everyone sees something different."
So I told him, "Well, to *me* it looks like pattern number 7 in the Rorschach test for obsessive compulsive dissorder." But, then he got all depressed so I said, "Ok... it's a password prompt."
[with appologies to Emo
Lipstick on a pig (Score:3, Funny)
It wastes your time, and annoys the pig.
Using that method, my new password is... (Score:4, Funny)
just letters? (Score:3, Insightful)
- Even characters are the last letter of the second word, so this is likely to be an 's' for plural-looking blots, and not so likely to be a, i, o, u, and almost definitely not q.
- The length of the password is known.
- There are no capital letters. In fact, they're all lowercase letters.
A normal dictionary attack on twenty characters would have 94^20, 2.90e39 permutations. The passwords with the restrictions listed above would be at MOST 26^10*25^10 (assuming no q's in the even positions), or 2.37e14, possibilities. Using some "probably's" listed above, you could save some of the less likely combinations for the end of the list.OTOH, an eight-character max, mixed-case password that could have special characters will have (i=1..8)94^i (sorry, I can't do sigma notation) possibilities, which is 6.16e15. That's 26x as many as the method listed above, and given that the human mind can easily remember between five and nine characters, it seems we're better off memorizing some sequence from
DISCLAIMER: I am not a mathematician. I may be talking out of my ass. Please correct me if I am.
How is this a strong password? (Score:3, Interesting)
Plus, how many places are there on the web that limit the lenght of passwords to like 8 or 10? If you use 4 inblots and generate an 8 character string of letters all in one case, that's not exactly a strong password.
Did those inblots suck ass or what? Some just really didn't lend themselves to pictures for me.
Proving Microsoft Right... (Score:3, Funny)
Please blame the lameness of the formatting of this list on slashcode: "Your comment has too few characters per line (currently 20.0)."
Image 1:
-butterfly swimmer, Snooty Nose, mantle, Mask and dress, Mugatu from Zoolander, Person with hands behind back looking at feet
-Two birds on a tree with two dogs breathing fire -on them, Angry hippie, diablo howling into the air, A rabbit with horns lifting weights, Angry robot with guns
-Strongbad, Fighter Plane, Two birds singing, Missouri, tripod mortar
Image 2:
-fat person stretching, Christian Slater, Bear in a T-shirt, Board Meeting, Gravity challenged lady in lycra super hero outfit doing the splits
-Sumo wrestler on his ass, Jabba the hutt wearing a cape, fat sumo man in his fight stance, Squatting sumo, Cartman (I haven't even seen many SP episodes)
-Headboard or a bed, A gorilla in sweats doing a split, Fat woman stretching, linebacker, Kneeling fat man, recycle logo
Image 3:
-WWE Smackdown Enterance, Transformer, two hands, Zoro meets Willie Nelson, Someone eating coffee grounds from a filter with chopsticks
-Bob the Tomato from Veggie Tales, Someone drawing with both hands, Knitting a fez, one of the things from the movie Gremlins, An ambidexterous person writing with both hands
-Two bunny rabits eating guts, Bee face close up, Cockpit, Tropical island with two palms without tops, Obviously Goatse, buglike jetboat
Image 4:
-bushy woman on the shitter, Oak leaf, Hands washing black socks, LAN Party, Woman with grey arms force feeding candy to two children
-Batman's crotch, A large table saw designed to work in a gravity-less environment run by a tip driving magnetic motor, pelvic bone yo
-Hands full of glue, I have no idea. Nothing comes up., Comfy slippers , Feet of a reclining person
-Woman with panties down doing the Charleston, knees, Earmuffs, Evil Eyes
Image 5:
-Person Gasping, Pierre and Pierre, two faces, Two green berets talking, Two ice cream cones, Arab looking in a mirror, Two weeping men with large green hats
-Rastafarian argument, two men crying as they face eachother with big puffy green hats, two frogs wearing hats sticking their tongues out, Two green berets with black eyes, Two malnourished mullah's with camouflaged hats discussing the art of fellatio,
-Osama, Two boys playing soldiers, Trent Reznor, two eyes with big green brows
Image 6:
-grinning insect mouth, Edmonton (Canada), Camp entrance, Bloody Chest, Super hero adjusting bra
-Football shoulder pads, a person's hat with fake hair and pigtails attached, another pelvic bone?
-Hands holding a brassiere, Spider, Monkey doing telepathy
-A headless woman, Man hiding eyes, spider, Mittens, Person Gasping
Image 7:
-Turtle man, Flying Monkey, flying frog, Flyman, A frog in an apron, Frog with wings in apron, Mean green fly, Dragonfly frog, totally a flying frog chef duh!
-A winged frog wearing coveralls, Fairy frog wearing an apron, Jack Osbourne dressed as an angel, Frog Ferry, Green winged mole, Letter label, Yoda with bug wings
Image 8:
-The fat blue guys from yellow dubmarine shooting condoms out of their bellies
-Yugos
-Blue rabbits smoking.
-Globe
-Two Blue Meanies looking at a big butterfly
-Two sheep heads crapped on by a butterfly
-2 dinosaurs watching a large butterfly
-two men in suits watching a butterfly fly between them
-Tying a bowtie
-Dino men from Super Mario Brothers movie
-RC controllers
-Snapping fingers
-Two men shot in their heads thinking about bras.
-smoking
-Two Aliens
-Boys Spitting
Image 9:
-Batman fighting
-Bird in the hand
-demon
-Italian man twirling two pizzas.
-Batman peeing
dumb (Score:3, Funny)
Tell the user to remember their password.
Demerit the user each time they have to ask for it, and publish the demerit count every week. Shame them. Demerit them further during daily inspections of workspaces if they have written it down anywhere.
Encourage "Survivor" tactics where workers try to figure out each other's passwords, and earn points for each password they discover. Keystroke logging, hidden cameras, it's all fair in the name of security. And of course, demerit the person who's password was compromised.
They will remember. Oh yes, they will remember.
On first day of hire: "WELCOME TO STRICTCO! YOUR EMPLOYEE NUMBER IS 103489923477730493. THE COSINE OF THAT IS YOUR PASSWORD. FORGET IT, AND WE DOCK YA!"
# Erik - 27 password demerits since 1997
Disclaimer: According to section 39485 of StrictCo's Employee Handbook, by using STRICTCO's Internet connection to post this message, the user's name and password demerit count must be published with each message, along with this disclaimer. Please report any violations to hr@strictco.gg
Re:I doubt it. (Score:2)
Their example "it looks like a flying gardner" would take the first letter of "flying' and the last letter of "gardner". The user does this for each of 10 blots, forming a password which is probably not in any dictionary.
In fact, the blot system could even check the password against a dictionary to rule out accidental matches -- just have the user do it again.
Also, they show the user the blots and have
Re:I doubt it. (Score:3, Informative)
Given also that every Even character is a word termination character, and the letter frequency is well known with respect to terminal positions as well...
Given further than most people start a phrase when typing with a capital letter...
I would say some minor combinatorics based on these fac
Re:It's going to be a big logon screen (Score:2)