Network Associates Aquires Deersoft Inc. 127
Duncan Findlay writes "Network Associates Inc. has just
acquired Deersoft, Inc., which is known by many as the creator of SpamAssassin Pro, the proprietary (Windows) version of the GPL/PAL licensed SpamAssassin (Mirrors: Eastern US, Europe). It seems that we may see parts of SpamAssassin under the McAfee name within 6 months. You can also read the story at Yahoo or at Reuters. Unfortunately, the SpamAssassin trademark was owned by Deersoft, so hypothetically, NAI could force us to call the Open Source project something else!"
So, not "spamassassin" (Score:5, Funny)
Re:So, not "spamassassin" (Score:2)
No it doesn't.
But that's besides the point. This is the allmighty Slashdot. We hate spam, but we also hate screwy company mergers. I'm confused. I don't know what to think. Somebody please do my thinking for me.
Re:So, not "spamassassin" (Score:1)
Well, close enough, if you sort of squint.
Re:So, not "spamassassin" (Score:1)
Maybe if you squint your ears. ;)
Actually, it is a near-rhyme, which is a valid type of rhyme. So...uhhh.... there. :P
Re:So, not "spamassassin" (Score:1)
Re:So, not "spamassassin" (Score:2, Funny)
SPAM luncheon meat ingredients (Score:1)
SPAM is an acronym for Squirrels, Possums, and Mice
More like Spiced Pork and Ham or (later) Specially Processed Assorted Meat. SPAM® luncheon meat by Hormel Foods is pork shoulder and ham, salt, water, sugar, and sodium nitrite. (Read More... [claremont.edu])
Why does a hamburger sandwich have beef?
Re:So, not "spamassassin" (Score:2)
Wait no further... (Score:1)
Re:Wait no further... (Score:5, Informative)
What's up with these guys buying... (Score:3, Interesting)
McAfee bought SpamKiller a number of months back. I actually paid for that thing back when it was just a shareware project. Big money came in, updates stopped...
Now they buy SpamAssassin, great! I actually used it after getting rid of SpamKiller, and it was OK-ish, but it bothered the hell out of me that I had no control over what's spam and what's not, except for a sender black- and whitelist. (Which sometimes does not work for mailing lists, some of the ones I'm on have date-specific senders such as blahblah-digest-20021220@blahblah.com.)
I switched to POPFile like two months ago, and never looked back. 97.8% accuracy and increasing, yay!
Re:What's up with these guys buying... (Score:2)
Re:What's up with these guys buying... (Score:2)
Re:What's up with these guys buying... (Score:2)
whitelist_from *@blahblah.com
or to do it by header:
header NAME1 Subject =~
score NAME1 -20
Travis
Stuff still missing... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Stuff still missing... (Score:1, Insightful)
Kill the product? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Stuff still missing... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Stuff still missing... (Score:2)
I can install and remove anything from my pc at will, and if I am the one to install McAfee and tell it to remove spyware then it doesn't matter what the spyware manufacturer thinks (and don't give me no guff about licencing agreements - nothing I sign says I can't turn around and remove it (and expect to hold up in court) - besides, I didn't even click a yes/no to get that last batch of spyware I excised from my pc).
Just because some pr0n dialer sued somebody doesn't mean the case was justified or will even last or lasted 1 week.
Re:Stuff still missing... (Score:1)
Not spurious removal (Score:2)
If it automatically went through and sliced'n'diced apps that would be bad. By giving the users the choice, it's their decision as to what to remove - right down to the registry entries and individual files - and a user has a right to remove whatever he/she damn well wants from a personal computer.
Name change must be a joke (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Name change must be a joke (Score:1)
Re:Name change must be a joke (Score:2, Insightful)
The GPL does not in any way restrict the rights of the author of the source code, instead it grants the user of the software additional rights on the condition that they do certain things. Thus, the GPL would not force the author of a program to give up the trademark on the name of the program.
That said I really doubt that McAfee is going to force the open source project to change its name, as it would be a PR nightmare.
Re:Name change must be a joke (Score:2)
Re:Name change must be a joke (Score:2)
Not sure if that was too clear, but that is what I think is the story.
Wow. I think we need a new license then! (Score:2)
1. Release your own program under GPL
2. Wait until people start using/extending it.
3. Sue them for patent and trademark infrigement.
4. Profit!!!
Shouldn't we have GPL+ license that also makes people who write/extend the code give up any patents or trademarks that they put there? Just wait until Microsoft hears this and starts releasing shared source under "GPL".
Re:Wow. I think we need a new license then! (Score:2)
Re:Name change must be a joke (Score:2)
The GPL, being a licence, is a legally binding contract (assuming you agreed with it). If they decide to pull the GPL, it is always possible to make a fork from the last version released under the GPL.
They can, however, decide not to release any new free versions. In fact, I expect NAI to do this, after the money they lost with PGP.
Re:Name change must be a joke (Score:1)
However, since they now employ two of the leading coders, releases might now be a lot less frequent. Hopefully, NAI will do the right thing.
IANAL either, but... (Score:2)
Who says that the name of the software would be protected by GPL?
The software name is trademarked. GPL is based off of copyright. Completely separate concepts.
Re:Name change must be a joke (Score:3, Informative)
We're currently floating between meeting after meeting after meeting with the Network Associates folks, trying to nail down timelines, roadmaps, etc. and will have more information hopefully soon.
Through the merger process, one of my main concerns was trying to ensure the preservation and independence of all aspects of the open source project. This was partially reflected in the press release announcing the acquisition, but I think that was written by a marketroid who doesn't necessarily understand what Open Source even means.
If you want to contact me directly, please email me at craig@deersoft.com or craig@hughes-family.org and I'll try and get answers to any questions you may have -- be warned though that NAI is a large company with the typical slowness associated with large organizations.
Craig Hughes
Deersoft (Score:1)
Assassin was ok, but I liked this better (Score:3, Informative)
SpamNet is actually somewhat better at intelligently filtering out trash.
no thanks (Score:1, Informative)
* Windows 98 / NT / 2000 / XP
* Outlook 2000 / XP
* 1mb disk space
Um. Yeah.... Now all I need to do is get a Windows box and then install outlook. Think I'll stick to SpamAssassin, Procmail and POPFile.
Re:Assassin was ok, but I liked this better (Score:1)
Now... (Score:3, Funny)
Just the name? (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, if this goes as mainstream as it looks like it's going, we might need a different open-source spam filter after all - because NAI's product will be the one the spammers will be testing on and trying to get past.
OTOH, maybe NAI throwing money at this will make ISPs everywhere notice and start taking spam a bit more seriously.
Anyway, while it lasts, SpamAssassin (or whatever we call it) is excellent. The new Bayesian filtering in the upcoming 2.50 is working wonders.
Re:Just the name? (Score:1)
Since we haven't been at NAI very long yet, many decisions have yet to be made about roadmap, timelines, Justin and my level of continuing involvement in the open source project, etc., but all signs so far indicate the likelihood that NAI is planning to do the right thing, and continue Deersoft's license of the mark to the open source project, as well as allowing Justin and me to continue working on the project, while also working on NAI stuff which is not open source (just like we both were doing at Deersoft).
However NAI ends up using what they've acquired, you be bet they'll be very likely to invest in publicizing (and providing paid support for) whatever products they built based on the technologies.
Of course, all decisions are just my perceptions so far. I'm still chasing around the building (and on the phone to those people who aren't physically in this building) to nail down all the answers. Large companies move slowly though, so final confirmation on all this will likely take some time. I'll keep everyone posted as best as I can.
Craig Hughes
Is it just me.... (Score:1)
I'm happy for the Deersoft guys (Score:4, Interesting)
They've continued to update the program and add more features. I get 50-100 spams per day and the program might miss one of them.
I hope they are getting a nice tasty payout from Network Associates.
Re:I'm happy for the Deersoft guys (Score:2, Informative)
Re:I'm happy for the Deersoft guys (Score:3, Insightful)
1) What I bought was a version that works as a plug-in to Microsoft Outlook that runs client-side in a Outlook/Exchange environment. It's a specific implementation of the code that I wanted. I could have taken the GPL code and changed it to do this, but it is simpler and cheaper to buy it.
2) These guys deserve the money. They worked hard and made a good piece of software. Paying them for their work is a good incentive to continue writing good, useful code.
Re:I'm happy for the Deersoft guys (Score:1)
Ditto! I bought a license to use at work and recommended it highly to anyone that asked. I also was in touch with the guys there about some bug in early releases and they were quite responsive
At home though I use(d) Outlook Express and thus had to look elsewhere. So, I came up with a way to use the GPL version "client-side" on Windows. One of these years I'll whip up a description of it.
BalamSpeaking of trademarks... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Speaking of trademarks... (Score:2)
A-CHOO!
Re:Speaking of trademarks... (Score:2, Informative)
I don't know about the legal status of it though. Probably just a courtesy.
SpamAssassin (Score:2, Insightful)
wouldn't the open source project benefit greatly just by the exposure and publicity gained through such a move?
Ok, we're not talking a CNN breaking news story here, but I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that I had never even heard of SpamAssassin until just now via
Re:SpamAssassin (Score:2)
You must be new around here or filtering out interesting articles... It's been around for ages, I've been using it now myself for nearly 18 months or more in varying guises.
I guess the latter would make it rather hard for them to force us to change the name for the thing, too.
OMG! (Score:1, Funny)
pre acceptance filtering vs post acceptance ? (Score:2)
Besides, if the ip keeps tripping my rbl check, i can add it to the firewall and waste about zero cpu time on em : )
Existing customers? (Score:3, Insightful)
We will take the existing product off the market immediately and will launch an enhanced version in the second quarter of 2003. Network Associates has assumed all support obligations for Deersoft customers. Existing Deersoft customers can contact a technical support representative at 1 800-722-3709.
YES US TELEPHONE SUPPORT! it's *SO* cheap calling from Denmark to US.
Anyway as happy user, I seriously doubt anything worthwhile for existing customers will come out of this.
Re:Existing customers? (Score:1)
Re:Existing customers? (Score:1)
What happens when you dial TOLL FREE numbers over here? Do they charge you??
Man, it's almost like a tax to own a phone in some parts of europe. Friend of mine called me from London once. He plopped in 10 Pounds and we got to talk long enough to say hi, and for me to say hi to his wife or something (like about 3-5 minutes maybe?). That's insane. I called a friend in Italy nearly 10 years ago (when long distance was more expensive in NA) and a 20 minute call was only 40 bucks.
Re:Existing customers? (Score:1)
They won't want to use the name SpamAssassin (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:They won't want to use the name SpamAssassin (Score:1)
The SpamAssassin "brand" (Score:1)
Deersoft's aim was to provide nicely packaged, GUI-ized point-and-click products for the Windows market, driven by the same high-precision engine that's available to the open-source enlightened through spamassassin.org
Craig Hughes
call... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:call... (Score:1)
Re:call... (Score:2)
"The spam never saw him coming."
Re:call... (Score:1)
I really need to wake up... (Score:2, Funny)
Article to clear it up (Score:2)
http://www.virusbtn.com/news/latest_news/spamassa
Whats in a name? (Score:2)
Prior use is a valid defense (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Prior use is a valid defense (Score:2)
Re:Prior use is a valid defense (Score:1)
Explain how Microsoft was able to trademark the word "Windows", then.
Re:Prior use is a valid defense (Score:2)
Further, Microsoft's Windows trademark is teneous at best, with at least one federal judge questioning the legitimacy of their trademark claim [com.com]
And no, I'm not a Lawyer -- yet, although with my newly acquired LSAT scores I may soon remedy that.
Re:Prior use is a valid defense (Score:2, Informative)
Craig Hughes
AbiWord vs. AbiWord Personal (Score:1)
As for NAI's intentions wrt the mark, I'm working on clarifying those now
Here's how Abisource [abisource.com] handles it: AbiWord refers to Abisource's binary distribution, and AbiWord Personal refers to the GPL version.
damned if you do (Score:3, Insightful)
...except that the previous owners did not vigorously defend the mark against the Free Software project, would NAI now have grounds at all? Selling the mark does not erase the actions Deersoft did/did-not make.
EXCEPT that there is no justice in the USA without $$$$ - so the mere threat of a suit from NAI would cause the F.S. project to freely walk away from the 'battle'.
Re:damned if you do (Score:1)
Craig Hughes
wow (Score:1)
/confused
NAI ruins reputation of yet another product (Score:1, Interesting)
"Hello, we're using the free version of PGP in testing and have decided to use it in production, what do we need to license this from you?" Sales moron takes information and says, 'I'll get back to you in a bit.'
Guy calls back threatening a lawsuit if we don't buy the 'Enterprise' edition of the product that only runs on Windows (We needed only the version for Solaris). This continues with more and more strongarmed tactics including phone spamming all of our corporate directory with their threats.
It took telling the guy that he was too close to our office to keep running on at the mouth like he was and that he had better serve papers or look over his shoulder durning lunch hour if he continued calling.
NAI uses mafia tactics to sell their broken down product line, the faster people can boycott them the better off we all will be. I have never sold another NAI product to any of my clients as a result.
May as well change the name now just to avoid the annoying threats that will ensue. NAI you are despicable, a stand-out in a sea of detritus. Congratulations on what will be the ruin of another great product.
From the Press Release (Score:1)
Which means they're probably not concerned with who uses the SpamAssasin name.
Pah! They wouldn't do that! (Score:2)
Afterall, were talking about Network Ass...nevermind.
The biggest tragedy and doom for Spamassassin (Score:3, Informative)
Here's the troubling part.
Craig and Justin owned the trademark and now work for NAI on the proprietary version (to be named "SpamKiller" apparently) and Matt's company has pulled him off because there is a conflict of interest in having him work on open source being fed back into NAI.
So the three captains of this project are now gone. This doesn't bode well for the future of SA.
Sucks.
Re:The biggest tragedy and doom for Spamassassin (Score:2)
Re:The biggest tragedy and doom for Spamassassin (Score:3, Informative)
Q. What will be the status of the open source product following the acquisition?
The SpamAssassin open source project will continue and *will be maintained by its current authors including Justin Mason and Craig Hughes*. Mason and Hughes will be employees of Network Associates and will devote their energies to the development of the proprietary McAfee product.
Re:The biggest tragedy and doom for Spamassassin (Score:4, Informative)
The highlighted portion should have been:
The SpamAssassin open source project will continue and will be maintained by its current authors including Justin Mason and Craig Hughes. Mason and Hughes will be employees of Network Associates and will devote their energies to the development of the proprietary McAfee product.
Now having said that, Justin has posted saying that even for the last four months he's been working for Deersoft and still working on OS so there is some reason to hope. Craig's been pretty busy though and difficult to contact, so I wouldn't bet on him being able to spend much time on the OS portion going forward and Matt has officially dropped out.
Re:The biggest tragedy and doom for Spamassassin (Score:1)
Craig Hughes
Re:The biggest tragedy and doom for Spamassassin (Score:2)
This is indeed the salient advice. I've not once, but twice in the last week been overcome by fear and paranoia when sitting back and being calm appears to be the correct behavior. What Craig and Justin have said publically at this point is that they both anticipate continuing there active involvement in the OS project.
Re:The biggest tragedy and doom for Spamassassin (Score:2)
A pink meat eater (Score:2)
A Pink Meat Eater by any other name doth smell as sweet.
Interesting trend here. OS projects getting bought out by private industry. While lots to be said about that, and the quality of OS vs. Closed Source, I don't see that this could change anything other than the name.
Yes, it is terrible to see the three original authors go, but there are many in the OS community that are willing to pick up and carry on. And once OS, always OS, right?
SpamAssassin code seems fairly stable. All that's really needed at this point are updates to the matching rules IMO. At some point, yes, the code will need a bit of work, but it's not the same level of job to maintain code as it is to create it. I'm not saying it's easy...
NAI plans to call it SpamKiller (Score:2)
Name change? (Score:1)
Another suggestion; we get to keep the name for the GPL's *NIX version as long as we continue to not release a free (GPL or beer) windows port.
More spam from NSI, film at 11... (Score:2, Funny)
And then, of course, NSI is whitelisted in the SA database through some "mysterious corruption".
Re:RPN haiku (Score:1)
Response flows from fingers:
"acronym means nothing to me"
-Matt
Re:Disturbing attitude may bode ill for future (Score:1)