Federal Cyberspace Policy Draft Released 187
mh_cryptonomicon writes "The initial public draft of the National Strategy for Securing Cyberspace was released today. This document outlines the Administration's plan for ensuring that the Net remains a 'good neighborhood.' Following the release of the plan, the Administration's Cybersecurity team will take it on the road for discussions with the people about what can and should be done to protect and defend the net. More information (and the 65 page draft) can be downloaded from the White House's Critical Infrastructure Protection site. This draft is considerably smaller than the 3300 page monster it was reported as being. Commentary is starting to pop up everywhere, including www.cryptonomicon.net/blog/."
Pretty Decent NY Times Article (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Pretty Decent NY Times Article (Score:1)
Sorry, but it asked me to register from that link. Oh well.
Re:Pretty Decent NY Times Article (Score:1)
Re:Pretty Decent NY Times Article (Score:1)
Re:Pretty Decent NY Times Article (Score:1)
Come on. (Score:1)
Re:Come on. (Score:1, Offtopic)
As long as the MPAA isn't involved...
And this is why... (Score:2)
It's all a setup (Score:1)
Slashdot users DoS whitehouse.gov to see the plans thay MAY quash internet freedom - government uses this as evidence to carry out these anti-terrorists prototection plans for the internet.
They're going to put this on a political road shw? (Score:5, Insightful)
If they really wanted a quality review they'd submit it to 20-30 different universities, think tanks and businesses and individuals who are integral to studying the internet. By doing reviews in a "town meeting" format, they might as well just put it on a call in talk show and have the callers "draft" the policy.
I don't mean to put down the quality of input that ordinary "citizens" can add to this policy, a town hall is just not the way to do it.
hrumph.
tcd004
Read Richard Gere's Ass Zoo, really [lostbrain.com]
Re:They're going to put this on a political road s (Score:5, Informative)
"'Discussion'. Yeah. Right."
Still, from what I've heard of the plan, it's not too bad. Main points seem to be primarily relying on increased security awareness (come on, sysadmins of the clueless newbies, admit it: you've wished, at least once, that all new users of the chunk of the 'Net you control would have to get some decent training about what a virus is and how not to get one - well, that's about what they're advocating) and reliability rather than monitoring (not "scan all the traffic looking for something nasty" but "lock down the ports so nasty things don't happen" - i.e., prevention).
Re:They're going to put this on a political road s (Score:2)
Oh, I dunno about that. I've been getting email for the past 15 years or so on an mit.edu account where I get several virii each day, and so far none of them has done any harm at all. Of course, I use a plain-text mail reader on a FreeBSD system, so they can't do any damage. The messages that contain a virus are usually pretty obvious. If they grow to hundredss per day, it'll be a problem, but so far it's less of a bother than the Chinese "big5" spam messages.
The real public education should include pointing out that the "virus" problem is 99% due to Microsoft's insistence on delivering software that is susceptible to such things, despite the fact that we unix geeks knew how to prevent the damage before there was even a Microsoft.
Publicising the fact that viruses are almost entirely a Microsoft problem would go a long way toward getting the problem fixed. We should be asking the media and the National Strategy for Securing Cyberspace people why they aren't pointing this out.
I too was impressed (Score:2)
The initial idea if a national network operations center would have created an interesting target, which could have been compromised as well, and the appoitntment of a privacy czar might have added legitimacy to the dubious effort, so I am glad to see the whole thing dropped.
All and all, I like this draft.
20 Minutes Into the Future (Score:1)
Re:20 Minutes Into the Future (Score:2)
No more Max Headroom re-runs for this man.
Its all about the pictures.. (Score:1)
Does this mean they will protect our free nudie sites better?
Karma: Pimp (mostly affected by your pimphood and your bitchin comments)
I think this is necessary ( dont shoot me yet) (Score:2)
Re:I think this is necessary ( dont shoot me yet) (Score:2)
that wouldmake it darn easy for the average person to set up a filter.
Re:I think this is necessary ( dont shoot me yet) (Score:2)
And spammers are restricted to just the 3rd section.
(offtopic) that's an option, shouldn't be required (Score:2, Insightful)
As far as I know the article doesn't deal with censorship or porn or anything like that.
And as far as that is concerned, I think censorship is dangerous. Putting one group in control of deciding what is and what is-not appropriate is just a Bad Idea. Tools are already available for you (as an admin, and a parent) to censor, watch, control, and report those areas. A requirement for that to be freely available (from the ISP?) is one thing, but requiring all content providers to be policed by one central group is another IMHO.
Re:I think this is necessary ( dont shoot me yet) (Score:3, Insightful)
And who makes the decision about swimsuit models and child models? Selling bathing suits and lingerie, or pornography? Selling diapers, or kiddie porn?
That's the main problem. There is, and can be, no one controlling entity with real enforcement rights.
And yes, I do have kids. AOL, for all its many faults, IS not too bad at regulating and allowing parents to lock down kids accounts.
Re:I think this is necessary ( dont shoot me yet) (Score:2)
I've always believed in personal freedom and an Internet free of censorship too. I grew up. I started a family. I served in my country's military. I traveled a few areas of the world. And I saw what it is like when a culture embraces censorship.
And I can't disagree with you more. Your tiered system begins falls clearly in to the classic problem of censorship - who decides what goes where. By who's authority? By who's standards? And then... at what cost?
Worried about what your kids are doing? Be involved in their activities. Worried about what your employees are doing? Why? Are they failing to meet their expected performance? And if their performance is suffering - does it really matter if its because they spend all morning reading a newspaper, chatting with coworkers, or browsing the web?
If you want AOL - subscribe to AOL. Leave the Internet alone.
Oh. And nice troll.
Re:I think this is necessary ( dont shoot me yet) (Score:2)
There would be no censorship, just classification. Lets take the three tiered approach.
Re:I think this is necessary ( dont shoot me yet) (Score:2)
Yes, yes. But the whole idea of this "classification" is to censor traffic. Who says what belongs to what group? Take a look at the net filter software being sold "to protect the children". The scandal with these products is that the block list is often hidden and when they come to light, they are full of some very questionable classifications.
Classification is the first step to censorship.
The UN has that kind of authority? How about the EU? How about the US Government? What happens when local ideals conflict? Say... publishing the text of Hitler's Mein Kampf which is legal in the US but very illegal in Germany?
I see your point. And I find it flawed.
Re:I think this is necessary ( dont shoot me yet) (Score:1)
I though I was the only one. I mean come on -- there are about 1 billion overfed people in the world and about 1 billion underfed people. The important thing for security is to make sure that some overfed person's overfed kids are "protected" when they go online?
Much work needs to be done in terms of human development and you are worried about how little time you need to invest being involved in what your kid sees or hears online?
You suck!! Your whole overpopulating operating sucks!!
Some advice: Keep your kids away from the net and me if you need to control what they think and feel. That is all you have to do. Don't tell me what I can and can't do in certain domains on the net.
Unless, of course, you set up a separate chunk of land near my house where I can grow and smoke weed without fear of persecution. Then we can talk about what ever you want.
A Mapping on Code Red Penetration on a Portion... (Score:1)
WTF is this a picture of anyway? There seem to be a lot of spooks like this in here.
Re:A Mapping on Code Red Penetration on a Portion. (Score:1)
Perhaps he meant "do his part" (Score:3, Funny)
Excellent, a government guideline I can get behind!
I'll take my laptop down to the beach, get stoned out of my mind, and watch this high quality version of Attack of the Clones I finally downloaded, then take a nap.
Wake me up when I've made the net secure - and try and explain it slowly, this south american shit I got utterly destroys you. I'll be laughing at stains on the ceiling 'til new years, no lie.
redisign the internet quick! (Score:1, Redundant)
Re:redisign the internet quick! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:redesign the internet quick! (Score:1)
Re:redisign the internet quick! (Score:2)
Actually the document is not half bad, the problem is not in the document, it is in the follow through.
Since the document proposes neither a tax cut nor a politically opportune war I don't expect it to get a great deal of follow through from the Whitehouse.
I certainly don't expect the proposals to be made mandatory in any sense by this administration in this term, but then that was never going to happen whoever was in office. This is the 'cooperation phase' of regulation where self-governance is attempted.
The real decision will be taken in 2004/5 by which time the areas where self governance has failled will be apparent and the question of coercion will appear again.
Is it just me? (Score:1, Offtopic)
It's just so 1995.
Re:Is it just me? (Score:1)
Re:Is it just me? (Score:1)
Re:Is it just me? (Score:2)
Actually, in my case, it's so 1989. Click on my sig.
Our BBS name has always been Cyberspace BBS.
Re:I agree. (Score:2)
Trolls? (Score:1)
FUD tastes great (Score:2)
Simple Solution: Use UDP and an application-level error correction algorithm, plus maybe packet sequence numbers.
Good Neighborhood? (Score:2)
Yeah, they'd better hurry up before we're inundated with spam, worms, trojans, and other unimaginable horrors. Oh, wait...
Heh (Score:3, Insightful)
I say other-worldly because the Internet is not bound by the traditional geographic laws. This nation may
Trying to regulate the internet is like trying to catch a fish with a bubble wand.
Yeah. It's not going to work.
Re:Heh (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Heh (Score:1)
So it may prove wise to consider further on the consecuences of this on other countries than the US.
What the government can do (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems that for cyberspace, as for species, the best protection is in diversity. The email worms thrive not only because Outlook is flawed, but because outlook is everywhere. The same concept applies to hardware from chips to the backbone as well.
If anything, the Gov't should play a roll as a supporter of open standards, limited patent abuse and, for starters, fixing or flushing the DMCA
Good neighborhood = net CC&R's? (Score:5, Insightful)
Do we really want the whole Internet to be one big anal-retentive "good neigborhood" controlled by an equally anal-retentive Neighborhood Association?
The reason for this approach is not only obvious, but it's the same reason CC&R's are created. Property values. CC&R's protect the property value, not the human values of living there. They elevate the property above the people. This sounds like the same thing to me, elevating the property values of commercial entities over the human values of the average person who is using the 'net.
Re:Good neighborhood = net CC&R's? (Score:2)
KFG
Re:Good neighborhood = net CC&R's? (Score:4, Insightful)
Perhaps I'm a happy sheeple, but I don't find my CC&R's particularly draconian, nor do I find them elevating $tuff over people. The homebuilder offered one of 7 floor plans with one of 12 color schemes. If I didn't like that, I didn't have to buy the product. If there are restrictions in place to prevent my NEIGHBOR from affecting the value of my property, that's good too.
My CC&R's, loosely paraphrased, state that I need to keep the property up and maintained. I don't see a problem with that as I have a vested interest in keeping that property in good shape.
Now flip a coin and talk about the Internet(tm). I have NO qualms with maintaining a good network infrastructure (Firewall, Virus scanning) because if I and my neighbors are compelled to do so, the Network (neighborhood) as a whole benefits from it.
That doesn't sound like such a bad idea to me.
Re:Good neighborhood = net CC&R's? (Score:1)
Well if you and 99% of the world know they have a vested interest, a CC&R is not needed.
Re:Good neighborhood = net CC&R's? (Score:2)
I personally feel that the laws governing planned development associations need an overhaul, but at least in my case, it was one of those things where you don't realize the overall benefit until it no longer exists.
This in NO WAY implies that I think the government ought to be assuming the role of 'neighborhood association' with respect to the internet.
Freaking busybodies... (Score:5, Funny)
I will put my router up on cinderblocks in my front yard if I damn well want to...
-- Terry
Re:Good neighborhood = net CC&R's? (Score:2)
We have our opinion that we don't want larger powers looking over our shoulders, telling us what we can and cannot see or do. That's our community here on SlashDot. But on the flip-side, you have to honor those, like my parents, that just want to get on the internet to check their stocks & read the sports, without running into a dozen pop-under ads & crap in the email.
The world does not have to have a mutually exclusive, singular solution. It would be silly of us to give up all controls to the government without a fight; and if it comes to that, we vote the bums out. I'm putting my faith in the good ol' capitalist methods... Maybe ISP#1 only has sports, and ISP#2 only does electronics, but somewhere there will be an entrepreneur that will make a mix that we like. Like residents on a property, we can pick yourself up and go...
Re:Good neighborhood = net CC&R's? (Score:3, Insightful)
So where do we go when the whole Internet becomes like this? AOL?
Re:Good neighborhood = net CC&R's? (Score:1)
"Neighborhood Association" = N/A
Cyberwar: How Terrorists Could Defeat the U.S. (Score:3, Interesting)
www.cryptogon.com/docs/cryptogon_cyberwar.pdf
It discusses physical threats to information infrastructures that are almost never mentioned publicly.
NOTE: Acrobat 5 is required to view the document.
WARNING: The information contained in this document is intended for educational purposes only. Anyone who attempts to undertake what is described in the "Possible Terrorist Scenario" section will be committing an act of war against the states involved. I am NOT encouraging anyone to carry out what is described in that section. I am exercising my First Amendment right to free speech to make people aware of the dangers posed to the global information infrastructure. Our society relies on these technologies, and an open discussion of the threats to these technologies is necessary in order to defend them.
Re:Cyberwar: How Terrorists Could Defeat the U.S. (Score:2)
Your scenario also explains why there is so much un-lit fiber.
How to tell if it's serious, or just more wonkage (Score:5, Insightful)
A news report that I saw yesterday, prior to the final document release, seemed to indicate that this report does not take insecure software makers to task for their role in the security crisis. If the final draft of the document keeps the kid gloves on like that, then I don't think this is going to be a very useful starting point for the government.
Probably the single best thing the government could do would be to set up strong security requirements for software used by any federal government branch, and enforce those requirements. Setting a high standard would force vendors to get a clue if they want to sell to the federal market, and as a by-product consumer and business software would get some help as well.
Re:How to tell if it's serious, or just more wonka (Score:2)
* Do they demand more accountability from software vendors for these flaws, including potentially requiring opening specs or even source code up for inspection before using the software in mission-critical systems?"
Feds: "Well, gee. Doesn't the DMCA do that already? What more do you want us to do?"
Open source is just as insecure (Score:2)
The open source community is no better than Microsoft and other closed source vendors when it comes to releasing insecure software. The open source community needs to get its act together and use type-safe languages. Continuing to use C and C++ for security-critical software is just plain irresponsible.
Don't give me any of that bologna about good programmers never leaving holes in their software. OpenSSL was audited and still had an exploitable buffer overflow bug. Apache has had a number of security holes. Virtually every major open source program has had multiple security holes.
So what if the open source community patches their software quickly? A patch doesn't negate the fact that a buffer overflow bug never should have happened in the first place. Besides, some of those buggy programs will continue to be in use years from now.
Amusing quote from the Cryptonomicon Blog (Score:5, Funny)
Well, despite all it's security holes, I'd gather this was pretty important from a design standpoint. :)
Re:Amusing quote from the Cryptonomicon Blog (Score:1)
Re:Amusing quote from the Cryptonomicon Blog (Score:2)
I wondered when (Score:3, Insightful)
There have been a few articles now in the press that state there could easily be a terrorist attack on the internet which I merly laughted at but it seems that average joe in the street thinks that a bunch of Afganistan cavemen could seriously achive this.
To me, this is an obvious attempt to censor the internet by using fear tactics which work due to peoples ignorance. I'm tired of this annoying propaganda and manipulation by what is meant to be a government of the people and for the people.
This site is very interesting and certainly worth seeing the other side of the story, maybe this is why censorship is so important?
Regardless, the net doesn't need this "protection" and I wonder if this "protection" is for my benifit in any case.
Re:I wondered when (Score:2, Funny)
With comments like this it's no wonder why we underestimated the capabilities of Al Queda. And to think
Re:I wondered when (Score:3, Insightful)
But I wonder why this brought on such a vicious personal attack? History shows that censorship is only in the best interests of the censor; hence I am not in favour of net censorship by any government. As for "vitrol [sic] and bigotry", I merely state that I find it hard to believe that people living in caves in Afghanistan could launch a serious cyber attack to bring down the entire Internet, of course this only based on a professional judgement but I'll remind you of this quote from one of your earlier Slashdot comments [slashdot.org] "How do I know all this? I'm currently a freelance graphic designer and you better believe I know my shit when it comes to copyright."
As for bigoted, this is an odd context to use of the word, the only meaning here being that I am bigoted towards terrorists, well hey if I'm going to be bigoted maybe terrorists are a better choice than just because of someone's hair colour eh? See another one of your comments. [slashdot.org] Sigh. Initially I thought this was a troll but after looking at your older posts, you seem to have some egotistical need to tell people how incredibly smart you are and how remarkably wrong they are. Congratulations on being the first in my foes list
Earlier post missing this link [whatreallyhappened.com]
Not every enemy lives in a Cave (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe most of these aren't directly terrorists (only supporting of same), but they certainly have intelligence aims and wouldn't mind causing the US economy some dislocations. Continuance of Foreign Policy or War by other means and all that jazz.
And organized crime might love to have access to a lot of wonderful law enforcement data, and lord knows they have the money to hire a few good (well, maybe not good but competent) hackers.
Now, I do agree that the US Gov't is taking advantage of the situation to clamp down on some other things - kinda like Canadian authorities using the invocation of the War Measures act at various times to deal with unrelated but annoying things like street-people, vagrants, etc.
But there IS a threat. Just because you're not getting kicked in the groin every day doesn't mean someone doesn't have it on their list of things to do.
Re:Not every enemy lives in a Cave (Score:2)
And the answer isn't John Edward.
So, why would you want to attack that very same, very useful medium?
Read 1984, Bush seems to be using it as a play book.
Re:Not every enemy lives in a Cave (Score:2)
That said, the threat from the bad guys isn't a fantasy. To treat it as such is foolish in the extreme. The enemy are not all grass-chewing cavemen.
Re:Not every enemy lives in a Cave (Score:2)
And the gov't spends a lot of time and money defending their infrastructure against penetration by the means you describe (with mixed results). They should apply the same diligence to their electronic networks.
Remember, the enemy always strikes against your weakest point. Once you spend time and money toughening up one avenue of attack, there will be a new weak point, a new line of attack, and someplace else that requires your attention. Such is the nature of security work - it requires continued vigilance and focus on a wide range of aspects - organizational, electronic, procedural, etc.
Seems lame (Score:1)
- outlaw spam with serious penalties for offenders
- make all internet relay operators and sys admins legally liable for keeping their systems up to date and locked down.
- migrate AWAY from MS based systems. Security is an afterthought.
I wonder how much input ... (Score:2, Funny)
Eye-candy and Readability (Score:2, Insightful)
"the people" (Score:2)
...for values of "the people" that equal Sony, Microsoft, and the RIAA.
Protect and Defend? (Score:1, Funny)
Well, obviously the fist thing we need to do is get rid of that Megabyte character. Where are Bob, Dot, Matrix, AndrAia and Frisket (especially Firsket!), when you need them?
Wow, slashdotting yourself! (Score:1)
Rejected submission (Score:1, Informative)
This looks like it was compiled after extensive consultations with commercial inter^w^w leading experts. The
recommendations appear to boil down to "1. Use Symantec [symantec.com][tm] and Network Associates [nai.com][tm] Products;
2. Encourage commercial software more secure, then sell it to *everyone*;
3. Train more experts". Am I too cynical, or are they missing
"4. Profit!" ? (Symantec and NAI are apparently doing product
releases to cash in?!) Where does Free software figure in these expert
recommendations? Oh, and privacy concerns have been quietly shelved.
Although... perhaps the news that BGP [techtarget.com] (the Internet's backbone routing
protocol) has vulnerabilities is news outside NANOG-l?
'Good neighborhood'? Who are you kidding? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:'Good neighborhood'? Who are you kidding? (Score:2)
Translation (Score:1)
This is kind of (Score:3, Funny)
Re:This is kind of (Score:1)
What can be done? (Score:2)
(just get the heck off the net already and leave us alone!)
I LOVED This Quote...Heh (Score:1, Redundant)
One of the most annoying features of Outlook Express is that it's default settings make it disgustingly easy for email to travel via email messages.
Well then...how the heck else is email supposed to travel
/. spelling. (Score:3, Informative)
get it right.
"Trustworthy computing" in there? (Score:2)
R4-2 A public-private partnership should perfect and accelerate the adoption of more secure router technology and management, including out-of-band management. R4-3 Internet service providers, beginning with Tier 1 companies or R4-10 The private sector should consider including in near-term research and development priorities, programs for highly secure and trustworthy operating systems. If such systems are developed and successfully evaluated, the Federal government should accelerate procurement of such systems. in software code development, including processes and procedures that diminish the possibilities of erroneous code, malicious code, or trap doors that could be introduced during development. R4-17 The PCIPB s Awareness Committee, in cooperation with lead agencies,
They do realize that "trustworthy computing" name was originared by Microsoft, and has absolutely nothing to do with computer user's security and everything with software companies' "security" from the user, whoever he might be? Don't they?
3300 pages? (Score:2, Interesting)
Federal funding threat to universities? (Score:1)
To Solve the Problem (Score:2)
To prevent half-assed administrators from being susceptible to worms passed over the network, all basic home internet services should be on private IP addresses, via NAT.
No incomming connections so no worms canexploit services like IIS.
There will be no spoofing of IP addresses, so DoS attacks can be tracked down easilly.
ISPs could easilly monitor, trace down, and possibly block abusive machines/servers, so services like subseven would be detected, and can be blocked without stopping legitimate traffic.
Service prices could drop, since fewer addresses are needed.
Of course, there are many reasons that
Yes, e-mail viruses are still a problem... but it wouldn't allow anyone to get remote access to your system.
Re:To Solve the Problem (Score:2)
So, what does the terminology matter?
ice ice baby (Score:1)
how about black ice..implement into every computer along with drm a device to give electric shocks to the user.. orsomething.
Got it covered. (Score:2)
In most of the traditional forms of security, the US Government tends to lead in expertise. The Government understands law. It understands espionage, counter-espionage and intelligence. It understands military issues. And it understands police forces. But information security is something new. It has lagged behind the civilian sector in this field. And no amount of wild hyperbole or cold-war era terminology will help.
This new policy simply demonstrates the issue even more. There is nothing new here. It is all very standard concepts from an industry that has been on the "front lines" of infosec for decades before the US Government decided to take an interest. By now, they have things fairly well covered.
That's not to say the US Government can't be of any help. They can add an air of legitimacy toward infosec issues for those who are foolish enough to ignore the current situation without a nod from the Government. They can support existing infosec infrastructure (and ensure that those programs they already run remain running). They can support further development of security applications and research.
But they can't lead the charge.
Re:slashdot slams whitehouse (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know about you all, but I'm completely sic and tired of the "war on terror" being used by big gov/big business to get everythng they ever wanted at the expense of everyone else.
Re:slashdot slams whitehouse (Score:1)
Y'know, if the idea of M$ handling US national cyberdefence works as badly as it sounds, that'll be one hell of a punishment. "Hackers took down X again - and this time we're damned sure it's a Microsoft issue..."
Re:slashdot slams whitehouse (Score:2, Insightful)
But I agree with your main point. There's an epic power grab going on that puts our future at risk, and we're all watching it happen. One of the real tragedies of the terrorist attacks is it was the beginning of the end of freedom in America.
Re:slashdot slams whitehouse (Score:3, Insightful)
Its absolutely sickening how the right-wing christian fundamentalists nuts used this tragedy to push there own agenda, and the Democrats didn't put up any fight at all... instead they asked how high do you want us to jump?
The pace and breath in which this epic power grab is happenening is totally surreal... no questioning of it on ANY of the main media, cover-ups and wagging the dog rule the day, as we watch the greatest criminals in history take over the world and rob us blind (Enron, Worldcom, Halliburton)... And now they are going after $7 Trillion in Oil in Iraq regardless of what the world thinks. The sure proportions of the power grab are enormous and disheartening to the extreme. Personally I don't see ANY serious counter-trends at all, except very bad ones - more real terrorism in our borders, greater world instability, greater hatred for americans. And to think just three years ago, the future looked brighter than ever. Wow, what a turn-around. This New World Order crap obviously has been in deep and secretive planning for years... I suspect ever Sicne George Senior lost the election in 92.
Re:slashdot slams whitehouse (Score:1)
Re:slashdot slams whitehouse (Score:1)
Re:slashdot slams whitehouse (Score:2, Interesting)
Interesting point. I've been looking into emigration myself. There's just one problem... There's nowhere left to run.
There are no more frontiers. Well, none I can get to anyway. Sure I could disappear into a jungle, or forest, or even the ocean, but I wouldn't really be safe from the forces that made me want to flee. Just ignored, for now. Until the next invocation of "the public good."
There are also no countries I've looked into that don't have the same sorts of state welfare systems, stupid legislatures, corrupt executive branches, and immoral corporations that I desperately want to get away from.
But... If you know of place where there isn't much crime or pollution, where there are no politicians standing in line to be bought by the highest bidder, where the leaders are wise and benevolent, where the people live in harmony and don't mind each other's business, I'd love to know about it. Sadly, I believe such a place only exists in fiction anymore, if it there ever was one.
Belize? (Score:1)
Re:Belize? (Score:1)
If anybody is interested, please post comments or, e-mail me at the mailbox culsu with the domain culsu.net
Re:65 pages? (Score:5, Funny)
Don't worry, the net will be safe for the next 10-15 minutes while all the hackers go get their laughs.