Viruses: More Hype than Danger? 423
blankmange writes "CNN is carrying a story on how the big virus scares within the last year or so have been just that: scares, usually hyped by the media with software companies standing by to reap the profits. 'The market for computer security is booming as PC users become more aware of the need to protect themselves from worms and viruses.
"Code Red" hit the headlines in July last year, with dire predictions that the PC worm would cripple the Internet. Yet in the end, Code Red didn't even make the year's virus Top 10.' PDAs are the next marketing target, along with cellphones."
Scares are enough (Score:4, Interesting)
If people broke into my house one night and left after defacing my home, but didn't take or destroy anything - I'd still be pretty upset. And if it was because I'd left the front door open- I would really think about closing it and installing a lock (or locking it if there was already one that I had just left unlocked).
.
Re:Scares are enough (Score:4, Funny)
Agreed.
After all, "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."
Re:Scares are enough (Score:3, Funny)
I like that story much better, and this is turning out to be a nice little thread here. Sorry to hear about the carpet guy (I'm glad to heat that you sleep with a gun now, I was getting worried about your habbit of sleeping with blowup sheep dolls. [j/k]) I hope the the apartment chick was cute and was into you rimming her. Also, I've never tried to walk around with my pants down, but your right, nothing has ever happened to mr be back there.
I want to thank AC for pointing out the difference in deface and distroy. His/Her examples where right on target, and let me know that defacing an object does not mean to make it completely unusable. Two thumbs up to him, except where he called me a wise ass. I didn't enjoy that part, but as it turns out, he might be right.
sit back and enjoy the rest of your day and thank you for flying NorthSouthern Airlines.
Nimda (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Nimda (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, Code Red was overhyped. But some viruses deserve the strong warnings. It's not like there's huge hype every day about some virus so that you don't even pay attention.
mark
Re:Nimda (Score:2)
Re:Nimda (Score:4, Insightful)
Food for thought.
Re:Nimda (Score:3, Insightful)
I was always thinking this when the Y2K problem came and went. Everybody was saying how important it was and scrambled to try to make things Y2K compliant. Then it hit the year 2000, and almost nothing noteworthy happened. Instead of people saying "Hooray, our hyping and precautionary measures worked!", everybody though "Man! We were getting all excited over nothing! What a waste of time!"
Maybe the fact that these virus attacks seemed lesser than expected is the proof that the hype is good. (Better to err on the side of safety?)
mark
Re:Nimda (Score:2)
We pass those costs on to you when you use our services, rest assured.
Re:Nimda (Score:2)
It's an annoyance, not a problem; my web server is running on a 90MHz Pentium laptop. Of course, I'm running Linux.
Re:Nimda (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Nimda (Score:2)
The good news is that IT has given the webserver responsibility to ME... it's now a fairly secure Linux box that I can play with all I like. q:]
MadCow.
Gotta love your obligatory pro-Linux statement (Score:3, Interesting)
It's funny that I think of the same thing when I see Apache servers that are running everything up to and including mod_YourMom... people need a lesson in security... it doesn't matter if it's IIS or Apache or NT or Linux or Joe's OS.... it makes no difference. Security holes exist in every OS and configuration... it's just the job of the astute sysadmin to make sure that the holes are plugged before the box goes into production use.
Re:Nimda (Score:2)
I worked at a mid size firm when the melissa's and I love you viruses were being passed, and it was incredible how quickly it propagated and shut down the system. there were about 600 employees on that site and within a half an hour 70 percent of the pc's were hit, then mail servers were down for the rest of the day while IT went through and peice by peice removed the virus from individual mail boxes.. Yes viruses like this can be easily prevented but if they propagate faster than IT's ability to send out the word what do you do. I finally convinced IT to filter out all vbs,js scrips via e-mail. if programmers were sending code it was zipped up or sent in an non exicutable format.
Re:Klez.e (Score:2)
cell phone? (Score:2)
Re:cell phone? (Score:2)
You will turn around to hit their children? Or the SUV owner will? Whose children, the virus's or the PDA's? Or the SUV's? Or yours?
The day I get a virus in my body is the day I will hurl myself out the window and onto whoever it was who sneezed on me.
the really ubiquitous virii (Score:2, Interesting)
not the ones that have been hyped.
i remember the ones that used to be really ubiquitous in the DOS/win3.1 days were the boot sector virii... those things were everywhere! and they could be passed on by floppy
Gloom and doom (Score:3, Insightful)
They are the first to predict 18 inches of snow for a storm that produces only six. News sources love reporting gloom, doom and disaster, for it increases viewership/readership.
No one cares to hear "Nothing to see here, movealong".
Re:Gloom and doom (Score:2)
Hype maybe.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Better safe than sorry....
Re:Hype maybe.... (Score:2)
I understand that you are talking from a work perspective, and that in itself is completely different than the private, single user. Even in the work environment, employees either must be educated or have the access restricted - and don't give me the bs about restricting access at work; unless your work necessitates your access, you have no right/entitlement to online access at your jobsite.
The point of the article is that many of the hyped viruses this past year have been basically less than what the media/software companies have made them out to be.
Survival of the fittest? (Score:2)
Besides, in my experience, those who are not the computer-savvy fittest still have lots of pr0n to share. Gotta keep 'em operational.
Re:Hype maybe.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Computers and the Internet are tools. people are suprised when they realize how high maintinence those tools are. I know I was.
Kind of a rhetorical question, isn't it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Think of Y2K: a big deal, yes, and plenty of people were saying right up through January 1999 that something had to be done, and soon, because thousands if not millions of computers and software programs were affected. Eventually, they all got on it. The problem was licked, and virtually no major Y2K issues were still existing by the time the date actually arrived.
Sure, some people overreacted by building underground computer-free bunkers and stocking up on gasoline and bottled water -- but then, there are always people who overreact. Y2K probably wouldn't have caused the end of the world, but it would have been a pretty big nuisance if the media didn't get the word out so that normal people knew to upgrade their products and pressure companies to produce the upgrades for them.
You can't over-hype virus issues. You can lie and say a problem exists that doesn't, but you can't stop stressing that antivirus software and common sense when opening attachments and securing connections is important. There's always someone new to the computing world, or someone who introduces a new attack strategy, which necessitates restating all the rules.
Bottom line: everybody with a computer needs some sort of antivirus protection, even if it's just common sense. Everybody with an Windows PC on the Internet ought to have antivirus software as well, and keep it up-to-date, just because that OS is so susceptible to new attacks.
Re:Kind of a rhetorical question, isn't it? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Kind of a rhetorical question, isn't it? (Score:2)
I can imagine that:
vruschck.exe found a VIrus in teh progam 'openofiice.exe'.
ITs not a microsoft progam so its must be the terorists agan.
PLEase wiat while windos formast yourr particles.
Re:Kind of a rhetorical question, isn't it? (Score:2)
Hmm... who has an idea of what it would be like if the Y2K bug had been kept mum?
Re:Kind of a rhetorical question, isn't it? (Score:2)
I can never tell when I hear (or hear of) that sentiment if the person either didn't understand the issue in the first place or doesn't understand that it was fixed.
Re:Kind of a rhetorical question, isn't it? (Score:2)
Y2K was nothing more than overhyped lies. Even if we did nothing (Like Korea and China and Russia didnt do squat until after and only for the problems) and they didn't explode, revert to the dark ages, sewage flowed into the fresh water pipes, dogs having sex with cats, buildings collapse, toaster try to kill their owners, or all the other pure bullshit touted by the media and "experts".
If we did nothing a few things would have cause some minor inconviences... No, airplanse wouldn start crashing out of the sky... BECAUSE THAT CANT HAPPEN IN THE FIRST PLACE due to a computer failure.
viruses are the same... nothing but overhyped junk... and only because someone hasnt written a good virii that had a deadly payload.
Think about mailissa.. all the writer would have had to do was make it mail out to 10 people and then delete everything on the hard drive. The virii had a chance to propagate and then kill the host.
Virii aren't the problem... Idiots opening every email attachment and installing software are the problem. This is why not one computer in my offices have a floppy drive or cdrom drive, and all scripting is removed on the windows machines and all office products... (OMG I cant have a VB script on my word document??? I'll DIE!!!!) (No java,javascript,ActiveX or flash either)
Why? not for protection from viriuses... but to keep the morons here from doing what they are told not to... Funny... I've had things here locked down like this for 3 months.. the whining has died down and the SAME AMOUNT OF WORK is getting accomplished..
interesting eh?
Re:Kind of a rhetorical question, isn't it? (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, and probably the best way to get it at present is to install FreeBSD. OpenBSD and linux are close behind it.
A curious thing that I keep noticing is that the overwhelming majority of virii and other such perversities are on Microsoft systems. A few are on Macs. People try to wiggle out of this by saying that unixoid systems aren't common enough to be attractive to virus writers. But the first "demo" viruses in the early 80's were on unix systems, and the unix world is infested with hackers. Also, nearly half the cpus in the world are running some unix-like system (including a lot that were sold with Windows, and are listed as Windows machines in the sales figures). The real reason that unix-type systems aren't being hit is that they are much less susceptible.
Similarly, with the Y2K problem, I saw here and there a few comments that almost all the known Y2K bugs were on IBM and Microsoft systems. Cobol programs were at the top of the list of problems at the application level. But the media made very little note of this. They told us that Y2K was a universal computer problem. Well, most people using unix-type systems did nothing much to prepare for Y2K, and nothing much went wrong.
We could use a lot more finger pointing at the systems and software that are sucsceptible to such problems. Maybe then they'd get fixed. But the media is in love with IBM and Microsoft, and goes out of its way to not mention their names when there are problems. So they'll just continue to get away with selling susceptible systems to the gullible public.
We had prototype email viruses 20 years ago. And the solution was known 20 years ago. For Microsoft to continue foisting them on the public is unconscionable.
code red is hype? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:code red is hype? (Score:2, Insightful)
Yea Right.
Code Red just spread itself. The company I work for only shut down email for 3 days trying to clear it out.
Of course nimda was based on code red, and automagically propigates itself also. It's still around. And there are versions that open up your IIS webserver so the propigator can get in with asministrator access. And there's also the fact that a version of the nimda worm is busy looking around the net for vulnerable DNS/SSH access on unix boxes.
Yea, the Code Red is harmless and didn't do any damage. And Corporate America didn't spend $millions$ cleaning up mail servers. And there are not thousands of boxes that hackers have back doors into because of the later Nimda versions.
The moron that wrote this article is an asshole that doesn't know his head from a hole in the ground. But Hey, he got an article published on CNN, so what does it matter.
Maybe Code Red wasn't as bad as predicted... (Score:4, Insightful)
For news sites... they make everything overly dramatic. Maybe that's the problem.
What this article is really addressing IMO is the fact that news sites like to exploit people's fears in order to increase readership/viewership. That's an across-the-board news problem, not a virus problem.
mark
Code Red (Score:2, Funny)
The envelope please... (Score:3, Funny)
The "Top 10 for 2001" they are referring to are listed here [sophos.com].
En español aquí [sophos.com].
Funny, they all seem to have something in common...
Re:The envelope please... (Score:2)
Nimda is still fairly active/destructive (Score:2, Informative)
Viruses pray primarily on the stupid (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm a firm believer in revoking i-net privledges to employees who are stupid enough to send much less open attachments of the exe or macro variety.
Stupidity...Maybe - Ignorance...Definitely (Score:5, Insightful)
Instead of revoking access to users we like to label as "stupid", maybe we as IT Managers, Sys Admins, etc. should spend more time training our people rather than browsing Slashdot all day. : )
Just a thought.
Code Red and other Problems with Hype (Score:3, Insightful)
Really though, I serve as a virus debunker for many of my less than computer literate friends, but it would be nice if there was a public site for this sort of thing, that picked up e-mail hoaxes and displayed them for what they are, meanwhile addressing real problems and how to fix them. There are a couple for the more technologically gifted (such as Norton's anti-viral research labs) but there really needs to be a good "for the average user" site.
Re:Code Red and other Problems with Hype (Score:3, Informative)
There [vmyths.com] you go.
Peter Norton ... (Score:3, Informative)
Look at your Best Buy [boycott!] ad next time it comes. You always see rebates for *NEW!!* AV software and Peter Norton's products.
They never work with the older versions of Windows - and these companies always make a fortune off of new releases of that OS.
So why buy stock in Microsoft when you should be buying it in McAfee and Symantec.
Over Hype (Score:2)
Well, Code Red like exploits are still floating around looking for hosts.
They ought to be considered more like parasites than viruses. But I guess the analogies to biological organisms make for more sensational news.
If you were warned of the Ebola virus on one hand and the dangers of ghiardia in drinking water on the other hand, which would you get more excited about?
I can see the headlines now:
Re:Over Hype (Score:2)
It must be fun working in media (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess then CNN can produce an article about how it wasn't really hype after all and then, after everyone has forgotten about viruses, they can start hyping virus stories again. Then they can have a story about how much they are hyped. And then they can have a story about how there used to be stories about viruses and how they died down and now they've come back.
Endless stories without having to research anything. It must be fun working in media.
Re:It must be fun working in media (Score:2)
Virus notifications are the real viruses (Score:2, Interesting)
Better safe than sorry... (Score:2)
Sorry - I disagree (Score:2)
Then you have to add in the cost of cleaning up the ones that slip through, and the fact that most companies don't report attacks to anyone, and I would have to say the CNN numbers are greatly understated.
sPh
Virtual Myths (Score:2)
This guy has made a whole website about the "myths" of viruses
http://www.vMyths.com
Something smells fishy if a billion dollar business depends on these creations, and who knows more about them and how they work and how to create them than anyone else ?,
consipracy or our friends and saviours ?
Code Red not in top 10? (Score:4, Informative)
Code Red (and derivitaves) were a major pain in the ass. My servers don't run any MS software, but Code Red still affected me. It kept hitting my ports, over and over and over again. That sounds like a minor annoyance, until you are using more than eth0. Think virtual hosting.
I also was lucky enough to have a number of clients that were using Cisco 678 DSL modems. Anyone remember that? Code Red locked them up. Until a patch was applied, they locked up every time they got a Code Red request. I knew of some people that would go and reset the Cisco, and be down again before they got back to their desk.
It may not have been the typical user spread virus, but it made my #1 last year, because I'm not stupid enough to use Outlook.
Doesn't scare me but... (Score:2)
Disclaimer: I worked for a company that produced anti-virus software in the early 90s that was sold to Symantec.
Stupid worms... (Score:2)
Awareness. (Score:2)
Awareness is rising? This is news to me -- also news to my webserver, which has taken 9000+ Nimda hits in the last three months.
Awareness of viruses may be rising, but awareness of how to secure one's own system from them is not.
--saint
You thinkt they're hype until you get hit... (Score:2)
Anyway. Get hit by one, _then_ say that. Someone at my office managed to sneak Klez round the side of a virus checker and we were cleaning that up for a good little while. Not only did it kill our AV software but it blocked it from being reinstalled. Nasty. Not that bright, either - far more sensible to let it get installed but transparently cripple it, so the user thinks they're fine...
Or the time when my Dad got hit by Kak, and the fun we had ripping that out of the registry manually because it had mucked up Norton. Or the many non-PC literate subscribers on a mailinglist I like who get hit by viruses and inadvertently post them to the list every few months on average.
Getting the average user educated about viruses and certain that they need good, up-to-date protection is essential. OK, so _we_ don't often come across them - but we know that some e-mails are intrinsically dodgy (well, many of us don't run Outlook in the first place
I honestly don't see a problem with the current level of virus news and would suggest that CNN's Kristie Lu Stout doesn't know what she's talking about and has never personally got a virus.
smoking crack (Score:3, Informative)
On July 19, 2001 more than 359,000 computers were infected with the Code-Red (CRv2) worm in less than 14 hours. At the peak of the infection frenzy, more than 2,000 new hosts were infected each minute.
That was "over-hyped?" what would it take for it to be "valid concern?" Yes, Code-Red didn't do the damage it intended to...but it still did a heck of a lot of damage. Claiming that some anti-virus nonsense "top 10" has any bearing on the actual amount of damage done is just stupid.
Re:smoking crack (Score:2)
On July 19, 2001 more than 359,000 computers were infected with the Code-Red (CRv2) worm in less than 14 hours. At the peak of the infection frenzy, more than 2,000 new hosts were infected each minute.
That was "over-hyped?"
It was. If you look at the ratio of infected computers to total computers in the world (hundreds of millions), you can see that your chance of infection is very small.
Also, your chance of infection probably depends highly on your e-mail client (Outlook anyone?) and number of people who have your address in Outlook address books. In a Fortune 500 company using Outlook, you're probably facing a far greater risk than sitting at home using AOL. And who is reading the hype? Net admins don't read CNN to learn about virus outbreaks (I hope).
A preview for the age of "ubiquitous computing" (Score:2)
It doesn't work anyway (Score:2, Interesting)
For Example, I work at a university, and we have been recently blocking LAN ports form students that we find to be transmitting a virus. I have already had a loveletter and a klez come in today, and have had 22 nimda viruses come in over the past month. Im sure that theres more out on our network but we dont find out until their machine attempts to infect the server.
Most of the machines have had either Norton on it but not updated to the latest defs, Mcafee activeshield, which is basicially useless, or Mcafee Virusscan that was either not updated becasue no one wants to fill out the 1 page form for it, or is version 4.0 or earlier, which has no def updates.
Lately we've been pointing people to http://www.grisoft.com to get AVG for free from their site, and it helps, but im still getting machines in at a steady pace.
Frankly, I dont think anybody cares if they get a virus until it forces them to format and reinstall, then it gets their attention.
Was the CNN author a Systems Administrator? (Score:5, Insightful)
I would get into work in the morning, read the latest advisory about some new virus. I would send out an e-mail to my users, "DONT OPEN ANY ATTATCHMENTS!" After which I would promptly apply fixes to the mail server.
My CIO would be reading her hotmail or yahoo mail, whatever. Point is it was a mail service outside of my control. She would see the subject, "I love you" and thinking it was a date, she would open it, from which it would spread like mad cow diesease. The rest of my day would be spent cleaning out her crap.
Wasn't this way at just one company, it was this way at every company I have ever worked at. No matter how much you try and warn these people they just don't listen. They have the attention span of a gerbil and it shows. And everytime it would happen I would always get the same answer from them, "But I swear I didn't open that attatchment" To which I would reply, "The computer must have MAGICALLY sprouted hands and fingers and opened the attatchment itself, oh don't forget it also typed in your webmail username and password for you too"
I dunno, being jobless all this time has made me realize a few things. There's no enjoyment in a job where you have to put out fires for 200+ people a day because they're too fucking stupid to figure out simple shit for themselves. They won't ever listen to your warnings, they don't seem to care that you have to spend several hours fixing their machines. They have an obvious lack of understanding that you have to actually concentrate to fix their problems, and this is made apparent by the 15 minute head pops they do into your cubicle, "Is it fixed yet? I have a really important blah blah blah for VIP blah blah blah."
I don't think CNN has any concept of what it's really like out there. The amount of single celled organisms in a corporation is astounding.
I'd mod this guys post up to 5 ! (Score:3, Funny)
DUMB COMPUTER USERS
Fact is, 99% of the world fit that category.
There was an article about designing UI's few days back and all I could think about was my financial partner who has to be told how to minimize a window every time.
The kinda guy that uses a remote email connection to send 10meg word documents to the person in the office next to him, even though all he needs to do is to send locally in 1/100th of the time.
The marketing-type person who leans over your shoulder when your computing and says to a client
"You know, these machines are amazing !"
Yeah - you should see the user jump through hoops of fire !
And we worry about virus problems being over-hyped ?
Screw the viruses,
I can see the headlines now
"Dumb computer users seen as the biggest risk to computer security."
"Symantec announces the anti-dumb-computer-user fix"
Re:Was the CNN author a Systems Administrator? (Score:5, Funny)
...
>
Like, "don't insult your coworkers if you want to stay employed"?
Elitism and the reason why users just don't listen (Score:3, Insightful)
(An open message to all bitter support people, angry at "end users")
(chuckles softly) Ever stop to consider that 99% of the "end users" (they are actually called people, or employees... you know the people we support who do the actual WORK that pays our salaries) out there don't really give a rip about your job frustrations any more than you care about the new IRS guidelines taxing the patience of Phil from accounting... Let's face it, most of what you tell them goes in one ear and out the other. NOT because they have the attention span of gerbils, but because YOU, and so many many like you, have a giant chip on your shoulder. You don't respect the people you work with, you don't appreciate the fact that you have a specialized skill that others don't share. So you talk down to your users, then you talk over their heads, then you talk about things that don't concern them or how they do their job. The signal to noise ratio is such that OF COURSE they won't really listen when you warn about viruses...
Lighten up a little, learn to see the bigger picture, learn to see your co-workers (once you get a job again) with compassion and not this holier than thou crap and I bet you might start to notice a change.
The reason why users just don't listen (Score:2)
You hit the nail on the head! They have enough problems with their own job frustrations.
Every time I hear that AOL commercial and that guy says "no more of that computer mumbo-jumbo" is causes me to shudder - I think "It's not mumbo-jumob, it's easy!" and then I realize to them it is mumbo-jumbo.
So treat is as such. Don't explain to them what viruses do or how they spread, if hotmail is causing problems, I block hotmail. But then again, I can do that. My boss is so comp-illiterate I don't even give him a PC, PDA, terminal - nothing! But when someone complains that they need hotmail, I ask "what business purpose does it serve?" I explain how much a virus outbreak costs the company, and the boss backs me up. End of problem.
Most places I've worked... (Score:3, Insightful)
Most places I've worked, the subsequent 8 laptops would have come out of HER paycheck--a great incentive to be more careful with company property. (The insane paperwork to get *anything* ordered at my current workplace is a good incentive not to wreck your current box, too).
Frankly, as long as it's not coming out of YOUR paycheck, why does her idiocy with laptops spin you up so much? They were still paying you for the work involved, right?
You're laid off, and bitter--I can understand that. Been there, done that a few times. Job searching all over and getting nothing for months on end is incredibly demoralizing. However, you might want to learn to relax and enjoy things a bit more, because that bitterness will show in job interviews. Also, if the job situation is that bad locally, why not search elsewhere? The internet is damn useful for that.
Re:Was the CNN author a Systems Administrator? (Score:2)
I to have lamented [freshmeat.net] about users not participating in the IT process. Some users fail to realize that this is not a one person operation. I cannot help you if you do not help me.
Re:Was the CNN author a Systems Administrator? (Score:3, Interesting)
You obviously don't have any respect for how much burden is layed on a sysadmin. You don't realize when the shit hits the fan we're the one's cleaning up your mess. You just don't know how dumb all those people with the "Chief" something in front of their title (CEO CIO CFO) really are.
Corporate infrastructure would rot without us. We're the one's with the cell phones and pagers as a leash. You whine about how much we get paid? How many sales people are called down to the office at 2:00am because the people with the "Chief" in front of their title decided to pull an all nighter and need you there to show them how to minimize a window. We put in twice the work any of you morons do and we never get recognition for our work.
We have to answer to every department within a company. You are constantly walking on pins and needles because if one person is somehow offended by you telling them they're #10 in the que they throw a political shit fit getting your ass in a sling for not working fast enough. Sometimes you're asked to do things un-ethical like spying on employees. (I had a CEO ask me to spy on one of the girls he was bangin in the office because he thought she was banging another "Chief" You see things like an entire company get purposefully run into the ground so the CEO can hide his dangeruos liason from his wife.
I shouldn't worry about someone breaking 9 laptops in 3 months? You fucking ass, those were dell inspirions, at about 5k each that's 45k for some ditz bitch sales whore to make me work harder when all she had to do was carry it on. 45k COULD have bought another jr. admin. That's another thing too, you see shit like the "Chiefs" spending riduclous amounts of money on themselves and their butt buddies everything from top of the line laptops that will never fully be used to fancy dinners "Outside meetings"
It is that stupid user thinking that money and IT resources just grow on tree's that atrributed at least %30 to the downfall of the dot coms. Yeah go break another 5k laptop you bitch.
Re:Was the CNN author a Systems Administrator? (Score:3, Funny)
Dude, if they could, you wouldnt have a job. Oh wait...
Viruses (Score:2, Insightful)
However, the mechanisms exist in Windows/Outlook to allow a truly vicious and only marginally skilled individual to wipe out a large number of Windows computers. It's just a matter of time before someone takes advantage of this.
uhh... (Score:5, Insightful)
...maybe because Code Red was a worm?
Klez.H is not hype (Score:3, Interesting)
Back in *MY* day! (Score:4, Insightful)
Used to be when you got a virus it would munge your bootsector, and as much of the disk as it could after it mailed itself you all your friends.
The viruses these days just seem to be made to propogate as far as possible, or to do something juvenile like deface web sites.
The only reason they are only hype these days is because the payload is (relatively) innoxious. One line of code could make the few hundred thousand of computers infected last year dead, rather than popping up a cute little message.
Don't worry, the industry's improving (Score:2, Funny)
One line of code? With Microsoft Visual Basic .NET you can do it with only half a line! With SOAP compatability.
Re:Don't worry, the industry's improving (Score:2)
while(1){
~My_Computer();
}
Re:Back in *MY* day! (Score:2)
--Blair
Recent Viruses Nastiest for non-Windows Users (Score:2)
Fortunately, RR appears to deactivate accounts that are virus-ridden if no action is taken, which reduces the problem. Still, my Mac OS firewall dutifully records Code Red and Nimda attacks as well as the usual crackers trying to crack the very-difficult-to-crack Mac OS.
Thanks, Microsoft, for introducing software that helps inconvenience EVERYONE on the Internet.
CodeRed != Virus; CodeRed == Worm (Score:2, Informative)
With that said, it only makes sense that CodeRed (a worm) wouldn't make the top ten list of viruses. I doubt any true worm could ever make some top ten list when compared with large virus infections. Viruses infect workstations (PCs) while worms (generally) infect servers. Last time I checked, there were a whole lot more PCs than servers, thus a much bigger chance of infection. Furthermore, CodeRed's (a worm) impact was limited by that wonderful thing called Open Disclosure. No, M$ will never admit to this, but as a security professional who does network security monitoring, I know my clients would have been severly impacted if signatures hadn't been available for our sensors (insert shameless plug [snort.org]) a month prior to CodeRed (a worm!!) being released. Virus signatures, on the other hand, tend to be created after a virus has been let loose in the wild and has already impacted users.
Bammkkkk
Code Red did cripple the internet. (Score:2)
How can anyone look at numbers like that and say it's not a problem? I find the numbers absolutely shocking...
Basically if I buy something from a website, I want to make sure it does not run on IIS. In that sense Code Red crippled many sites for me because I am not able to use them anymore.
Re:Code Red did cripple the internet. (Score:2)
Code Red and Nimda actually did a bit more than that. See this report on global router instabilities [renesys.com] during the Code Red and Nimda peak activity periods.
I'm not really thrilled with how that report words things, but then I don't really understand BGP and global routing. The interesting conclusion:
Once MSFT does dominate the Internet 100% we can expect this sort of thing to happen all the time:
- A computing monoculture will allow 100% susceptiblity to whatever exploit-of-the-day comes around. For Code Red, only about 30% of all web servers were susceptible.
- MSFT does protocol design very poorly, and documents it in even worse fashion. BGP is publicly documented, and it still has weird beard problems with tons of traffic. Imagine what some hacked-out, irregular piece of crap protocol like CIFS might do.
- Security information will go back to living only in the shady underground. "Responsible disclosure", as advocated by MSFT toadies, will keep any and all security bugs from public knowledge.
This combination of factors will result in emergent behvior that nobody will understand. Networks will go up and down like a window shade, without warning and without apparent provocation.Simple solution! (Score:2)
I recommend the following levels:
GREEN: Open any file or email attachment with inpunity
YELLOW: Don't open any attachment that contains a virus
ORANGE: Don't open any email client
RED: Turn off your computer
They can send an email each morning (or whenever the status changes) to all computer users so we know how to gauge the virus threat and take appropriate measures.
My argument... (Score:2, Insightful)
The fact is that the reason that the threat level from viruses is down is because more people are more aware and are taking preventitive measures. This reduces the spread of viruses in the wild but it does not stop them. I would argue that the fact that the spread of serious attacks being down demonstrates that what is being done is at least partly effective.
I'd also argue that even more still needs to be done. I'd suggest that when a company learns of an exploit involving their software, it is their responsibility to address it sooner rather than later - that by not doing so, they are part of the problem. I'd suggest that companies that allow the use of their resources by whatever means (ie:open relay, unfiltered email, access to systems and etc) also have responsibility. But most of all, I would argue that the vandals that write and knowingly distribute the software should be treated as felons and given appropriate sentences.
Even the aforementioned actions would not eliminate the need for protection in the form of secure systems, antivirus software, and due dilligence on the part of the user. But when all of these things are combined, we can keep the situation tolerable.
Just wait... (Score:2)
Imagine what the impact would be, however, of a virus that spreads as effectively as Code Red, but formats the hard-drive after 48 hours? (Or perhaps after it's infected a certain number of machines?)
There were plenty of IIS machines that were infected for a good deal longer than 48 hours before their owners became aware of it. Hell - my boxes at home still receive hundreds of Code Red probes.
The flow of IIS vulnerabilities doesn't seem to be drying up - it may well only be a matter of time before someone writes something that's really malicious. Growing complacent because the computer press has cried wolf so many times is incredibly dangerous.
Code red, nimda etc (Score:2)
p.s. karma's at 50 don't bother moding up
Code Red / Nimda not a problem eh? (Score:2)
My error.log file is 50 (Fifty) megs. Since January. 2002.
Lots of entries look like this, with some variations. I also appreciate skript kiddies trying to run root.exe on my box.
[Wed Apr 24 10:44:21 2002] [error] [client 4.35.125.66] File does not exist: *:/****/msadc/..%5c/..%5c/..%5c/..Á/..Á/..Á/win nt/system32/cmd.exe
I'd say that the main problem is not that the virus actually does anything harmful, but that their box is broadcasting to random ip's "hack me" and that person's hdd is shared with full perms and that if a script kiddie wanted to delete all files on the lamer's machine, they probably could, theft of corporate info (i.e. if someone works at home) is also really easy.
awful (Score:2)
Travis
Angina is not pain, it's the fear of pain (Score:2)
From the Future (Score:3, Interesting)
The reporting was hyped all out of proportion. Every hour on the hour there was a public service announcement regarding it. Major troop movements in the Middle East were relegated to the back page in favor of reporting on some kid with a runny nose on page one.
The public went into a panic. People went and got their flu shots. The covered their mouths and noses when the coughed or sneezed. They didn't go into work when they had the sniffles. They stopped french kissing with strangers.
But there was no outbreak. A total of five people died of the Faux Flu. The people blamed the media for inciting panic. Newspaper subscriptions plummeted and Disney Megacorp had to sell off AOL/TW to stay afloat.
Then the Fu Flu hit the next year. No one believed the media. No one took their flu shots. Sneezing in crowded train stations was considered hip and cool, a way of telling the doommongers to bugger off.
And 1.3 billion people died.
W32.Klez (Score:2)
It's very disturbing to get bounces from hotmail because you supposedly sent someone a virus. (No, I don't have it; all my e-mail reading and sending is done from a Linux box and its a Windows/Outlook worm.)
The virus ecosystem (Score:3, Interesting)
It's important to the revenue stream of the anti-virus companies that their products not work very well. Note how these things work. They mostly recognize known viruses. They don't generally stop improper behavior by all possibly-hostile content. Hence, constant upgrades are necessary. The initial version is usually free, just like a drug dealer.
It doesn't have to be this way. Suppose, for example, that Mozilla rendered all pages and executed all downloaded content in a "jail" secured by the OS, one that could write to the window, receive input when it has the focus, and talk back to the sending server, but nothing else. This could work under FreeBSD as currently shipping; Linux may get there.
Re:The virus ecosystem (Score:2, Informative)
Not totally true. Look at April's wild list [wildlist.org]. Form.A [nai.com] is on the list and has existed for over 10 years.
They don't generally stop improper behavior by all possibly-hostile content
Because behavior blocking doesn't work. It is difficult to distinguish between malicious behavior and things that users want and need to do. Too many false alarms => software disabled.
Education is good (Score:2, Insightful)
Where is it when you need it? (Score:2)
--Blair
cell phones already have viruses (Score:2)
Best Anti-Viral Software? The Outlook Uninstaller (Score:3, Insightful)
When people ask me about viruses, I always tell them to use something besides Outlook and they will be fine. And they are.
For 98% of the people out there, the damn anti-virus software is more of a hassle than the viruses they can't catch. The bloat in security software puts MS to shame. All you need is Norton anti virus to show the kids what a 386 was like. Slooooowwwww.
The only way you can get a virus nowadays, is to start up Outlook. I do not understand why the corporate IT guys, for whom these high-profile worms are a genuine headache, do not sue MS. By pretty well insisting on having scripting 24/7 in all their apps, they have created a royal road into anyone's box. The patches they offer are laughable. The house is on fire, and when a bit of flame shows in the front window, MS generously rushes up with a glass of water.
It's Michalangelo all over again! (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course, things are different now. In the DOS heydey (including Windows pre-95), most viruses we re textbook viruses. Today, more of them should be defined as trojans and worms. There's no worm that you can see and say "well isn't that cute" as they all are quite damaging in terms of bandwith utilization. But there were/are many true viruses that are not damaging... or not damaging if caught in time. We all like fire, but nobody likes getting burned.
Now, back to the subject. Michaelangelo. Back when it was news some ten (egads!) years ago, McAffe was warning everyone of the impending doom. That year there were many people who lost data, but nowhere near as large as some people had believed. To be fair to the AV experts at the time, most of them gave a range from the small to the abnormally large- but guess which figure reporters used to sell papers?
So, life went on, and nobody was afraid about Michaelangelo anymore. Well, this poor sap was hit by it the *second* time it delivered it's payload (March 6th 1993). I lost of a lot of data that day, and boy was I surprised. Ironically, the data I miss the most is a copy of the virus itself. We all love fire, but we don't love getting burned.
Studying the interesting viruses was, and is, a really educational and enjoyable thing to do. I do not encourage people to distribute viruses. It's a dick thing to do. But there are plenty out there, and they'll forever live in databases like VSUM and whatnot. The game of virus authors versus AV authors is largely over; but it's still neat to see how different viruses copied themselves, and even more interesting the cryptic lines of text that can so often be found in infected executables.
Call me a hopeless virus romantic (not the VD kind), but I still think that's cool.
And holy crap, I just realized that the slashdot blackout already started. I apologize, didn't realize this before I typed this all up.
Depends on your opinion... (Score:3, Interesting)
If the past year's viruses were all hype, I have to wonder how serious a virus has to be before they actually claim them as dangerous.
Thanks to SirCam, I personally received two documents from Fortune 500 companies (which were infected) with draft proposals for new products and the markets they were targetted for. I get to know the plans of a big company even before their CEO does.
Thanks to CR/Nimda, I get to see at least 100 probes a day trying to get to my personal web server. On more active days, that number is more like 500. And this is now, over 8 months after the virus was at its peak.
I know of at least a few administrators (that work at various companies) that had to put in about a week to get the "I love you" virus under control. And that virus didn't even have a nasty payload.
Mind you, they could have been much worse. The simple fact is that most of these viruses were born from stupid bugs (which in most cases were simply overlooked) and hence were somewhat easier to fix.
Re:With Microsoft Swooping in to Save the Day (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Misnomer (Score:2)
Re:Obligatory Conspiracy Theory of the Day (Score:2)
The "A-V" people deny this sort of theory with perhaps a bit too much vigor. See The Virus Creation Labs [amazon.com] by George Smith.
Also, the "A-V" people really do depend [vmyths.com] on a constant stream of new viruses, trojans, worms, chainmails, etc. They've got a distinct conflict of interest going on.