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USPS To Offer Free E-Mail 324

Posted by timothy from the I-get-mail-more-reliably-from-AOL dept.
RobHornick writes: "Supposedly, the US Postal Service is going to begin offering free e-mail addresses to all 120 million of the nation's residential addresses. MSNBC thinks it could be 'the most efficient spam delivery tool ever created.' I don't know, but their business model certainly seems like it would be selling the addresses to mass-marketers, who probably wouldn't mind not having to pay 33 cents per letter." I love programs run by the government the signing up for which "would be strictly voluntary." But don't worry about the security of that data or any privacy implications: Deputy Postmaster General John Nolan says "We'll be as secure, or more secure, than other sites in terms of the privacy people can expect from us."
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USPS To Offer Free E-Mail More

USPS To Offer Free E-Mail

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  • The address does not have to be exact. They could use pattern matching so:

    John_Smith-123-elm-kalamzoo-mi-48330@usps.gov
    someone-123-elm-mi-48330@usps.gov

    would both go to the same place. Actually you probably only need the street address and zip.

    You (the recipient) would either recieve a printed copy in the mail (postage due?), or would register an email forwarding address with the USPS.

    -josh
  • The "bulk rate" stuff funds them a lot too. Those offers for VISA cards you don't want generate a lot of income for the postal service.

    Does anybody else recall the Seinfeld episode when Kramer, angry about junk-mail catalogs, wanted to discontinue his mail completely? I've come awful close to trying the same thing myself on several occations. :)

  • Addressing? (Score:3)

    by 1010011010 ( 53039 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @11:59AM (#890932) Homepage
    homer.simpson@742.evergreen-terrace.springfield.il .us? Or what?

    (not that they're really in Illinois)



    ---- ----

  • Re:Sure, why not! (Score:4)

    by thesparkle ( 174382 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @11:30AM (#890936) Homepage
    Couple of years ago in Chicago a group of nine postal workers were caught after running thousand of pounds of mail through a clearing house where they were pillfered and dumped.

    Specifically, they were looking for correspondence between migrant workers here in the US and their families in Mexico and Central America. Seems these workers had a habit of putting cash in their letters home for their families and there was a large enough concentration of migrants in Chicago to make this profitable. When they were caught, they had a three bedroom apartment full to the ceiling with missing mail.

    A similar case happened in Florida around the same time.

    My father in law works for the postal service so I hear these sort of stories often. However, considering the amount of mail delivered and the regular level of service this organization maintains, they actually do a pretty good job. Far better than their counterparts in other countries.
    .33 will send a message to anyone in the US in less than a week. Pretty good, really.

    As for millions of Americans gaining access to email, there are more free internet services out there than ever before; many people do not have email addresses because they choose not to or do not see a need for it. The postal service wants to enter another market just like they did in the overnight delivery service. They just take a little longer to get mobilized.

  • Re:At least with snail mail... (Score:3)

    by asmussen ( 2306 ) <asmussen@c o x . n et> on Monday July 31, 2000 @11:30AM (#890937)
    Oh, God, how bad off do you have to be before you aspire to be 'as respectable as telemarketing'? :)
  • I'd have to agree with MSNBC's evaluation of the "spam-factor" such a service would have. Anyone with a somewhat common hotmail account knows exactly how spammers work when it comes to domains that have a TON of users. Their addressing methodology goes a little something like this:

    TO: [anything-that-remotely-resembles-a-possible-name] @hotmail.com

    I know this for a fact since I have never EVER given out or even used my hotmail address, yet I get over 30 pieces of spam there a day. MSN Messenger keeps me aware of this every time I load it.

    Now with this Postal Service plan, you can damn sure bet that some slime ball who owns a "residential" database of all the millions and millions of residential addresses will in fact find a way to convert that to email addresses based on the physical address itself, then sell it to the highest spammer bidder. Hell, how hard is it to realize that resident@100-Main-St.New-York.NY.uspo.gov will end up in someone's inbox?

    I for one will choose to be UNLISTED just as I choose to be unlisted in the phone book, if that *is* an option ... which I doubt it will be.

    Besides, the Postal Service makes TONS off of junk mail, why would they decline the option to let people SPAM their users after all? I had a P.O. Box one time and I got all sorts of stupid flyers, leaflets, etc. from day 1 ... I took them to the postmaster at my local branch and said "I don't want these in my P.O. Box, take me off the list ...", he said "Sorry, we have a contract with those advertisers to put one of those in each P.O. Box, you CAN'T opt-out."

    Now I'm with Mailboxes ETC for obvious reasons.
  • as a government agency, the USPS wouldn't be able to filter spam. Spammers could complain that it's governmental prior restraint to filter their unsolicited ads.

    They could certainly filter spam, the same way they can currently filter bulk-rate mail if you ask them to. Most people aren't aware that the P.O. has a form that permanently removes your address from bulk mailing lists.

  • Its not that bad. First class is $0.33 and a typical photocopy is $0.10 per page, so its not an outrageous markup, especially since it includes an envelope and delivery to the premises. It allows you to get a hardcopy page to somebody in a few minutes (who may not have a computer) for a bit more than the cose of s-mailing a photocopy. I remember some of the early service providers (circa 1985) were offering the same services.

    I personally don't worry a lot about the security issues. At least it is protected by federal mail-tampering laws, whichis more than can be said for what might be sent via, say, a similar service run on an MS.net thingy where the only protection is their word.

    The feds are already able to read your mail, if they have a search warrant. The semi-e-mail isn't necessarily any easier to access. The page can be printed and stuffed in an envelope without human intervention (do you think the electric bills are hand stuffed and read by utility workers?).

  • They seem pretty efficient at making money. iirc they don't use any tax dollars. And frankly, USPS does a heck of a lot better at package delivery than UPS, Fedex gives them a run for it but at exorbitant pricing.

    What better place to do stamp collection promotions that the post office? And the convenience of postal money orders is nice.

    Come to think of it, I don't have a gripe with the post office except for slow lines.

  • What the canadian postal service did. (Score:3)

    by jmv ( 93421 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @11:32AM (#890946) Homepage
    When the canadian postal services discovered e-mail. The offered a free encrypted e-mail account to every canadian. ...but you can only send e-mail to someone with a Canadian Post e-mail account... kind of useless. It's been at least a year, and I haven't heard of that since then. I think it probably dead and buried.
  • Like Drivers License files, Voter Registration Lists, Poll books, etc.

    Conscience is the inner voice which warns us that someone may be looking.

  • Internet companies and e-mail providers hear alarm bells in the Postal Service's plans to offer free e-mail accounts. "They're using their monopoly to fund these new offerings. That's not a fair circumstance to have to compete under," says Jason Mahler, vice president of public policy at the Computer and Communications Industry Association, which represents Internet companies including Yahoo! Inc. and Intuit Corp

    ...and presumably Microsoft and their MSN interests. And where is the article? At MSNBC.

    Isn't the real reason for this attack on the proposal that Microsoft has failed to monopolise this market? The MSN offering has completely flopped and has not captured the public's imagination, whereas Microsof saw it as yet another monopoly for them.

    I doubt Microsoft has any concerns over privacy. I think they just don't like the competition. They want this market.

    ---

    "Where do you come from?"

  • god... (Score:3)

    by Phexro ( 9814 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @10:50AM (#890950)
    yeah, and year from now, they'll be charging you $.33 per mail. it will take a week to be delivered, assuming that your message was not in the 25% that get lost every day.

    joy.

    =--- - - .
  • They already have jurisdiction over e-mail chain letters that ask the recipient to mail cash to the sender. You can send copies of e-mail chain letters to the regional postal inspection service office. I used to do this with all of the MMF spam.

    That is the reason some con artists ask their victims to send their cash or check via Federal Express instead of the USPS.

  • True story. Back in 1997 I changed my address. I went to the USPS web site and printed out a change of address form, then I had to take it to the post office and hand it in. Strange that they wouldn't accept online submissions.

    Anyway, I get up to the counter, and hand the guy the form. He immediately says "what's this?" I tell him it's a change of address form. He looks at me like I'm from Mars. I tell him that it's a legitimate form for address changes. He tells me that it doesn't look like any form he's ever seen. I tell him that I got it off the internet.

    Then he practically yells at me "I DON'T KNOW NOTHIN' ABOUT THE INTERNET!!!!!!"

    I didn't know there were so many Gone with the Wind fans working at the USPS! Geez.

    I convinced him that it would be a fun experiment to pretend the form looked like a normal form and submit it just like the other forms are normally submitted. He didn't seem happy about it, but my address got changed.

  • Worried about security? Then don't use this system.

    --

  • They already root through greeting cards looking for cash, let's give them complete access to our e-mail.

    And you know they'll do something stupid like make our home address our e-mail address.

    "Yeah, send it to my private e-mail account at 1242main.cleveland.oh@usps.gov"

  • It is funny that the USPS needs to bend over backwards to get customers these days. Now, they want to set you up with e-mail to justify their size. People are going through private carriers and other services these days, it's not just the internet. The USPS is a great service and all, but they are a federal business, why should they compete for customers? It's not like they will make more or less money this way. Still, it is a good idea, simply because if everyone has an e-mail address, good things should happen. What happens when we run out of USPS.gov e-mail addys? I mean, I'll probably have 19128232 after my last name as my e-mail. Lots to consider. Should be interesting... Good... They'll work on that. Whatever they develop coming out of this will have to be useful, if it is to work at all...

  • right...

    Canrt wait untli the congresscritters decide that everyone needs to have an email adress in order to do stuff like - file taxes, collect social security... that kind of stuff...

    Maybe this could be used for legal-binding type of stuff... Positive ID for everyone... binding like signatures... No more anonymity...

    Oh yeh - look at those black helicopters...


    tagline

  • A simple solution to the Spam problem (Score:3)

    by fm6 ( 162816 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @12:57PM (#890964) Homepage Journal
    As a central deliverary point, the PO would be in an ideal situation to implement a simple Spam filter. Here's how I'd do it:
    1. Have the forwarding system recognize three classes of email: no digital signature; signed with a individual's digital signature; signed with a bulk-mail signature.
    2. Anybody can register an individual DS, but has a reasonable limit on the number of messages they can have forwarded per day (say, 100).
    3. Anybody can register a bulk-mail DS, with no limit on the number of messages they can have forwarded.
    4. The forwarding system uses a filter specified by the recipient. The user can block or allow all mail in any of the three categories. Also, the user can block or allow all mail from specific senders in the DS categories.

    Bells and whistles: you'd have to have some way to prevent spammers from using multiple DSs to circumvent filters and/or the limit on individual-class email. (Deliberate delays in issuing DS certificates? Extensions of Mail Fraud laws?) You would probably want each bulk-mail one (1) chance to contact any given recipient, so (for example) you don't unintentionally filter out mail a customer service department for your favorite ecommerce site (a problem I currently have with Yahoo's Spam filter).

  • "It would link the e-mail and real-world addresses in a giant Postal Service database"
    ...

    (1) Is this something that they should be advertising as a good thing?
    (2) Why, when I read this, do I involuntarily shiver...

  • Re:And the performance to boot... (Score:3)

    by tbo ( 35008 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @12:07PM (#890968) Journal
    When you live in a small town or other remote place, you're making a choice to do without some amenities of big cities... Having to pay a bit more for FedEx pickup doesn't seem unreasonable. What does seem wrong is expecting city-dwellers to subsidize you so you don't have to drive to Denver.

    Before you flame my ass, I used to live on a small (~10,000 people) island. There are a lot of perks, and a few drawbacks. It's a choice.

    Just so this isn't completely OT, I'd like to point out that the Canadian government already has a system by which every Canadian can get a secure electronic mailbox (they're almost paranoid about the security--they snail-mail you your user ID and password in seperate envelopes). You can use it for bills or other forms of communication email isn't secure enough for...
  • Yeah, but just wait until you have 5 billion different email addresses to differentiate from. I think email addresses are going to become more and more complicated than you think...

  • Let's calm down the spamming fears... (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The poster said:

    >I don't know, but their business model certainly seems like it would be selling the addresses to mass-marketers, who probably wouldn't mind not having to pay 33 cents per letter

    The USPS said:

    >The Postal Service insists it is planning a no-spamming system.

    The facts are:

    >Federal law prohibits the Postal Service from selling any of its consumer information.

    >and [the USPS] says it won't share any of the data with a third party unless it receives a federal warrant.

    I dunno, but it looks (to me) like the USPS threw about the idea of selling it's list to "spammers", figured out that was a bad idea (possibly illegal), and has decided to keep the database to itself.

    I think I'll believe the USPS, since it appears it is under the thumb of federal laws about these issues...

  • Here's a better idea (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Since the USPS is more or less a governmental agency (loosely speaking), and since we all know how well our government agencies tend to fsck-up anything and everything they touch, why doesn't the USPS just buy AOL??? I mean, surely in an election year the Postmaster General can get the goober-heads in D.C. to (mis)appropriate a few billion extra dollars. OK, so maybe the gummit will have to buy a few less Stealth Bombers, but hey, a few hundred laid-off workers at Lockheed-Martin is a small price to pay for sea-to-shining-sea email. (OK, maybe it's not Lockheed-Martin).

    So Uncle Sam buys AOL. Of course, they'll have to change the name to prevent any misunderstanding or confusion with AOL's previous identity. The new name should be USPS Rapid Inter-Net Email (URINE). Eventually, of course, the Library of Congress would get jealous of all the power that the USPS bought, so the LoC would start spamming all the URINE folks to go visit the newly opened Federal Electronic Carrier of American Literature (FECAL) servers (all running Win2K, as is fitting). But to make sure the FECAL folks weren't abusing their spamming authority, the FBI would monitor their activities via the FBI Offices OnLine (FOOL) which would be running on the FBI's super-secret, high-powered Mail Online Rapid Observing Network (MORON). Not to be outdone, the Bureau of Standards would have to dictate the successor to IP v7, since most folks using URINE will be accessing from dusty VT220s in public libraries. The Standard Terminal Universal Protocol Identification Division (STUPID) would make sure that all the VT220s could properly connect to the URINE servers to visit the FECAL site.

    (That's all. my brain can't do anymore acronyms today)

    (well, one more) There's a university in Texas named the Texas Women's University (TWU). Whatever happened to the Texas Women's Agriculture and Technology School???


    Windows is dead!
    Long Live Tux!!!

  • Re:And the performance to boot... (Score:3)

    by Battra ( 65036 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @11:37AM (#890975)
    The biggest shock for me was seeing that they plan a new service where they will print your email and deliver it to your house for $.41 per piece! That's a 25% premium over first class mail.

    In addition to the charge, this also means that they will be accessing and (presumably) reading all your mail for you.

    I don't wear a tinfoil hat, and I don't fear the government but I do not want the postal service correlating my physical and email addresses any more than I want my mailman reading my email.
  • Local post offices will make paper printouts of e-mail messages and deliver them with the snail mail, charging the sender about 41 cents for a two-page document -- an eight-cent premium to first-class mail.

    Who will pay 41c for the privilege of relieving the USPS of a significant part of their burden? Is the cost of mass printing and mass envelope-stuffing really about 20 cents per piece?

    I can see for a small-time marketing operation, or other small-volume users, the price being worth the effort, but for the mass-mail spammers who send out millions of pieces, and only pay about 20c a piece postage right now, is it worthwhile? After all, will you be able to get decent graphics? You'll only get two pages, and most solicitations run longer these days.

  • No kidding. My prediction: this will become your "official government email address" just like your SSN and you're going to HAVE TO USE IT!

    Why? Because when it becomes apparent that nobody is using it initially, USPS officials are going to go crying to Capitol Hill and get this, Congress IS GOING to pass laws stating that official government notifications like: tax liens, notification of tax audits, draft registration, etc. can be sent via email and ONLY TO YOUR OFFICIAL government address.

    I'm serious folks, this is really going to suck, because now you're going to be tagged in cyberspace whether you like it or not. When you have to use this damned address to get official government email, it's all going to be an open festival for whoever just like your Social Security number is now.

    ---------------------------------

  • If you don't want or need USPS email, fine, don't sign up. I know I certainly wouldn't have any good use for it. But does that mean nobody could or would want to use it?

    I think the interesting part of the proposal is having portals at post offices; people who don't have a computer could then communicate with all their friends using email. A lot of people buy a computer just so that they can use the internet and email. I think they might appreciate it if they didn't have to throw away money on something with such limited use to them.

    My grandfather for instance got a computer a while back mainly because people told him the internet and email was great. He's not exactly enthralled by it but he does email people occasionally. I wouldn't say that the computer was a waste of money, but a free alternative would probably have been preferable.

  • Follow the: money, bullets, and trees (Score:4)

    by c.jaeger ( 30528 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @11:39AM (#890982) Homepage
    The article states...
    Experts estimate the Postal Service stands to lose $17 billion a year by 2008 to
    e-mail and online bill payment -- a figure equivalent to one-quarter of its annual income.
    A better statement would be to say that, "...email and online bill payment stands to reduce the unneeded expense of USPS growth by one-third. The added benefit is that the virtual email post offices never close, unlike the 9-5 windows at your local branch."

    As an online bill payment type person, I'm probably posting about 5-8 fewer letters each month because Visa automatic drafts my checking account to pay my Visa credit card. And I also have already setup my Visa so that it pays all my utilities, rent, loans, and purchases

    There is also a side-benefit in human lives saved. Fewer postal employees means a reduced population of psychos in the mail room which "go postal". ;)

    The tree huggers should also be happy since fewer customers will drive their SUV to queue up at the local post office to send stuff in the mail or buy stamps. Because the "experts" believe $17 billion isn't going towards additional mailbox fodder and the resources required to get it there. (stamps/envelopes/return address labels/jeeps/semis) that $17 billion can then be used to fund GreenPeace, The Sierra Club or Shave the Whales.

  • Not only that, but you can get seriously shitcanned for mail fraud. Interrupting and intercepting mail that is not addressed to you is a federal offense. We're not talking nickel and dime prison sentences here either. I happen to think that USPS email is a great idea. It would bring regulation to the email system.

  • "Spammers could complain that it's governmental prior restraint to filter their unsolicited ads."

    Actually, this is a Good Thing(tm). I say, let the spammers have a go at it. Because if they do, then there's going to be a lot of angry people complaining about paying X amount of dollars for the delivery of those e-mails for porn and marketing scams. And if that happens, then maybe the government will be clued in on the problem of spam, and outlaw it outright.

    But then again, a lot of spammers claim to filter out .gov addresses. But then again, these are spammers we're dealing with here :)

    --

  • Really, if I was going to pick any agency to set up a national e-mail system and maintain it, the USPS seems like a great choice.

    I'm finding it hard to believe all the negative comments about the postal system that we're getting here. Think about how efficient and quick they usually are -- the prices are very low, and they'll usually get letters and packages across the country in two or three days. Out of thousands or maybe tens of thousands of pieces of mail I've recieved, only a small handful has gotten lost. Their performance record is stellar.

    There are very few places in the world that have a postal system anywhere near as good as ours. Most governmental agencies are monsters that do more harm than good, but the USPS really works. I think that it's great that the government is realizing that having an e-mail account should be just as natural as having your own snail-mail box. Maybe it'll turn out well, and maybe it won't -- but it certainly can't hurt you, and has the potential to do a lot of good.

  • i like the idea of the .gov trying to get every citizen of the country connected to the internet - i am frightened by the thought of the poor being left even more behind as communication becomes intimately linked to (still very, very expensive, in the scheme of things) technology .

    admit it, /.ers, our community is an expensive and very very elete one, on a socioeconomic scale.

    this said, i am not sure the PO giving out email addresses is really a big step forward. one would still need internet access, and a computer, and if you can afford that, well... Ok, it's better than hotmail, in that you don't have to pay via banner-ad-attention schemes.

    what i would really want to see is a lot more free internet access, computer grants to underprivileged kids, etcetera (sure, sponsored by the .gov, that's the kind of stuff i want to see MY tax money going to...)

    what i really like, though, is the fact that they are printing out the email and delivering it to the door. that is what i call a cool mutant technology. Once upon a time, XeroxPARC (i think) devloped a system where you would send a fax to a computer, get a fax back on which you could check some boxes, write some commands, fax it back, get another one back with the information you requested and some more options, rince, repeat... imagine surfing slashdot today via fax... weird shit.
    adrien cater
    boring.ch [boring.ch]

  • Well, I happen to be involved with this project. Let me offer a few thoughts, but remember that I'm not advocating anything just because of who pays me.

    First, the whole spam problem. I don't know about you, but I get shitloads of spam mail in my mailbox. I mean, I'm having to take out my trash all the time, because it's filled with all of this crap. So, for you to get "spam email," it would be replacing spam you would already be getting. Read that twice; the only way to have email delivered to this mailbox is if:
    1. You give this address to someone, or it gets confiscated in the same manner your present addresses can be (protect your email addresses better).
    2. Someone was going to send you spam mail to your mailbox, since they had to know your physical mailing address first, not just your email address.
    While I think both methods are extremely annoying, it's a hell of a lot simpler for me to press the 'D' key in pine than it is to chuck a handful of crap in the trash, hoping nothing important is lost in the process. Sometimes "real" mail gets lost in the midst of all the crap, and you mistakenly trash it. I'd jump at the chance to be able to set up a filtering system for *all* of my spam mail.

    Think of it this way, it is illegal for the USPS to abuse its strict privacy policy, so all you'd have to lose by getting one of these email addresses is you can cut down on your physical junk mail. Hell, don't even use your USPS account., then you can be sure *everything* sent there is trash. Treat it like a virtual /dev/null. It can't hurt. Sure, some marketing companies will just send crap to both places, but if you never check the USPS account, who cares?

    As for privacy, the USPS is really good at keeping information safe. Sure, they've got dumb slogans like "Is it secure? Of course! It's the United States Postal Service!" All those spammers get your mailing address from somewhere aside from the USPS, though, and the same would apply to an email account sponsored by them. If you can't keep from displaying your email address everywhere to be spammed, it's your own fault. I know I've got email accounts that have been in use for years at home with no traces of spam mail. You can't blame all your problems on other people/organizations.
  • Until recently, the Postmaster General was a cabinet level officer who reported directly to the President of the United States. There were some congressmen who got the brilliant idea to try and convert this bloated governement agency into a for profit company (so they wouldn't have to be pouring piles of money to subsidize it).

    For example, things they used to do (at least in rural early 20th Century America):
    • Process Passports (they still do... sort of)
    • Enlist in the military
    • Posting of "official" documents like new law, forclosures, bankruptcies, ect.
    • Savings accounts (yes, like a bank)
    • Foriegn currency exchange


    The fact was, the local postmaster was a federal officer who could act in behalf of the government, and usually did when nobody else was available in small towns. Yes, in big cities that wasn't always the case, but it has been mainly since WWII that most Americans live in large cities or suburbia.

    Even now the USPS still has much of this authority. The budget of the USPS is still a part of the annual federal budget, and every postmaster has to be approved by an act of congress. (Yeah, their names usually get read off in empty chambers, together with the names of all the graduates from the military academies and ROTC programs when they get comissioned officers in the military, but it still takes a congressional vote.)

    At least it makes a little bit of sense that this agency delivers mail, but they are still federal employees. Sometimes the other government departments are much more messed up with overlapping authorities that you can't figure out what is really going on.

  • Millions of Americans will gain access to e-mail as a result...

    No - millions of people will gain an email account. Access to it remains the citizens problem.

    "I will gladly pay you today, sir, and eat up

  • 1)I don't know what worries me more - participating means The Man can keep a DB of everyone I come into contact with.... but if I don't participate that means someone may figure out a way to spoof my identity.

    2)On the plus side, if I do take a free email account, any unsolicited spam-scams can be reported to the Postmaster General and would be a felony.
  • They need to reverse the polarity of the neutron flow. The need to offer a service where in all of my mail can go to a PO Box and be scanned in to eForm. Once Scanned in to eForm they could forward it to my eMail or I could check it via the web! Think of all the business that would love to receive there mail in eForm then route it to a desk / person / department. The USPS could make a bundle if they did it right and took it seriously! -WildZero
  • my dad used something like that (but I'm pretty sure it wasn't ATT mail) quite often a few years back when I stayed in a place without email (7 miles from the nearest phone, as well) since he refuses to touch paper when he doesn't absolutely have to... he's been doing electronic banking for years and years now, and refused to give me my ($5!) allowance ~7 years back until I opened a bank account so he could do automatic electronic transfers...

    Lea

  • The biggest lie they are telling us is that this is free. With government, nothing is free. Given what I get from the government for what I pay in taxes, this is probably the most expensive email address I've ever had.

    One nice thing about this address is that I don't have to use it. If some website requires an email address to access some feature, I can give them my postal email address and never check the spam. Suddenly, my regular email account is spam-free. The government provides me with a fed-maintained, carefree spam black hole.

    The print-and-deliver service might be nice, if you have your head up your ass. Do you really want some Goddamned federal employee reading your correspondence to Aunt Mary or anyone else? Even if it's innocuous, I still object to the principle of letting others read me mail. I never send postcards.

    I don't mind paying $0.33 per message to send email through the account, since sending mail is optional (and I'll never use the damn thing). What I do object to is the fact that, after a short while, the USPS will undoubtedly start charging for mandatory monthly "maintenance" whether or not I use the account. When I get my first bill, that's when I grab my rifle and head to my friendly neighborhood branch of the USPS.

    They can't get a monopoly on email service, just like they can't get a monopoly on postal service. For mail, they dictate that a standard letter can't be carried by anyone but the USPS. So companies like UPS, FedEx just make a differently-shaped envelope. It's un-Constitutional to prevent a person from coming to your home, receiving an item, and carrying it to someone else. Extend these principles into the Internet, and you have a postal service that outlaws non-government use of POP3 and SMTP protocols. All we do is develop another set of mail protocols.

    Now I'm not a lawyer, but if you ask me, STMP and POP3 are just "foreign languages", which is to say they take English and encode it in some other syntax and format. How is this different from, say, Russian? This means that these protocols should be protected by the first amendment, preventing the USPS from outlawing transmission of them. Of course, some asshole judge determined that programming languages were "functional devices", like a toaster, and weren't protected by the first amendment. Our forefathers would claw there eyes out if they could see what is happening in their country today.

  • I read somewhere that the USPS, in volume, does what fedex does in a year every day. Does this coincide with your facts? You seem to compare the two as equals here.

    You make a fair point; it'd be a better one if you could cite a source. In any case, you can only make a comparison where competition is legal.

    From the Cato article:

    Between 1951 and 1974, the volume of parcels handled by the Postal Service fell over 50 percent, while the volume handled by UPS soared. Later: UPS now carries 70 percent of all parcels, and the Postal Service is losing more ground each year. A more recent article I found, and can't find just now, places this at 80%.

    Of course, the majority of parcels go by ground delivery, while FedEx is an express air transport company. I don't have statistics handy, but I know they whoop the USPS in that arena... I know some people who work for FedEx, if need be I can get corroborating stats.

    The USPS dominates those very large markets where there can be no competition. But maybe they'd prosper in a free market, too; only one way to find out! :-)

  • I love programs run by the government the signing up for which "would be strictly voluntary.

    I wouldn't stress too much, since the USPS isn't a government organization. They get a big fat subsidy, but are an independent organization, just like any other delivery service.

    It does still irk me that they get to have a .gov address [usps.gov], even if all it does is redirect you to the .com.

  • Sorry, but I think this is a terrible idea. As I said in a previous post, having some government dim-wit read your mail as it's being scanned runs against every good-judgement bone in my body.

    I actually said it was a bad idea to have the print-and deliver service, because then the USPS can read what you send to Aunt Mary (or others). That is actually better than having your received mail being scanned. You can control what you send to Aunt Mary; you can't control what you receive. There might be some significant personal information being disclosed in the mail you receive.

    That's worse than having a Carnivore box invading the privacy of every ISP (and therefore every one of their customers) -- it's like having a personal FBI agent standing at your mailbox!

    You may say that, because your mail would be openly read, you would not have important information sent to the box. But, if it's not important, why do you need instant access to it through your email account?

    This also sets the mood for trouble from Uncle Sam. If your neighbor Bill voluntarily allows his mail to be opened and digitized, what have you got to hide by not taking advantage of this service? Are you a terrorist or other criminal because you don't want your mail digitized?

    Or the most terrifying case of all -- when a significant number of people want their mail digitized (it doesn't even have to be half), the government will decide they have the right to intervene in every person's mail delivery. Not only will all mail be opened, read, and digitized by government employees, but a duplicate copy will be made and archived, and the feds may start dictating the non-delivery of "questionable" messages.

    All this and more because you were too lazy to go down to the post office. Don't tell me "If you don't want your mail scanned, you don't have to...", because this is a concept we shouldn't allow our government to come anywhere near considering.

    Oh, and think of all the crackers that could gain access to your personal information, if you aren't scared of the government. (I'd rather have 500 crackers know my personal information than the federal government, because at least crackers are legally responsible for their actions.)

    One last note: only businesses who don't know how to do business would enjoy this service. Having mail digitized and made available through the Internet would open a billion new doors to industrial espionage. How many businesses do you know of want trade secrets released in public?

  • OH GOD YES! (Score:5)

    by BlueCalx- ( 59283 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @10:54AM (#891031) Homepage
    I LOVE THIS IDEA! There's nothing like the possibility of having an email address like:

    303_north_seminary_avenue_park_ridge_il_60068-3048 @usps.gov

    Finally, all my dreams of owning an email address have come true!
  • or even better a system you can guarentee to have carnivore on it...

    Haven't you heard? The USPS system is derived from Carnivore. Seems the FBI wanted to bypass those pesky ISPs and their annoying resistance to attaching unknown boxes to their networks.

    (NB: Since in these times nothing seems too absurd: yes, I'm kidding...)

  • Re:We need postal DNS (Score:3)

    by Hrunting ( 2191 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @01:55PM (#891035) Homepage
    Sadly, the post office is doing what other people do just fine already, and not coming up with a way to stay relevent. Dare I wonder if we will soon even need a USPS?

    I hate how every time someone decides to talk about that wonderous new invention e-mail, the end of the discussion always has to be a statement like this.

    Yes, we will need a postal service of some sort for a long time, whether it's a corporation called the United States Postal Service or one called FedEx. You know why? Cause you can't ship stuff like auto parts, computers, eBay purchases, and Grandma's presents via e-mail. People tend to forget that cyberspace isn't real. It's just a virtual (read: imaginary) place that functions very well for information but sucks for actual atoms and molecules.

    And as far as government organizations go, the post office isn't exactly like other governmental organizations. They don't depend on the Congressional budget and they operate as a corporation, not as an agency. They are actually an example of an excellently run part of the government and make a strong argument for modeling the different agencies after corporations. The post office is completely self-supporting and you can believe they're not going to attempt to do something if they're not going to make money on it.

    While I don't think the e-mail address thing is a good idea, I don't think it is a bad one, either. And I think the Post Office will do a /much/ better job or regulating and controlling abuses to its system than organizations like Hotmail and Yahoo do.
  • When all the mail servers crash at once, this will give a whole new meaning to the phrase "disgruntled postal workers".
  • jnik:
    Exactly. They're planning on charging the recipient .41 per message, if you want your email on paper.

    Nope, charge the sender. That's what will keep the chickenboners out and the volume low enough to prevent revoltuion.

  • One bit of good to come of this (Score:4)

    by / ( 33804 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @10:54AM (#891042)
    Maybe having the PostOffice offering email services will hasten the modernization of privacy doctrine and Fourth Amendment jurisprudence to cover email as well as it does paper documents, which is to say, not very well at the moment -- supoenas for 'mere evidence' that would've been categorically rejected centuries ago, fishing expeditions into people's computer hard drives, carte blanche for employers to read and divulge private correspondence, etc. Having the PostOffice involved should add something interesting to the constitutional pot.

  • Re:And the performance to boot... (Score:3)

    by chuck ( 477 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @11:53AM (#891044) Homepage
    Why the hell can't they concentrate on the one and only one reason they should even exist:
    Delivering a first-class letter within 1-2 days.
    Leave the package delivery, the stamp collection promotion, the money order sales, the bicycle racing team sponsorship, and now friggin' eMail, to the entities that are damn well suited to handle these things
    Don't miss the point! The USPS is trying to dodge obsolecence. If you need to send a few-page document to someone, what's the most efficient way to do so? Email! So what's going to happen to a business whose primary income comes from sending few-page documents? Now, postal delivery is still important in cases where physical transfer is required: legal documents, which could arguably be done over email, and packages, which is where I think the postal service should capitalize.

    This email thing is just a desperate attempt to rescue the first-class business, an effort which I think is doomed. I mean, everyone in the US could get a hotmail account (I know, I know... but...) and not have to pay $0.41 per message. This is where the whole plan breaks down.

    But, the USPS has a respectable package delivery service, which seems to have some pretty badass bang-for-buck, and I think they could do quite well in this arena.

  • One of the common lines was "We charge for a letter across town and across the country. A great deal!" But did anyone think about that? Isn't the schmuck sending a letter across town getting screwed then?

    Some people pay more than the cost of delivery and some pay less. The primary goal of the post office is not economic efficiency, it is the welfare of the United States. That means a reliable, affordable and universal system of communication, whether you live in downtown Boston or on a ranch in Montana.

  • Why would anyone want to use a USPS email address when there are already tons of other free email services out there (Hotmail, mail.com, etc.)?

    The only reason I let the USPS pick up my mail is because they're the only ones who are legally allowed to take/put things from/in my mailbox!

  • We need postal DNS (Score:5)

    by Wellspring ( 111524 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @11:53AM (#891049)

    OK, since this article is more than an hour old, I guess being moderated up is out of the question. So for those of you browsing low:

    First, this idea is silly and relatively useless. The private sector operates something similar and better. All the post office can add is a mechanism which other regulations will glom onto until it becomes your mandatory official email address-- a little like what has happened with Social Security numbers.

    Second, the post office has NO interest in stopping spam. For one thing, their paper-mail revenue stream isn't supported by those silly first-class stamps you've been buying. It is supported by third class 'business mail' aka junk mail. Good side: you get cheap postal mail. Bad side: you get a ream of banner ads in your mailbox every week.

    Third, the government's problem all along has been a weakness of adapting to innovation. They come up with this great paper plan, and five months into it, as circumstances change, the plan ends up solidifying. Within a year or two, the whole system is out of date. I've worked with government agencies and contractors in the past; this is how it has always gone.

    Finally, and most importantly, if the post office really wants to do something good, they should create a name server system for postal addresses. IE abstract the physical address away from the resident. So I just write "CmdrTaco, 80486DX" on the envelope, plop down a stamp, and it goes to Commander Taco, whereever his physical address might be . Do that, and right there you would only need one change of address card, and everyone who uses your EasyCode would automatically be updated. People who need a physical address can always still use that. You could update it over the web or at a post office if people are really worried about security.

    Sadly, the post office is doing what other people do just fine already, and not coming up with a way to stay relevent. Dare I wonder if we will soon even need a USPS?

  • > ... the Direct Marketing Association, or as I like to call them "the first horseman of the apocalypse."

    War? I dunno, Pestilence seems more appropriate to me :) Tho the biblical passage seems more to have five: Antichrist, War, Famine, then Death/Pestilence and Hell making a joint appearance, so I suppose you're not too far off after all. And the USPS IS GIVING IT ITS CROWN, AND IT WILL GO OUT AND CONQUER, SPAM IS THE HARBINGER OF END TIMES REPENT REPENT REPENT ok theyre saying i have to take my meds now bye

  • You may have this backward. Before the industrial revolution, the norm was individual farmers and small towns. People gave this up in exchange for the money-making opportunities of the big city manufacturing centers. Now that we are moving into the information age, we should be able to disperse back to the healthier environs of the countryside.

  • Ultamite terrorist tool (Score:4)

    by 11223 ( 201561 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @10:55AM (#891059)
    There's a big problem with this - your email is now linked to who you are in meatspace! If I give out a usps email address, I give out my physical address - which is my name, my phone number, and my social security number, for those with access to databases. Add to that l33t kiddies - what happens if one of them decides to harras you? Expect mail bombs. Expect phone calls at 1am. Expect stolen identity.

    This ought to be illegal, on the grounds that it's the greatest breach of privacy ever concieved.



  • well they shoudn't need all the info, just
    john.dohe@06454.usps.gov
    or better yet your social security number
    <laughing histerically>
    1234-56-7891@usgov.gov
  • I believe that the squatting law is for 7 years. If you manage to live there for 7 years with no objections, then you now own that building. Of course I could be wrong.
  • That dead tree spam comes to you courtesy of using credit cards, from which your buying habits and and address can be sold. Try not using your credit card. Ever.

    Yeah, right. Your bank has to have an address from you in order for you to open an account. Most cash-checking places need an ID and proof of address. Your credit rating is affected by how many times you've moved in the last few years. So your credit card is only one catalyst in the chain reaction of junk mail that gets sent. And don't even think about filling out the form to be part of those Supermarket Discount clubs (ooh, save $1.09!).

    I don't watch Seinfield, but I imagine that it's pretty darn impossible to have no address. One way might be getting Post Office Box, then moving. The post office box is where you base your voting record (cannot vote without an address, that's why the homeless don't vote), bank accounts, and other crucial things. But wait! Don't you need to get a phone line (or DSL) to this anonymous new home of yours in order to pay your online bills? And the water, electricity -- who's name is that in? Those girl scouts may be even cleverer than you think - taking down orders and selling your info to Market Research Inc. You want a Pizza delivered to your house? Might as well have asked for ten "special deal" coupon sheets to be mailed to you every month.

    There is one way to do it -- squat! Find a nice, abandoned building (Philly has more abandoned buildings than homeless people, I hear) and fix it up. A lot of times city water services will still work and they can't figure it out. Hell, most old apartments in the City get free cable. Heating may be a problem, so perhaps this better done in New Orleans. But not only will you have no junk mail, you'll have no bills to pay, either. No mortage, no landlord...

    I believe that there are laws (particular to each city) that declares you the owner of the building if you've lived in it for a certain amount of time. Well, put some effort in it - fix it up: insulation, new windows, solar panels, furnace - and you've just made a good return on your investment (check local laws!).

    You can afford that stuff -- you're a /.'er, right? Don't you have a cushy tech job? Why not take your spare time/money and that abandoned factory and make it into a super clubhouse for your secret ninja (geek) gang! With all the money you're saving on rent/mortage, you could afford a satellite-modem hookup (have the stuff mailed to your office). And don't forget to have your papers in order when you've been there long enough!

    Oh, and support squatters' rights!

  • One of the advantages I see to this is that it will help legitimize the internet for bill-paying, and thus reduce the amount of dead tree bills I receive. Once the system is up and running, the USPS can offer incentives to companies to send bills electronically to customers who have registered that they want to receive them that way (via their centralized database).

    Even if it just starts out as huge PDF attachments for credit card bills, it will go a long way towards reducing the amount to junk I get in my mailbox every day.

  • What USPS WOULD be GOOD for. (Score:3)

    by YoungHack ( 36385 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @12:28PM (#891073)
    Actually, what I would like to see the USPS do
    is validate GPG keys. I would love to take my
    GPG key to the nearest post office with
    appropriate ID and have it "signed" by the
    Post office.

    This could work especially well with the recent
    digital signature legislation that was passed.

  • What they should really do... (Score:3)

    by exister ( 117794 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @02:19PM (#891075) Homepage
    ...is make a private system where you have to pay to send email.

    Wait, keep reading for just a minute, please...

    You're still here? Good. Everybody's been pointing out that when snail mail spammers can send mail at no cost to everyone, out mailboxes will be filled to the brim each day.

    My point is, why should they do it for free?

    If there is a nationally available system where it costs (for instance) one dollar to send an email to another person, who could then quickly and easily refund the money if he choose to, spamming would be so prohibitively expensive that noone would do it.

    Well, that's my two cents, anyway.

  • The United States Postal Service, while originally spawned by the government, is not part of the government at this point in any way. It's an independant agency. So to say that it's a government agency that's carrying your correspondence is incorrect. They only have a little bit more to do with the government than UPS or FedEx.

    The United States Post Office Department was once a cabinet-level agency, but that was changed in 1969, when it was converted to what is called an "independent establishment of the executive branch of the Government of the United States". The Postmaster General is appointed by a board of governors that the President appoints. Postal employees are counted as Federal employees.

    Perhaps you're thinking of an independent quasi-governmental corporation like Amtrak. This solution was proposed but rejected by Congress during postal reform. The USPS is self-supporting and often acts like a company, but in reality it retains a Congressional mandate to offer flat-rate postal service to all parts of the US, whether or not it's profitable.

    I know what you're saying, but you went too far in suggesting it's "not part of the government in any way". True, it has much more discretion and independence than most federal agencies, it's insulated from politics by having a governing board, and it is structured much more like a corporation than an agency. But it most certainly remains part of the government.

    Whether the US will follow the lead of some other countries and spinoff the postal service as a public corporation remains to be seen. (Even Germany, when it spun off Deutsche Telekom, retained the bundespost as a government agency -- although to this day they own 51% of DT stock.) In the end the internet may eventually make snail mail obsolete, but not just yet. At this point postal mail is recognized as an essential service of government in almost every nation.

    The Cato institute sponsored a talk on Postal Service privatization [cato.org] if you're interested.
    ----
  • (and this is ** WAY ** off topic)

    that even the usps wasn't satisfied with something LESS than a .COM address?

    www.usps.gov has moved..
    ..to new.ups.com!

    What a sickening thing.

    --Talonius
  • It starts with an electronic equivalent of your physical address. It morphs into a "location-independent address" similar to the location-independent telephone numbers that the phone companies are working towards. Once you are stuck with a single address, no matter where you live, you now have in place a universal identifier.

    How many places require you to provide a mailing address in order to receive services? To purchase goods? "It's so you are elegibe for the warranty."

    The legal processes are already in place. The US Fifth Amendment does not cover your name and your address -- you can be forced to give both. What databases wouldn't have your address?

    You can bet that the United States Postal Service will learn from the mistakes made by the Social Security Administration -- the number space will be large enough so that there would be no reuse of addresses for at least 300 years. At birth, each surviving baby would receive its own unique address -- after all, marriages break up, parents die, and the child might end up in an orphanage, so if mail is to reach each and every person, then each person needs a unique address don't they?

    We may look back at today as "the good ol' days"...

  • This wouldn't be all bad. (Score:4)

    by Amphigory ( 2375 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @10:57AM (#891086) Homepage
    The one thing I'm interested in is that, apparently, they are planning to let you to send an email to an address, which they will then print and hand-deliver to the addressee. For me, this would be really nice -- my wifes grandparents and I enjoy a regular correspondence -- a correspondence that would be much more regular if I could email instead of snail-mail. The chances of them ever getting a computer are virtually nil, so this is the best that could probably be hoped for.

    This could also be good for business. It could essentially be used as a reliable stamping & stuffing operation with costs of only 8 cents per document. Ultimately, it could save a lot of gas and air-miles as things are sent electronically to the post office, then printer rather than send physically the whole way.

    Here's to hoping they don't come out with a fourth class version of this. The spam would then become extreme.

    --

  • You know how the USPS gets reeeeal upset when you start carrying first class mail in competition with them? Are we going to see them try to put some sort of restrictions on email as well? Dear Sir, It has come to our attention here at the USPS that you've been sending 'first class' email via email servers other than those officially authorized to do so by the USPS. We hereby demand that you cease and desist such communications through unauthorized channels, and turn over your email server logs so that the USPS may bill you the 41 cents per email 'illegal conveyance' penalty. Failure to comply will result in an IRS audit. We appreciate your cooperation in this matter.
  • REgarding the whole issue of these free e_mail addresses being easy targets for spammers, as far as I remember, the last time I opened my (real) mailbox, about 80% of it was catalogs, coupons, offers, come-ons. How are we to expect any new service from USPS to be any different?
  • My father works for the USPS, and there's a few things I've learned about how mail advertisements work and how this e-mail system will work.

    The USPS will not be revealing ANY information in your usps.gov e-mail address. You will have the opportunity to choose what ID you want to use for your e-mail, although the ask that you use your name in some way rather than something like pornstar@usps.gov.

    Mail bombs? Early morning phone calls? How do you get that? If some Joe Smoe has some vandetta against you and he knows your e-mail address does NOT mean he's going to know your physical address. Look at his options:

    1) You set up your usps.gov mail to forward mail to some hotmail account. So you get e-mails. Darn. Delete them. That could happen with any e-mail account anyway.

    2) You receive in paper form all your usps.gov e-mail. It's going to cost him 41 cents per message. Why would he pay 41 cents to send you threatening? Even if he did, it's got a return address. Fake? Not likely, because he had to pay 41 cents to send that mail. Trust me, you'll have a way to trace him.

    3) Even if the letter is threatening, it's a federal offense to send threatening mail, and whoever sent the mail will have an identity. And the USPS has quite a large, nation-wide fraud center that is being equipped to deal with those kinds of issues.

    And, no matter how he sends it, whether from his computer or physically going to the post office to mail the message, he can't get anything more than your name from the post office. They aren't allowed by federal law to reveal any private information such as your phone #, SS#, etc.

    And if you're worried about spam, don't be. It costs about 21 cents per letter for advertisers to send you a two page message via snail mail (2 cents for the paper and envelope, 6 cents labor to print the form letter, stuff it, and print the envelope, and 13 cents for bulk-rate mailing), which is still quite cheaper than 41 cents to mail a two page message via USPS e-mail. And for credit card companies who have to mail all those pamphlets and forms in the message? It would take about 9 pages of e-mail ASCII text to reveal all the information they're required to disclose for a credit card application, which will cost them around, I believe, 60 cents, to send via USPS e-mail, much more than to send snail-mail.

    Oh, and for the highly paranoid, no one, neither businesses nor an everyday Joe Smoe, will just be able to walk into the USPS and say "Hey, I got this e-mail address of someone, could you please give me his name/snail address/phone number please?"

  • hey, lets give everyone email...then set up a carnivore box...and see what happens...

  • spam IS cheaper than tree's (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I for one will be glad when the bleached white USELESS (tree-killing) bulk mails are replaced emails. I USE a proxy-blocker, so if I do not know you, you get a polite email directing you to my ICQ to make initial contact and your email is bounced back :) I block everything from unknown entities. I also bounce any email which does not have MY ADDRESS' in the adressee field. I can be inconvienent to some people but it works for me.

  • the Post Office is seriously deluded (Score:3)

    by Hernos ( 210780 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @10:58AM (#891100)
    From the article:"People say the Internet could be a lot more usable if there was a greater trust involved," he says. "At the Postal Service, people trust us."

    That's truly funny. You can't even trust the post office to deliver a letter within a month. Here in Chicago, it's almost a regular occurrence that firemen put out a fire at a postal carrier's house to discover stacks of burnt mail.

    "The USPS: When it absolutely, positively, has to have a 40% chance of being there by the end of next week."

  • [T]he USPS's role in binding the nation togeather is becoming less and less important.

    The provision for the Postal Service in the US Constituion was a mistake.

    I don't know specifically about the US, but here in Europe the debate usually centers on the Universal Provision argument. The universal provision is the requirement that the post office must reach the whole country with fairly uniform service and price. That's why they have a monopoly on the delivery of low-cost mail.

    In this sense, you could argue (and people do) that the postal service does "bring the nation together" in a way that a commercial operation would not.

    ---

    "Where do you come from?"

  • Okay, the e-mail thing is just plain stupid, all it does is forward, so what's the point? The really COOL part, however, is what they decided NOT to do: Allow you to link an e-mail address to a street address! Instead of telling someone where you live, they can send you letters, packages, whatever, addressed to your_name@usps.gov, and then they will deliver the actual meatspace package to your real address. Awesome! No more worrying about who you give your info too online, and who's hands it might fall into. Just give them your @usps.gov username, and you're set.

    Why NOT do this? I mean, I don't see why it has to be tied to an e-mail address, but just being able to have "alias" addresses through identifier names in their database.

  • Re:One bit of good to come of this (Score:3)

    by Chairboy ( 88841 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @12:33PM (#891109) Homepage
    I have to admit a certain level of concern whenever people start talking about 'Modernizing the Constitution'.

    An example of an oft proposed 'update' is to remove the right of citizens to bear arms. No matter how attractive the idea of changing one of the first 10 amendments is, consider the dangers posed as well.

  • So does this mean.... (Score:4)

    by Tebriel ( 192168 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @10:59AM (#891117)
    that my email will now me bent, broken, bruised and battered as well as 3 days late?

    Quick! Sign me up!

  • Wait, Wait, Wait this makes perfect sense! (Score:3)

    by Riplakish ( 213391 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @03:01PM (#891121)
    The USPS is projected to lose a lot of money to commercial e-mail and third-party delivery companies. So the USPS, in its infinite wisdom and who makes so much money from all of the junk mail that they deliver that they should have to PAY US for the privilege of delivering a first class letter, wants us to sign up for a free e-mail account to better organize us for the spammers so that they won't need to send bulk junk mail anymore, hence eliminating said profitable revenue source.

    Oh, wait a minute, it made sense for a minute. I used to work in the government, and something took over the logic portion of my brain. I'm all better now. Sorry.

  • When I graduated I received several graduation cards in opened envelopes. The enclosures had been, as one might put it, looted. Not much one can do, eh? And I never did get a receipt from the Disabled Veterans What-have-you for the $20 cash I sent them--I wonder if they ever saw it.

    For all that, the USPS is actually an excellent carrier. For one of the lowest rates in the world, we can send a physical document anywhere in the country and be pretty certain that it will arrive. They charge the same rate no matter where it goes and how difficult it is to get there. They are not, AFAIK, funded by taxes anymore. They do a pretty good job.

    One of my few complaints is that they own all postboxes. No matter how much one paid for it--even if one made it oneself--it is the property of the Postal Service.

    Interesting fact: legally, it is the postmaster of a town who determines the name. Or that is, at least, the rumour which is popular. I always sort of liked the idea myself.

  • They could always adopt the highly successful Compuserve naming convention . . .

  • The FBI can't declare jurisdiction over USPS matters. The USPS is NOT a government agency (it's a wholly-owned subsidiary, but still a distinct, non-governmental entity), and therefore, the FBI needs to obtain even more paperwork than usual to be able to view anything that's carried by the USPS. Besides, if the FBI starts policing postal problems, then what would become of all of those Postal Police folks?

    I have to admit, the USPS is one of the better public postal services in the world. Sure, things get screwed up here and there, but given the amount of correspondence that they handle, the percentage is EXTREMELY low (losing mail usually happens to me, so don't think I'm saying I'm a sparklingly happy customer).

    The way I see it, this is just Step One in moving from the traditional "tree-killing" method of messaging to a more modern method. I personally prefer email (read: FASTER) over postal mail any day of the week.

    My question is, when are they going to start assigning IPs to our houses?

  • Keep in mind that the there are laws that prohibit you from sending too much mail through carriers other than the USPS. I recall hearing that some company was fined for sending too much first-class-type mail through FedEx or something like that.
  • If they are going to assign an e-mail box to my address. What if I move. Now what? Will my physicall address be different but the PO office still drop my e-mail into 328EmlDrive@somecity.com?

    This looks like a bad idea overall. What will they gain? There are already hundreads of FREE email accounts all over the net. Why do we need another one.. especially one that is subsidized with my tax dollars?

    And if they sell the adresses to spamers it won't be usefull at all. Right now I have a 25/75 ratio of snail mail between bills(20%) and letters(5%) and junk(75%). And since e-mail is so much more convinient and cheaper to spam to I can see that hitting 1/100 in the e-mail version. (where 1 in a 100 messages are even worth reading) UGH!

    -Ex-Nt-User

  • Sure .... untill you move (Score:4)

    by taniwha ( 70410 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @11:01AM (#891132) Homepage Journal
    so how will forwarding address work?

    maybe it wil be more like:

    householder@303.north-seminary-avenue.park-ridge.i l-60068-3048.usps.gov

    with 'householder' replaced with your name for personal stuff ....

  • You're correct, but the USPS has jurisdiction only because pyramid schemes which use the USPS constitute mail fraud. It has nothing to do with email vs. paper mail. If the money doesn't go through the USPS, they can't nail you for mail fraud - you're not using "the mail."
  • So is the Postal Service prepared to store all of that spam for the millions of email addresses that will be ignored by their owners but constantly spammed? This sounds like a waste of an idea. There are already free email services such as Hotmail. This would have been news had it happened in the pre-Hotmail era. Now it's a waste of taxpayer money.
  • <i>I love programs run by the government the signing up for which "would be strictly voluntary."</i>

    Although PAYING for them with the tax money they steal from you constantly will, unfortunately, not be optional.

    Unfortunately, this one is a bit hard to bitch about, as we can pretty much blame the founding fathers. They just had to write the Constitution in a way that Congress could interpret their authority to enact a postal service was an <i>exclusive</i> authority, giving them not only the power to deliver the mail, but to shoot anyone else who tries to. Worse yet, the term "post office" is not defined, so interpreting it to allow them to provide e-mail is hardly a stretch.

    Since government always seeks to expand its power, I wouldn't write off the posibility, however small, of Congress eventually granting exclusive authority to provide e-mail to the USPS. It would be easy to sell to America's socialist-at-heart voters. They would only need to point out Melissa and ILOVEYOU and some yet-to-come devastating e-mail stupidity to convince Americans that they just can't trust e-mail to big-business greed or whatever, same as they all thought for phone service, cable TV, and power for decades.

    MoNsTeR
  • You perceive the physical act of folding, addressing, sealing, blah blah blah as a pain in the ass that takes too damn long. Understandable.
    By jove, I think he's got it!

    --

  • ...or maybe just hella-counter-intuitive. I'm sure that being linux people, we've figured out a way to make adding a few HTML tags to plain text nearly impossible for anyone who didn't code the interface ;) (*cough* --this is a JOKE)

    MoNsTeR

  • And the performance to boot... (Score:4)

    by Mark A. Rhowe ( 216675 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @11:04AM (#891158) Homepage
    Why the hell can't they concentrate on the one and only one reason they should even exist:
    Delivering a first-class letter within 1-2 days.
    Leave the package delivery, the stamp collection promotion, the money order sales, the bicycle racing team sponsorship, and now friggin' eMail, to the entities that are damn well suited to handle these things

    Then, and only then, will we see efficiency in this government organization.

  • Re:One bit of good to come of this (Score:3)

    by iElucidate ( 67873 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @11:04AM (#891161) Homepage
    Very good point there, in that subpoenas can only be delivered by mail if it is through the USPS, and then even if they lose it it is still considered delivered, as the USPS is a trusted courier in the eyes of the law. Now just wait for them to start mass-subpoena-ing people through e-mails and then you getting in trouble for not checking your usps.gov e-mail. After all, it's still a "trusted source!"

  • Re:USPS: Not the government, exactly (Score:3)

    by RobHornick ( 170481 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @11:05AM (#891179)
    Actually, they are a part of the Executive Branch of the U.S. government. This means they fall under the president's direct control along with the FBI, Secret Service, and other government agencies.

  • Re:government programs (Score:4)

    by seanson22 ( 202693 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @11:09AM (#891200)
    Actually, it really is a gov't organization. Destroying a mail box is a federal crime, because it is considered federal property. Blowing up a mail box is categorized as an act of terrorism (use of explosives in destruction of federal property). You cannot refuse the service of the USPS. Since their property is considered property of the federal government, I'd call them a government org.

  • Postal Inspectors and Chain Mail (Score:5)

    by Booker ( 6173 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @11:19AM (#891206) Homepage
    Hey... the Postal Inspectors [usps.com] are the guys who bust you for sending around chain letters (get-rich-quick stuff & pyramid schemes) - perhaps their jurisdiction will expand to email, as well, when they see their servers clog up with that crap...

    "Excuse me, sir? Did you send this spam? Please come with us..."

    That would make me happy. :-)

    ---

  • So now the jargon will be "He's gone Postal Sysadmin".

  • At least with snail mail... (Score:3)

    by Sir_Winston ( 107378 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @11:16AM (#891226)
    At least with snail mail I can go to my P.O. Box and weed through all the junk mail pretty easily. But I doubt the USPS is prepared for the onslaught of commercial spam such a scheme would engender. They may be used to delivering tons of the tangible stuff every day, but with spam it's always pointed out that it costs nothing to send spam ads so people send more spam e-mail than they could ever send spam snail-mail.

    And this brings up a very important point; as a government agency, the USPS wouldn't be able to filter spam. Spammers could complain that it's governmental prior restraint to filter their unsolicited ads. Without the ability to filter spam at all, I suspect that such a system would rapidly buckle under heavy load. Even worse, this is the USPS--they'd probably use a naming system for everyone's addresses, a naming system which is easily guessed by spammers. I imagine that this idea will either go nowhere, or if they do implement it that they fold under the strain or, if they do filter, become a legal target for the Direct Marketing Association, or as I like to call them "the first horseman of the apocalypse." I hate those guys....

  • Re:Ultamite terrorist tool (Score:3)

    by generic-man ( 33649 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @11:16AM (#891229) Homepage Journal
    I want you to tell me where the article stated that your e-mail address would contain your physical address. They said that the processing would be handled in a central database, where e-mail to your USPS e-mail address would be routed to your physical address internally. Unless someone hacked the database, your security would not be compromised.

  • Try not using the system now... (Score:3)

    by Greyfox ( 87712 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @11:25AM (#891237) Homepage Journal
    The only thing I ever get in my mail box are bills and dead tree spam. There are numerous methods to pay the bills online now and I'm not interested in dead tree spam, so how do I opt out of the current system? I expect it would be every bit as hard as the Seinfeld episode made it out to be.

  • Re:And the performance to boot... (Score:4)

    by kspencer ( 113922 ) on Monday July 31, 2000 @11:25AM (#891243)

    Simple, really. A few years ago I lived in Limon, Colorado. Population about 2,000, and an hour and a half to anything resembling civilization. UPS, FedEx, and the like would deliver there, but pickups cost extra. The nearest office was in Denver - that hour and a half I just mentioned. The USPS is required to maintain a presence, regular pickup, and regular delivery service to towns like Limon, which meant I paid no more for that service than somebody in Seattle.

    Now, that's probably one of the sources of inefficiency, that need to have deliver and pickup service even where it's an income loser. But given the choice between the government and, say Microsoft or IBM, well, at least I have a chance of getting through the government's layers of paperwork and obfuscation.

  • Re:god... (Score:3)

    by PD ( 9577 ) <slashdotlinux@pdrap.org> on Monday July 31, 2000 @11:27AM (#891250) Homepage Journal
    And when one of their server dies you can be sure it was a stray bullet passing through the power supply.

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