"In March, U.S. troops in Iraq shot to death Italian intelligence agent Nicola Calipari, who was travelling in a car that refused to slow down for a coalition checkpoint."
In March, U.S. troops in Iraq shot to death Italian intelligence agent Nicola Calipari, who was travelling in a car that - according to US troops - refused to slow down for a coalition checkpoint.
Are you fucking kidding me? Insightful my ass. And what happened according to non-US sources?
RTFA. These Italian guys were obviously inexperienced for that kind of undertaking (ignorant of "rules of the game"). You don't zoom thru an armed checkpoint in Iraq.
Well, according to Sgrena, the car was fired upon by a tank. Or possibly several hundred rounds of machine-gun fire. She's made both claims.
Calipari was, apparently, experienced in this sort of thing, making it strange that this happened. It's clear that the U.S. forces weren't properly informed of the Italian actions, but even so, he should have known how to deal with a roadblock.
Sgrena doesn't help matters by changing her story every ten minutes.
I don't know. But she is lying, about at least some of the details.
The car was not fired upon by a tank. The car was not hit by several hundred rounds of machine-gun fire. In either case she would not be around to make statements of any kind.
What would the killers gain by lying, knowing that a huge amount of people will believe them simply because it's the "US"?
Cough. Isn't that, like, backwards?
I don't know the whole truth of the matter, obviously. But w
"I call BS. Go sit in a car and ask somebody to fire at you with the type of machine gun they used. You will think an whole army of tanks is shooting you to pieces (and wet your pants while you're at it)."
The problem isn't the orginal statement. It's one thing to think you were shot at by a tank and hundreds of rounds, learn differently, and correct your statements. When you learn the facts and ignore them, that's when your character and motives are rightly called into question.
Just an addendum to that: In another post I described Sgrena as "unreliable", which is more charitable. Lying implies intent to deceive; it is quite possible that she was just confused about the situation, which is understandable.
Having said that, she is clearly unreliable as a witness.
Isn't it possible that she isn't knowing lying, but confused? If I'm being hustled away from kidnappers, caught in a fire fight in the dark, and see my rescuer killed in front of me, I'm going to have a hard time counting bullets... number of shots fired at me = lots = a high number. And any loud noise could be misinterpeted as a "tank" if you are panicked.
Nope. If you've ever been to Iraq or around military vehicles, you'd know the difference. Particularly between a "machine gun" and a 120mm smoothbore cannon on a tank.
- The lady was caught in a firefight unexpectedly, and the person shielding her from bullets was killed.
- She makes statements in another language, leaving plenty of room for the american press to 'interpret'.
- For a person confused, in the dark, hearing shots coming thier direction, there's not a lot of difference between a bradley and a 'tank'.
- An average american on the street in broad daylight will call a bradley a 'tank' when they see it go by.
It is NOT clear that US forces weren't informed. While it is possible the local troops weren't, the Italians have made it clear that the Italian commander was in contact with the US command and that the car was on a secure road with US military permission. They had already passed several checkpoints - does the US mean to say that checkpoints do not relay down the line that a vehicle is coming on a SECURE ROAD? I doubt that very much. Even in Vietnam, on guard duty, when the Duty Officer comes around, yo
"Nature is very un-American. Nature never hurries."
-- William George Jordan
Correction (Score:0, Flamebait)
Further correction (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Further correction (Score:0, Insightful)
And what happened according to non-US sources?
RTFA. These Italian guys were obviously inexperienced for that kind of undertaking (ignorant of "rules of the game").
You don't zoom thru an armed checkpoint in Iraq.
Re:Further correction (Score:4, Interesting)
Calipari was, apparently, experienced in this sort of thing, making it strange that this happened. It's clear that the U.S. forces weren't properly informed of the Italian actions, but even so, he should have known how to deal with a roadblock.
Sgrena doesn't help matters by changing her story every ten minutes.
Re:Further correction (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't know. But she is lying, about at least some of the details.
The car was not fired upon by a tank. The car was not hit by several hundred rounds of machine-gun fire. In either case she would not be around to make statements of any kind.
What would the killers gain by lying, knowing that a huge amount of people will believe them simply because it's the "US"?
Cough. Isn't that, like, backwards?
I don't know the whole truth of the matter, obviously. But w
Re:Further correction (Score:2)
The problem isn't the orginal statement. It's one thing to think you were shot at by a tank and hundreds of rounds, learn differently, and correct your statements. When you learn the facts and ignore them, that's when your character and motives are rightly called into question.
Re:Further correction (Score:2)
Having said that, she is clearly unreliable as a witness.
Re:Further correction (Score:1)
Re:Further correction (Score:2)
Well, okay. She could be lying, or she could be crazy.
Re:Further correction (Score:1)
Re:Further correction (Score:2)
Re:Further correction (Score:2)
- The lady was caught in a firefight unexpectedly, and the person shielding her from bullets was killed.
- She makes statements in another language, leaving plenty of room for the american press to 'interpret'.
- For a person confused, in the dark, hearing shots coming thier direction, there's not a lot of difference between a bradley and a 'tank'.
- An average american on the street in broad daylight will call a bradley a 'tank' when they see it go by.
Some confusion is
Re:Further correction (Score:2)
It is NOT clear that US forces weren't informed. While it is possible the local troops weren't, the Italians have made it clear that the Italian commander was in contact with the US command and that the car was on a secure road with US military permission. They had already passed several checkpoints - does the US mean to say that checkpoints do not relay down the line that a vehicle is coming on a SECURE ROAD? I doubt that very much. Even in Vietnam, on guard duty, when the Duty Officer comes around, yo