Boeing Connexion, No More Wi-Fi at 30,000 ft? 192
symonty writes "After 6 years and one billion dollars, Boeing is evaluating whether or not their wifi for planes connectivity business can be a viable business. " I've never had the actual pleasure of evaluating it or not; some folks, however, have said it's a great service.
Money versus power (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Money versus power (Score:3, Informative)
Even with an outlet, there's no way I'm going to pay 26.95 for a piss-poor connection with a ton of restrictions.
(The above assumes that the service is locked down against anything put port 80.)
Re:Money versus power (Score:3, Funny)
Wait (Score:2)
Re:Money versus power (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Money versus power (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Money versus power (Score:2)
There is a standard power jack for aircraft use, and at one point United made a point of advertising that all (but two) of its 757 fleet had power outlets at each seat in first or business class.
I've also seen them in A320's, I think, and I recall that Delta had them in some of their aircraft.
All I know is every time I fly and I DO carry my inflight adapter as carryon, they don't have power, and every time I fly and I DO NOT carry it, they do.
Re:Money versus power (Score:2)
Re:Money versus power (Score:2)
On long distance business class [flatseats.com], there surely are outlets.
Re:Money versus power (Score:2)
Re:Money versus power (Score:5, Informative)
> battery can't carry a charge long enough to use it all the way?
Modern long/mediaum haul aircraft have personal power outlets on each seat into which you can plug special power adapters/inverters [expansys.com]. I only had a problem once, and that was easily solved by asking the stewardess to turn the power on....
The biggest issue with these kind of internet connections is the price, which would certainly stop me from using it unless the company is willing to foot the bill (Anyway, I'd rather be watching a movie or sleeping than working).
Steve.
Re:Money versus power (Score:5, Informative)
The aircraft power supply is usually restricted to 75 watts which is a problem for MacBook Pro and many powerful 17" PC laptops which need more than that.
Re:Money versus power (Score:2)
Re:Money versus power (Score:2)
The stewards boggled, I boggled, and there was no mention of this limitation in any inflight information or in the material they had available.
But I got lucky in that the fourth attempt didn't blow any fuses.
As for the technical level of the service, I was satisfied.
Re:Money versus power (Score:2)
I quit carrying laptops at that point, mostly because even if you do wedge it under the tray lip, it's still r
Re:Money versus power - verses time (Score:3, Interesting)
> The biggest issue with these kind of internet connections is the price, which would certainly stop me from using it unless the company is willing to foot the bill (Anyway, I'd rather be watching a movie or sleeping than working).
Work? No. Company pays the bill? Yes! ;-)
I have a friend who does a lot of international travel. He uses and loves in flight WiFi. It costs him about $30 a flight. He uses it to check email (hence the company pays) and then plays WoW on it. And his latency is low (100-150)
Re:Money versus power - verses time (Score:2)
What services is your friend using where he gets 100-150ms latencies? I work for a group that is looking to use mobile (city to city) broadband where something like Connexion would be ideal mobilitywise, but latency concerned us. We did our own estimate on what the latencies would be on anything satelite based and the results were much higher than 100-150.
Re:Money versus power - verses time (Score:2, Informative)
Yeah, I was shock too when he came on line from 30k feet with such low latency - I expected major lag. I really don't know what system was used, although I think it must have been Connexion as it was Lufthansa flight IIRC.
If you are looking into low latency mobilty satillite is typically not a good choice. I don't know if terrestrial networks are possible for you but I would seriously look into WiMax instead. I have had some involvement with it for the last couiple of years and it holds some amazing potent
Re:Money versus power - verses time (Score:2)
With the removal of Selective Availability and 12 channel GPS's w/ WAAS and DGPS, you then have a resonably accurate fix which for someone with the means
Re:Money versus power - verses time (Score:2)
Re:Money versus power - verses time (Score:2)
Unfortunately, it does not work that way. Placing a load on a generator or alternator makes it more difficult to turn and there are real forces involved. In the case of a plane, the power taken by 100 passangers using 75 watts each for a
Re:Money versus power (Score:2)
Re:Money versus power (Score:2)
Re:Money versus power (Score:2)
Re:Money versus power (Score:2)
Boeing could probably increase revenue by just renting out Nokia 770s or other similar WiFi Web tablets that can actually be *use
Re:Money versus power (Score:3, Informative)
I got to test out the Boeing connexion service on a recent flight from Singapore to Paris, where they were giving out something like 15mins of connection free to all passengers that look like they are carrying a laptop. I must say that I was impressed with the service. I thought I felt there was a lag, but like all IP stuff, y
Re:Money versus power (Score:2)
Re:Money versus power (Score:2, Informative)
try ANA (Score:3, Informative)
just FIY.
Re:Money versus power (Score:2)
$27 for the 3-4 hour trips I usually take just doesn't seem worthwhile when most of it is wasted "returning my seatback to its upright position."
Re:Money versus power (Score:2)
There's already a large group of customers that bring their less-than-flight-battery-life laptops on planes every day. It's not ideal, but I can already think of a few people (including myself) who, at the very least, would give it a good hard look. You have to remember that people have been bringing their less-than-flight-duration-laptops on planes for
Whoah (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Whoah (Score:2)
Re:Whoah (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Whoah (Score:5, Informative)
1) A WiFi access point. This is reasonably easy, even if you have to make it play nice on the plane. Flight safety certification/qualification is difficult. The FAA is (understandably) paranoid about such things and I'm glad they are.
2) A connection to the outside world. On an airplane, this is much more difficult. Unless you want the system to be restricted to certain service areas (like CONUS only), this part means "satellite". Satellite means EXPENSIVE. Hell, even to provide full coverage of the CONUS airspace from the ground would be extremely expensive. $1 billion for such infrastructure seems cheap to me.
Re:Whoah (Score:2, Insightful)
I've got a real problem with this. WTF is up with this 'understandably paranoid' statement? The FAA doesn't know what will happen, and refuses to test and qualify *anything* to do with wireless or computers. They refuse to come up with acceptable RF leakage standards,
Re:Whoah (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.issues.org/19.2/strauss.htm [issues.org]
Re:Whoah (Score:2)
No, the FAA is perfectly happy to certify electronics that involve computers or wireless commu
Re:Whoah (Score:2)
What happens when the rules about operating non intentional radiators are ignored by someone who deliberately powers up a wide band jammer or something even more sophisticated that is specifically designed to severe
Re:Billion Dollars and they did not launch satelli (Score:3, Informative)
8mb/s on a 36Mhz transponder? Nope. You can run a full-duplex T3 (45Mbps) on a 36Mhz transponder using 16QAM modulation. It beats the hell out of the transponder, but it can be done.
Tie the AP into an one of the new 450Kb/s BGAN units from Inmarsat. There's full coverage over Europe and Asia with CONUS coming on line in a month or two and the device is no bigger than a laptop.
Re:Whoah (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Whoah (Score:3, Informative)
That means that you would have to mount a phased array antenna. That means cable runs through the pressure vessel, extra drag, lightning protection and testing....
Yes it is a lot more expensive than just plugging in a wap.
Re:Whoah (Score:3, Informative)
I could be wrong but I remember when I flew to Hawaii a few years ago that they told us the phones where not going to work for several hours of the flight. It is pretty logical. At 20,000 ft you have a line of site of better than 200 miles. It wouldn't take that many towers to cover the US and or Europe. I knew a guy with a LanceAir IVP home built. He mounted a FM radio in it for music, he would often pick up stations from a few hundred miles away when he wa
Re:Whoah (Score:2)
Re:Whoah (Score:3, Interesting)
The ILS system (or modern equivilent) is what is most susceptable to interference, thats the system that lands the plane, it can land a plane when the conditions are so bad that the pilot can't see the runway. Modern planes land themselves pretty much, they follow a radio signal to the end of the ru
Re:Whoah (Score:2)
The ever advancing computer industry
Re:Whoah (Score:2)
really? (Score:5, Interesting)
If Boeing wants WiFi to happen on planes, they need to make sure it's universally available, they need to include it free in first/business class, and they need to charge 128kbps) in economy class.
Re:really? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:really? (Score:4, Interesting)
On the other hand, the only way I can see them having spent this kind of dough is on the aircraft transmitters. The satellite time itself is rather cheap, figure $75 an hour for a connection in the amount of bulk that Boeing was buying it in.
A shame or not a shame? (Score:5, Insightful)
If a suitable deal could not be reached, Boeing would be prepared to shut Connexion down, even though the service works as advertised and is used by a handful of international airlines on long-haul flights, one of the sources said.
Boeing has not said how much it has invested in Connexion, but people familiar with the situation say it is about $1 billion, according to the Journal.
Some industry officials say the business, because of lack of interest among U.S. airlines in outfitting their fleets with the system, may be worth no more than $150 million, the report said.
It's amazing that after 6 years with a working system, Boeing won't stick with this. It's been inevitable that Internet access would extend to airplanes and Boeing has it and now plans to give it up. I suspect someone will buy it on the cheap and turn around and make a profit on it in short order. Boeing may rue the day it turned its back on a potentially lucrative market all for lack of patience.
Re:A shame or not a shame? (Score:2, Insightful)
Great Service, but as for power (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Great Service, but as for power (Score:3, Interesting)
$27 access fee? (Score:3, Insightful)
So they lose either for being stupid or being greedy.
Re:$27 access fee? (Score:3, Interesting)
The cheaper alternative. (Score:5, Funny)
IP Soft Phones? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:IP Soft Phones? (Score:2)
Re:IP Soft Phones? (Score:2)
Re:IP Soft Phones? (Score:2, Interesting)
Plenty of people running the Hughes Satellite Internet service are using VOIP with minor issues, but nothing that keeps you from having a conversation. With laptops coming with built-in WAN capabilities nowadays; I think that's how most folks that want access will get access. I've seen plenty
VOIP works fine (Score:3, Informative)
I've used something like it (Score:5, Insightful)
Twelve hours of slow agony is transformed into an almost pleasant experience. When you can email and IM friends and family; check all your regular sites; search and read up on research you didn't have time for earlier; check out an endless variety of flash-games and other trivia. The mediocre in-flight movies just can't compete.
Re:I've used something like it (Score:2, Informative)
Sad to see it go (Score:5, Interesting)
My girlfriend and I had the opportunity to use this onboard Lufhansa flights between the US and Germany a couple of times, and it's really a nice way to pass the time. Well worth the 30 bucks, for us anyway.
Plus freaking out the other business class passengers when we set up a live stream and demonstrated the various positions you can put the seat into live from 30,000 feet to our friends back home :-) Considering that the connection is via geo-sync satellite and double-NATed, I was surprised at how well the streaming worked; only about 2 secs rtt, and we managed to push 200 kbit/s.
Re:Sad to see it go (Score:5, Funny)
There should be some badge or other distinction you get from the Mile High Club for broadcasting the various positions you tried out with your girlfriend.
Re:Sad to see it go (Score:5, Funny)
There should be some badge or other distinction you get from the Mile High Club for broadcasting the various positions you tried out with your girlfriend.
Oh.
My.
God.
Mile High Club live webcam shows. Call it plane porn. You could make an absolute mint...
ObShatner (Score:3, Funny)
Whatever it is going to be (Score:2)
Re:Whatever it is going to be (Score:2)
When will it end... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:When will it end... (Score:3, Informative)
Yeah, maybe [nwsource.com].
Re:When will it end... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:When will it end... (Score:2)
Yes (http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F A0715FB395B0C768EDDAD0894DE404482)
1000000000 dollars and no results? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:1000000000 dollars and no results? (Score:2)
Boeing did not have a substantial military division until it merged with McDonnell-Douglas in the mid-90's. It's two most successful lines- the 737NG and the 777-- were therefore not funded with military contracts. Airbus, on the other hand, has had launch subsidies since it's very beginning, continuing onto today where it is asking for launch aid for the A350. Besides, EADS is a military contractor as well-- shouldn't that count as military subsid
Re:1000000000 dollars and no results? (Score:2)
Re:1000000000 dollars and no results? (Score:2)
Airbus receives loans, which after 1991 have a maximum repayment period of 17 years. The British Government has revealed that it has made a 100% profit on loans for the A320 series, and expects by the end of this decade to
Re:1000000000 dollars and no results? (Score:2)
Airbus has never failed to repay (with interest) it's loans. Airbus is not an airline. Who is being deceptive here?
Re:1000000000 dollars and no results? (Score:2)
really great (Score:4, Insightful)
it'll be really sad if Boeing cancels the service, cuz Connexion is one of my primary reasons I'll fly JAL or Lufthansa.
Re:really great (Score:2)
Re:really great (Score:2)
The latency is high (Score:2)
Re:really great (Score:2)
i think u got the exchange rate reversed.
Jeez that's terrible, (Score:3, Funny)
For what it's worth, I liked the service a lot (Score:2, Informative)
Also keep in mind that most airlines have power outlets in their higher-class seats. Some even have them in every seat. Check out http://www.seatguru.com/ [seatguru.com] to see the ammenities in various airlines' planes.
I even used a softphone (Cisco IP Communicator) and made a phone call from the flight! Sure, there was about a second of lag, but people around me w
Also, the l33tness (Score:4, Funny)
me: OMGHI2U
friend: sup?
me: OMG GUESS WHERE I AM LOL!!!11one
friend: ??
me: THIRTYTHOUSANDFEETHIGH!!
friend: you got some good weed, man...
Aircell Axcess (Score:3, Informative)
A few weeks back Aircell [aircell.com] also picked up the spectrum currently used by verizons air-to-ground telephone service (Magnastar). Air-to-ground communications offers lower latency, higher speed data connections. Magnastar will be phased out starting in 2008, coinciding with Aircells new broadband service.
Aircell is poised to roll out a major broadband service by 2008.
How about just wired Ethernet? (Score:3, Insightful)
I realize that some people's Palm Pilots, etc. don't have Ethernet jacks. But pretty much every laptop does. Wouldn't this at least make the concerns about WiFi-related interference of flight systems just.. go away?
Viable business? How about customer satisfaction? (Score:2)
Companies like Boeing and all the airlines (like American Airlines, et al), should realize that they are in the business of flying people around, not in the ISP business. If they make a buck on WiFi, good for them, but that should not be the motivation to offer WiFi, customer satisfaction should be, an *that* is what makes
Just in case anyone at Boeing is reading this... (Score:2, Insightful)
I actually tried it (Score:2)
About an hour into the flight I get out my laptop to quickly check my email. Wifi connection is great, browser shows a login page that asks for my credit card number. $29.95 for the whole flight. Well, whatever. Man gönnt sich ja sonst nichts.
I briefly consider using http://thomer.com/howtos/nstx.html [thomer.com] [NSTX] and fumble around for a bit, then decide to shell out the dollars because I can't get a connection to my NSTX master. (Later fo
Eventually. . . (Score:2)
Think about it: if you have a laptop, PocketPC, or whatever and know you're going to be suck in a crowded cabin for anyw
Re:Eventually. . . (Score:2, Informative)
What do you base this on? FCC regulations require a dedicated air-to-ground system, which currently does not exist, or an air-to-satellite system. If you want to offer the service over water, then you need to support air-to-sat. If you want low latency over the ground, then you want air-to-ground. Boeing spent Billions setting up the system they have. Yes inmarsat offers a similar service with lower bandwidth. The FAA would not allow WiFi in the ca
Greetings from 33K feet (Score:2)
As for power, I have 220v by the seat. Batteries aren't really a problem here. It isn't that expensive. The only issue is that we need some competition to keep Boeing honest. Perhaps AIrbus can do something if they can get the
It was better than expected (Score:2)
Unfortunately then the battery ran out, and that's the real problem. If in-seat power is impractical, I wonder if airlines could hire out battery power packs instead...
Re:I really hope they don't take it away. (Score:2)
I would think this type of activity would make it easily profitable. I have a relative that travels often for work, and the company pays him to sit on the plane. Since they are paying him anyway, it would be worthwhile if he could get some work done.
Re:Service is awesome (Score:4, Funny)
Connexion for the 11-hour flight: $19.95.
Mod points at 10,000 metres over Kazahkstan: priceless.
Re:Service is awesome (Score:2)