Return of the Web Mob 146
Parore writes "eWeek is running a story about the return of the web mob, highlighting all the similiarities between the online attacks and the real-world mafia. From the article: "Black hat hackers have set up e-commerce sites offering private exploits capable of evading anti-virus scanners. An e-mail advertisement intercepted by researchers contained an offer to infect computers for use in botnets at $25 per 10,000 hijacked PCs. Skilled hackers in Eastern Europe, Asia and Latin America are selling zero-day exploits on Internet forums where moderators even test the validity of the code against anti-virus software."
People that matter don't care (Score:5, Insightful)
Dozens of times when networks I maintain have been attacked I have contacted ISP's with all the information they would need to trace the user performing the attack and notify them that their machine is infected, however, the response I usually recieve is, 'it is our policy not to blah blah blah', when I have had verified hack attempts on my systems and have notified the authorities about it, I have been transfered all over the place, put on hold, transfered a little more until I completely loose interest, when I do get to report something it never gets investigated.
Until the people that can actually do something about these zombie machines and malicious users, get off their asses the problem will just keep getting bigger.
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:5, Insightful)
Users should take responsbility but you are right this will never happen, and a long as it is profitable the malicious users will continue to write their infections, the impact can be minimalised if ISPs take some responsibility for the users they allow to connect.
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:4, Interesting)
Maybe some administrators need to do what they did when there was no enforcement in the American old west. Take justice into their own hands. So you have the IP of a vulnerable bot that is assaulting your network? Nuke the SOB. If you must be friendly, leave a happy little "Your machine has been hijacked and when asked, your ISP was too busy to tell you. So I have conveniently and remotely removed all network drivers from your system."
Or, with a nod to the William Gibson, a little BLACK ICE to damage the foreign system beyond repair.
This is unrealistic I'm sure, illegal almost definately ( proactive self defense ? ). But damn would it be nice.
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:1)
IMO an ISP has no repsonsiblity to provide nothing more than bandwidth and uptime.
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:1)
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:2)
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:4, Insightful)
No matter how tempting a target I make myself, the responsibility for the crime will always remain with the criminal.
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:5, Insightful)
and if, after being the victim, you start being the criminal, you will be held responsible for your crimes. for example: if you get HIV while being raped (btw... that's sad in so many ways I cannot count them) and you later go around merrily spreading it, you are certainly not responsible for being raped but you are for spreading the disease.
wow (Score:1)
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:2, Insightful)
It is something akin to the violation of privacy and destruction of rights of rape, to have ones personal computer invaded by a virus or other malicious code. (yes I know, the severity level is vastly different, but it's the same type). Afterwords, if this personal computer wanders around the Internet having unprotected HTTP with other servers, any who don't have the vaccination are going to pick up whatever it's got.
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:1)
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:5, Insightful)
Besides... responsible people are always the ones who have to pay for everyone else. If I keep my machine clean and safe, why do I have to suffer because you can't keep yours as mine? Is it my fault if you're stupid/misinformed/uninterested? Clearly it is not. On the contrary, I will think you are responsible for any damage (probably just some wasted bandwidth, but still) your machine is causing.
bad analogy (Score:2, Insightful)
Ignorance is different from negligence. And ignorance is not necessarily a negative term. It just highlights the fact that somebody does not know how stuff works in this example.
Driving 150 km/h is already doing too much, knowingly. The problem is when people drive cars they believe to be secure, driving at speed limit, while not knowing that somebody came and slowly started loosening the bolts on the wheels. Until eventually the wheels come off, the person driving the car loses
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:2)
Nah ! He is sitting there atop some 50 billion $s as the richest
man in the world
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:1)
It's called "an attractive nuisance". (Score:2)
It's called "an attractive nuisance", and that's what Bill's company has created in millions upon millions of homes and offices around the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attractive_nuisance [wikipedia.org]
The description in Wikipedia is particularly apt in this case. Bill and the ISPs are the landowners -- "the con
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:1)
I agree with you right up to the "this is of course insane" statement. I think the only solution is to hold the owners of the infected machines responsible, just like we make home owners responsible for shoveling the sidewalks in front of their houses.
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:2)
Snow occurs natually. Your anology would have been more apt if you had said that homeowners are responsible for moving the snow put on their sidewalks by nefarious folks living up the street.
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:1)
Perhaps I didn't use the best of analogies. My point was that the owners of the infected computers are not the (only) victims and should bear some of the responsiblilty for the damage done to third parties by their machines. It doesn't matter that snow occurs "naturally." I didn't cause it to land on my sidewalk, but I'll be sued if I don't take steps to remove it before the postman slips and falls.
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:1)
This will never happen (Score:4, Interesting)
Remember that he's the one that generates money for the ISPs. He's not downloading Terabytes of movies.
He is the one that buys the crappy "download accelerators" and other useless programs.
He is the one that uses online banking.
He is the one that buys at Amazon.com and EBay.
Let's face it, he is the one they shape the internet for! The 'net ain't our net anymore. Hasn't been for well over 10 years now.
Now imagine he's held responsible for what happens out of his box. He doesn't know jack about his PC. He doesn't know he has a zillion dialers, trojans, adbots and whatnot, from klicking EVERYTHING presented to him. He only knows that "the net" somehow "did this" to his PC.
What is he going to do? Learn how to use it? Or stop using it altogether?
Which one is more likely? And would the industry like that reaction?
So will he ever be held responsible?
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:2)
It wasn't completely altruistic. The way our network was set up, an infected user could cause problems for a lot of other customer. So it was in our interest to nip that kind of thing in t
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:1)
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:1)
I understand that it must be frustrating, but think of it like this.
Who has the power to investigate a hack attack that comes from outside of your immediate area? A Federal Authority (the FBI for example), currently their top priority is making sure things don't get blown up. If the crime's result is a couple of hours of annoyance for some sysadmin, they can't be bothered.
I believe that the FBI has a $4,000 threshhold of damage before they will e
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:2)
I had some twit in germany try to hack my server while I was sitting at it doing some work. I turned around and rooted his box, dropped a phone home trojan on it and proceeded to map to his printer. I then printed a message about what I thought of him 999 times. One print submission per page, spaced about 5 seconds apart, and only when he was on-line. The 1000'th page said I was done and reminded him to remove the trojan (with instructions).
Never saw that box try to hack me again (ho
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:2)
Oh, do you mean viruses [wikipedia.org]?
-b
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:2)
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:1)
The next time I had an attempt from someone on their networks. I sent them a form email, detailing all the information about the attack on my network. and that the next time this happened they would receive a bill for $1000 for each attempt on my network orignating from their network. and that unless they replied I would take it as their acceptance. This stopped all occurences from the offend
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:1)
I don't know about that. I work for a company that handles the abuse department of an ISP. One complaint isn't enough to bother with, but if we get 3 or more we make an investigation and are pretty quick to get it resolved. If it's really bad and the source is not responsiv
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:1)
This aproach is something like what people are describing here I guess. I have no regrets.
In the interests of full disclosure, I did not get caugh
Re:People that matter don't care (Score:2)
Is anyone really surprised? (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with anti-virus software is that it is 100% reactionary. The anti-virus companies don't release updates for viruses that they haven't seen yet.
That's why I view viruses/worms as a failure of the security model of the system.
Trojans are a different matter. But even with those there are ways to mitigate the effects. If nothing else, requiring a password before installing an app will solve most of the "naked pictures of celebrity" emails. There will always be a few idiots.
Re:Is anyone really surprised? (Score:1)
No, it won't if their on their Dell. They'll get a dialogue asking for their password and they'll be stupid enough to put it in without a second thought.
Re:Is anyone really surprised? (Score:2)
If there is such an option, it would be pretty trite and
the user would rather turn it off or blindly enter the password
every other time an exe asks to be run. It defeats the whole
purpose. Asking Qs for user affirmation each time an OS does
something is not security.
thats bad security model
Re:Is anyone really surprised? (Score:1)
Re:Is anyone really surprised? (Score:3, Interesting)
Thank the game companies for that. Isn't it just wonderful that anyone with kids has to give them admin rights just so the copy protection software can run on games?
If MS wanted to solve the problem they could, but they have to fight EA, UBIsoft, etc to get it done. Games are the lifeblood of windows in the home. Take them away and there's little reason for people to not use another OS, whether it be linux or mac. So, without another solution, MS isn't
Re:Is anyone really surprised? (Score:2)
Rule Number One of Computer Security:
People will install anything if it promises naked pictures.
Re:Is anyone really surprised? (Score:2)
I have seen anti-virus software that does things like monitor the partition table, important system files, the boot sector, and stuff like that in an attempt to keep viruses from messing with them. Granted, it's not perfect, but keeping watch over things that viruses might try to attack or modify is a proactive move.
heuristic analysis (Score:2)
However, reality bites us in the arse and then we realize that heuristic analysis only goes so far.
The key to having freedom from malware is to have operating systems which do not make it easy for malware to thrive. OSes should not default to having users logging in with administrative priveleges. Applications should not be ab
Foreigners... it's always foreigners. (Score:4, Funny)
Thank God for the calming, lawful influences Mom's Apple Pie, Truth, Justice and Barry Bonds' adrenal glands.
Re:Foreigners... it's always foreigners. (Score:1, Funny)
You forgot Chuck Norris' roundhouse kick, with which he killed all the hackers!
Odd that they don't mention any hacks in any part of the former british empire; the USA, Canada, Austrailia, India....
Maybe it's all them poncy english stiff-upper lips....
Re:Foreigners... it's always foreigners. (Score:2)
Re:Foreigners... it's always foreigners. (Score:2)
I suspect that we're seeing these attacks come from places like Russia instead of places like America/Finland/etc. because mobsters in places like Russia find it easier to reach an under$tanding with the local authorities.
Bullshit (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Foreigners... it's always foreigners. (Score:2, Funny)
It's even more fortunate that there isn't some sort of international network of wires and cables that would let these foreigners attack our computers from overseas.
Gotta admit (Score:2)
One could do a lot with say... $250 worth.
how would they collect (Score:1)
Re:Gotta admit (Score:2)
Ghostbusters?
If you are the sort of person who considers signing up for this, I can introduce you to a prominent member of Nigeria's former government ...
Things That Make You Go Hmmmm... (Score:4, Insightful)
Yet at the same time ATT is channelling massive amounts of customer traffic [slashdot.org] to the NSA for examination and interpretation.
Perhaps someone needs to define Mafia=Terrorist?
Re:Things That Make You Go Hmmmm... (Score:1)
Law enforcement in all aspects has been ineffective and selective for decades.
Re:Things That Make You Go Hmmmm... (Score:1)
Hmm...
Concerned Citizen: Police! Stop that terrorist! ... ?
Police Officer: Terrorist? That's just Mr. Sanderson.
C Cit: Yes, but... He's running with scissors!
P Off:
CC: Well... he could snip the President!
PO: We're in Erehwon, Iowa, son. No president has visited here since Taft!
CC: But... I think he downloaded a copy of Loose Change [loosechange911.com]last week!
PO (running): STOP! You're under arrest for treason!... and running with scissors!
What the article doesn't say (Score:1, Funny)
I got one this morning and so far not&&^*%%£""£[NO CARRIER]
Paging Agent Gill... (Score:3, Insightful)
Vigilante? (Score:2)
Patch them all; GOD@heaven.org will find his own. (Score:2)
No, it's not remotely legal; it's not even vaguely close to ethical. However, it might work. Consider it akin to giving software makers only FOO weeks before the exploit is disclosed; users get only FOO weeks to apply patches against remote exploits before Grey Hats shove the patch up their computer's ass...embly, whether the u
Holy Exploits, Hackman! (Score:3, Funny)
- Quick, To the TuxCave! [nyud.net]
Regarding Linux... (Score:2)
Will Microsoft be able to widthstand this wave of exploits using their current software methodology? Or is Open Source programming the ONLY way?
In other words: Is Microsoft losing the war against viruses?
Re:Regarding Linux... (Score:3, Insightful)
Most likely, yes. "we" aren't the ones spreading virius and unknowingly joining botnets. It's the uneducated person who went to CompUSA or Dell and bought their PC. Those people wouldn't put up with the heightened security of a secure Linux box any more than they would with a secure Windows machien. They would still fall victem to the same trojans. Some virus and worms wo
Look at the Price! (Score:5, Interesting)
However, it occurs to me that the best measure of Microsoft's success in security is the market price for 10,000 infections. For example, if Vista turns out to be an inpenatrible tank, we should see the price go up to 50 or 100 bucks, maybe more.
At the end of the day, until we all stop using the same operating system, we're doomed to a continual barrage of large-scale infections (remember the Irish potato famine?)
Re:Look at the Price! (Score:2, Funny)
Interesting analogy. I guess the difference is that you can't patch a blighted potato.
"Aye, son, just spray a fine mist o' Service Pack 2 o'er that field o' mashers."
Re:Look at the Price! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Look at the Price! (Score:2)
Re:Look at the Price! (Score:1)
Actually, Dr. Ford, a professor at Florida Institute of Technology, did some research into this. In order to have enough diversity to make a dent in it, we would need some ungodly number of different operating systems. You can read about it in the December 2003 issue of Virus Bulletin [virusbtn.com]. It's in PDF format, and you have to do a free regis
Re:Look at the Price! (Score:2)
I'd also like to agree with the point that a mass migration to any other operating system would be fruitless, since the virus writers would follow. However, if we could get ourselves spread out over 5 or six operating systems (check back in 15 years?), folks would have a choice about which classes of viruses they want to get
OpenVMS on the desktop has been a long time coming, but hey, maybe it's time?
Re:Look at the Price! (Score:2)
At $25/10,000, that's $425,346.35 to own all the P.C.'s in the U.S.A.. Anyone want to pitch in?
(Yes, there were a lot of assumptions made. So many, I will
not list them)
Suprised this wasn't mentioned (Score:2, Informative)
It's OK with the FTC Apparently (Score:1)
$25 for 10.000 computers (Score:4, Interesting)
Only kidding of course, well partially. How many botnets consist of linux or OS-X machines?
It does however show just how hopeless windows security is. Even criminals have costs so if they can make a profit after paying their hosting and electricity and hardware and man power with just 25 dollar per 10 thousand machines then the cost and labour of infecting a windows machine must truly be trivial.
Lets face it the mafia doesn't do it for penny profits. They are not supermarkets surviving on a 1 cent per sale profit. They want millions and they want them now.
How many times $25 does it take to intrest a mobster?
Frankly I don't think the problem is going to go away. The idea that MS is ever going to provide a secure OS is laughable and even if they did nothing helps against a dimwitted user who happily installs anything if it promises a nudie picture.
They only two easy solutions I see is to install a serious watchdog on the net. One who can kick off ISP's that host the mob AND users who let their PC's get infected.
Would that be workable? Even "respectable" western ISP's barely respond to complaints about attacks. We got a spam watchdog that already kicks of ISP off the email net when they misbehave and this just barely works. If the same was applied officially to the net as a whole entire parts of the world would be disconnected.
Perhaps it is just something we got to live with. The real live mafia never went away. Why should the net be any different. As long as their is money to made people will attempt to get it.
Re:$25 for 10.000 computers (Score:1)
no, I don't have a reference, some man in the pub told me..
Prices tell a story (Score:3, Insightful)
Hypothesis: the mob are the buyers of botnets, not the sellers, and the sellers are in a worse negotiating position.
Hypothesis: supply of infected machines exceeds demand.
Hard to tell which is correct.
Zero-day exploit pricing is interesting too. I've seen numbers like $500 or $1000. If that reflects supply and demand then Windows machines are still pathetically vulnerable. In any event, that means that any stalker or divorce investigator could afford one.
Anyone s
Re:$25 for 10.000 computers (Score:1)
Wrong. The mafia wants to steal what you won't notice that much. They only go after sure things. If I recall correctly the biggest heist in US history by the mob was of Lufstansa Airlines, for like $5 million in the early 80's. Everything else was usually skimming casinos, robbing shippers and reselling the goods on the street, protection rackets,
Re:$25 for 10.000 computers (Score:1)
There is little to no relation between the investment and the number of captured machines; it is about the 'quality' of the exploit. A kid can do it from the attic using his dad's old computer and no hosting but what botnets and unverified credit card number
Some don't care, some don't understand... (Score:5, Insightful)
While Opping on irc, I noted a person claiming to sell laptops at 1/2 retail cost.. new ones. I pretended interest, and got some contact info.. forwarded this on to law enforcement for his area... within a week, the detective emailed me to say they'd busted a fraud ring. It was tangible, they could deal with it
Internet crimes still deal a lot in the virtual world, and if you haven't been trained on how to.. visualize and understand it, it's a tough concept. Not everyone gets it.
As with a lot of things, the key would be training. You're probably not going to get a small town sheriff trained, however some of the larger sheriff's departments would be excellent centers for this.. keep it to county level, forward to state or federal if needed.
But some are trying (Score:4, Interesting)
What bugs me are the amateurs. There's a certain nexus between the sleazy side of the porn world and financial crimes, so I've spent a bunch of time in places that, at first blush, might seem more titillating than profitable. You would not believe how many transparently fake attempts are made by local, often small-town cops to entice people into illegal behavior. By far, the most common problem is the "I'm a 12-year-old girl. Would you like to talk to me about sex?" thing. Yes, some of them are that crude. Apparently, there are a bunch of Barney Fifes out there who have convinced their bosses to set up an AOL account for them in a back room at the police station for the purpose of generating a few easy, cheap, and sensational arrests that'll get the name of the local DA in the paper before the next election.
I used to wish they'd just go away, but afaik perhaps they already have. I haven't worked in lead generation for several years so I haven't been in any of those places in quite a while.
Anybody have any recent experience with this? Are there still woefully clueless LEOs out there popping up at inappropriate places pretending to be hot-to-trot preteens? God, I hope not; they were a royal pain in the ass.
Re:But some are trying (Score:2)
Re:Some don't care, some don't understand... (Score:4, Informative)
They are all tangible at some point. Someone uses a stolen credit card number to buy a widget. Sure, it takes 20 steps of "cyber crime" until the actual fraud is committed, but the crimes always come back to the physical. The problem is that the physical is too late to stop, in most cases.
I called the FBI on two occassions and told them of people that were trying to defraud me. They asked, "did they already get any money from you?" when I told them I wasn't that stupid, they said they weren't intersted in the solicited fraud. They wouldn't investigate without actual loss, they are too busy to prevent crime or catch people that probably did successfully defraud others. They'd rather have the open case they can ignore when the next person doesn't know what a 419 is...
Reason #1 security information should be released (Score:3, Informative)
Public release will serve the following purposes:
1. To inform the consumer of a problem/vulnerability so that action can be taken sooner.
2. To kick the vendor in the ass and make him move on the issue.
3. To prevent underground organizations from creating secret exploits that might otherwise go unnoticed or unidentified.
3a. To prevent commercial gain by exploiting the knowledge of such secret/unknown security problems.
Release isn't understanding (Score:3, Insightful)
You presume that Joe or Jane Consumer will necessarily:
a) Hear
b) Pay attention
c) Understand
d) Be able to do something
e) Do something
Color me skeptical.
3. To prevent underground organizations from creating secret exploits that might otherwise go unnoticed or unidentified.
No, this only means that when someone else finds the hole, you can check if their have been black hats using it. A few of the Black Hat grou
And people wonder... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:And people wonder... (Score:1)
I totally agree. The folks over at Mozilla have no problem producing a secure web browser. It must not be too hard either, they give it out for free. You mean to tell me Microsoft can't (or won't) do that?
Re:And people wonder... (Score:1)
But, the fact is, people love eye candy and easy use. Mr. Bill knows this, so thats all he puts into Windows. Nothing more.
This practice has gotten him enough money to feed all the starving nations in the world for a year or more, so he has no reason to change anything about his OS.
Maybe one day the world will wake up and switch to a secure OS.
Join the penguins of the computer revolution!
IE purchase? (Score:5, Funny)
When i went to purchase these 25,000 computers with my trusty Internet Explorer v4.0, I actually got A DEAL!. They tossed in a extra computer now I control 25,001. These guys are soo nice!.
Not only that... (Score:2, Funny)
If only their power could be used for good... (Score:1)
Re:If only their power could be used for good... (Score:1)
Re:If only their power could be used for good... (Score:1)
Analogy (again) (Score:1)
[1] Those zero day exploits wouldn't exist (or, wouldn't be useful even if they existed) if Windows code was open to see and modify. For example, the most severe security bug (sudo password saved in plain text) I saw in
You to can be rich!! Secrets revealed!! (Score:2, Funny)
Oddly Appropriate Quotation (Score:4, Interesting)
You can do more with a kind word and a gun than with just a kind word. -- Al Capone
AV software is akin to a kind word when it comes to combating the net mafia.
During the Wild West days when law enforcement was scarce, militias and posses were deputized to keep the peace. Today, police and government are stretched thin, so Congress should deputize 'white hats' to attack/track down virus writers. This has got to be better than the reactionary stuff we are legally permitted to use.
Re: email advertisment (Score:2, Insightful)
Dear researches i would like to make you an even better offer recently my good friend the president of nigeria was killed and he had left me a huge amount of money but i need help getting it out of the country for pay the fee for all the legal paper work and transfers i will give you 20% of my 100 million inheretence
Cluster (Score:1)
Blaming "the system" (Score:2)
The problem lies in the placement of the criminal. In a normal, tangible crime, the criminal has to go to the place of his crime. You want to steal my car, you have to go to my car and steal it. You want to break into my home, you have to come to me and crowbar my door. You w
Not exactly mafia tactics (Score:2, Insightful)
I'd think the mafia would build enterprise-ready e-commerce sites and then "persuade" businesses to purchase hosting from them. You know, the old protection racket.
None of this $25 a pop retail sales stuff. That's just monkey business.
web mob or webmob? (Score:2, Interesting)
Understanding the "real" mob (Score:3, Interesting)
For people who want to understand the "real" "mob", they need to understand the Underground Economy (UE). What they need to understand is business and commerce. 90% of UE transactions is just regular business trying to aviod taxes and regulations. They have an elaborate offshore finance network that can transfer money arround the world faster than governments can track it. Most of the money is gained thru (some) female services, hotels, casinos, people smuggeling, and (some) drugs, and the biggest one - tax free duty free trade - and not thru online hacking nor thru draining peoples bank accounts or even defrauding people. In fact, they try to distance themselves from these activities because they want return customers built on a trust relationship. Most fortune 500 companies have regular dealings in the UE.
It is highly factioned, and some people do try to blackmale, eg (give us money, or don't report us when we rob you or else such and such government will find out about your hidden transactions) - but this is mostly on a rogue individual level and not a large commercial level. In fact, when the FBI trackes these people down - it helps the UE, because it lowers their transaction costs and liabilities. Also, if they need access to secure systems, they don't need to hack into them. They have a lot of high level bank officers and government officials in their pockets. The real UE also hates terrorisim which in the last few years has increased their transaction costs several fold. The goal is to hide financial transactions from taxes, regulation, and rogue lawsuits, not to hide finances for terrorisim. Also most of the UE is split between drugs. Many try to distance themselves from the drug trade to avoid the higher costs of business, but the money is so big that it can't be ignored all together.
Another thing that most people don't understand is that the war on drugs and the financial part of the war on terrorisim is really just an excuse to wage war on the UE. When corporate money associates the UE with drug lords and terrorisim, then they tend to keep their money at home more where their respective governments can tax the living daylights out of them. Given the costs of the war on terror, the big welfare states of most governments, and really really bad fundamentals of the US dollar lately - this has become a high proiroty for the US government in recent times.
One more thing, the US dollar is in deep deep shit. The US economy can't pay off it's debts without watering down the dollar (or default which they can't do because it will cause a cascading chain of defaults), but they cant water down the dollar without sparking a stagflation spiral. When it spirals out of controll it will cause hell in the US and every country in the world. Anyone who doesn't have precious metals is either stupid, poor, or going to be poor. It used to be that the dollar was the currency of choice for the UE, then when the dollar devalued the currency of choice became the Euro, now the currency of choice has been moving quickly torard Gold.
Re:Understanding the "real" mob (Score:2)
Well the end tag about Gold was a little off topic, but your analsys is wrong. It's clear that you don't understand what drove it up to $600 (todays close), so it's also clear that you don't understand why the switch to Gold as a trade currency means that it has to reach a mininum of $1600/oz to reach equilibrium. Where it goes from there is anyones guess, but given the track record of other governments (including confederate money) in similar situations it does not look pretty.
As for the US dollar - we'