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Portables HP Businesses SuSE Hardware

HP Linux Laptop Is A Winner 412

Posted by michael from the laptop-special-olympics dept.
minus_273 writes "MSNBC is currently running a story on the front page reviewing the new HP Linux laptops. In a story titled 'H-P's first Linux laptop a winner', the article provides a brief look at the accomplishments and some of the shortcomings of the nx5000; a new inexpensive HP business laptop that comes with SUSE installed. The author seems extremely happy about how everything just works out of the box and mentions the significance of the product. Could HP+SUSE go the way of Apple+BSD and become an option for those that want friendly non-windows laptop? Releasing an easy to use Linux system is a good first step." We mentioned this laptop a few weeks ago.
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HP Linux Laptop Is A Winner More

HP Linux Laptop Is A Winner

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  • First Post (Score:4, Funny)

    by Trigun ( 685027 ) <<xc.hta.eripmelive> <ta> <live>> on Friday August 27, 2004 @04:55PM (#10091694)
    From my Suse/HP Laptop!

    YESS! Now to hibernate!
    • "YESS! Now to hibernate!"

      * Trigun closes laptop lid and waits for hibernation

      * Trigun keeps waiting

      * Trigun is still waiting

      * Trigun reopens lid and looks at the configuration

      * Trigun screams in frustration as he searches for the auto-hibernate settings

      * Trigun throws the laptop out the window and gets a Mac

      ;-)

      • Re:First Post (Score:4, Interesting)

        by advocate_one ( 662832 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @05:15PM (#10091893)
        not as much fun as I had the other day with XP on my laptop... I closed the lid while the machine was booting up in XP... I then re-opened the lid some twenty minutes later and the damned thing crashed with "Windows has encounter an unexpected error" message... it couldn't survive having the lid closed during the boot sequence...

        Mind you, I have never yet managed to get acpi working for Linux on that laptop (Packard bell iGo 4450, really a rebadged NEC Versa E400), but maybe that's because I'm scared of having to recompile my kernel... when the heck will the major distro vendors supply their distros with a precompiled laptop kernel??? or is this just too difficult an option

        • Re:First Post (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Zaiff Urgulbunger ( 591514 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @05:33PM (#10092017)
          I've got a PB iGO4450 too!! :-D

          I have SuSE 8.2 Pro installed on it, and I thought the same thing about have to recompile (I think one of the messages implies this). You don't have to. My notes (for SuSE linux btw) are:

          "After installing SuSE 8.2 on the PB iGo 4450, ACPI is not enabled. To enable it, simply to into YaST2-->System-->Runlevel Editor-->Runlevel Properties and enable ACPI and check the runlevel 5 box. AFAIK the battery monitor is the only service currently working-- the suspend functions have not been implemented yet."

          HTH!

          ps. I've also got the modem working... say if you want the notes on how to do this.

        • Re:First Post (Score:3, Interesting)

          by timmi ( 769795 )
          Of course I never understood why using "Start -- Suut down -- turn off the computer" and then closing the lid would cause windows XP to hibernate, and when I powered up again later, it booted, finished shutting down and turned off.

      • hibernate (Score:5, Informative)

        by Janek Kozicki ( 722688 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @05:40PM (#10092055) Journal
        hibernation on my toshiba tecra 8100 with kernel 2.6.8.1 works perfectly, with latest kernel patches [berlios.de]. I use debian so a line in /etc/apt/sources.list :

        deb http://cp.yi.org/apt/hibernate ./

        makes sure I have latest hibernate scripts.

        I just assigned 'sudo /sbin/hibernate' to "sleep" button in my session manager [sourceforge.net]. I also had set up sleepd to hibernate when battery drops to 5% (which is usually 2 hours).
        And, yes - there is a glitch - if I hibernate with blender or glxgears running, then after restore the 3d acceleration gets screwed up, and sooner or later I want to restart Xserver anyway (graphic card is s3 savage).

        • Re:hibernate (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Blakey Rat ( 99501 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @07:26PM (#10092870)
          God forbid somebody make a post like that without the obligatory "works for me!" reply that utterly misses the point.

          "Hibernate works for me! All I had to do is upgrade the kernel, change a line in my etc/apt/sources.list, assign a 'sudo' command with a session manager, set up 'sleepd' to hibernate when the battery drops and there are a couple glitches that mean I have to restart my window session, but hibernate works great! It was SO EASY!"

          Feh, Linux users.

          • You utterly missed the point (Feh, Insightful) (Score:4, Interesting)

            by mangu ( 126918 ) on Saturday August 28, 2004 @08:18AM (#10095458)
            The point of the whole article was in presenting one laptop where all the tricky configuration details, e.g. making the hibernate function work, have been taken care of by the manufacturer.


            The post you responded to mentioned another laptop where one has to manually configure the hibernate function. The post was informative, because it described in detail how to do it. Now, pay attention, here's the one point which you utterly missed:


            This is what makes Open Source Software so great


            If the hibernate or any other function isn't working correctly in a commercial, closed source, software computer, what do you do? (1) hire a consultant, (2) call 1-800-EAT-SHIT, (3) sit down in a corner and cry? With FOSS, you get other alternatives: (1) Google the error, (2) ask the right on-line forum, (3) read Slashdot. I saved the text of the post you commented to, in my tips.txt file, because even if I don't have a need to configure a hibernate function right now, that's a very informative post. I might need to use exactly those steps or some variation of them in the future.


            However, contrary to what FOSS detractor FUD preaches, normal users do not need to perform all those tricky little steps for every small configuration detail. The article itself had some subtle misinformation, giving the impression that there isn't any good package installation system in Linux.


            The truth is, installing and configuring most software in Linux is simpler and easier than in MS-Windows these days. Using synaptic to install a package or even typing "apt-get install something" in the console is much easier than navigating through a maze of windows, clicking on all those buttons, accepting license agreements, filling in all your life's details in the on-line registration form, etc, etc... Then in the end, where the fsck did the files go? Are they under C:\Program Files, or in C:\My Documents? Or maybe in C:\Windows\System? And, God forbid you having any non-English character in your file names, because then you have to configure the right Code Page! And don't forget to update your anti-virus, because your newly installed software requires the latest anti-virus system to work reliably.


            A positive example of good moderation in Slashdot, I was just browsing the story and found that post, correctly modded to +5, Informative.

  • What is more amazing? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 27, 2004 @04:56PM (#10091697)
    MSNBC is currently running a story on the front page reviewing the new HP Linux laptops. In a story titled 'H-P's first Linux laptop a winner',

    or

    LinuxJournal is currently running a story on the front page reviewing the new HP Windows laptops. In a story titled "HP Windows laptops kick ass"...
    • ...once word filters up to Mr. Gates about this little article...

      /P

      • Are you kidding me? Bill probably commissioned the story in the first place!
        Now he can tell the European Commission's antitrust unit [slashdot.org] how he's pro-competition!

        /me adjusting tinfoil hat


        --
        I always wanted an iPod [freeipods.com] how about you?

      • No they won't (Score:5, Insightful)

        by swordboy ( 472941 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @05:28PM (#10091977) Journal
        They have to make it "sound like a winner" in order to get credibility. If you read on, you'll see that they don't recommend the PC for anyone who isn't a Linux expert because You still need to know a lot more about the inner workings of a computer to excel on a Linux machine.

        So, basically, they said that its great but they don't suggest that 99 percent of the Joe Users out there buy the thing. Safe.

        But the article does have points. When the hell are we going to see some standards in Linux to sort this out? Here's my list of needs/wants:

        1) Standard control panel through EVERY distro & desktop environment. Gnome and KDE need to learn how to play nice. Obviously, this will involve some work at lower levels by others. We need everyone to create some STANDARDS here.

        2) An installer. n00b's don't know what the hell a freakin' tar.gz file is and once they do figure it out, they don't know to where they should extract it. If Linux had a standardized software installer (complete with a dedicated file extension that could be "picked up" from a browser click), we'd see a huge Linux section on download.com. Yes - I realize that there are some nice things out there but we need a STANDARD to which every desktop distro can adhere (or else they don't get that fluffy "Desktop Linux Compliant" sticker that the industry also needs to invent).

        3) Rules for software companies. Right now, there's no problems with this as there are with Windows because Linux hasn't become mainstream. What am I talking about? Software installs run amok. I hate to see Windows programs putting shortcuts *everywhere* - quick launch, desktop, taskbar, programs menu (and sometimes right even off of the top of the start menu). Some of them even install their own "tool bars". WTF? If Linux doesn't fix this NOW, before it becomes desktop mainstream, we're gonna have to live with it forever. We don't need uninstall icons right off of the program menu if there's another way to do it in the control panel. FORCE companies to put software installs in ONE LOCATION. Put it off of root? Sure, why not? Nobody's stopping me.

        Forever.

        Hell... its Friday so I'm gonna go now. I really wish there were a place to submit all these suggestions that I've got.

        • Re:No they won't (Score:5, Informative)

          by wsapplegate ( 210233 ) <wsapplegate@est.un.goret.info> on Friday August 27, 2004 @06:25PM (#10092411) Homepage

          > 1) Standard control panel through EVERY distro & desktop environment. Gnome and KDE need to learn how to play nice. Obviously, this will involve some work at lower levels by others. We need everyone to create some STANDARDS here.

          You could maybe lend a hand. The source is available, you know. First problem to tackle : write configuration software that will parse *any* configuration file thrown at it. That's not so trivial. Some configuration files have very hairy syntax (*cough* Sendmail *cough*). Next, make sure your software doesn't do a big mess while writing changes, this will irk power users (I did make a clean, commented /etc/fstab, and the stupid Mandrake configuration tool wrote back a mangled thing without comments or indentation. This is not acceptable). I wish you good luck. This ain't a piece of cake, to say the least.

          Still, there are efforts in this area. One example would be the GNOME System Tools [gnome.org]. Although I won't settle for something less than stellar, this kind of software could satisfy you. As for your demand that everything should be the same from distro to distro, I just can't understand why that would be. The very point of having more than one distro is, we get to choose which one is best suited to our working methods. And, generally, we end up settling on one preferred distro and we don't move anymore (instead, we go trolling on Web forums saying it is the best distro ;-)) For my part, I chose Debian. But I guess it wouldn't please you. That's why you'll be so happy when you'll be able to get Mandrake or SuSE (or Fedora, or Gentoo, or even Slackware, whatever).

          > 2) An installer. n00b's don't know what the hell a freakin' tar.gz file is and once they do figure it out, they don't know to where they should extract it. If Linux had a standardized software installer (complete with a dedicated file extension that could be "picked up" from a browser click)

          An installer... you mean, like apt-get ? You know, that tool you just tell 'install foobar', and it downloads and installs the program foobar ? Or would you like some graphical thingie like Synaptic [nongnu.org], where you just click on the program, then on Install ? Don't tell me you're still building from source without some specific reason on a 2004 distro ? That's SO nineties ;-) Also, I gather you want the files to have specific extensions. I'm not sure why (MIME types are way better metadata to identify files), but be advised the .rpm and .deb extensions are just that. Ain't life cool ?

          > 3) Rules for software companies. Right now, there's no problems with this as there are with Windows because Linux hasn't become mainstream. What am I talking about? Software installs run amok. I hate to see Windows programs putting shortcuts *everywhere*

          Then, you'll just LOVE Linux : you see, the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard [pathname.com] specifies very clearly where files go on a Linux distribution : binaries (executables) in /usr/bin, libraries in /usr/lib, data files in /usr/share/{programname}, and so on. The menus also have been unified between KDE and GNOME. Not to mention that package management makes it a lot easier to know what your package has really installed, and you'll be sure to find your configuration and documents in your home directory. No more nightmares finding them in C:\Program Files\Foobar\Obscure\Path\Name\You\Would\Never\Hav e\Thought\Of. Linux makes managing your software a breeze :-)

          That's it. I hope I've been helpful, and I wish you good luck in your quest for a better Linux. But remember : diversity and freedom to experiment with your own solutions is what appeals so much to Linux users. A more rigid f

        • Re:No they won't (Score:3, Informative)

          by adrianbaugh ( 696007 )
          Gnome and KDE will always have some different config requirements because, well, they're different systems. There will always be some things they do differently - just like vi and emacs have different configs. However, where I agree with you is that the stuff that is common - dealing with X, with hardware config, font rendering and so on - should be configged in a similar way. Obviously there will have to be different clients (Qt and GTK+), but the backend should be the same (if that is true then the client

    • Re:What is more amazing? (Score:5, Funny)

      by ForemastJack ( 58751 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @05:31PM (#10092002)

      No, no. You picked the wrong statement out of the writeup. The truely amazing line is:

      "We mentioned this laptop a few weeks ago."

      Why? Because it implies that /. editors have some knowledge of what stories they've run in the recent past.

      I know that was quite a shock to me.

  • I am surprised.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Dr Reducto ( 665121 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @04:56PM (#10091702) Journal
    I am amazingly surprised that an HP Linux laptop would become a sleeper hit like this. I mean, I thought it wasn't going to get much press and that it would only be purchased by people who really want pre-installed Linux.

    • Re:I am surprised.... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Trigun ( 685027 ) <<xc.hta.eripmelive> <ta> <live>> on Friday August 27, 2004 @05:00PM (#10091752)
      Not really. Getting hibernate to work on a laptop, as well as any exotic functions requires quite a bit of work/digging. The vendors have the resources and knowhow to create the software for it, since they built the hardware.

      Servers I'll install myself, Desktops I'll install myself. I control the hardware that goes into them. Laptops however, I don't have so much control.
      • Plus it makes more sense to get it to work once, and then install it on all shipped portables, plus a lot of linux users have been craving quite long for a "native linux" portable. Knowing that all the hardare will work under linux is very reassuring.
        • From the article:"When I install Linux on my personal laptops I usually have to buy software to watch a movie."

          What the hell is this guy talking about? ogle and mplayer play DVD's just fine out of the box on my boxes...

    • Re:I am surprised.... (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Walmart notebook Mobile Athlon 1600+... $600 flat!!! Rip away Win XP home edition and you got one nice but cheap litle screamer. I hope they come up with a Linux edition though, for a few bucks less.

    • Re:I am surprised.... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Bastian ( 66383 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @05:10PM (#10091835)
      I would buy one, and I might even keep the pre-installed Linux if it were a distribution that I use [slackware.com], but even if I wanted to put something else [debian.org] on my machine, I would still be happy just to have a laptop where I have an assurance that all of the hardware in the machine is going to work reasonably well with Linux.

    • Re:I am surprised.... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Otter ( 3800 )
      I am amazingly surprised that an HP Linux laptop would become a sleeper hit like this. I mean, I thought it wasn't going to get much press and that it would only be purchased by people who really want pre-installed Linux.

      Ummm, maybe I'm missing something but where did the article say anything about sales numbers?

      Anyhoo, as long as I'm posting, I was puzzling over:

      For instance, software installs aren't as easy to figure out as on a Windows or Mac computer. You must figure out on your own things like where

  • Not a negative choice (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sita ( 71217 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @04:57PM (#10091710)
    Could HP+SUSE go the way of Apple+BSD and become an option for those that want friendly non-windows laptop?

    People don't buy Macs because they don't want a Windows machine, they buy Macs because they like Macs!

    • Re:Not a negative choice (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Itsik ( 191227 )
      However, on the Macs the OS is made to work with the hardware and vice versa. Does it mean that if this picks up. Manufacturers will realize the potential and make sure that their laptop's hardware is Linux friendly as well?

    • Re:Not a negative choice (Score:4, Informative)

      by GreatDrok ( 684119 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @05:09PM (#10091829) Journal
      I bought a Mac (iBook G4 14") because I was sick of the increasingly poor quality of Intel based laptops. My last Toshiba cost me £1500 and it didn't even last 18 month before it was dead. My iBook cost me £1000 and it is already 10 months old and still in great shape having been used just as much as the Toshiba was. By this point the Toshiba case was cracked and chipped, the paint had rubbed off where my palms rest and the screen was starting to flicker. Eventually the battery died and then the screen failed.

      I never used Windows on my laptops, I always made sure they could run decently with Linux. The best bit with the Mac is it is Unix and everything works right out of the box.

      I think it is good that Intel based laptops are appearing with Linux preinstalled but I still think a Mac is better value. This is my first Mac and it definitely won't be my last.

    • Re:Not a negative choice (Score:4, Insightful)

      by nine-times ( 778537 ) <nine.times@gmail.com> on Friday August 27, 2004 @05:11PM (#10091853) Homepage
      People don't buy Macs because they don't want a Windows machine, they buy Macs because they like Macs!

      Not necessarily. For me, being a Mac user is a somewhat negative choice. I vote with my wallet, and therefore don't want to buy another copy of Windows. The other obvious option is a Linux or BSD type Unix-alike, but they aren't quite as effortless as I'd like, and they don't come with apps (that I've found) that quite measure up to Dreamweaver and Photoshop. A Machintosh, while not really perfect either, satisfies my needs.

      My point is, though there are people who are very devoted to Apple, many Mac users are people who understand none of these OS's or architectures are perfect, but Apple just represents the best choice we can find.

  • MSNBC? Said good things about Linux and HP? (Score:5, Funny)

    by ackthpt ( 218170 ) * on Friday August 27, 2004 @04:58PM (#10091722) Homepage Journal
    Bill: I want his head on a stick.
    Steve: We can't do that, it'd be murder.
    Bill: Ruin his career then, have him sent to North Korea as a technology correspondent.
    Steve: Yes, Master.

  • Wow, suprised MSNBC would (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Wow, suprised MSNBC would put a pro-linux title and article on the front page

  • Not the same (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dfj225 ( 587560 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @04:59PM (#10091732) Homepage Journal
    Don't get me wrong, I like Linux and I think it is great that you can finally buy a Linux laptop where everything just works, but I still think it trails behind Apple. I can run Photoshop and MS Office on my iBook without any gimmicks or compromises like I would need to run them on a Linux laptop. Also, when I buy new hardware or look for a new program, there is a pretty good chance that there is support of OS X. The chance of finding mainstream items that support Linux is still very slim.

    • huhuhu... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Azureflare ( 645778 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @05:11PM (#10091858)
      Isn't this the classic chicken before the egg problem?

      Will widespread acceptance of linux occur only when dominant software makers support linux, or will widespread acceptance of linux cause dominant software makers to support linux?

      Which will come first?

      It's my opinion that widespread usage will occur first. Then software giants will realize the demand, and they will start supporting it.

      Linux deserves respect and support from vendors, and I believe it will get it soon.

    • Not quite. If it's a Microsoft product, you are likely being forced to settle for second best if you are running anything short of the latest Win32 binary. Now the Macs clearly won't run this without "gimmicks" either.

      Of course that all becomes moot if you were never into the "one true interface" to begin with.

      It's a Macintosh? Why run Monopolyware applications?

    • Re:Not the same (Score:4, Insightful)

      by LS ( 57954 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @05:30PM (#10091993) Homepage
      Why is this insightful? Why is this a comparison with OS X??? I think the big deal here is that this is a FREE OS. You are thinking "non-windows". I'm thinking "non-commercial", "non-proprietary". In that case, OS X and Windows are in the same boat. Go use Windows instead of OS X if you want the best hardware support.

      LS

  • Reviewer seems VERY easy to impress (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JUSTONEMORELATTE ( 584508 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @04:59PM (#10091734) Homepage
    The author seems extremely happy about how everything just works out of the box

    Just how low is the fsking bar when a reviewer has to note that nothing was broken when he first powered on the system?
    C'mon people, raise your standards for a "good" system!
    --
    I always wanted an iPod [freeipods.com] how about you?

    • MOD PARENT UP! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by still_sick ( 585332 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @05:10PM (#10091843)
      Yeah, it's Linux so in Slashdot's eyes they instantly get 10 cool points, but come on.

      Stuff not working out of the box is noteworthy in a bad way. Everything working the way that it's supposed to is just what's supposed to happen.

      Yeah, I know for a long time it was a criticism of Linux that driver support sucked - so in a way I can understand why he'd mention it. But the fact that everything is supported on the laptop is not a good (TM) thing. It's merely the absence of a bad thing.

      It's like saying that a new Windows Laptop was the best ever because it didn't explode when powered up, and didn't cause severe burns to the user's lap. Yeah, great that that's true, but it's not something to go around advertising - that would just show that you expected otherwise.

      • Re:MOD PARENT UP! (Score:4, Insightful)

        by _Sprocket_ ( 42527 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @06:20PM (#10092378)


        Stuff not working out of the box is noteworthy in a bad way. Everything working the way that it's supposed to is just what's supposed to happen.

        I agree to a point. When FooCorp sells a laptop running Linux, one should expect it all to work. And there are smaller outfits that do just that - Linux laptops, fully functional (the author notes this but fails to stress the "everything works" angle at that point).

        But the reality of laptop hardware is that it is often a very hostile environment to the end user wishing to install their own OS. And since Linux is not commonly offered, most user experiences with Linux and laptops is a trial of compromises, hacks, and quasi-functionality. Linux users have become used to asking about compatibility when looking at laptop purchases.

        Incidently, Windows faces the same problems. My last discount laptop came with WinME and an option to upgrade to WinXP. I wasn't interested in either option but I had a spare copy of Win2K. Installing this on my laptop was as much a trial as installing Mandrake (both generally worked - but it required considerable effort to get both supporting all my laptop features).

        Now, I would have had an easier time installing WinXP. After all, the manufactorer offered it as an option and offers all the appropriate drivers, etc. And that's the real point of this article.

        Want Linux running well on a laptop? But one that's compatible. HP has provided one. Out of the box.

    • Re:Reviewer seems VERY easy to impress (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Querty ( 1128 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @07:24PM (#10092853) Homepage
      Really, I have yet to see more than 50% of windows machines (desktop/laptop) work 100% out of the box. You must be one lucky guy...
  • How soon before Gary Krakow, the columnist, is out of a job at MSNBC for such a glowing article about Linux. Perhaps it was a coincidence, but Salon.com recommended dumping IE, and soon thereafter Microsoft announced it was selling Salon.com

  • In a related story . . . (Score:5, Funny)

    by kelzer ( 83087 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @04:59PM (#10091741) Homepage
    Microsoft has announced it's putting its share of MSNBC up for sale.
  • I didn't see any price quote from the article, but MSNBC stated the model is currently available with windows. HP sells the SuSe based notebook for the same price, or likely more expensive, and gets big money off the consumer. This could turn out well anyway, but likely they'll sabatoge (sp) their own market.
    • " I didn't see any price quote from the article"

      Like this one?

      "Street prices for the nx5000 will begin at $1,140.Add extra memory, a larger hard drive, a DVD writer, a better screen plus 802.11g and the total should be a lot more."
    • "Street prices for the nx5000 will begin at $1,140.Add extra memory, a larger hard drive, a DVD writer, a better screen plus 802.11g and the total should be a lot more."
    • I didn't see any price quote from the article

      hard to see a quote from the article if you didn't even read the article...

      "Street prices for the nx5000 will begin at $1,140.Add extra memory, a larger hard drive, a DVD writer, a better screen plus 802.11g and the total should be a lot more."

      Also worth noting, is that is right in the same ballpark as the Apple iBooks in performance and features and cost...
    • at the end of TFA $1,140 [msn.com]
      What I wish they would have had was the price with Windows installed instead, as was listed as an option.

  • Here (Score:3, Interesting)

    by dandydd ( 808907 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @05:00PM (#10091748)
    I work at a major university. I have been trying forever to get my boss to purchase all our machines with linux on them (he kept claiming that HP required us to buy them with windowsm which was true a while back). We went to Novell brainshare and saw SUSe 9.0 in action and linux has come a long way. SUSE 9.1 "looks even better (more eye candy at least)
    It wasn't ready for my laptop about a year and a half ago but maybe now it is.

    It's for real [wired.com]. I normally don't go for these things but...Free ipods (click here to get yours) [freeipods.com] .
  • Can the rumored MS/NBC split be far off now? Slate criticized IE, gets put on the block. We hear rumors of an ms/nbc split, and now msnbc is running positive reviews of MS' competition.

    At least this proves that there's some speech left in the media not being controlled by the coporate overlords (who, if they're reading this, I for one welcome...)

  • HP and Linux (Score:5, Informative)

    by brilinux ( 255400 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @05:03PM (#10091768) Journal
    I put Gentoo on my HP ze5600, and I have been quite impressed. The winmodem works, the ATI Radeon works, the WiFi works with NDIS Wrapper, and even ACPI hibernate mode seems to work fine. I hope that companies like HP continue to support more variety in their OS options.

  • Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by idiot900 ( 166952 ) * on Friday August 27, 2004 @05:03PM (#10091776)
    First, props to MSNBC for continuing to dispel the idea that they are an MS shill.

    Second, here's a quote from the article:
    For instance, software installs aren't as easy to figure out as on a Windows or Mac computer. You must figure out on your own things like where to store the software and associated programs and how to handle permissions. These are not things most consumers want to do. Installs should be easy to find when completed. That's not always the case for new Linux users.

    What is the writer referring to? RPMs know where to install themselves, and what permissions to set. And does SuSE not have a menu system a la the Debian menu, which inserts itself in the various desktop environments?

  • Ok... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Cyno01 ( 573917 ) <Cyno01@hotmail.com> on Friday August 27, 2004 @05:03PM (#10091777) Homepage
    So apparantly linux is ready for the laptop, but when will it be ready for the desktop?

  • The Sleeper Must Awaken! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by MerryGoByeBye ( 447358 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @05:04PM (#10091783) Journal
    Actually, this could be the biggest sea-change in years. Major change comes slowly but surely (see: Google) and the significance of a functioning-out-of-the-box Linux laptop install (where problematic wireless issues most often arise) cannot be overstated.

    Much can be said for how far Linux has come, but there's a long way to go, especially where finding and configuring hardware is concerned. (Don't reply with the sycophantic "Have you seen how good kxxxawsum is?"; yes, I have.) This looks like a major step.

  • Ok which one of you /.'ers sabotaged the MSNBC article. You know it really read "H-P's first Linux laptop a LO$ER"...
    Hmmm "H-P" I do not think they were talking about the HP that I am aware of.
    • Considering there nx5000 page dosen't mention Linux, plus the fact I can't find where to change the OS choice away from XP Pro anywhere, and don't forget this juicy little nugget "
      HP recommends Microsoft®
      Windows® XP Professional" I think you maybe right.
  • Bot this fits in as "Less expensive than any other laptop that has seriusly tried to pry my Eye from Dell."

    Suse 9.1 on my Inspiron 8200 is a joy to use. The Modem didn't work properly when I set it up and I havn't goten around to fixing that (No free landline.)

    Everything else is slick. To go the extra step of droping the cost, increasing the RAM and preloading my OSs of choice will make me happy. And I bet the modem on that HP works :)

  • Interesting Pricing (Score:4, Insightful)

    by sublimusasterisk ( 539187 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @05:10PM (#10091837)
    I headed over to HP to price this thing how I'd like it. The select box for the OS allows me to pick the Suse option, but only subtracts $50 USD. After some research, that's actually about right. So, where's the big money savings by going to linux?

  • Pay for DVD software? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 27, 2004 @05:11PM (#10091855)
    I'd like to especially commend Hewlett-Packard for including LinDVD playback software with this machine. It, too, works right out of the box. When I install Linux on my personal laptops I usually have to buy software to watch a movie.

    Is it just me or did this guy's credibility just take a hit? There hasn't been commercial DVD software for Linux for that long and I've certainly never heard of anybody using it over mplayer or xine. I guess he'll be the one linux user (other than all the folks who bought this laptop) who the MPAA won't sue when they get around to stopping us from viewing our own DVDs with our own software.

  • Bah! (Score:2, Informative)

    by deadlysloth ( 633072 )
    They [HP] are charging the same price for the laptop loaded with MS XP (not Pro) and Suse 9.1. I was kinda hoping that it'd actually be cheaper.
  • Go the sit and actually can buy one with SuSE. First thing you see is, "HP recommends Microsoft®
    Windows® XP Professional"

    Then try actually finding the one with SuSE Linux already installed as an option, all I am seeing is no less than 5 options all listing Windows as the default.

    Most likely the Linux option will be under customize...

    StarTux
  • I find this unbelievable that Microsoft (MS) would even ALLOW mention of a Linux-based laptop let alone allow comments as if it was something 'positive'. Since MSNBC is a joint effort between MS and NBC we can probably conclude that NBC won this one ^_^.

    I don't have much faith in the monopoly that is Microsoft "turning over a new leaf" -- stay tuned some backlash....or a missing article (just like when MS had leaked a method would allow Windows XP Home users to have IIS run on their machines which wa

  • MSNBC - Linux? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by acherrington ( 465776 ) <acherringtonNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Friday August 27, 2004 @05:20PM (#10091934)
    Does anyone else see this as extrodinary that MSNBC did not spin a story towards microsoft for the first time. Its a good step for them, perhaps I should start looking at their news coverage again.

    (honestly im not troll hunting here, being serious)

  • I hope families don't buy this stuff (Score:4, Insightful)

    by IronChefMorimoto ( 691038 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @05:21PM (#10091939)
    No offense to the /. crowd and Linux fans, but I really hope families don't get bilked into buying Linux laptops or desktops without knowing what they might be getting into.

    I personally think this ia a great step toward making Linux much more mainstream than it is now, but I fear that unsuspecting and uneducated consumers being led around by unhelpful and undertrained sales staff at Circuit City or on the HP sales line might find themselves with Linux machines they really don't like.

    I could see a family making a computer purchase and visiting some retailers that, perhaps, start selling things like Linux laptops and Linux desktops as a novelty item. They get in the store and are like, "WOW! This PC is so much cheaper than that PC over there." They might even think, in their minds, that bad viruses and things come from Windows, so they're even more enthused about the Linux machine.

    They get it home, and then they realize that they have to jump through hoops to play this game or open this document from work.

    Granted, the process I outlined above has to occur to some degree in order to facilitate adoption of Linux as a mainstream PC operating system (or whatever you might call it). I just hope and pray that vendors like HP and major retailers don't jump on the bandwagon a little too eagerly in trying to sell these machines only to find that they've opened a Pandora's box worse than a MyDoom worm on Windows XP... ...instead... ...a really pissed off family that can't run little Sally's Barbie Dream Makeover software.

    A family that ends up returning the Linux machine altogether rather than having the Windows machine with a virus serviced at Best Buy and put back into the wild.

    My 2 cents.

    IronChefMorimoto
    • They get it home, and then they realize that they have to jump through hoops to play this game or open this document from work.

      It only takes a bit of education. I mean, i rememeber when i switched my mother's PC to Windows 95 from Windows 3.11, she constantly complained because of the new setup ("Icons are out of place!", "What is this taskbar thing?"). People are lazy, and PC users are the laziest of them all - i don't expect users to become software engenieers, but you can't treat you new laptop lik

    • Try reading a few paragraphs of the article first (Score:5, Informative)

      by nacs ( 658138 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @06:02PM (#10092246) Journal
      It'd probably be too much to ask some people to read the product page for the laptop but the least you can do is read the first sentence of the 2nd paragraph:

      Hewlett-Packard is now taking orders for their nx5000
      business notebook computers with Novell's SuSE Linux 9.1 installed.


      HP is intentionally targetting the enterprise market with this laptop and have stated this multiple times in the past.

      Cnet even has a video where an HP representative tells us that HP is targetting enterprises and that they're doing this more as a trial run to work out kinks and see what improvements users request before they put more resources into this segment.

    • Re:I hope families don't buy this stuff (Score:5, Insightful)

      by rusty0101 ( 565565 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @06:06PM (#10092274) Homepage Journal
      Actually, my own hope is that the home market for Linux is recognized as large enough to support game developers writing their games for Linux as a primary distribution route, and advising Windows users to use a bare bones Linux install to run their game under, to provide an online gaming platform that is less likely to be compromised by Windows viruses while playing online.

      Do I see this as being likely to happen? No. But I think it would be a better route.

      -Rusty

  • I *do* take exception: (Score:5, Insightful)

    by H_Fisher ( 808597 ) <h_v_fisher@yah[ ]com ['oo.' in gap]> on Friday August 27, 2004 @05:27PM (#10091969)
    Talk about damning something with faint praise. From TFA:

    But overall, (and here's where staunch Linux fans will take exception) this machine is not as easy to use for most computer users as the same machine running Windows XP or (if it could) Apple's OS X. You still need to know a lot more about the inner workings of a computer to excel on a Linux machine.

    Maybe I'm missing the boat, but I think this is a given. I've never heard a Linux user claim that someone who's only familiar w/ Mac or Windows is going to fully understand (much less fall in love with) Linux the first time they use it. That kind of negativity - however slight and between-the-lines - is just pushing more people away from Linux by reinforcing the "theirs is harder to use than ours" idea.

    You must figure out on your own things like where to store the software and associated programs and how to handle permissions. These are not things most consumers want to do.

    ...and because of this we have x million Windows machines running with little or no protection, instant worm-fodder.

    Linux to me is professional-grade software - the difference between the Huffy bike you'd get when you're 10 and the 18-speed alloy frame bike you buy when you start racing. It won't always be that way; there are thousands of people out there pushing to make Linux more accessible to Mr. & Ms. Average Joe, but right now it's counterproductive to act like your average AOLer should be able to sit down with KDE and instantly feel at home.

  • Tadpole Talin (Score:3, Informative)

    by Jahf ( 21968 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @05:39PM (#10092051) Journal
    There has been a good SuSE (actually in this case Java Desktop System) Linux business laptop that "just works" out for 9 months now. The Tadpole Talin 15" [tadpolecomputer.com]. The also now have the 12 inch screen [tadpolecomputer.com] model available.

    Not as big a brand name as HP ... but then again HP's brandname hasn't been that great for awhile now anyway.

    The Tadpole machines may be more expensive (no way for me to know, I got my Talin 15 as a demo box and their website doesn't say) so I'm not saying you should definitely get this one over the HP box if that is a concern ... just pointing out some other alternatives.

    Things in this respect are definitely improving.

    • Re:Tadpole Talin (Score:3, Informative)

      by Junta ( 36770 )
      Note, Tadpole has been a niche laptop maker for a looong time. I have a Tadpole SPARCbook II lying around (640x480 color screen, slow-ass 32-bit SPARC that was really cool when the laptop was new). They for the early part of their existence made exclusive SPARC architecture laptops running SunOS..

  • how is the keyboard? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by harlows_monkeys ( 106428 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @06:05PM (#10092267) Homepage
    It's from the Compaq side of HP. Playing with Compaq laptops at Best Buy and/or Circuit City, I'm NOT impressed with the keyboards. Is this one better?

    I went to HP's website and configured one, and compared to a similarly configured Powerbook at Apple's site, and the HP comes out a lot cheaper, with a similar weight, and a higher resolution display, so it looks like a good choice for a non-Windows laptop, if the keyboard doesn't suck.

    So far, the only good keyboard I've found is on ThinkPads. (No Apple dealer within 30 miles of where I live, so I haven't been able to check out Powerbook keyboards yet).

  • yeah, try and buy it from their web site (Score:3, Informative)

    by yagu ( 721525 ) * <yayagu@[ ]il.com ['gma' in gap]> on Friday August 27, 2004 @06:56PM (#10092653) Journal

    This MAY be great news, but it feels more like a publicity stunt... I'm willing and ready to purchase one and not go through all the hoops of converting a windows box.... Just try and go to the HP site and in a straightforward way navigate to the laptop with linux. What a pain! And, at least in my case, when you finally find the model, and click through to "customize", you'll NOT find linux listed there as an option for OS anymore. Go figure.

    Of course, ymmv.... I'm sure someone will try and find linux and claim it is there and easy to find. But, I navigated, and drilled down about four or five different ways, and never really ended up with an option I was looking for. (This is about two or three times more than I normally afford a web site when looking for something -- before moving on to some easier to use business selling the same item.)

    Additional disclaimer: it may not be only "hiding" linux -- I've shopped the HP web site before and had similar frustrating experience just trying to find a normal laptop or desktop with the configuration I wanted. But, finding the linux configuration was well nigh impossible.

  • Interesting (Score:3, Informative)

    by theantix ( 466036 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @07:24PM (#10092859) Journal
    The main complaint the article highlighted was with changing between network connections, something that both Novell and Red Hat have been working on recently. If you follow Planet Gnome at at, you'd see that both companies have just released glimpses of their upcoming programs which address this very real annoyance with Linux on laptops.

    The other complaint they had was with installing new applications, which shouldn't be a big deal with Red Carpet or Yum (especially if Red Hat/Fedora ever ships with a nice GUI front-end to that). Desktop Linux is rolling along rather nicely, good to see.

  • HP compax NX5000 and wireless (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 27, 2004 @08:17PM (#10093206)
    For the record, Linux doesn't support Intel's wireless chip. H-P's WiFi modules work just fine.

    Let's just hope nobody tells my wlan nic, otherwise I'll have to resort to fast ethernet.

    I am currently at the kde conference [kde.org] in Ludwigsburg, Germany and working on one of these NX5000 notebooks. Hewlett-Packard was nice enough to sell them for about 580 EUR, which is about 700 USD, to kde developers.
    However, our laptop models included the intel wireless 2200BG card, otherwise known as the dreaded centrino card. But what surprise, the driver from SourceForge [sf.net] works. Sometimes a bit flakey though, but it works...

    Otherwise I am quite happy with the NX5000. The thing looks quite stable, has mostly supported hardware and sports a pair of superb speakers.

    All in all, quite a nifty device for a very reasonable price.

  • HP+SuSE != Apple+BSD (Score:3, Interesting)

    by kbahey ( 102895 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @11:57PM (#10094230) Homepage

    The comparison is flawed.

    Apple does not provide "just" BSD. They have heavily customized (in fact forked) BSD and build that wonderful GUI, installation, configuration, ...etc. on top of it. Third party ISVs know that they have to deal with only a finite set of variables on the OS. Mac OS X is not available on any other hardware architecture than what Apple makes. They have a limited set of supported peripherals, ...etc. This gives the users much fewer surprises from incompatibilities and such.

    On the other hand, HP just makes the hardware. There are endless aftermarket peripherals available for it (granted much less than a desktop). They do not have their own fork of SuSE, nor any special GUI on top of it. Hence, one can get SuSE from anywhere, and run it on any hardware, and it would not be much different from HP's offering (apart from being pre-installed, usable by the masses, and perhaps certain features configured specifically for their hardware).

    Apple is playing at a different level than HP.

    Don't get me wrong: I love Linux and has been runnig it myself for years. But this comparison is Apples to HPs.

  • Sometimes MSNBC impresses me. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by stealth.c ( 724419 ) on Saturday August 28, 2004 @01:05AM (#10094508)
    You would think that they would be a Microsoft shill given the fact that it's *MS*NBC, but most of the time I hear the exact opposite kind of talk out of them. They seem to be frank about MS product flaws, and willing to praise praiseworthy competitors.

    Do they just happen to NOT have their heads up their asses, or is there a more cynical explanation?

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