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Senator Pushes For Tougher H-1B Enforcement 262

Posted by samzenpus
from the no-room-for-you dept.
mk1004 writes "Computerworld says that the industry lobbying group TechNet is calling on Congress to eliminate the per-country cap on H-1B workers. Last year a bill was passed in the house, 389-to-15, to remove the cap. Grassley put a hold on the bill in the Senate, indicating that he would be willing to lift the cap if companies faced an annual audit. The US currently allows 140K H-1B workers, but allows only 7% of those to come from any one country."
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Senator Pushes For Tougher H-1B Enforcement

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  • I'm for it. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by PerlPunk (548551) on Thursday June 28, 2012 @02:13AM (#40476073) Homepage Journal
    It would be a big incentive to attraact the best of the best from around the world to the United States. It would go hand-in-hand with smart immigration policies that tried to retain that talent.
    • Re:I'm for it. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 28, 2012 @02:20AM (#40476117)

      It's wonderful until the job market is flooded with 140k h1b workers working for absurdly low wages, soaking up the few jobs there are in your particular field, sending the bulk of what they do earn home instead of spending it here.

      I'm sure corporate america loves the idea though. Can't get the price of capable labor down low enough? Bring in people that will live 6 to an apartment and work cheaper than anyone with those old, outdated ideas of a family, home and a lawn to mow!

      • Re:I'm for it. (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 28, 2012 @02:28AM (#40476145)

        It's wonderful until the job market is flooded with 140k h1b workers working for absurdly low wages

        And who are these H1B workers on absurdly low wages? It costs Microsoft 30% more to hire foreigners on H1Bs because there aren't enough Americans graduating with master's and PhDs in STEM fields. MSFT would gladly hire Americans to do these jobs, if they could. I'm quite confident this generalizes to other tech companies.

        • Re:I'm for it. (Score:5, Insightful)

          by sjames (1099) on Thursday June 28, 2012 @03:02AM (#40476295) Homepage

          They can, there are plenty of people with the qualifications they need. It's just that they would just have to pay more or offer better working conditions. The prospect of jobs that pay well and offer good working conditions would also cause more people to get their degree in a STEM field. The current push down on wages and into H1-B and outsourcing is why less students are choosing that career.

          So, MS has to spend 30% more to hire an H1B than they would if there was a glut in the employee market? So how much less do they cost compared to the actual market rate under the actual conditions of supply?

        • Re:I'm for it. (Score:5, Insightful)

          by artor3 (1344997) on Thursday June 28, 2012 @03:08AM (#40476319)

          And who are these H1B workers on absurdly low wages? It costs Microsoft 30% more to hire foreigners on H1Bs because there aren't enough Americans graduating with master's and PhDs in STEM fields. MSFT would gladly hire Americans to do these jobs, if they could.

          According to who, Microsoft? Gee, I can't think of any reason they might want to lie about this.

          H1B workers are easily abused because changing jobs is far more difficult. The upfront costs of hiring them may be higher, but they end up working longer hours for less pay. That is why Microsoft, along with all the other tech giants, go before Congress every year and lie and beg.

          • by Beetle B. (516615)

            According to who, Microsoft? Gee, I can't think of any reason they might want to lie about this.

            That argument applies equally well to all those who whine about low pay and not being able to get a job.

        • by DarkOx (621550)

          I can see the argument for smaller businesses needed h1b workers. Perhaps there should be cap like if you already have X number of employees you are not eligible to hire non citizens. Work in domestic facilities.

          There is no reason a big firm like Microsoft can't select the best of their own internal talent and develop it. Either by sending them down a traditional accredited academic track or some other means to get them the knowledge they need. A company like Microsoft absolutely could afford to send the

          • by sycodon (149926)

            Another reason is that to a large degree, PhD programs are clubs. You not only have to meet the academic requirements, but you also have to do the whole political thing, which pretty much starts when you are an undergrad. If you piss off a professor anywhere along the way, then you are toast and have to work ten times as hard to get accepted into a program somewhere.

        • It's wonderful until the job market is flooded with 140k h1b workers working for absurdly low wages

          And who are these H1B workers on absurdly low wages? It costs Microsoft 30% more to hire foreigners on H1Bs because there aren't enough Americans graduating with master's and PhDs in STEM fields. MSFT would gladly hire Americans to do these jobs, if they could. I'm quite confident this generalizes to other tech companies.

          References for your assertions? Demonstrate that there weren't enough Americans that could do the jobs in question, don't just make a statement without anything to back it up.

        • Re:I'm for it. (Score:5, Insightful)

          by hairyfeet (841228) <bassbeast1968@@@gmail...com> on Thursday June 28, 2012 @06:56AM (#40477115) Journal

          I take it you've not watched How NOT to hire an American [youtube.com] then? Fraud is RAMPANT in the H1-B program, with BS qualifications like 5 years of Win 8 experience or 15 years of .NET being all too common. Then once they get the "qualified" H1-B they are paid below the market going rate for the ACTUAL job.

          But in the end everyone here should be against the H1-B because not only are we looking at nearly a trillion in student loans, with defaults jumping to 12% in the past couple of years, but the simple fact it completely destroys supply and demand and makes sure there will NEVER be an American for those jobs. After all, what idiot is gonna go $50k-$75k in debt for a job they know they'll have to compete for with a guy that paid less than 15K for theirs?

          In the end the vast majority of their wages will go overseas, never to return, and the H1-Bs themselves will go overseas with the education and work experience. if you look at the real numbers we are looking at something like 23% unemployment, what are we gonna do with all those people? Do you know how many are going straight from their college graduation to the unemployment lines? When you are in a recession and there aren't enough jobs to go around as it is the LAST thing you want is corps poisoning the system by distorting supply and demand and driving yet more money overseas.

          Personally, I don't know about everyone else here, but i'm sick to damned death of the "just give the corps what they want and things will get better" horseshit. We have been doing that for over 20 years now, are things better? We have practically gutted regulation, the ACTUAL amount of taxes the fortune 500 pay thanks to loopholes has never been lower, with many corps like GE actually getting money out instead of putting any in, are things better? maybe for the 5% at the top but for everyone else it sure as hell ain't. When unemployment is below 4% then and ONLY then should we be talking about importing workers, not when we have many of our young people buried in student loans and working at the Pizza Hut.

          • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

            by DigiShaman (671371)

            Don't worry. Universal Healthcare in America just passed. All of it - as a tax (not commerce clause). So with the precedent set, welcome to a new soon-to-be crafted universal tuition!!! It will happen. Mark my words. It will pass, and you as the tax payer will end up being soaked to pay off this 1 trillion dollar debt in student loans.

          • After all, what idiot is gonna go $50k-$75k in debt for a job they know they'll have to compete for with a guy that paid less than 15K for theirs?

            Maybe you should consider this as a sign that American high education is overpriced?

            And, you know, it's not just Indians who can study in American universities. Americans can also study in foreign universities, and there are plenty places where it's cheaper. In fact, there are plenty places in US itself which are cheaper than $50k. If a guy with an Indian degree can get hired, do you really need the most expensive education you can get in US?

        • That's horseshit. The H1Bs that I see come in are almost always temps. Sure they cost 30% more PER HOUR. If you care to do the accounting like that. But the cost of a real worker, one that requires health insurance, vacation, raises and A DESK far dwarfs what they pay these H1Bs that come in. They hire them because they are disposable. When they decide to lay them all off, no one will complain.

          I'm all for easier immigration. But we should give these people easy paths to citizenship so they can join the mark
        • by cyfer2000 (548592)
          Tata Consultancy Services [wikipedia.org], Larsen Toubro Infotech [wikipedia.org], Cognizant Technology Solutions [wikipedia.org], UST Global [wikipedia.org], Patni Americas [wikipedia.org]... Check this list out [myvisajobs.com].
        • master's and PhDs should not be needed for the job.

        • by moeinvt (851793)

          "there aren't enough Americans graduating with master's and PhDs in STEM fields"

          BULL - SHIT

          Publish an advertisement for whatever STEM grad that you want. $200,000 per year plus great benefits, incentive bonuses and stock options. Are you trying to suggest that ZERO American citizens with the right qualifications would apply for this job?

          "MSFT would gladly hire Americans to do these jobs,"

          Yeah, they would be glad to hire Americans. i.e. Americans that are willing to work at the same shit wages they pay fo

          • You haven't been to any STEM graduate school lately much, have you? There are about 25% max of "long-term citizen" and a whole lot of Asians (mainly Chinese and Indian, not surprising as they make up 40% of the world's population). The real change lately is that there now are more citizens than you saw in the 80' and 90' due to the fact that the fist generation immigrant PhDs now have their children in grad school. And the reason for that is that your typical STEM American gets the 100k offer as a BS bec
        • by Anonymous Coward

          Gates himself (check the audio archive for his speeches) said he'd rather hire
          foreigners than U.S. citizens
          . And no, U.S. corporations are provided fininacial
          incentives to hire Hr1B workers - in addition, assuming they stay in the U.S less
          than (don't remember the # of days), they do NOT pay Federal income tax. So,
          it does NOT cost MS 30% more to hire non-U.S. citizens; that's complete nonsense.

          CAPTCHA = charcoal (why yes, I'm feeling a little burnt)

          • This is a false statement.

            H1Bs pay Federal Income Tax regardless of the duration of their stay. What you might be interested in knowing:
            - if you work 1 week / year in the US, you're unlikely to reach the minimum annual income to be taxed, regardless of whether you're citizen, H1B or GC
            - under F1 w/ EAD (note, not H1B) you do not pay specific taxes (IIRC, Social Security and FICA) but you do pay Federal (and State) Income Tax

            signed,
            former F1, former H1B, proud "stealer" of American jobs

        • by sycodon (149926)

          You say that as if having a Masters or PhD in real life counts for shit when it comes to getting the job done.

          I think that in many cases, the call for these credentials is not only overkill, but possibly even detrimental. After all, when you are a PhD, your mind is polluted with all the knowledge of things that WON'T work and which you subsequently never even attempt.

        • The perhaps, the good answer should be that MS should team up with several Universities to fund many, many scholarships for people in the fields they need. You know.. actually encourage people to go into them.

        • by Shavano (2541114)
          The unemployment rate for SW engineers is still over 4%. There are people available. And if MS wants more graduates in SWEng it can afford to fund scholarships and train its own.
        • by Ryanrule (1657199)

          Requiring them to match salaries with the market doesnt work up when they make up a new title for every job.

      • Re:I'm for it. (Score:5, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 28, 2012 @02:49AM (#40476233)

        Not sure where you've worked, but I've yet to find any H1Bs in tech living anything like you're describing. Okay, so during his (and my) first year at my old job, my H1B co-worker and I rented a four bedroom apartment together. So that's kind of close, although he later married and bought a house. It only has a small lawn, so he mostly has to stick to around the deck or BBQ and sadly look over Puget Sound, thinking of how unfortunate he is.
         
        The other H1Bs included the guy with the brand new 3-series living in a fancy glass and steel downtown condo, and the guy with the Range Rover who had restrained but expensive tastes. The other H1B in my group was rather stoic so perhaps he lived with 5 other H1Bs in an apartment, although it'd be weird since his salary was well into six figures and a decent studio in the most expensive parts of the city were ~$1000/month with parking.
         
        Yes, H1Bs can be paid on the low end of the scale since they're at a major disadvantage if they're unhappy with their job. But it's not a huge difference, it's just that corporations would be happy to sell out their own country for a penny. In fact, because I went front-end and my ex-roommate went server-side, he was making more than me within 3-4 years on the job.
         
        That said, there is very little need for H1Bs in terms of supply and demand as was pointed out in this recently posted transcript [ieee.org], and it'd be nice if lawmakers and other people involved in immigration policy recognized this fact.

      • Re:I'm for it. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by guacamole (24270) on Thursday June 28, 2012 @05:30AM (#40476775)

        I am sorry man, but you have no idea about the reality of H1B workers. Most I have known are fairly smart people and they were already relatively well to-do by the standards of their country. They would certainly NOT come here to live 6 an apartment. Also, a lot of the successful ones eventually convert their H1B visa status to a more permanent visa to stay here. Now, it's possible that some of them send money back home. So what? Would you instead prefer to see entire corporate offices with ALL jobs moved to India, Taiwan, China, or Russia? This is not that hard at all, you know.

        To put this a little blunt, this is a global competitive economy, and if you can't adapt then you should improve, change your career, or just perish. Sorry. No other way around this.

        • by drinkypoo (153816)

          Would you instead prefer to see entire corporate offices with ALL jobs moved to India, Taiwan, China, or Russia? This is not that hard at all, you know.

          Yes, yes it is hard, and moreover, it will cost you customers.

          • by aaarrrgggh (9205)

            Ok, so the marketing and finance executive positions stay, but everybody else goes. The corporate headquarters is moved to a tax haven. Other corporations and consumers alike are suckers for lower prices, and they reward the behavior without looking at the total cost.

        • Re:I'm for it. (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Lehk228 (705449) on Thursday June 28, 2012 @09:18AM (#40478225) Journal
          Se we should let the corporations fuck us out of fear that they will fuck us harder?

          We need to deglobalize the economy as the people do not see any of the advantages, IP laws allow companies to sell for low prices overseas but restrict imports

          Build import tariffs in such a way as to severely penalize production in places where environmental and or worker safety laws are lax, make importing profits from overseas holdings difficult as well if those overseas holdings do business, directly or indirectly, in the US.
        • by Shompol (1690084)

          I am sorry man, but you have no idea about the reality of H1B workers. Most I have known are fairly smart people and they were already relatively well to-do by the standards of their country.

          Please explain why 90% of taxi drivers in NYC became Indian in a span of only a couple of years? I think you are the one who does not know the reality. All levels are being replaced with H1B -- from drivers to PhD's! If they import enough workers the economy will drive our wages down to be comparable to that of China and India. Is that the globalization that you speak about? Somehow we did much better before it started.

      • by Cyberax (705495)
        Actually, the current average salary for H1B workers in IT in NYC area is around $80k which is pretty decent. I'm a foreigner and I'm thinking about moving to the US (I'm a co-owner of a small US software company). I've attended several job interviews in the US just for fun and I was offered more than $120k for a position in Maryland, so not all H1B jobs are low-paying.

        However, H1B system is literally swamped by hordes of Indian developers, many of them with very low qualification. We've tried to hire H1
      • It's not necessarily about low salary. Foreign workers, especially those form Asia, are far more obedient. Some might even be sycophants. Do-nothing managers love them.
    • Re:I'm for it. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 28, 2012 @02:53AM (#40476255)

      smart immigration policies

      The h-1b isn't a smart immigration policy. It's a tool to drive down US worker wages by making immigrants your bitch.

      This isn't a "they tewk er jerbs" thing, either. Some of the crap the h-1bs go through... the immigrants deserve better, too.

      • Re:I'm for it. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by couchslug (175151) on Thursday June 28, 2012 @11:24AM (#40479595)

        Then facilitate LEGAL immigration and capture the talent. Americans don't want to work and disdain many jobs because they think they are too precious to compete.

        Import and retain skilled workers, denying them to other countries. Business is war and "defectors" are useful. "Brain drain" the competition and welcome new Americans.

    • Re:I'm for it. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Thanshin (1188877) on Thursday June 28, 2012 @03:01AM (#40476287)

      It would be a big incentive to attraact the best of the best from around the world to the United States. It would go hand-in-hand with smart immigration policies that tried to retain that talent.

      The problem is that a fraction of what the immigrant earns is sent out of the country. Thus only part of the benefit to the corporation stays.

      Deeper still, the problem is that the corporation's interests aren't aligned with the country, nor has it any pressure to make them so.

      Deeper still, the problem is that the corporation is just a product of the economical system. Society cannot specify how to create businesses following a certain set of rules and then claim that the resulting corporation is bad.

      A solution would be to have the state control the corporate behaviours that harm the country, however that doesn't work because the state is not the country, just a subset of individuals who are vulnerable to corporation power, which was given by the rules decided by society.

      A solution to that would be society removing that power from the corporation, but the corporation was made following rules that society itself imposed, so its the rules that would have to be changed first.

      And we don't know what other set of rules works better than the current one, nor whether the new corporate-like entity crerated by them would have even stronger power over the state.

    • Most H1-Bs I know of work for standard wages, or close to.

      Even if they work for less, how is this worse than fresh American college grads working for peanuts in the Valley for a chance at the startup lottery?

    • It doesn't invite the best of the best. It invites people who will do the same jobs as Americans but for much less money, thus increasing corporate profits while helping to ensure the continuation of high American unemployment.

    • by Shavano (2541114)
      The H1-B visa system is bad top to bottom. It makes indentured servants of the workers and it makes companies defraud the government by claiming unique or hard to find skills are needed when they're not.
    • by hey! (33014)

      What immigration policies that try to retain that talent? H-1B is a *technology transfer* program which makes it easier for companies to move jobs overseas.

      If you wanted to retain that talent, you wouldn't bring them in on H-1B. You'd issue them a green card.

  • by polyp2000 (444682) on Thursday June 28, 2012 @02:22AM (#40476121) Homepage Journal

    Would this mean it would be much easier for me (from the UK) to leave this screwed up country and move to the states?

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by 91degrees (207121)
      If you're going to leave screwed up UK, why would you pick the US of all places!?
    • You're off your trolley, mate. You want to leave the Little USA to go to the Big USA? Our government is so far up America's ass they both pick the same nose.

      Still, I suppose we don't assassinate our own citizens on foreign soil... Yet.
  • Article is wrong (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 28, 2012 @02:37AM (#40476179)

    There is no per country cap on H1Bs. As usual, Computer world is trying to rile up anti immigrant/anti H1B sentiment.

    There is a per country cap on Green Cards. This means that to get a green card, there are separate queues based on the country you were born in. Because of this cap, an engineer from India or China, if he applies in the advanced/special skills category that needs a Masters degree in engineering or science has to wait in the same job for more than 6 years to get a green card, while the guy from Iceland gets one in six months.

    • by toejam13 (958243)

      I don't see a problem with this. Having a diverse immigrant workforce is a good thing. No single country should dominate our immigration system.

    • Re:Article is wrong (Score:5, Interesting)

      by hooeezit (665120) on Thursday June 28, 2012 @03:08AM (#40476317)
      As parent says, the article is utterly wrong. There are no per-country caps on H1B. The caps are on Green Cards (permanent residence) issued under certain categories, EB2 (Employment Based 2nd) being the most affected. The problem is that all countries, irrespective of their population, get a fixed ceiling of 7% of the total allocation of 140000 GCs issued per year. So, H1B workers from China and India have to wait at least 5 years, sometimes 10 years depending on the whims of USCIS, to get their Green Card. During that time, they have to continue being employed by the same company that originally filed the GC application, and in a materially similar position as at the time of filing. A major change in job description requires refiling. If you don't realize what that means, it makes those workers subservient to their employers. This has quite the opposite effect that you think it does - it doesn't help US workers any since these foreigners are already employed, but it gives the employers a position of power from which they can dictate terms on pay raises and promotions since they have the workers by the leash.

      This is definitely hurting US tech companies because many excellent techies getting good salaries are leaving the US and setting up their own companies either in their home countries or in some other immigration-friendly country, Canada and Singapore being the top destinations. They would rather spend 2 years setting up their own company and getting permanent residence and a path to citizenship there than toil for 6+ years in fear with no certain timeline on when they'll become a permanent resident, much less a citizen of the US.

      I myself am an example of a person who left the US after being there for 11 years. I was on H1B and making $120k/yr, so definitely not an underpaid worker. But I'm loathe to serve 6 years in a big corporation doing the same job day in and day out. So, I moved back to India, and I'm using my contacts in the industry to provide embedded software and hardware development services to small companies in the US. At the same time, I'm providing Industrial Automation consulting services to Indian companies and am currently working on a new data logging product for the South African market. So, the US lost the tax revenue it would have received. It lost a bunch of local jobs due to US companies outsourcing work to me in India. And it lost the new jobs I'd have created there if I'd continued building new products in the US.

      So, you decide what works in US's national interests? Keeping people like me away from that country, or giving us an incentive to set up companies of our own? And if you claim that I'm a minority, that's an irrelevant argument. A very useful minority is still being alienated. I loved being in the US, and would happily go back if the immigration situation becomes easier and more deterministic. But I seriously don't see current US politics being conducive to ANYTHING that's of real value to the country.

      • Re:Article is wrong (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 28, 2012 @04:05AM (#40476491)

        ...than toil for 6+ years in fear with no certain timeline on when they'll become a permanent resident, much less a citizen of the US.

        I'm an American (born and raised) scientist currently living and working in Asia and, after the way my non-American wife and her family have been treated by USCIS, I'm not at all eager to go back to the USA, either.

        In my wife's case, we spent years waiting for all the various paperwork to clear - during which times my wife wasn't allowed to work, or go to school or even leave the USA. And it's totally arbitrary: even now that my wife has permanent residence (a "green card") USCIS could take it away for no reason and, at best, we'd have to start all over again.

        And then her sister, who had a five year multiple entry visa, essentially applied for a renewal to do some traveling with us - and was denied - again totally arbitrary and with no due process or rule of law or possibility to appeal.

        But I seriously don't see current US politics being conducive to ANYTHING that's of real value to the country.

        Yeah, I voted for Obama hoping things might improve - but from what I've seen they've actually gotten worse. I sure won't be voting Democratic this year.

        Well, anyway, I can always hope that some other country will invade and occupy the USA and straighten it out. :)

        • by aaarrrgggh (9205)

          Spouse green cards are really a pain, likely because of the level of abuse historically. The probationary green card is really only the first two years though. When my wife came over she got an education visa, then we had a lot of fun when we tried to do a border run to get a tourist visa after that expired. After that, it was a fiancé visa which was a whole other nightmare. It took three years to get a proper SSN.

          Which is what pisses me off in the whole discussion of illegal labor. What the hell

      • by Kergan (780543)

        This is definitely hurting US tech companies because many excellent techies getting good salaries are leaving the US and setting up their own companies either in their home countries or in some other immigration-friendly (...).

        So, you decide what works in US's national interests? Keeping people like me away from that country, or giving us an incentive to set up companies of our own? And if you claim that I'm a minority, that's an irrelevant argument. A very useful minority is still being alienated.

        So true... I was advised in no uncertain terms that I was playing on a level field with Mexican goat herders. The US is losing entrepreneurs and scientists, one unimpressed candidate immigrant at the time.

    • by dcblogs (1096431)
      The story is correct, but the Slashdot blurb confused the two. The Senate is considering a bill approved by the House to eliminate the per country caps on green cards. Sen. Grassley put a hold on that bill, but is attempting to work out a compromise. He will allow removal of the green cap limit in exchange for giving the Labor Dept. more power to conduct audits on H-1B use.
  • by Maxo-Texas (864189) on Thursday June 28, 2012 @03:28AM (#40476381)

    Did so much good at the banks and financial institutes.

  • by ad454 (325846) on Thursday June 28, 2012 @04:09AM (#40476499)

    The simplest solution is to raise the minimum salary for all H1B employees to something more reasonable, like between $100,000 to $150,000, depending on the area and profession. (Note this is a minimum, the maximum is open.)

    That way companies would be forced to pay the extra amount for foreign workers if they really are needed, and be incentivize to first look for local talent and/or provide training.

    And H1B's recipients would stop being considered as cheap low-cost labour putting downwards pressure on salaries.

    • The simplest solution is to raise the minimum salary for all H1B employees to something more reasonable, like between $100,000 to $150,000

      I see a flaw...
      A gallon of milk will just cost $40, and that $20k minimum wage slave will make $200k.
      ...absolute values don't account for inflation well.

    • by imbusy (1002705)
      Isn't that how it already works? The employer has to offer a salary that is above average of what the standard is. Foreign workers on H1-B visas ARE more expensive. But maybe they are willing to work in a lower position than they normally should so all in all they cost less. BTW, I'm someone who missed this year's H1-B quota by a few days myself.
      • by swb (14022)

        But don't employers routinely game this system by creating jobs for which there is no reasonable salary average in the real world, or using job descriptions with low(er) salary descriptions and then putting the H1-Bs to work for real jobs with higher salary averages?

        To me this entire "salary average" system seems easily abused to get what employers want, desperate serfs willing to work for any wage.

  • by catmistake (814204) on Thursday June 28, 2012 @06:42AM (#40477049) Journal
    Why should workers with flu-like symptoms have any such legislation? I don't care what country they come from, if they're sick they should stay home and get better, otherwise pandemic is inevitable.
  • For those who also didn't know, it's [wikipedia.org]:

    The H-1B is a non-immigrant visa in the United States under the Immigration and Nationality Act, section 101(a)(15)(H). It allows US employers to temporarily employ foreign workers in specialty occupations. If a foreign worker in H-1B status quits or is dismissed from the sponsoring employer, the worker must either apply for and be granted a change of status to another non-immigrant status, find another employer (subject to application for adjustment of status and/or change of visa), or leave the US.

    • But in practice it is treated as a dual purpose visa. The significance is that such a visa holder can have the intention to immigrate. For other non-immigrant visa holders such an intention could cause deny of visa at request, such as F1.
  • Companies should face an audit. How about the federal government itself? It's not supposed to hire non-citizens, so it hires "consulting firms" which import programmers on H1-B visas for the sole of purpose of cutting down the salaries they can pay them. This isn't hearsay, by the way. I had a recruiters admit this to me in plain text (no hints... just plain text). He told me that he'd rather import foreign programmers at subsistence wages than hire Americans at twice the pay. All he has to do is deal
    • Passing laws, or guidelines, whatever the name, that are not always enforced gives politicians the power to decide when, where, and to whom, to enforce the law. Albert Einstein once commented on this and called it a great injustice.
  • The H1B program should be eliminated. Only corporations love it because it allows them to import slave third world labor. Look, this is outrageous when we are importing these people when we have so many Americans in IT who cannot find work. It is infuriating that while so many Americans cannot find work we are importing workers. Furthermore, there are plenty more americans can be quickly trained to do the kinds of IT jobs that corporations need, I think we need to have more apprentiships and on the job trai

    • I am opposed to all immigration as it tends to harm both the source and destination countries.

      If you were born and raised in the USA I'd be very curious to know why you think like that.

  • by zerofoo (262795) on Thursday June 28, 2012 @08:26AM (#40477699)

    Many here are defending the program as a "global competitive market" for jobs, and that we should be able to import workers no matter the economic conditions.

    If other countries were so welcoming of our unemployed, I would agree with the sentiment.

    Would China be as welcoming to the scores of our unemployed in the manufacturing sector? Would China even allow them into the country? I suspect not.

    If our unemployment levels are high, we should not import workers for ANY reason. Market forces can fix this problem easily. A labor shortage drives up labor cost, that encourages more people into the field.

    The companies I have worked for used H-1B workers to increase the available labor pool - that increased supply pushed down wages - basic economic stuff.

    -ted

  • 1 begin taxing all non-citizens say 25% on funds sent to other countries (to be collected by The Transfer Agent)
    2 charge companies an extra 15% on labor taxes for non-citizens
    3 on a related issue have random audits of companies to force them to have papers on all employees (immigration shows up at the work site and starts matching faces to paperwork)

    In short we need to have an EMPLOY LOCAL movement.

    i would at the same time offer some flexibility on wages if it can be proven that the non cash benefits proper

  • 389-to-15 in the House of "Representatives"?

    This is, in no way, "representative" government.

The IQ of the group is the lowest IQ of a member of the group divided by the number of people in the group.

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