Man Charged in Model Airplane Plot To Bomb Pentagon 515
garymortimer writes "A 26-year-old Massachusetts man with a physics degree was arrested and charged Wednesday with plotting an attack on the Pentagon and the U.S. Capitol with remote-controlled model aircraft, authorities said. Rezwan Ferdaus, a U.S. citizen from Ashland, Massachusetts, planned to use model aircraft filled with C-4 plastic explosives. As a result of an undercover FBI investigation, Ferdaus, who has a physics degree from Northeastern University in Boston, was charged with attempting to provide material support and resources to al Qaeda for attacks on U.S. soldiers overseas. His federal public defender couldn't be reached immediately for comment."
*sigh* Not Again... (Score:5, Insightful)
I have to wonder the nature of the situation when the charges are for, "attempting to provide material support", as in, was he in contact with anyone who was actually planning to bomb anything, or was everyone he interacted with affiliated with law enforcement, and they took a disgruntled man and groomed him into the position they're not charging him for.
We'll probably never really know, which is why I really dislike conspiracy type charges when there aren't several people charged.
Did anyone tell him (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Christ, how stupid are we? (Score:2, Insightful)
Hmm . . . Christians have bombed federal buildings and abortion clinics in the U.S., and buildings in Norway.
By your logic, physics degrees should not be given to Christians because they might build nuclear bombs and drop them on people.
Re:Christ, how stupid are we? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Yeah right... (Score:2, Insightful)
Nice conspiracy theory but.... ....."
Would you ever be fooled by this setup? "Yo dude, go buy a model airplane and I'll give you some C4 and
Please. Reality here.
First the article said the FBI worked with an informant. The idiot probably asked a buddy how to get some C4.
The guy wanted to do something and apparently the FBI just helped him along. I'm sure they have every meeting taped. According to the article they at least tried half-heatedly to make sure this idiot was serious. I'm sure that's on tape to.
Was he setup? Yep, the moment his intentions were clear, the FBI set him up.
BTW, its only entrapment if he can say "But for the actions of the FBI, he would never have done the crime."
The saying about online computer games "Don't be a dick", that goes for real life to. This idiot sounds like a real dick.
So now we're down to catching the nutcases (Score:5, Insightful)
A real, full-size airliner barely put a dent in the Pentagon. A remote controlled plane the size of a Cessna full of C4 would break a few windows.
This guy was a physics major and can't calculate how much C4 it would take to punch a hole in a solid concrete building?
Re:Christ, how stupid are we? (Score:1, Insightful)
I predict (Score:5, Insightful)
It's too bad that a fun hobby like RC aircraft was co-opted by the military for use in target drones and later surveillance aircraft and now weapons platforms. Of course one understands the reasons - they are cheap, well no now they are $100 million each but they used to be cheap, they are quiet, and you don't need to put a pilot in danger or have the whole logistical set up of a full airbase to support one. At some point the airbase itself becomes a target that needs to be defended. A drone can be launched or recovered from almost anywhere - depending on the drone.
It was an idea that made sense. But ideas grow, just like the concept of lighting gunpowder behind a ball of lead inside a tube. The basic properties of drones remain - almost anyone can fly one. They are cheap. They are quiet. And you can't put a hellfire missile on one but you certainly could put a couple pounds of explosives, and fly it absolutely anywhere. And I mean anywhere. If the military can do it, so can you. Because of this innate problem, my prediction is that RC aircraft - owning one, manufacturing one, or flying one, is about to be grabbed by the government and handed to the military. Just like today guns are under strict control, RC aircraft will soon be under strict control. And that's sad because the vast, vast majority of RC aircraft are flown by hobbyists for fun.
Re:Christ, how stupid are we? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm more inclined to think equal opportunities and education for all, regardless of their beliefs, is a very positive step forward.
Catching nutcases was always the goal (Score:4, Insightful)
All terrorists are nutcases. No sane person decides that cold-blooded mass murder (often of people only tangentially related to the source of their anger) is the best way to accomplish their goals.
Given my druthers, I'd prefer smart terrorists. Guys like this making RC plane bombs, or that guy who tried to make a dirty bomb to set off at Obama's inauguration. They tend to be easier to catch, because they outsmart themselves. Someone less "clever" might just buy a gun and shoot some people -- see Scott Roeder, Byron Williams, Nidal Hassan, and Jared Loughner.
All different motives (anti-abortion, Glenn Beck told me to, anti-military, straight-up crazy), and all of them not-all-there. Three of the four successful, and the fourth (Williams) only failed because society was lucky enough for him to get a traffic ticket on the way to the shooting. I'll take a dent in the Pentagon's walls any day of the week.
Re:So now we're down to catching the nutcases (Score:4, Insightful)
That was his plan? He might have as well tried to set up an ambush outside the White House, or Congress. This plan is so badly thought out, so badly implemented and relied so heavily on the FBI providing him with bad materials that they might as well charge him with being terminally stupid. This plan wasn't going to go anywhere, and wasn't going to do any damage. If he would have been lucky, he might have been able to shoot one or two guards on the way to "the door".
Re:So now we're down to catching the nutcases (Score:2, Insightful)
This may come as a shock, but there is not exactly a lack of well-trained, well-armed individuals at the Pentagon. Six idiots with guns walking up to the place is not an excellent plan.
Re:Catching nutcases was always the goal (Score:1, Insightful)
No sane person decides that cold-blooded mass murder (often of people only tangentially related to the source of their anger) is the best way to accomplish their goals.
*cough*Hiroshima*cough*
Re:Rezwan Ferdaus is a moslem (Score:1, Insightful)
Same as from any God fearing, church going Christian, I guess, Stupidity!
Re:Christ, how stupid are we? (Score:3, Insightful)
You can also grow a brain and realize that the vast majority of these nut jobs are mad because we just won't leave them the fuck alone, and are constantly getting involved in their countries' business in the mideast because of our addiction to oil. If we didn't have troops and military bases over there, we wouldn't have them trying to blow us up all the time. Maybe if we minded our own fucking business instead of trying to be an evil empire, we wouldn't have so many enemies.
How many suicide bombers have attacked Switzerland?
Re:So now we're down to catching the nutcases (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, IIRC, the Pentagon is more than just "solid concrete", and has a lot of extra reinforcements and materials in its walls to withstand bomb blasts better than normal buildings.
An R/C plane (or even a Cessna) full of C4 wouldn't have done much besides break a few windows, as you say.
I'm going to go ahead and give the terrorists the secret here about how to destroy the US. I hope I don't get prosecuted for terrorism or treason or whatever. It's pretty simple, really: just pour a lot of money into the campaigns for far right-wing Republican candidates like Bachmann, and maybe find other ways to con the voters into electing these wackos, not just in the Presidential race but in Congressional races too. After they get elected, just sit back and watch the country implode. You can also do the same by getting more Democrats elected, but it won't be quite as fast as with the Republicans (this is probably debatable though). Of course, there's lots of corporations already pouring money into these peoples' campaigns, so maybe they should be prosecuted for terrorism... Or, you can just do nothing at all and wait; we don't need terrorists to destroy this country, we're doing a great job of it all by ourselves.
Re:*sigh* Not Again... (Score:5, Insightful)
Well you did make me RTFA retarded AC and I think that TWX is wrong: we probably will know. It seems this is another "conspiracy" of one where the FBI eggs on a crazy guy and supplies him with all the tools to turn his bad feelings into a charge they can pin on him. Given that this is the initial CNN article, and that is usually when the case for the FBI is presented most favourably because there has been no time for journalists to investigate more in-depth.... Well, you can read this and see that it's probably entrapment when described most favourably so likely will be conclusively that later on when more embarrassing facts start to be revealed.
from TFA:
""There is no information to indicate he was connected to a foreign terrorist organization. It appears he was radicalized watching videos on the internet. He was given the opportunity to back down, but he never wavered" from his intention to carry out the attacks, the source said."
"The FBI agents also gave Ferdaus six AK-47 assault rifles and three grenades, but they weren't functional,"
"he began supplying the FBI undercover agents with cell phones rigged to act as electric switches for improved explosive devices"
"Undercover federal agents also gave Ferdaus 25 pounds of fake C-4 explosives"
"The investigation also involved a cooperating witness"
"law enforcement official said Ferdaus posed no immediate danger to the public because undercover operatives kept in close contact with him"
Yep, pretty much the same story as the other "terrorists" the authorities have caught: (not the incompetent real terrorists that the public caught) Entrapment.
Re:Did anyone tell him (Score:5, Insightful)
Clearly a mentally disturbed individual, targeted, groomed and his mental delusions preyed upon to create a opportunity for public terrorism promotion and of course prop the ego and future careers of a couple of agents.
Real indicators of delusion, using a $6,500 dollar model aircraft, grandiose plots with little action (the agents did pretty much everything) and, no indication of employment whilst living with parents.
The really disturbing things about the way it is being presented are, ohh look he had a physics degree (smells of targeting all university students in science areas as potential threats) and, he took photos of buildings (why he didn't just use street view remains or the thousands of available photos on line are further indicators of deranged thinking). Also they were careful to exclude from the press releases any indication of mental disturbance in the individual, even though it seems pretty obvious.
Worse, maybe it's FBI entrapment (Score:5, Insightful)
As I understand it, all Islamic terrorists arrested inside the U.S. were put up to it by the FBI [metafilter.com].
You see, the FBI prefers to train it's own terrorists because doing so is far easier than catching the real deal, who might be dangerous, or hard to find, or worse not exist at all. Don't you feel safer with the FBI making sure there are terrorists to catch?
Re:*sigh* Not Again... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yep, another case of the FBI finding a 'terrorist' by finding a mildly disgruntled guy, giving him fake weapons and explosives, suggesting a terrorist plot to him, and then 'catching' him when he did exactly what they wanted him to do.
Like these guys:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/fbi-arrests-terrorists-sting-operations-dallas-springfield/story?id=8666300 [go.com]
And these guys:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/11/families-struggle-in-the-_n_957365.html [huffingtonpost.com]
Re:*sigh* Not Again... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yeah right... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:God dammit (Score:4, Insightful)
Am I the only one who reads this and is reminded of the scene in 4 lions with the terrorist who wants to strap dynamite to pigeons to blow up , uh, jews or something.
Pretty sure if a 757 can't destroy the pentagon, sure as hell a toy airplane with a stick of dynamite taped to it sure as hell wouldn't.
At some point we're going to realise that most western terrorists are not Bin laden's but angry clowns.
Re:Rezwan Ferdaus is a moslem (Score:5, Insightful)
So in other words, you feel your atheism gives you superior morality.
His atheism allows him to question morality, his own and others, as opposed to morals dictated by a religion that must be adhered to without question.
--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false,
and by the rulers as useful.
— Lucius Annæus Seneca.
Terrorism, the new religion.
Re:Worse, maybe it's FBI entrapment (Score:2, Insightful)
How the hell does an RC aircraft "filled" with C4 even get off the ground
You idiot. The same way that a B-52 "filled" with bombs get off the ground: less plane + fuel + payload than total wing load + thrust.
how do you avoid having it stall
The same way every other plane avoids stalling.
blow you up instead of your target.
Carefully, you jackass,
Smells like a hoax (Score:2, Insightful)
So let me get this straight. The FBI finds some useful idiot, gives him money/C4/whatever and coaches him on what to do. They create the problem... Then it makes national news? This is more than absurd. There was little chance of him actually completing this plan, much less actually inflicting any damage. This should haven't even made national news.
But let me state the obvious: This is a PR campaign. It keeps us afraid of the evil alCIAda boogeymen, and further gives the government more excuses to clamp down on us, the slave class.
As someone who has worked on drones for over a decade, I can tell you first hand that these drones could not have carried enough C4 to be anything more than a nuisance. Further, it takes more than buying an R/C plane to be a credible threat. He probably would have crashed, being the patsy hack he was. Oh wait, that's right. He wasn't a threat after all, according to the article.
Ask yourself. Why did this make national news? Did I mention the CIA has a budget for propaganda?
Doing the "right thing" (Score:5, Insightful)
you feel your atheism gives you superior morality
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire.
Re:God dammit (Score:4, Insightful)
You're forgetting something...
The vast majority of energy released in such a plane crash is done so burning off the fuel. The ballistic energy of the craft combined with the engine thrust is fairly small put next to that.
Re:So now we're down to catching the nutcases (Score:5, Insightful)
With the Times Square bomber, he also had a half-assed ANFO bomb in the car as well. Why half-assed? Because he didn't follow even the most basic and logical testing routine. If you want to make homemade explosives that you are not sure will go off, you need to
1. Make SURE you have the right ingredients (he had the wrong kind of Fertilizer because apparently he can't read labels)
2. TEST your concoction, with a large enough sample to be sure it works.
Oh, and multiple detonators are probably also a good idea. Don't just rely on a single fuse that might go out.
The various 'terrorists attempts' over the last 10 years have been so pathetic they make me angry. (because we are spending trillions of dollars to fight enemies who are so incompetent they couldn't shoot someone in the back without blowing off their own foot)
Re:Worse, maybe it's FBI entrapment (Score:2, Insightful)
So, let's see, the FBI GAVE him grenades, AK47's and 25lbs of C4 (all duds), but THIS guy is the problem ??
Even Apple fanbois can be lured into accepting FREE Android phones and tablets !
What does this sort of entrapment prove ?
That everyone has their price ?
I'll bet that it's even EASIER to convince, say, Libyans and Syrians to PROTEST against their own governments. Especially if you give them ACTUAL AK47's, grenades and C4 !
Re:Did anyone tell him (Score:4, Insightful)
In other words, our response to the minor incident is what causes the damage?
As a physician I can't help but notice the similarity: You would not believe how many disease conditions are caused by a person's own immune system over-reacting to an otherwise relatively benign situation. Take for example the leading cause of death - heart disease due to atherosclerosis. A condition where macrophages (part of the body's defenses) decide to "eat" LDL cholesterol because they think that this natural component of the blood-stream is a foreign body. Unfortunately for them they don't know that they can't digest LDL-cholesterol, so they keep eating it without metabolizing it, turning into "foam cells", dying, and releasing all sorts of nasty stuff when they die, nasty stuff that calls other macrophages to the scene to see what's going on. Unfortunately the scene happens to be your coronary arteries. Almost all rheumatic and inflammatory diseases are caused by similar mechanisms - overstimulation of the host's immune response leading to tissue damage from one cell line or another, or overproduction of antibodies or complement, etc; as well as some infectious ones (like TB, for example).
Perhaps we should deal all of their plots a fatal blow by tempering our responses
Well if you are responding then you are not the one with the initiative. You need to get them to respond to you. And you need to deal the "fatal blow" by either removing their ability to hurt you (completely impossible because explosives are so easy to make - they were making them in the 11th century for god's sake), or removing their desire to hurt you. I would put my money on the latter, but honestly this would require a complete re-write of current policy as well as a major re-shuffling of world politics and economics. So that's not going to happen either. What's left is damage control and trying to minimize the size of events and losses when they do happen. I guess that's what is being done now.