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More Windows Phone Update Problems

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  • wtf? What on Earth does that mean?

    A software has compatibility issues on some specific hardware. Amazing and never seen before. So what?
    • by nstlgc (945418) on Saturday April 30, 2011 @09:29AM (#35984034)
      It means it's Micro$oft bashing time!
    • Re:Update saga? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by gbjbaanb (229885) on Saturday April 30, 2011 @09:43AM (#35984112)

      it means that all those WP7 developers might have the latest, coolest, Silverlight based .NET development tools, but once something doesn't work the way the pointy-clicky development environment says it will, they're pretty much clueless.

      It means that they can't get an update to work on a handful of phone models running 1 version of the software. (think what would have happened if they had the hundreds of models that Android has been released on).

      It means that dumbing down development only leads to very poor engineering practices. Most of the time you don't notice, but when you need that old-style expertise, you really miss it.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by giuseppemag (1100721)
        Silverlight is not "pointy clicky development". It is a clean Reactive Programming model that strongly emphasizes the distinction between general layout, data templates (how you represent your app objects) and application logic. The three layers are put together, respectively, by XAML, templates and styles, and the very powerful mechanism for data-bindings.

        I do not wish to offend, but you may not know much about Silverlight. Up until a couple of versions ago it did not even have a visual plugin for Visu
        • Silverlight is not "pointy clicky development". It is a clean Reactive Programming model that [blah blah blah, heh, funny buzzword soup, LMAO]

          I do not wish to offend, but you may not know much about Silverlight. Up until a couple of versions ago it did not even have a visual plugin for Visual Studio...

          Oh, shiiii--! You weren't making a joke? That wasn't supposed to be funny?!

          I'm sorry... it's just that I'm an ASM/C/C++/Java/Perl/Ruby/OCAML/Haskel/JavaScript programmer... and I've tried Silverlight...

          • Well, I know a shitload of languages too: C/C++/C#/Java/OCaML/Haskell/Lisp/Scheme, so my intellectual dick does not look shorter than yours...

            Btw, I know the difference between a library and a language and so I know that it's quite irrelevant how many languages you know to judge a software library.
            • Well then, you must certainly recognize that all the features that you mentioned about Silverlight were specifically designed so that it would be simpler to make Silverlight a back-end for a "pointy-clicky" front end language "studio" (IDE).

              Come on... being familiar with other languages you must be able to see this -- right? I mean... "XAML, templates, styles, and data-bindings." All designed from the ground up to be easily representable in an IDE that already uses those concepts to perform refactoring

              • Honestly I don't get the point of your snarkiness about my humour...

                Mostly I do the following: I write reusable meta-libraries in F# that generate the same code-behind that others would repeatedly build by hand in Visual Studio with C#. So I clearly hear what you are saying, but rather than conclude negatively that an easy-peasy avenue makes a library "dumb", I appreciate the fact that the underlying model is clean enough to allow both library makers and "regular coders" to be productive. More often tha
              • by caywen (942955)

                Come on... being familiar with other languages you must be able to see this -- right? I mean... "XAML, templates, styles, and data-bindings." All designed from the ground up to be easily representable in an IDE that already uses those concepts to perform refactoring....

                XAML was designed from the ground up to be a declarative way to express object heirarchy and relationships. Nothing to do with an IDE.
                Templates were designed as a way to customize declared UI at a visual level. Nothing to do with an IDE.
                Styles were designed as a simple way to set properties on objects and react to property changes. Nothing to do with an IDE.
                Data Binding was designed as a way to declaratively ensure that properties and UI can reflect data declaratively. Nothing to do with an IDE.

                In fact, if

        • by 0123456 (636235)

          The three layers are put together, respectively, by XAML, templates and styles, and the very powerful mechanism for data-bindings.

          Oh joy.

          That sounds like the kind of projects I've had to try to support in the past where everything was configured with a bazillion XML files and the original developers were long gone so you could never figure out which objects were calling which other objects without spending two hours deciphering the linked list of XML lookups.

          • Sounds like a problem with the project developer...
          • Basically, the XAML defines the UI, while the codebehind defines the logic. In the XAML, you can write binding expressions that declaratively bind values from objects to the UI or between objects in UI (if, for instance, you wanted two panes of a window to have the same size). XAML includes a style system that allows you to control rendering, and you can control that through binding expressions.

            It's hardly different than other development frameworks that separate the codebehind from the visual definition, a

            • by gbjbaanb (229885)

              or to put it another way, its Microsoft's version of the internet!

              HTML is used to define the UI while codebehind (javascript) defines the logic. HTML includes a style system that allows you to control rendering. etc etc. There's not much difference in concept between them.

              However, the binding between UI and objects is horrible and I expect MS will come up with 'XAML binding v2' in the next release of .net and everyone will say how crap the old way was - it reminds me of nasty XML elements being used instea

          • You're confusing XAML with XML configs. XAML is not a config, it's a markup language (XML-based, yes) for GUI. It's actually very similar in concept to OS X / Cocoa .xib files, or QtQuick QML (except that this last one isn't XML) - all ultimately represent trees of objects. There are no XML configs in Silverlight, unless you add them yourself.

        • by jo42 (227475)

          Silverlight is not "pointy clicky development". It is a clean Reactive Programming model that strongly emphasizes the distinction between general layout, data templates (how you represent your app objects) and application logic. The three layers are put together, respectively, by XAML, templates and styles, and the very powerful mechanism for data-bindings.

          And will only run well on mobile devices when we have quad core mobile devices with 4GB of RAM in two or three years...

      • by cbhacking (979169)

        Wow, clueless much? This update fiasco is ridiculous, but that's no reason to spread such complete bullshit. It has nothing whatsoever to do with

        • WP7 developers, because this is an OS update, not an app.
        • Silverlight based .NET development tools, because this is the native ARM code of the OS, not the app-layer stuff.
        • Pointy-clicky development environment... WTF? That doesn't even really apply to Silverlight, much less to an OS update
        • "pretty much clueless" is an easy insult to swing at a company like Microsoft,
    • by Locutus (9039)
      the clue should have been the mention of previous news of problems in February. The use of saga in this case is defined as a long drawn out process or story. As the story goes, there have been promises of updates to the software because it was shipped missing features now common on the other platforms and it was explained how and what was required to get those updates. Some problems with the initial updates caused the vendor to stop the updates and some users didn't get updates. Some users were left with de
  • by dachshund (300733) on Saturday April 30, 2011 @08:55AM (#35983890)

    "If you have time to rigorously test only one component of your software platform, make sure it's the update functionality."

    Words to live by.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    The words "Windows Phone" and "Update problems" are interchangeable, and mean the same thing. Windows Phone is nothing but problems and should be avoided at all cost.

    The platform will soon be discontinued, as it is not selling. This happened before with Microsoft's Kin phones. Users got burned.

    • *sigh*

      Every time the Kin comes up, I feel compulsed to write up the three sentence summary of the problem that was obviously overlooked by anyone using the Kin as a means of bashing MS...

      The Kin cost $199, required a $30 data plan, and was a feature phone with facebook and twitter clients.
      The Blackberry Curve cost $199, though almost invariably had some sort of gimmick involving rebates, buy-one-get-one-free, or similar. It required a $30 data plan too, but had an actual web browser (didn't say a GOOD web b

      • The Kin was a flop, but if it had a music player and only cost $5 for the data plan, the story might have been a bit different.

        I would disagree with this. The Kin didn't fit into any real category. It cost as much as a smartphone, but you couldn't get 3rd party smartphone applications like other phones. It had built-in applications, but the ones that existed were not very good. It even lacked basic functionality like a calendar and contact lists which I had on my dumb phone ten years ago. The whole concept of the phone was a flawed as it was between a smartphone and a dumbphone but appealed to virtually no one. Teens (whom the

        • It cost as much as a smartphone, but you couldn't get 3rd party smartphone applications like other phones.

          Which is why he says if it cost $5 it might be a different story. You disagreed with him and then re-stated his point.

          • And you didn't read the rest of what I wrote. Even it only had a $5 dollar data plan, it still cost $199 which is a lot for the targeted demographic. If you lowered to the price to be a dumb phone (which Verizon had to so to get rid of their inventory), it wasn't very good as a dumb phone. It still didn't have very good applications and lacked calendar and contacts. None of those defects are overcome by a cheaper data plan or cheaper price.
      • by MHolmesIV (253236)

        Wait... what?

        The Kin had a web browser, arguably better than the blackberry, and a fully functional music and video player equivalent to the Zune HD.

        Phone features were not what killed the Kin, marketing missteps (aiming a phone at people not normally willing to pay $30 a month for data), not including texting in the base cost, for a texting based phone, and reviewers comparing it to the iPhone, which it was not intended to compete with, killed it.

  • I have a Focus with AT&T. Update came through fine for me last week, and overall I am quite pleased with it.

    One of the little publicized problems related to the Focus was its issues with music playback. You could start a playlist, turn the phone "off" (sleep mode), and some random number of songs into the list, there would be stuttering and sometimes crashing on a track change. This was a very annoying problem for someone who had come from a Zune HD and was hoping to migrate all my music over to my n

    • by clang_jangle (975789) on Saturday April 30, 2011 @10:47AM (#35984354) Journal
      Well it's nice to hear that microsoft have finally coded a media player for their new phone platform that works. Curious choice to do so after release of the platform to customers everywhere, but at least their platform is now almost caught up to where Apple, Palm, and Nokia were in 2006. Or will be, when updating doesn't strand anyone anymore.
      • I think the take away from this story is th at the Samsung Focus is broken, not that WP7 is broken. Considering HTC has managed to release a couple products free of problems and that received timely updates the 'problem' updates always seem to be focused on the samsung focus and the omnia.

        (Disclosure: I have a Dell Venue Pro and its camera and wifi firmware is garbage and in serious need of updating--it did however update WP7 fine.)

      • by cbhacking (979169)

        That was a focus-specific issue, so far as I've seen. (I live in Seattle, and know several people with different WP7 devices. Only Focus owners complained about the stuttering.) Agreed that it's pretty awful to have on a new OS, but that's more a "v1 OS with specific hardware" issue than a "MS can't code a mobile music player" issues, since the Zune line of hardware and HTC-based WP7 phones didn't seem to experience that issue.

    • This is Slashdot. We don't bash teh loonix here.
      • by Billhead (842510)

        So am I the that is seeing this MOTD at the bottom of /.?

        Are Linux users lemmings collectively jumping off of the cliff of reliable, well-engineered commercial software? -- Matt Welsh

    • by yodleboy (982200)
      Weird, my Captivate upgrade went without a hitch. Can't say I'm thrilled with Froyo, lots of bluetooth issues since I upgraded. Considering it's Samsung, I probably will never get a fix.
  • for older phone platforms, and have myriad issues that never go reported here.

    • by Locutus (9039)
      that's not entirely true but one of the reasons many put their money down on the Nexus One was so they would not be beholden to the wireless service providers for phone OS updates. /. would be flooded with articles of late or no updates to older phones because guess what? The wireless phone service carriers don't want your old phone to be updated because they use the devices to lock you into contracts. Because so few bought into the contract-less Nexus One, US customers are stuck depending on those who don'
      • Gingerbread was released on December 6, 2010, yet the Nexus One didn't receive an update until almost 3 months later on Feb 23, 2011. The Windows Phone update in question was released On March 22nd. Here we are only a Month later where one manufacturer seems to have trouble with this.

        How exactly is this situation worse than Android's?

        • by Locutus (9039)
          I was replying to the parent of my post, what are you responding to? FYI, the discussion was about dropping support not how quickly or slowly updates are rolled out. Personally, I could care less about WP7 mostly because I've been jaded to all the marketing and purchasing of market share Microsoft does besides it taking over 5 years, if ever, for them to finally get a product someone might choose if they put 2 minutes into comparing the choices.

          LoB
  • I got my update just fine weeks ago. It took about 5 minutes and I was up and running with all the latest. I think people have problems when thy try to do an update and their hard drives and/or micro SD cards are completely full.
    • Just out of curiosity, why do you have a Windows Phone 7? It's been really hard to find these users, and I'd really like to know why someone would decide to buy a Windows Phone.
      • by lymond01 (314120)

        Two people I know use them and it's for the same reason I use an iPhone: email, web, apps. The Windows Phone 7 is going through the same birthing process as iOS. But I have to admit that while not as functional yet as either iOS or Android, its interface is as polished as Apple's and the Apps are very intuitive. It could become a the BB replacement for the younger IT and business set.

  • by Daetrin (576516)
    Microsoft can't seem to get a handle on updating phone firmware, and Sony can't create a secure network for their game systems to save their life. Both of them have areas of their business at risk from the smartphone and tablet revolution. Perhaps the two of them should team up on a phone/game system hybrid for MASSIVE DAMAGE!
  • Desperate to stay competitive against iPhone and Android mobile devices, Microsoft has released a two-pound lump of actual cow faeces [newstechnica.com] that they claim constitutes a phone.

    Windows Phone 7, in development for several years, strips the mobile telephone down to its fundamental essence: futility, annoyance, malfunction, inconvenience and a socially unacceptable odour. Confounding analyst expectations, the turd is in fact shined.

    US mobile carriers hailed the turd as the perfect physical complement to their world-famous customer service. "This powerful product will promote our growth!" said John Harrobin of Verizon Wireless. "We're marketing them as edible."

    "We think we can really work the brand equity," said Steve Ballmer, modelling the optional shoulder-length rubber gloves. "Everyone works with our stuff all day every day. They know who Microsoft is and what we do."

    "How about making our customers actually swallow our bullshit physically?" said John Harrobin. "Windows Phone 7 was my idea."

  • this update problem seems to be as much samsung's as msft's.
  • Ballmer was overheard screaming, "Mail the damn users an update CD or something!"

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