The FBI Wants To Know About Your IT Skills 211
AHuxley writes "The FBI, via the Office of Management and Budget, would like to find out more about your information technology expertise if you are part of InfraGard. Terms like 'practical utility' have been included in a 60-day emergency notice of information collection via the Paperwork Reduction Act of 1995. Is your boss or cubicle colleague part of InfraGard? It's a private, non-profit organization run as a public-private partnership with the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Are they passing info back about you or your company?"
Echoes of B5's "Night Watch" for IT? (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe it's not that sinister but that's the first thing that popped into my head. Looking at the website, it's initial intentions aren't that sinister but mandating that much sharing of information sounds a bit creepy. You guys are going to be DHS'd/FBI'd to death if you're not careful.
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They refer to it as "A collaboration for infrastructure protection". Does that make those who sign up for it "collaborators"?
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Or at least its stated intentions. Nightwatch sounds like a good fit, actually: If you're loyal, then why wouldn't you want to help? The catch of course being loyal to what...
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There was actually an episode of a show on TV about it (Conspiracy Theory with Jesse "The Body" Ventura)... dunno how much of it you can believe, but if even some of it, then this is sinister.
This would not be the first time that the government has helped/hired/worked with outside agencies to collect information that they cannot legally collect directly. My presumption would be that with updating such records about the members of InfraGuard, they can find the InfraGuard members best suited for covert info
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Maybe it's not that sinister but that's the first thing that popped into my head. Looking at the website, it's initial intentions aren't that sinister but mandating that much sharing of information sounds a bit creepy. You guys are going to be DHS'd/FBI'd to death if you're not careful.
You are quite correct... remember Carnivore and the denial it existed? Then we ended up with Magic Lantern which is still denied even though I have the source code. The CIA are the evil ones, not the FBI. I have had good help from some federal agents in the past and I saved a 13 year old girl from a pedophile in Las Vegas. The fed in question was in California and I am here in the UK, now if it was not for our collaboration and my IT skills I would have never located her and quite possibly she would have be
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He has a point. It's not like all these other theories in which people that get interviewed aren't allowed to give counter-weight towards claims and question and all... Which is good.
I am not a US citizen and I have not had to deal with being a potential target, but in my country, this spying thing is comming too: Rfid passports and public trafic cards. Camera's starting to pop up in large cities, on streetcorners and my entire traffic back and forth between me and my ISP gets backed up fully by ISPs, every
Re:Jesse Ventura (Score:5, Insightful)
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I've made both of those mistakes (taking a leatherman, and a full bottle) and was allowed to drop the leatherman off with the airline (and re-queue for another 20 minute wait) and just got the bottle taken away in the other case.
Of course, I have white skin and North European features, so that tends to see a different reaction than others might get.
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oh, I agree.
I'm actually afraid that TSA will blow up an airplane by mistake. Here's a small example.
I take a lot of pictures when I'm traveling for fun. I usually carry about 16hrs worth of batteries (which is about 1 AA / hour at the rate I shoot.) So I go to security w/ my batteries all nicely packaged tight. 4 in the cam, (A cannon S5IS, a good cam for my poor budget) and 3 sets of 4 in my camera bag. Each set is stable, all positives up, all in different locations in the bag. In the camera bag I
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And for the question of if they have legitimate grievances against the west - they do but they exa
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Yeah well you're not getting the same news I am buddy. Which is really not surprising... Try watch something other than Western media. Islam wants to rule the world? Riiight...
What about this: US does rule the world - most of it anyway - and the islamists are the only ones with enough balls to put up a fight. Why don't the radical extremists terrorize more liberal muslim countries that don't apply Shariah law then like Jordan and Turkey if they really want Shariah law everywhere? Those should be easier to c
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Maybe I've been brainwashed too much by mainstream media (I prefer not to watch it, but everybody does so in the end I am recieving it too), but I have never looked at it that way! :o
Where do you live?
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I live in the Netherlands and let me tell you this: this so called islamic threat is a joke. You should get you head out of that shithole called geenstijl.nl and grow some brains.
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The guy drawing Jews as if they were retards was also not realy sure of his life at the end of Nazi Germany, now was he?
Getting a little perspective here is key... The people in the middle east only see the USA start ruling their country and in the process of waging an uncalled for war, you see your family member die in the process. "Oops! This rocket should have not land on your innocent daughter... Sorry dude."
Get some fucking perspective. There are lunatics everywhere! Be it muslims or not... Offend a gu
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There are a lot of places run by horse judges doing "a hell of a job" and it will take a long time before competance creeps back in.
Re:Echoes of B5's "Night Watch" for IT? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm definitely not a big fan of Republicans and their degenerate relationship with religious folks these days, but is it really productive to mask the bad behavior of one political party by blaming it on another?
Petty Partisanship (Score:3, Insightful)
You can't blame the new guy for what the previous guy set up - that is just being childish and petty. What you can do is blame the new guy for taking a long time to fix the problems left by the previous guy. IMHO it hasn't been a long time yet
In this case I think Jerry Doyle is being childish and petty about where he is laying the blame.
New problems that arise are of course a completely different story but that's not what we are talking about, all this creeping
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being in office for 1/4 of his tenure isn't long enough? being behind massive bailouts isn't enough? keeping some of his campaign promises, such as giving people hte chance to read any bills before signing them? how about the iraq war, that'd we'd be out in months? Yes, bush fucked up a lot of stuff, but obama is actively continuing the bush policies, for the most part. What's OBama's response to the christmas bomber? more loss civil liberties. Gee, where does that sound familar?
America's crash is comi
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America's crash is happening now if you look around at all the people on food stamps and other problems. It could get worse but you are definitely in a rut that will take effort to climb out of. Replacing Obama wit
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You really do not begin to understand the problems facing your country. Nobody can wave a magic wand and fix it instantly or even within a year.
I think i understand them quite fine. And you can certainly do many of the thigns i pointed out within a year, and you can certainly start fixing other things that will take longer. He's done almost nothing.
As you have realised most of the policies are the same, but you have not realised that there is no magic wand to implement new ones instantly either.
No magic r
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Blaming anyone that follows them for the mistakes or deliberate damage by Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz etc is just being petty. Blame them for their own mistakes, I'm sure a few will happen.
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The British comedies "Yes Minister" and "Yes Prime Minister" make fun of some of these circumstances in a v
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Blaming the previous guys is a time honored tradition around the world.
Reminds me of Bush's blaming the failure in the economy on Clinton. Clinton left him with a "bubble". Which, after invading two countries and giving huge tax breaks to his buddies and subsidies to oil companies, just popped.
Re:Echoes of B5's "Night Watch" for IT? (Score:4, Insightful)
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I looked at the website and it doesn't appear that they are trying to create secret spies who report other co-workers to the FBI. It looks like they are trying to get real and practical information from the industry on how to protect the cyber structure. I didn't read anythink which indicates a secret nature to it.
Of course, any cooperation between a law enforcement operation and private citizens leaves open the possibility of an informant kind of role, but that's not new.
Here's the goal statement from the
Incoming festivity (Score:3, Funny)
This is not true, pitiful Earthling (Score:2)
I am not an extraterrestrial. I use a Macintosh because it is the best computer available on this backwards planet, even if it is a mere abacus compared to a child's toy from where I come from, which is France, of course.
Do not continue to claim that I am an alien unless you wish to become assimilated into The Collective.
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Because some of us are able to read the words that appear on the screen, and see that it is negotiating an AppleTalk connection then uploading a file. It's possible that they'd created some sort of AlienTalk to AppleTalk gateway and installed it on the fighter, but if they'd done that then why not just have it upload the virus directly and not bother with the laptop? The only reasonable explanation is that the aliens use AppleTalk.
First post! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:First post! (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:First post! (Score:4, Insightful)
More like The Party. Not only refering to the NSDAP but also to any parties in one party dictatorships. It was not much different in the Soviet states. You were a member of The Party and you suddenly had a much higher chance of promotion, of scientific credibility, of other merits that are credited on the whim of someone or a group of people.
How much do informers get paid? (Score:3)
Not being a citizen of any NATO country, they'd probably offer me less, the bastards.
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They went for anyone useful in any organisation they could, turning them, seducing them.
Or used own as long term sleeper, entering at the lowest point and working their way up.
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Well, if you are a member of InfraGrad and your boss isn't, then he suddenly has to be aware that you might snitch on him at any time. Now he has to treat you with some respect for a change!
Or fire you at the first possible chance he gets before you can get the goods on him. It's all great that you'd try to take him to court that you were fired for being in the InfraGrad program, but you'd have to prove it as well. And regardless of the case, after such a case is made public you can kiss your other job pros
Re:First post! (Score:5, Interesting)
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valid point, It looks like the government wants users ( in this case IT Pro's ) to be in communication so that in-case of something real bad, the net can still work.
reminds me of 9/11 air traffic controllers, they did an excellent job getting planes out of the air without government interference ( after they were told ) and since then, there are no standing orders to interfere with them if it happens again ( let the people who handle air-traffic do there job and not government it up ).
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Re:First post! (Score:4, Informative)
Of the three things you mentioned, only one is an acronym and thus only one should be ALL CAPS.
Gestapo is a shortened version of "Geheime Staatspolizei"
and Stasi is a shortened version of "Ministerium für Staatssicherheit"
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You could ask the 100,000 “inofficial employees” of the Stasi [wikipedia.org] that.
Or those who, in Nazi times, betrayed their own family members because they hid Jews.
Or actually anyone who “works” at an agency that spies on its own population.
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if you pay attention, you should also consider "block watch" programs. These are still voluntary. In seattle, people would make the point effectively enough that the cops had to stop having public organizing meeting. this was a while ago.
with the perpetuality clauses in the senate health bill, we now have what Tom Paine explicitedly described as tyranny, so what do you expect?
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Because they believe the whole "good citizen and patriot" BS?
You'd be amazed how far this can reach. The whole Gestapo system would not have worked if it hadn't been for people who consider it their "patriotic duty" to inform about people who are not really "in line" with the whole system, even if they themselves could not have cared less about the whole Nazi movement.
There are not really black or white, not really for or against government. Well, there are, but they are the minority. Most people are somewh
Re:First post! (Score:4, Funny)
The part I don't understand is why anyone would voluntarily become a part of InfraGrad and start "sharing information" about others in the first place.
Because, if you're not in the InfraGuard then you must be an InfraRed.
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If you think the US does not need some organization that does the job of DHS, then you are an idiot. If you accept that the job needs to be done, then you also have to accept the people that you've got, you can't just fire them all and build a new DHS by hiring, say, fine arts majors. At that point you can have a discu
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Think of all of those people who were never qualified to become a cop or some type of covert agent. They can sign up for Infragard and live out their fantasies.
LK
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Read your body language and tone the sales pitch as needed.
Some are asked for more, others just to listen, some just get a smile and a thanks.
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They might get some cash, a better flat, a car sooner, a better school, work might improve.
Anything to make you want to help.
Or if you where in trouble, all the problems went away if you helped.
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Bad things happen, you make a call and everybody who needs to know gets up to speed- fast.
Security issues, you call the FBI, its in the light.
All this is long term and very much in the dark, with a hint of 'payback' or 'insider' help.
Sooo, essentially... (Score:2, Informative)
Why is this necessarily a bad thing? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Why is this necessarily a bad thing? (Score:5, Insightful)
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> You must be new around here; my overlords will label you as low-risk, complacent, and obedient. job well done citizen
Well, wasn't that the WHOLE IDEA behind welcoming them in the first place? It would certainly be stupid to get them to label you as "potential troublemaker - not for promotion" whether you were or were not.
Funny stuff (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Funny stuff (Score:4, Informative)
I am a member of InfraGard. In the past, our local FBI office has asked members of our chapter to self-identify their expertise in a particular IT specialty. I and others did so, and subsequently assisted them in a couple of criminal investigations. I think the FBI just wants to broaden and formalize their inventory of IT subject matter experts.
Re:Funny stuff (Score:5, Funny)
The FBI has never contacted you in any way, shape or form, other than through this post. You are advised to retract your statement and apologize, otherwise legal action will be brought against you. Thank you.
Have a nice day.
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Did you create a user id just to post this?
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On the other hand, if it's the real FBI, then it kind of tells you how late they really are to the IT Party.
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And this is why people shouldn't drink before midday. Blurry vision, faulty memories and imaginary UIDs.
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He probably saw a post id, which currently seem to be in the 30-millions (yours is #30716530 for example).
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IT skillls lisdted bellow: (Score:3, Funny)
Wekl, fwirstly, my tyuping sklills are spoty on.
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An end run around warrants? (Score:2, Interesting)
So, if the FBI wants to ask for certain records they have to get a warrant.
But, if a member of InfraGard decides to provide the FBI with records without the FBI asking then it's a private citizen reporting "suspicious behaviour"
Or, would a member of InfraGard be considered an officer of the government, making any records they had access to inadmissable?
I'm guessing it's pretty clear that I'm not a lawyer.
Am I missing something? (Score:5, Interesting)
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From the little info that is available, the problem seems to be exactly the direct affiliation with the FBI.
ACM is just a professional organization, and they'd like to know the profiles of their members. ACM doesn't have other goals but tho help their members (at least officially).
The same applies to IEEE and others.
In this case, an external entity (the FBI) is asking for this info from members of another entity, which does not specify clearly their purpose or the nature of their relationship with the FBI.
I
Did any of you actually READ the link? (Score:5, Insightful)
They only want information about the IT skills of their own members. How else would they process ONLY 28,000 responses at 2 minutes each? This doesn't even seem to apply to all Infragard members, only:
"Public and private professionals
self-identified as having information technology expertise."
This would also be why it's called:
"InfraGard Knowledge/Skills/
Abilities Profile"
IT seems kindof obvious that they might want to know what the skills of their own members are if they need assistance on something. Not like the FBI knows anything about technology [wikipedia.org].
Perhaps they're looking for resources for the next time they have an IT issue/project they need to not fuck up. According to their website, you need a background check to join. Seems like a good way to build a database of IT professionals that you don't need to do background checks on after the fact.
Re:Did any of you actually READ the link? (Score:5, Informative)
Most people didn't. They panicked when they saw the headline.
I've known about InfraGard for a while now. It's more of a group of security consulting people, gathered together to try to get a solid handle on securing the infrastructure of the country.
I might be in the minority here, but this request is probably more in line with gathering a list for the FBI to go contact when they need an independent contractor for something. Like you said...while there's some aspects of tech they've got a handle on, there's others including this sort of thing that they just simply don't- and I'm thinking they thought it might be useful to get a list of that class of individual and what they do so they know who to turn to for help when they need it.
Re:Did any of you actually READ the link? (Score:5, Informative)
I have taught classes to an InfraGuard chapter in my area, it is quite different than the scary statements that have been made by many.
It is about being aware of your vulnerabilities and developing contingency plans and fairly basic security procedures to make it less easy for someone to mess with your infrastructure. Most of the folks who attend the InfraGuard monthly meetings are already in middle management and have been tasked with the chore of improving security. While pretty much anyone can participate there are levels to it. Some information is compartmentalized on a need to know basis when it comes to specific incidents or threats.
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I might be in the minority here, but this request is probably more in line with gathering a list for the FBI to go contact when they need an independent contractor for something.
You've got to put in terms that Slashdot users understand.
The FBI are looking for IT Security Pros [imdb.com] without having to send out a cop [imdb.com] to shake down an informant [imdb.com] during an actual emergency. Bonus points if the Security Pro has his own Command Center and is familiar with CB technology.
So? (Score:4, Informative)
Disclaimer; I'm an Infragard member (have been for about 7 years). Why are they collecting this? Easy, they're public/private partnership that focuses on emergency response. "In the event", they want to know who within there membership has skills that may be needed. Don't like it, don't join (or quit). Don't want them to have your data, make them remove it (you have the legal right to do so). No conspiratorial aspect here.
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Shame you had to post anon there, but I understand. And I'd have to concur- that was the read I got on this whole thing once I saw the request text on Cryptome.
Because of all the BS that went on prior to today within the Government, people are unfortunately hypersensitive of this sort of thing. What's sad about that, though, is that there ARE things to be up in arms about, even now, with stuff that the Government is doing (and in some cases, isn't...) in regards to "security" that goes unnoticed because w
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It's not what you collect, but what you do with it (Score:4, Insightful)
The Stasi were very good at collecting information. In fact, they were too good. They collected so much that their analysts couldn't effectively evaluate even a fraction of it. They lacked IT resources (when compared to Western agencies) and the Stasi leadership should have shifted more manpower from spying to analyzing.
The FBI has access to unlimited IT resources, and the US intelligent community if very effective at evaluating the information that they have collected. Just look at how they stopped the underwear bomber . . .
. . . uh-oh . . . never mind . . .
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The only reason that they switched from spying to analyzing is because half of the population was spying on the other half. That was also the reason that they got so much information, speaking of which if you have or did have a family member who lived or visited E.Germany at the time they were in operation you can view their STASI records if they weren't destroyed. My mother visited 2 times since she left as a child, on her first trip back they had 15 banker boxes full of information on her, her habits, a
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They split all the data up, so a walk out would be very hard.
Want a spies details, its paper work and face to face with a few top people.
The system worked well until they thought about nuclear war.
How could the reach their sleeper agents in the West, if the paper work was ash?
So they made digital records and placed them in a safe.
The CIA got a copy and did not share with the Germans
In the end the west injecte
Commander Taco of the InfraGuard? (Score:2)
Let's just turn those tables, shall we? (Score:2)
InfraGaurd's IT skills (Score:4, Funny)
I note that the web developers of InfraGaurd don't know how to change their favicon.ico from the sun logo.
Nice to see they're using Sun and Unix, I suppose, but who leaves the sun logo there?
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You should sign up and put a checkmark in the box labeled "knowing to change the favicon from the default". There's a separate box for knowing *how* to do that, check that one too if it applies.
Which skills are they looking for? (Score:2)
Just wondering what mad skills they might be looking for....
-Goran
Oblig Brazil Quote... (Score:2)
Don't suspect a Friend.
Report Him.
China 2.0 (Score:2)
They say that every medium or larger sized company in China has a spy in it reporting to the government. This sounds exactly the same, unfortunately. But then again, did you really expect it to be any different over here?
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> They say that every medium or larger sized company in China has a spy in it reporting to the government.
Only one?!? Someone clearly has been falling down on the job, over there.
A company for which I worked had four scientists from the PRC, and one of them was a narc.
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Only one?!? Someone clearly has been falling down on the job, over there.
A company for which I worked had four scientists from the PRC, and one of them was a narc.
I should have said *at least* one. :)
But that's what all governments do when they become concerned about security, be it their own against political rivals or they are worried about the security in a broader sense. I'm not saying it's bad or making any judgment here, either. It's just what always has happened throughout human history. Of course
Not as big a deal as people think (Score:2)
Are question marks a free pass for BS? (Score:2)
Obviously, this is just the first step. First, they register everyone with IT skills. Then they'll impose a tax on bits. Eventually, we'll be denied our constitutional right to keep and bear keyboards.
Is Slashdot now Fox News?
IT Guild (Score:2)
For some strange reason it's controversial here to mention the formation of an organisation that acts on behalf of it's members but wouldn't part of the function of an IT Union be to asses and represent the interests of it's members when it comes to organisations like these? Seems to me IT professionals need an organisational structure to support them from bureaucrats.
Asides from a bidding war lowering IT professionals pay rates towards slavery there is the matter of protecting our interests amongst many
The death of search warrents and probable cause (Score:2)
If information is voluntarily given to DHS, then no constitutional problems. How Nazi Germany Hitler youth of them.
whats wrong with this? (Score:2)
What's so wrong for a government to want to know who they can call on in case of cyber emergency?
I know people are afraid of big brother now, but not everything is done out of fear or terrorism....sometimes doing a head count of
a trade or career that can or is important to society is a good thing, else we would not have doctor's lawyers or engineers being
asked to register to let the government know who they are.
I guess we could view this as a compliment to the IT industry being promoted to being important e
Infragard is not nefarious (Score:3, Informative)
I am an Infragard member. I was working for a university research group and was required to join Infragard as a part of this research. I did not like the idea of being forced to join an organization I knew little to nothing about so I did research into the organization first. I read up on all of the conspiracy theories about Infragard and spoke with some members before joining.
The conspiracy theories link this organization to "big brother" programs that encourage people to spy on their neighbors. This is not actually the case with Infragard - as far as I can tell.
From what I can see, this organization is put into place for very good reasons. Look into the Russian action in Georgia last year - a large component of that military action was cyber-based. The Russians took over the Georgian infrastructure (electric, news and radio) far before tanks rolled into Georgian territory. If the US is ever attacked on a large scale, our infrastructure will be the first strike. Infragard allows a secured group of IT professionals to be "in the loop" on potential threats that cannot be made widely public yet. It also allows these professionals to collaborate on security issues in real time - as they happen.
Say a new worm was propagating across major infrastructure networks. An administrator at the water company finds evidence of this worm and sends a message to Infragard asking if anybody else has seen it. A person working at the electric company reads that message and notices that it matches something they are addressing as well. The issue may be quickly escalated and addressed appropriately. If these individuals had to deal with conventional reporting then the link between two critical infrastructure networks experiencing the same problem at the same time may be missed.
In my experience Infragard does not care a bit about individuals ripping a CD or something. This is about bridging the gap between law enforcement and IT professionals in order to minimize the time it takes to address a potential cyber threat on critical infrastructure.
Registering your IT skills with Infragard is optional, not mandatory. This is not as evil as it sounds and I see much more upside to this than downside.
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search on 'operation TIPS' while you're at it.
it never went away. only press notice of it went away.
Re:missing tags (Score:4, Interesting)
Bigbrother, snoop, and even Stasi perhaps but KGB, Gestapo? No, as tempting as it may be, the FBI is not rounding up all IT people and sending them to the showers....
For now, they are just recruiting "volunteers" to watch for "suspicious behaviour" and report "unreliable elements".
Just the most obvious problems (as mentioned in other posts)
Another thing to keep in mind: The so-called "War on Terror" can be used to outlaw anything and anyone.
Soon after a high-profile Cyber-Attack all knowledge of critical infrastructure(tm) will become classified. Too bad for those lacking the official clearance for things they already know. The state will have to place such persons in "protective custody" camps to keep the terrorists from expoliting their knowledge. Unfortunately, even a short time spent in a such a camp will disqualify you from ever getting back to your former life: While they could'nt prove any previous contacts to "unreliable elements", now they know where you have met them. Finally, once the "unrecovereable elements" are confined to the camps it wont be long until some politician wants the money wasted on their upkeep be spent on his constituency instead. That is where the "showers" come in ..
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"I'd worry about my government if they did nothing to encourage safe IT practices and if they did nothing but offer passive defense against the hackers employed by opposition countries."
You seem to forget we are not talking here about goverment IT services, do you? We are talking here about privately held bussiness. What the hell has government to do with them except getting away from their path as much as possible?
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I don't see any domestic surveillance embedded in what's online.
this gov org isn't as dumb as you think. or, restated, they aren't total idiots and don't fully disclose their actual intent and purpose.
not all gov agencies are as dumb as bush. in fact, bush's dumbness was a cover. no human could be THAT moronic and rise to the level of the most powerful man in the world if he's truly an idiot.
one of the smartest moves is to act dumb and it requires a certain kind of talent to pull it off. bush had that,
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do not judge people based on 'shift key' issues.
you'd be very wrong to do so on such trite matters. hint: there are other reasons for lower case.
you don't know all you think you do. realize that.
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Can someone put a taxpayer's money cost estimate on the 917 hours annual burden, associated with this information collection?
Let's say $100 an hour for a good salary and a nice office for the guy reading the applications. That's less than $100,000. However you feel about the idea, I can't imagine picking a less significant reason to attack it.
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The 917 hours represents the amount of burden put on the public, not the burden on the U.S. government. This calculation is a necessary part of the Paperwork Reduction Act for any information gathering.