Times Are Tough For Nigerian Scammers

The Narrative Fallacy writes "The Washington Post reports that online swindling takes dedication even in the best of times but succeeding in the midst of a worldwide economic meltdown takes patience, resolve, and hard work. 'We are working harder. The financial crisis is not making it easy for them over there,' said Banjo, 24, speaking about Americans, whose trust he has won and whose money he has fleeced, via his Dell laptop. 'They don't have money. And the money they don't have, we want.' US authorities say Americans — the easiest prey, according to Nigerian scammers — still lose hundreds of millions of dollars a year to cybercrimes, including a scheme known as the Nigerian 419 fraud, named for a section of the Nigerian criminal code. 419 is cemented in Nigerian popular culture. and the scammers, known as 'yahoo-yahoo boys,' are glorified in pop songs such as 'Yahoozee,' which gained even more fame after former secretary of state Colin L. Powell danced to it at a London festival last year."

Re:I would have suspected the opposite

[FlyingBishop]

I don't think the number of victims has decreased, just the payouts.

The Sting

[bolt_the_dhampir]

I wonder if any nigerian has ever tried it? By the way, about the 419's, check out http://www.419eater.com/ [419eater.com] Scambait is great!

Re:Why didn't the interviewer kill the guys?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Probably for (in the broad sense) the same reasons that an undercover cop doesn't attempt to arrest the mob boss, and a spy is a diligent worker, not a slacker, at whatever facility he is infiltrating.

Journalists, ideally, are a society's way of getting and broadly disseminating certain types of information. In this case, the value of the public knowing more about Nigerian scammers is easily higher than the value of one scammer possibly getting a slap on the wrist, or even a bullet in the face. There are all sorts of situations where doing the proximate "right thing" will mean losing the broader advantage: taking down the little fish and missing out on the expose of the little fish's boss.

This is especially true in situations where the journalist is operating against the currents of official interest/motivation. If the feds, either here or in Nigera, really cared(about anything other than the highest profile and most exceptional or publicly emotive cases) they'd find it trivial to hunt down large numbers of these guys. Just get a whole bunch of spamtrap accounts, scattered randomly across common webmail services, ISP email offerings, and the like. When the inevitable submissions come, act like marks until you have enough info to track the guys down. In general, interest is limited. Thus, raising interest/awareness in the issue, and possibly helping people protect themselves more effectively, is a lot more valuable than just identifying some minor player who could have been identified already if anybody cared. (In the context of internal political reporting, the situation is similar. Corruption at the low levels is generally a symptom of much more serious high level corruption, and exists because the powers that be don't care. Raising the issue of a single corrupt cop or DMV chair warmer, or whatever, is nice; but is like trying to empty a lake with a shovel. You really want journalists to go for the core of the problem.)

Re:Interesting Difference in Genetics

[Usually Unlucky]

I tend to believe it is warfare not genetics.

Both Japan and Europe at one point in time had the feudal system.

When you have hundreds of sovereign neighbors who want to kill you it gives you good motivation to develop educational instututions which help you develop both hard and soft power through innovation.

Probably also why the greek city staes had a reputation for innovation.

Meanwhile the African tribes were lucky to ever even come in contact with each other and never needed to develop educational institutions.

Re:Well, obviously...

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

My post was a combination of whoring for "funny" and impotently expressing my displeasure with Goldman's more or less perfect execution of regulatory capture.

If anything, I suspect that the Nigerian scammers are, on the whole, smart, motivated and fairly unprincipled, guys working in a tough competitive market. I have no love for scammers, and I'd be delighted to have them all hunted down; but underestimating the capabilities needed for crime, particularly fraud based crime, is just silly.

Re:Well, obviously...

[nelsonal]

Everyone needed government money, if AIG had failed Goldman would be dust in the wind (their hedges wouldn't have paid off, because no one would have had money). Also, they only are making money because of the cheap FDIC loans which are still providing government subsidized loans.

Re:Well, obviously...

[jhol13]

Are you implying guys in GS are any good?

I do not know GS particularly, but the idea is the same: few get money (bosses), no real money is involved ("dyed money"/"futures") and the customer are lied.

Re:Interesting Difference in Genetics

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I'm sceptical: there is plenty of evidence of contact and conflict between populations, tribes, and whatnot in Africa. Further, there are known instances of innovation in the service of success in those conflicts(Shaka's career in empire building being perhaps the notable example).

I'd be more inclined to blame quirks of geography and environmental biology. Africa has a massive interior area compared to its coastline, and IIRC, the worst ratio of navigable rivers to interior area of any inhabited continent. It also has few usefully domesticated animals. There goes most of your trade, beyond seriously high value/unit weight stuff.

The continent also, because of its climate and biology, has an enormous disease load, which imposes a substantial toll on all activities of life, particularly dire for dense populations(of the sort almost always associated with division of labor, and intellectual, technological, and social development).

Re:Well, obviously...

[citizenr]

They're pretty much the only major financial institution to make it through this crisis without falling for the scams and without needing government money.

Thats cos THEY were the ones running scams, GS almost single handedly crushed Polish currency at the beginning of this year.

Re:I would have suspected the opposite

[ahabswhale]

Nah, Americans are just fucking stupid. Our education system breeds retards who aren't expected to think more than what "OMGWTFBFF" text message they are going to send next. Set low expectations and that's what you'll get, so we got it. And if you think I'm just trolling or flame baiting, do some google searches and see what simple shit questions the typical American can't answer. It's shocking. FYI...I'm an American.

Re:The Sting

[Anachragnome]

OMG.

Thanks for the link.

Monty Python's "Dead Parrot Sketch" performed by Nigerian Email Scammers. Truly priceless. Almost worth the price they were promised.

The link. Make sure you follow the story all the way to AT LEAST the video on page 3.
http://www.419eater.com/html/bigman.htm [419eater.com]

6 years ago

[AnAdventurer]

in 2003 I recovered $15,000 for someone who lost their money to a web based computer scam. It was not easy and I didn't kill anyone (at the request on my client). Africa is a dangerous place. I have been doing stuff for a while, the odds of you getting all your money back are pretty much 0%. In fact I would say I did not get my clients money back, I probably got them someone else's money.

Re:I would have suspected the opposite

[Planesdragon]

do some google searches and see what simple shit questions the typical American can't answer. It's shocking. FYI...I'm an American.
--

it's amazing how dumb you can make someone look when you write questions with the idea of seeing how dumb you can make them look. (Some dumb British comedian even made a movie about it a few years back.)

Most of the questions you'll see asked are simply irrelevant to an American's life. And as such, if you ask them right off the head, they often as not won't have an answer. This is not a sign of poor thinking -- it's a sign of INTELLIGENCE.

Want to really test American IQ? (Or, hell, anyone's IQ, for that matter.) Offer a non-trivial cash reward. And ask the same questions. Watch the relative "intelligence" of Americans go up.

Re:Interesting Difference in Genetics

[JWSmythe]

    As others have pointed out, you need to review history a bit more. For about 1200 years, the "Moors" (derived meaning "Black") were the conquerors, taking millions of europeans and middle eastern people. Some estimate the number to be approx 40 million. When the Moors sided with the Arabic people, it was very very bad for the Europeans.

    Not to say the Europeans were exactly innocent. The "political" systems in place lead to slavery of the general population by the nobility. Needless to say, border disputes were anything but friendly for centuries.

    It's easy to believe that the Africans were simple people running around in small tribes who knew nothing but peace and avoiding being eaten by lions, but the Euro/American slave trade triangle was just another very dirty chapter in human history, not the only one like it.

    But, if you'd prefer to believe your way, that's your decision. I must quote...

    "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
    George Santayana (1863-1952)
    The Life of Reason (1905-1906)
    Volume 1, Reason in Common Sense - pg 284

    I like to believe that humanity had a kind, gentle history at some point, but in reality there's been an awful lot of blood shed and oppression. It's important for us to know the mistakes we've made before, so we can be better in our future.

    Genetics have nothing to do with behavior. All humans are the same. They do learn from their environment. Greed has spread like an epidemic around the planet, and we're seeing the collapse of that system now. It's funny that the scam artists are now complaining that their marks are all running dry.

Re:The Sting

[Kamokazi]

Yeah I did that for a while, it's a blast...I have several voice recordings of VERY pissed off east Africans :-) Never went for trophy pics or anything though. I highly recommend the Slashdot crowd checks it out...they 419eater crew runs a clean shop, they're very stringent on scambaiting for de-education of the scammers and making sure to not provide them any materials (fake IDs, etc) that could be used on real victims. They have a lot of neat tools to make the process easier and generally waste scammer time.

Re:Why didn't the interviewer kill the guys?

[mochan_s]

There are various forms of scams where people in the US are needed. I was in one (no, I didn't lose money, I just wanted to see where it would lead) where the scammer mailed me 6 $1000 CVS money orders by MoneyGram. I knew I would be arrested if I tried to cash the money orders. Anyway, I wanted to play along and see where it would lead but the scammer's English started deteriorating to such a point that I didn't even want to keep communicating.

However, my point is that the scammer had someone in the US mailing fraudulent money orders. I tried to find some way to contact somebody regarding this but I couldn't find anyone or anything: I made a few calls and tried to talk to a few people but nobody took me seriously. I live in Detroit and went to see the Detroit police as well (if you call 911 in Detroit and don't report murder, the operator will insult you and hang up). Nothing on the web except some volunteer organizations who want me to do e-mail them everything and no contacts or anything afterward.

So, yeah, there is absolutely nothing being done about these scammers.

The scammers are still around

[hamburgler007]

They just target a different segment of the population now. When times are good they seem to focus on the not so bright who are slightly greedy with a little cash to spare. When times are tough they seem to focus more on the more vulnerable and desperate. To give an example I have been looking for a new apartment, and have been using craigslist to look for rentals. They still have deals that are too good to be true, and not just bait and switch deals from unscrupulous realtors. I ran across one where the rent was very low, but the owner of the property was out of the state and would have to mail me the keys, application, etc, after I mailed an application (that would require my ss #, bank info, etc.) and money order (not check) for doing a credit check.

Re:6 years ago

[C0L0PH0N]

In 2008, I did NOT get a 90-year-old retired friend's money back. He lost over half a million dollars to a Nigerian scammer! I felt somehow personally responsible, because about a year ago, he came over to my office to request that I fax some financial documents to a bank in Switzerland. I didn't even look at them, other than to notice that one was for $200,000 and the other $350,000. Four months later, he came over and wanted me to fax some documents to a "barrister" in London. I couldn't get the phone number to work, so I started checking on the address. I found it was a phony address, but nestled right in amongst "barrister row" in a suburb of London. I started checking on the barrister, "David Mark". Surprisingly, he didn't even change his name, and was linked to dozens of Nigerian scams. He DID use a "hotmail" address, which is a big red flag for a "barrister" :). I discovered this "barrister" was promising my friend to get some of his money back, but that it would require "$40,000" fee. Evil, this was just the scammers continuing to prey on this poor man who had already lost almost all his money. He had actually already travelled (I found out) to Amsterdam to meet with these people. He had the $40,000 in a money belt to give them, but the airport authorities wouldn't let him out of the airport with the money and deported him back to America. LUCKY! He could see the scammers on the other side of the airport lines, holding up a card with his name on it! That is how close he was to losing his last $40,000. I finally was able to convince him (it wasn't easy) that these were scammers, and that his only recourse was to report it to the FBI, and that he most likely would never see his money again. This was very very hard for him. And he was a retired ENGINEER, no dummy, a very smart person. But old people are vulnerable to this sort of thing. Please tell all your old retired friends about these scammers. They are real, very very convincing world-class scam artists. When they get a bite, they turn it over to their very best con artists, and your friends will be in real danger of being fleeced.

More on the Moors

[Tyler Durden]

Coccotti: Sicilians are great liars. The best in the world. I'm a Sicilian. And my old man was the world heavyweight champion of Sicilian liars. And from growin' up with him I learned the pantomime. Now there are seventeen different things a guy can do when he lies to give him away. A guy has seventeen pantomimes. A woman's got twenty, but a guy's got seventeen. And if you know 'em like ya know your own face, they beat lie detectors to hell. What we got here is a little game of show and tell. You don't wanna show me nothin'. But you're tellin' me everything. Now I know you know where they are. So tell me, before I do some damage you won't walk away from.

Cliff: Could I have one of those Chesterfields now?

Coccotti: Sure.

Cliff: Got a match? Oh, don't bother. I got one. So you're a Sicilian, huh?

Coccotti: Uh-huh.

Cliff: You know I read a lot. Especially things that have to do with history. I find that shit fascinating. In fact, I don't know if you know this or not, Sicilians were spawned by niggers.

Coccotti: Come again?

Cliff: It's a fact. Sicilians have nigger blood pumpin' through their hearts. If you don't believe me, look it up. You see, hundreds and hundreds of years ago the Moors conquered Sicily. And Moors are niggers. Way back then, Sicilians were like the wops in northern Italy. Blond hair, blue eyes. But, once the Moors moved in there, they changed the whole country. They did so much fuckin' with the Sicilian women, they changed the blood-line for ever, from blond hair and blue eyes to black hair and dark skin. I find it absolutely amazing to think that to this day, hundreds of years later, Sicilians still carry that nigger gene. I'm just quotin' history. It's a fact. It's written. Your ancestors were niggers. Your great, great, great, great, great-grandmother was fucked by a nigger, and had a half-nigger kid. That is a fact. Now tell me, am I lyin'?

PS: Please direct all credit (or scorn) to True Romance. :)

419 Scam Baiting

[DaMattster]

I have noticed that it is harder to engage in this activity. I used to enjoy wasting as much of these cat's time as possible and then arranging to meet them in London and never show. Then, when I get the response, "I was greatly disappointed to see that you never arrived for our meeting," I would come up with some other excuse like a sick family member or something or other and arrange another meeting. I would do this until I heard from the scammer no more. Might be that these guys share information because my email no longer gets 419 scams. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

Re:Interesting Difference in Genetics

[MistrX]

Race isn't bound to culture. Neither is culture bound to race. Not forgetting the 1940's but I must admit that today the term 'racist' is used to keep minority populations in more developed countries happy. I hate politicalcorrectness because it often not a reflection of reality. It always ignores certain inconvenient truths.