The Worst US Cities To Work In IT 538
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by
timothy
from the hmm-if-atlanta's-on-the-good-list dept.
from the hmm-if-atlanta's-on-the-good-list dept.
bdcny7927 writes with an excerpt from CIO.com to inspire some caution before your next job switch: "IT workers have their choice of many great US cities for work and play (Atlanta, Chicago, Seattle), but what are the cities that you probably should avoid? Here's a very unscientific, highly subjective and unapologetically snarky list of our least favorite US tech job locales."
Re:Come on, Detroit isn't that bad. (Score:3, Insightful)
Urban jungles (Score:2, Insightful)
No way (Score:5, Insightful)
Sign me up!
What? (Score:5, Insightful)
Alaska is nice - if you can keep a job (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the beauty of Silicon Valley. I can work at a company for a few years and move to another, similarly-sized company at a higher position without much hesitation or worry. There are hundreds, maybe thousands of small companies looking at hiring IT folks. That kind of job security is what makes California much more appealing than a smaller city.
Re:Come on, Detroit isn't that bad. (Score:3, Insightful)
My reaction has always been that any place that needs to advertise that it is a good place to work/live/start a business is probably a horrible place to work/live/start a business
San Francisco (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm starting to wonder about California overall. The entire state is slowly sliding downhill (and not in a earthquake-into-the-ocean sense) thanks largely to the proposition system where any shitheaded idea can be made law by a simple majority vote -- I mean, if you ever need evidence that direct democracy is a terrible idea, look no further than CA.
Institutionalized gay bashing? Check. Costly mandates we have no way to pay for? Check. And then there's my personal favorite, a short-sighted effort to limit property taxes whose only real effect is to hurt younger people just starting out and drive the schools into the shitter? You know it.
I mean, maybe having worked with users for all these years, it's a little more obvious to me that people are (by and large) stupid assholes, but I feel there's enough evidence to convince any reasonable person at this point. Which is why we still have the proposition, I suppose.
Bentonville? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The complete list (Score:5, Insightful)
I find it funny that Boston is on both the best and worst list.
I recently was in Boston for the first time on business. I thought it was a great city as there was plenty of good food and night life as well as viable mass transit. Unfortunately there were the downsides too. I thought the city was "old" and "dirtier" than what I am accustomed to in Minneapolis and I definitely didn't feel terribly safe wandering around by myself at night. Would I live there compared to Minneapolis? Probably not but do I see why it's on both the best and the worst, yes.
In this economy... (Score:4, Insightful)
...the worst cities are those with no jobs. The best cities are the ones with jobs. If you want to pay your bills, you go where the jobs are.
Re:What? (Score:5, Insightful)
What a worthless list. What did anything they talked about have anything to do with IT?
Totally. I want to know which cities have the best (fastest/cheapest/least-restrictive) broadband to the home and have good/free muni-wifi. Which ones have a Fry's or the like, which ones are in states with low/no sales tax and/or don't try to impose "use tax" for mail-ordered toys. Which states don't require fingerprints to get a driver's license. Which cities have a "university culture." Which ones have cheap electricity for the server farm in my basement.
Those sorts of things are a lot more specific to IT people than the weather and sports franchises.
I'll speak up for Cleveland (Score:2, Insightful)
Having worked for 4 different tech companies in Cleveland, I'll speak up for it. Cleveland does have a few things going for it if you're in the tech sector.
There's good higher education to hire from (CWRU (of which I'm an alum) and CSU (from which I've had a couple of excellent co-workers)), good cultural institutions (Cleveland Orchestra, Cleveland Museum of Art, Playhouse Square, The Cleveland Playhouse), good restaurants, affordable housing, decent enough public transportation, and bearable traffic. There's also a national park within about 30 or 40 minutes of downtown (Cuyahoga Valley National Park).
The tech sector is a little small, but it's fairly close-knit as a result of that. I don't think you need 6 degrees to get from anybody to anybody else. One or two is probably sufficient.
While the professional sports teams are perennially frustrating, that's not what I look for in a city. At the end of the day, a city is what you make of it. Cleveland comes with a lot of big city perks without a lot of big city hassles.
Re:Urban jungles (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, but I won't tell at the risk of turning it into
Re:Highly subjective is right. (Score:4, Insightful)
California is a great study in why populist democracy is a lousy way to run a huge and complex state.
Re:Upstate New York Isn't That Bad... (Score:5, Insightful)
The other point to note is that in my experience (in Rochester, NY), upstate New York actually knows how to handle snow. The roads are clear and safe to drive 99% of the time, with plows deployed the moment snow starts sticking. Contrast with, say, D.C. or Seattle (both of which I've experienced) which regularly run out of salt, fail to plow many streets for up to a week, etc. And of course, the drivers in D.C. and Seattle don't know how to deal with snow/ice: at the first flake, ancient reptilian instincts cause them to drive straight into trees, jersey barriers, other cars, etc.
So yes, there's more snow, but it's not an additional inconvenience, as long as you don't mind the cold in the first place.
Re:Upstate New York Isn't That Bad... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Urban jungles (Score:3, Insightful)
As opposed to the cities that smell completely like public restroom at a cheap bar? Actually New York was rather nice when I went there. The nothing going on part is true in some places but the problem with most cities is everything that is going on costs big bucks. Have you seen what theater tickets cost? A night at a club? Even a lot of museums are charging these days.
It all depends on what you enjoy doing.
Re:Come on, Detroit isn't that bad. (Score:3, Insightful)
yea, but seriously, Boston is a bad place to live because the sports teams win? That's pretty fucking weak.
Re:Southern Utah.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Popular myth (Score:3, Insightful)
That was true during the pipeline construction era, but it's far closer to 55-45 male/female now.
That's still pretty unfavorable. It means that if every woman hooks up with a guy, there's still 10% of the population that's single and male.
Re:In this economy any IT job is a good job (Score:1, Insightful)
It's a really scary time to work in the tech industry. If you have a job, and it pays enough to support your family, thank the lucky stars you're still working. Not everyone is as lucky as you right now.
I really hate the phrase "you're lucky to have a job".
I have my job because I know what I'm doing, luck has nothing to do with it. If I lose my job, then I'll go beat out somebody for a new one because I've taken the time to learn what I need to learn and be damned good at it.
I keep my job because I'm an asset to the company I work for, not because they like my face or I carry a rabbits foot around.
Re:Come on, Detroit isn't that bad. (Score:5, Insightful)
As a commuter who rides the train that feeds Fenway, I can say that's a major detriment. Nothing like 30 minutes in a packed train with sweaty drunk fans to end your day in the office 2-3 times a week.
Re:In this economy any IT job is a good job (Score:3, Insightful)
Lucky stars? My ass. I thank the hard work, diligence, years of earning a rock solid reputation and maintaining social contacts.
The stars can kiss my ass.
Re:Urban jungles (Score:4, Insightful)
Canadian winters are what make the summers so enjoyable! If you don't get at least two weeks below -40, you don't savor the two week of summer as much as you should.
Re:Urban jungles (Score:3, Insightful)
I've never seen one proper city that didn't feel like a very suffocating place, full of busy little bees who have no idea what it is to take the time to smell the roses. I could never live in one.
If you have a car: Yes
If you walk and take public transportation: No
I used to be stressed all the time living in a city with over 5 million people simply because of the horrible traffic everywhere all the time.
So, one day I decide to get rid of my car. I got a job closer to home and now I take the bus everywhere and I feel less stressed and have more money.
I still visit friends (though I have to plan accordingly) and I can always rent a truck if I need to move anything big.
Overall city life ain't bad when you don't have to drive in it.
Though, word of warning... Your city needs to be made for public transportation. I don't think Atlanta or LA is going to be friendly for that.
Re:San Francisco (Score:2, Insightful)
Institutionalized gay bashing? Check.
That's what you're calling defining marriage now? So it's cool for 3 or 4 or 5 people to "marry" each other (yes, it will lead to that, people are doing it in other areas of the country). Got it.
It's called gay bashing when you disagree, but it's called tolerance when I disagree, right? I have to tolerate it while you can just call me a bigot, right?
And then there's my personal favorite, a short-sighted effort to limit property taxes whose only real effect is to hurt younger people just starting out and drive the schools into the shitter? You know it.
Exactly how does that hurt young people? I'm fairly young and I had no trouble paying my way through community college and only a little trouble buying my first house (that was mostly due to the over inflated cost of houses). As a matter of fact, the bank approved us for far more than we could afford, but since we were responsible, we bought in for far less. Now instead of having trouble making mortgage payments, we're doing just fine. And private schools seem to be doing quite well. In fact, we spend more per pupil than any other state, yet we have the worst schools. Why is that?
Prop 13 passed with 65% of the vote (70% voting), so it was hardly a simple majority that passed it. The reality is that the legislature then, like now, was completely out of control and this is what stopped them.
Re:Just an awful list. (Score:3, Insightful)
Remember that these articles are written by people who have only a passing interest in IT or technology. They like and buy gadgets. They never choose the OS their computer runs. They have no clue what geeks really like (for example quality import or locally brewed beer, instead of massive quantities of major brand junk).
Re:Come on, Detroit isn't that bad. (Score:3, Insightful)
They point out the high real estate prices (legit point) but they are high because everyone wants to live here.
If he doesn't like all those winning teams then I'm surprised he didn't also take a shot about having too many good schools (Harvard, MIT, BU, BC, etc).
Re:In this economy any IT job is a good job (Score:3, Insightful)
>Of everyone who was in my circle of friends working in the IT and computer industry in the mid-to-late 1990s, the only people who have jobs today are in middle management.
Not surprised. The 1990s drew in tons of unqualified unprofessional people into IT. Anyone who could install ICQ and reboot an Win98 machine got some kind of job by clueless hiring managers. These people didnt develop professionally, they didnt finish school, they couldnt write a basic admin script, didnt know any OS9 or OSX let alone any linux, and they didnt know much outside of the most basic level 1 support tasks.
Ive met these people and they really dont belong in the industry. Im not saying your friends are these people but there might be some overlap here. The culling in the last few years has sent a lot of people who dont belong in IT back to school or in different industries where they belong. Its more competitive now and when I mention, say, ssh I dont get a clueless look from the guy Im talking to. Having to work with unqualified bullshitters isnt desirable at all.
Re:Come on, Detroit isn't that bad. (Score:3, Insightful)
And buying is a gamble unlike renting. You are not guaranteed anything once you buy. I've seen areas like Duluth go from being nice suburbs to overrun with outward moving inner-city trash. Your foundation may split, you could have a water-runoff problem, or a thousand other issues like termites. What guarantee are you referring to?
Boston: worst and best at same time? (Score:4, Insightful)
They sarcastically slam Boston, but then list it as one of the 10 cities where "all the IT jobs are". So make up your mind already.
And as someone living in Boston, screw you and your list :-)
The inverse is true as well (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:San Francisco (Score:3, Insightful)
That's what you're calling defining marriage now? So it's cool for 3 or 4 or 5 people to "marry" each other (yes, it will lead to that, people are doing it in other areas of the country). Got it.
It's called gay bashing when you disagree, but it's called tolerance when I disagree, right? I have to tolerate it while you can just call me a bigot, right?
Prop 8 changed the state constitution to take away the right of gay people to get married. It was a purposely and specifically targeted assault on the rights of a minority.
You want to "protect marriage"* from all the horrors of those icky homos who have the gall to love each other and think that they deserve the same legal protections that those of us who happen to love members of the opposite gender are entitled to, then that's your right. But don't sit there and act all offended because I called a spade a spade -- there's absolutely no logical reason why the government should not allow gay people to get married, ergo you're a bigot for supporting removal of their rights.
* And what a great phrase that is, eh? I love how it implies that marriage is somehow under assault, like it's going to change somehow if we allow 'dem queers to get hitched. Thing is, though, I sure didn't notice a change in my marriage when same-sex couples were getting married at city hall....
Re:Ageism anyone (Score:3, Insightful)
They don't typically post pay rates. But it isn't unusual to also see them demand expert knowledge in six or seven obscure and unrelated technologies, I'm sad to say.
Still, if experience requirements mean anything, it is very unusual to see a job posting willing to hire anyone younger than 35 or 40. You can say anti-old-people-ageism exists, but all of my experience suggests the opposite.
Re:Come on, Detroit isn't that bad. (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, and to quote a friend, the only two good things in Dallas are good restaurants and good strip clubs.
To me, a 1000 sq ft apartment is plenty big. If I had a house, I'd have to worry about a garage, about garbage disposal, doing my laundry, gym and pool membership, maintenance and ad infinitum. An apartment or a condo? Compact, and all those amenities are usually part of the package. Hell, the place in Cambridge is 400 sq ft and that in itself works just fine.
Besides, it's not just the summer (and honestly, I'd rather spend all 12 months having a Boston winter than a single week of Dallas summer). Dallas just looks and feels very superficial. You can perceive character and depth to some cities, and I don't feel that in Dallas.
Boston has age and character, and there are a ton of things to do - art galleries, museums, book stores, music concerts, public libraries, sailing, climbing etc. Hell, if you are still bored, just take a train to New York over the weekend. I mean, there are *things* to do. This is probably one of the few places where if you walked into a book store in Cambridge, the guy working there could offer you a discourse on Jean Paul Sartre or John Stuart Mill or a barista talk to you about theoretical comp sci (real incidents both).
Boston (and specifically Cambridge) also feels very, very entrepreneurial. A lot of my friends doing startups, using their graduate thesis to get seed funding, working for VCs etc. And there is a lot of youthful energetic feel, which is inspiring - and which reminds me of the Silicon Valley.
Hell, even the bumper stickers tell me more - one place is full of religious mumbo jumbo and right-wing political stickers, while the other has bumper stickers along the lines of "I stop for aliens!". Go figure.