The Worst US Cities To Work In IT 538
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by
timothy
from the hmm-if-atlanta's-on-the-good-list dept.
from the hmm-if-atlanta's-on-the-good-list dept.
bdcny7927 writes with an excerpt from CIO.com to inspire some caution before your next job switch: "IT workers have their choice of many great US cities for work and play (Atlanta, Chicago, Seattle), but what are the cities that you probably should avoid? Here's a very unscientific, highly subjective and unapologetically snarky list of our least favorite US tech job locales."
The complete list (Score:5, Informative)
The list for people that don't like slideshows:
1. Detroit, Mich. - Jobs available: 449
2. Bentonville, Ark. - Jobs available: 81
3. Cleveland, Ohio - Jobs available: 211
4. Syracuse, N.Y. - Jobs available: 49
5. Tie: Boston, Mass., and San Francisco, Calif.
6. Anytown in Alaska - Jobs available: 24
7. Orlando, Fla. - Jobs available: 235
Southern Utah.... (Score:5, Informative)
Highly subjective is right. (Score:5, Informative)
I'd gladly take a position in Alaska. Wide open land with relatively few people. No overbearing State government that can't balance the budget, not much of an immigration problem up there either. Thanks to the oil revenues residents get checks from the State. About the only thing I would miss is being able to take the t-tops off on my Z28 even occasionally in the winter and pretty much all summer long.
If I had to name a State as worst State it would be California. Land of tax and spend with no fiscal restraint, holder of first county to declare bankruptcy and likely first State to go bankrupt. Of course the single biggest reason to avoid California for me is that about 3/4 of my firearms are unconstitutionally deemed illegal by the State.
Re:No way (Score:5, Informative)
I wish I would be transferred to Alaska. The hunting and fishing is great. There is room to breath. A man can raise a family in a manner more suitable to the American ideal. The commutes cannot be any worse than the suburbs of any major US city. Sign me up!
I hope you already have a family going then, because Alaska has a terribly unfavorable male-to-female ratio. Unfavorable if you're a man, that is. Otherwise I do agree with you.
I live in Orlando and it's not that bad. (Score:2, Informative)
And climate, well.. for 9 months of the year, the climate is perfect, warm and not humid. For three months, July-September, it's hot and humid and that is also the peak of hurricane season. But I prefer 95F and an occasional hurricane over months of waist deep snow and below zero . Hacking ice of the windshield before freezing on my way to work is way too overrated!
Not to mention that I can see each shuttle and rocket launch from my living room!
Re:Urban jungles (Score:2, Informative)
The Austin/Round Rock area is nice. It's growing fast, but your still never more than a few minutes away from a field of cattle. They're also building big assed roads out here, without the traffic to fill them yet. Seriously, the DOT budget here must be _insane_.
Snarky indeed... (Score:3, Informative)
I live and work in San Francisco and quite frankly I love it. I've never experienced any of the issues the article claims plague our city (I'm not sure what iJacking is, but my eye sockets are just fine).
Already done (Score:3, Informative)
In this economy any IT job is a good job (Score:5, Informative)
In this economy, any IT job is a good job.
Of everyone who was in my circle of friends working in the IT and computer industry in the mid-to-late 1990s, the only people who have jobs today are in middle management. Not one non-manager I knew back then and know today is working today in the tech industry.
I became an ex-pat, teaching English, translating documents, and helping with the Windows machines in an accounting office in Mexico. I would like to return, but there are just no jobs stateside where I want to live right now.
One friend saved enough money to semi-retire; he, right now, is living with his family to minimize expenses and off of savings. He's not really sure he even wants to return to the industry; the last job he had a couple of years ago left him really burnt out.
Another friend lost his job at a video game company in the late 1990s. He never got hired in the tech industry again, and is currently living off of a military disability pension, paying his debts and planning on returning to college.
These are my luckier friends. Two friends, who have families to raise, both very recently lost jobs in the tech industry and have no idea when they will get work again. One is living off of savings and is really scared when he will get a job again. Another didn't have as much savings, had to leave the apartment he was leasing, and is currently shacked up with a buddy who lets him sleep in the extra bedroom in exchange for computer help; his wife and kids are living with their family.
I am sure either one of these guys would accept a job in Cleveland or Alabama or anywhere else where the company is willing to pay them enough to support their family.
It's a really scary time to work in the tech industry. If you have a job, and it pays enough to support your family, thank the lucky stars you're still working. Not everyone is as lucky as you right now.
Re:The complete list (Score:5, Informative)
Well, considering that it's one of the oldest cities in the US, not a really big surprise.
Like most places, depends on where you are. Some sections of the Boston Metro area are pretty bad (Roxbury, I'm looking at you) but even in some of the "dingy" areas of the city (where many of the university students live) are actually quite safe and have a good amount of interesting culture and unique qualities you wouldn't find in the midwest or many other US cities.
Re:Highly subjective is right. (Score:3, Informative)
At what point did Reagan or Bush Sr. have a Congress friendly to spending cuts? Answer, never. The House of Representatives was majority Democrats all 12 years they were in office, and the Senate for 6. Even then, it's very difficult for any democratic government to actually cut taxes, because of the people who would lose 'their' job, and complaining from the vocal constituents who feel entitled for the outrageous handouts the government gives. We should have it be mandatory that all departments (other than Defense and Revenue) should have their existence be re-approved every 4 years, one year after the election. Make the departments justify their existence for the funds spent. (Maybe it's a bad idea, and we'll certainly never see it happen, but at least it would be a change, right?)
Re:No way (Score:5, Informative)
Uhm, no.
Alaska has a ton of oil and very few people. The Alaska Permanent Fund is an endowment created by the state government that sets aside approximately 25% of the state's proceeds from mineral sales.
The dividends from this endowment are then divvied up and paid to the people living in the state.
Popular myth (Score:5, Informative)
They missed a couple (Score:5, Informative)
My personal worst list:
I agree with Bentonville. Wal-Mart has to outsource development because it's such a crappy place to work and then you have to live in podunkville, AR, for the privilege of working in a crap shop. Their turn over is high and even the really good people I know who have worked there hated it.
Even with the economy in the toilet there are too many good opportunities out there to be stuck in a dreary job.
Orlando (Score:5, Informative)
I've worked in IT in the Orlando/Central Florida area since 1996. It's not that bad. It's not some perfect Utopia, but nor is it one of the worst places to work.
The Good
The Bad
The Ugly
The tourists aren't that bad, unless you are hanging out in the tourist areas. Which you aren't going to do after your first month here.
In all, there's more good than bad.
Re:Come on, Detroit isn't that bad. (Score:5, Informative)
1) We've got more coastline than California - and it's fresh water.
2) We've got 4 seasons (which is good or bad depending on your preference).
3) More second homes than any other state (most on the water).
4) We've don't get earthquakes, hurricanes, forest fires, termites, poisonous spiders/snakes.
5) We do get the occasional tornado, but far less than most of the midwest.
6) Education: we've got plenty of geek-schools.
7) Manufacturing. Does anyone care? We can build anything here - tech included
8) We've got an enormous set of technically capable people just waiting for companies to set up shop here.
Outside the 139 square miles of Detroit, Michigan is a paradise compared to a lot of places.
Re:What? (Score:3, Informative)
Madison WI. No, seriously. Huge 'university culture', lots of middle/big town conveniences, a liberal city/county government and a moderate state government. I don't know about the broadband situation but I would imagine that with the number of students and young IT people in the area it's probably above average. I don't know what you call 'low' sales tax, but the state rate is 5%.
Re:Urban jungles (Score:3, Informative)
Except that half the people in Clearwater are Scientologists.
Re:Cleveland doesn't suck. (Score:3, Informative)
Were building. Residential and commercial vacancy and foreclosure rates are very high, among the highest in the nation, throughout the entire region.
There are a few positives, if you can land a job: commuting is tolerable; culture is good for a city its size; cost of living is fairly low. Some of the suburbs (e.g., Lakewood, Cleveland Heights) are quite interesting and livable. Reasonably good healthcare. A handful of great colleges (CWRU, Baldwin Wallace, Oberlin). If you have very marketable skills and can mostly avoid the central city, a great quality of life is possible here.
But the negatives absolutely abound, especially in and near the central city. No large IT shops left. Small and shrinking middle class (consisting mainly of tradespeople; very little gainful employment of knowledge workers). Random violent crime against ordinary people (not just gang violence, and not confined to the inner city). World-class corruption at city, county, and state levels. Pervasive air and water pollution. Among the country's worst schools, in a country not known for good schools to begin with. Little sunlight. High rates of depression, thyroid problems, and various cancers. Low life expectancy. Very low average household income and wealth by developed world standards. Severe racial segregation and very poor race relations in general. Crumbling infrastructure. Bridges that are literally falling into the river, but cannot be closed for lack of any alternative. Public transportation limited to city-to-city or suburb-to-city commutes, while of what few jobs remain very few are in the urban core (most are in suburbs unreachable by transit). Rapidly aging population, well over national average levels of obesity and chronic health problems, mostly caused by pollution and/or poverty. Competes every year to top lists of poverty; always makes top 10 lists for crime. Entire streets boarded up and essentially abandoned. Most inner city neighborhoods ruled by thugs and/or organized crime. I could go on but I think you get the point.
I'm still lucky enough to have an IT job (for now at least) but if not for that job, plus most of my family being here, I'd have left long ago, probably for Eastern Europe where I also have family connections. Cleveland epitomizes just about everything that is wrong with this country. Both the causes (irresponsibility, entitlement mentality, government-worship, racial and economic prejudice, provincialism, anti-intellectualism) and the effects (poverty, disease, ignorance, near total lack of upward mobility, and the overwhelming feeling of hopelessness and resignation). It could be fixed, if enough people cared enough to act, but they don't, so the only real chance anyone has to better themselves and their families is to leave if they possibly can.
Re:San Francisco (Score:3, Informative)
Proposition 13 keeps the taxable value of a property at or near its value at the time of sale. An older couple who bought their house in the 1960s for $20K pays very little in property taxes, even as its value goes up to the $400K range.
This means that the last people to buy into the real estate market (read: young people) shoulder the bulk of property taxes.
It also pushes the tax burden away from businesses, who are more likely to hold on to properties for several decades. Also, if a company wants to get rid of a property, they can deed the property instead, retaining technical ownership without triggering the re-evaluation.
It also pushes the tax burden away from the rich (who are far more likely to own property) and towards sales taxes which hit the poor harder. Since younger generally equals poorer, that also hurts young people.
Re:Come on, Detroit isn't that bad. (Score:2, Informative)
Nice, fair minded assessment.
I've lived in MI (Midland, Kazoo, E. Lansing, Ann Arbor) for half of my life (50 years), and have a love/hate relationship with her. Other than the six months of gray skies (Nov-Apr), it's the most livable place I know (vs. PhillyPA, WashDC, SouthernVA, ChampaignIL, & HoustonTX). I'd return to A2 in a minute if I could find interesting work there.
One more bennie Michigan has that the OP forgot to mention:
9) SLASHDOT
Randy
Re:Come on, Detroit isn't that bad. (Score:3, Informative)
Boston is one of the best places to live.
Great schools, excellent job (and education) opportunities, good startups and VCs (especially tech and in the Cambridge area), great food and diversity, beaches that are short drives away, great public transportation, easy access by train or road to a lot of other places in the New England/NY area, plenty of outdoorsy activities etc.
And of course, good scenic weather (if you're into the New England weather) and a landscape that's mostly lush green and beautiful.
Re:Come on, Detroit isn't that bad. (Score:4, Informative)
Not 100% true. The problem with Boston and its greater area is age. The metro area was designed with nothing in mind. As a result a simple commute can turn into a nightmare if something goes wrong. there are not too many alternative routes once you get downtown because of the one-way streets that will exercise your patience to the point of no return. Also Boston is home to thousands of free-loading college students who make commutes on Friday and Saturday nights even more painful.
I lived many blocks away from Fenway and yet every game turned my community and traffic around it into a clusterfuck. I worked next to AT&T stadium in SF and the side effects associated with each game were nothing compared to what I've experienced in Boston.