Skype Billing Gone Haywire For Some Users 154
Cousin Scuzzy writes "This morning I awoke to 26 e-mail messages from Skype and PayPal notifying me of multiple payments for my Skype account that had been charged to my credit card and subsequently refunded. At first I suspected that this was a new wave of spam that had slipped through my defenses, but it quickly became apparent that they were legitimate messages. I then began to worry that my Skype account had been compromised. The first message from Skype thanked me for setting up their "Auto-Recharge" service which automatically purchases Skype credit when the balance falls below a certain amount. This was very suspicious, as I had never requested this service. Based on posts to Skype's forum, it now appears that there have been serious billing problems at Skype relating to Auto-Recharge for over a month. Although I believe that all unauthorized charges to my credit card have been refunded, it is worrisome that Skype, or anyone, would charge my account erroneously. Skype, for their part, has not yet e-mailed me an explanation or posted one online. This problem reinforces my aversion to automatic bill payment services that give companies the authority to draw money from my bank account at their discretion." For all the Skype users out there, have you experienced this? For what it's worth, the company's own response on the linked forum thread says that the problem is now solved.
Re:Yet you did it. (Score:5, Informative)
FTFS
No (Score:3, Informative)
For all the Skype users out there, have you experienced this?
Nope!
Re:Yet you did it. (Score:2, Informative)
I dont think legally theres any difference between taking money illigitimately WITH a payment system or without one.
Then you would be wrong. Taking money illegitimately without a payment system is intent to commit wire fraud and taking money illegitimately without a payment system could just be a billing error. Intent is important, especially when bringing criminal charges.
Re:Yet you did it. (Score:3, Informative)
But it looks like he gave it to Paypal, then gave his Paypal info to Skype.
And PayPal will automatically deduct money from your bank account when you set up a subscription unless if you configure it not to. I had then overdraft $100 from my account when I didn't kill off the auto renew.
Dreamhost (Score:3, Informative)
Bad idea. Very bad idea (Score:5, Informative)
And this is why you NEVER, NEVER give your bank account information to anyone, let alone PayPal (PayPal motto: screwing buyers AND sellers since 2002)
If you must use PayPal--and I concede that it's barely imaginable that there's something you just have to buy that you can only get online and that is only sold by a site that only takes PayPal--you link your account to a credit card. Then if PayPal screws you, you contest the charge and they can take it up with American Express or whoever.
Under no circumstances does any online business get my checking/savings account info. If they don't take credit cards, I'll find somewhere else to shop. The inability to block charges from creating an overdraft and the lack of consumer protection that banks give account holders make this something that no one should ever do. Combine those faults with the dangers inherent in a recurring charge system and it's a no-brainer: don't give PayPal (or anyone else, especially anyone with as bad a customer service reputation as they have) your bank account info.
There is a difference (Score:5, Informative)
If they take money from your credit card without you authorizing it, you can contact your credit card company and request a charge back. If you already have a payment plan, however, you have essentially pre-authorized payments, which makes getting the money back much more difficult.
Re:Nothing to worry about... (Score:3, Informative)
I'm not sure I agree...
I've had problems with credit card charges in the past (three times in the last six or so years) and because of the consumer protection laws that CC companies are forced to comply with, it was essentially painless to fix--leaving aside the time for a single phone call and filling out the snail mail form they sent. They aren't allowed to require you to pay fees or disputed amounts. If they're trying to stick you with this, you need to let your state AG know.
I reconcile my credit card statement with my budget at the end of every month (yes, every charge or cash payment goes into a spreadsheet, which I compare to the CC statement at month's end) and I've never had any "little charges" tacked on, either.
Of course, I understand that my experience might not be universal, but if you're really having those kinds of problems with your CC company I think the problem is that you need to switch to a credit provider that has better customer service. From personal experience I can recommend American Express (they've been great) or a credit union.
Re:Yet you did it. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Bad idea. Very bad idea (Score:4, Informative)
Except on accepting the terms with Paypal you waive your right to contest credit card charges against any charge made from Paypal.
http://www.paypalsucks.com/credit-card-waiver.shtml [paypalsucks.com]
Re:/. Genius Bar (Score:3, Informative)
Is this really difficult?
For some, yes it is.
the stateful tracking makes it work automatically
That's great that it works for you, but Nokia's 25 page troubleshooting guide suggests there are many problem users.
http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/2e470bc4-236d-48e2-bc96-977784811af8/Nokia_S60_VoIP_Implementation_Troubleshooting_Guide.html [nokia.com]
Very nice guide for generalized VOIP problems!
Re:Skype isn't known for being forthcoming... (Score:1, Informative)
Awesome you were modded "interesting"... except, you're not.
Gizmo5 only supports webcam on its windows client.
The OS X client is from 2008.
The linux client from 2007.
Neither support webcam. Awesome.
Agree-to-this! (Score:3, Informative)
A little over a year ago I moved from FL to MD and I had DirecTv. I moved for a job with short notice so my fiancee and I had to move in with her mother for a month until we found a place. The DirecTv followed us to MD for free, but when we moved to our condo there was a problem.
DirecTV doesn't state it online but when you move using their "Movers Connection" you've agreed to extend your service by 6 months, and you've agreed not to move again for those same 6 months. If you do move or cancel within those 6 months they charge you the full cost of your original move plus fees...and they charge your card automatically!
Like I said there was no notice online of such a stipulation, nor did the agent who set up my original move inform me of that criteria. My card was charged $600 4 days before my wedding putting me overdrawn and causing my rent to bounce...putting me down an additional $1500...and I had to pay for some things for the wedding. When I questioned DirecTV about the agreement they said there is no place to view it online, they dont have a document to send, but they assured me that I did, in fact, agree to some silly agreement by moving in the first place.
This story is relevant to the posting because of the automatic withdraw. If they billed me that is one thing, I could call them and work it out, but instead they automatically took money off of my default method of payment simply because it was there. How is this OK with people?! Eventually I got all of my money refunded and a full apology from DirecTV for the hassle...needless to say Im with Verizon FiOS now.
This whole thing burns me up. I think Penny Arcade summed up our collective frustration nicely here [penny-arcade.com]. I have been working on creating a wiki to translate user agreements to plain English so we can all get an easier glimpse at the crap we're agreeing to, and the "rights" we forfeit to our utilities etc. Furthermore the site will branch off into areas where those who are commonly disadvantaged can come together to take legal action against companies who blatantly violate their privacy (like Skype did in the post) or their right to know what they agreed to (like my DirecTV situation). Government is supposed to enforce what we the people deem morally just, yet it seems that whatever the government deems legal we all assume is moral...that doesn't make sense to me. Its about time we started revisiting how we're conducting ourselves in my opinion.
Re:Bad idea. Very bad idea (Score:2, Informative)
Skype's Billing and "Plans" need overhauls! (Score:4, Informative)
Then my account shut down. I was talking to a relative and the call dropped. I attempted to call back, Skype came up with an error message saying I needed to purchase "Skype Credits". Which from reading the plan, I knew I didn't need. I thought maybe it was a bug or lag, so I relogged Skype, dialed again, same problem. I get more curious and hit the Skype support forum.
A few searches showed people with a similar error. Except it's not an error, it's Skype bending customers over a barrel. Apparently, there is a hidden clause, and I do mean hidden cause it is NO WHERE in their Terms of Service or any policies they have online, that states any account signed up with the "Unlimited" calling plan has a limit of 6 hours of talk time a day. Now you're thinking "ok that sucks but it's still good for $2.95 a month, free long distance, just call back the next day." WRONG. If you exceed your 6 hour limit, which YOU have to monitor yourself, your account becomes null and void. You can't use it anymore. When the next month comes around, the next billing period if you are using more than per-month payment, they will reset all accounts and you can then again use your account.. So I spent $2.95, talked 6 hours, then my account was just void for 31 days. This was not stipulated anywhere on their website and even their forum moderators who help people with technical support stated "Skype is currently working on revising our ToS to include this 6 hour limitation.".
Now again I know what you're thinking, if they didn't tell you about a policy for a service they offer, how can they hold it against you? They do. They will NOT issue you a refund, they will NOT make any exception about the matter, hell they act like the user is supposed to be psychic and know this. Granted, they may have updated their information since January of this year but at the time there were hundreds of threads on their forums about this, dozens of people out money. I had to resort to buying two more additional accounts since my first one got closed, just to make sure I had enough talk time per day. Every 24 hours the "limit" is reset so if you talked for 5 hours 58 minutes on Monday, Tuesday at 5pm EST it is reset so you can use it another 6 hours.. So my two accounts gave me 12 hours just ya know, to get around their HOUDINI-like ToS..
Last I saw several people were considering a class action lawsuit about it on their forums. If that ever happens who knows, I mean yea I know someone will mod this down and be like "QQ more it's only $2.95". Sure, that's a small fee for free long distance in North America but when you buy something labeled as UNLIMITED ya know, ya don't expect a 6 hour LIMIT.
Skype + Paypal issues for me, too (Score:1, Informative)
Had a similar incident two weeks ago.
Signed up for skype via iphone app. Never used it after the initial sign up. Then, two weeks ago ( about a month after I had the account), I got the emails thanking me for giving skype a paypal, and then for buying two sets of $10 credits.
The paypal account wasnt mine, and it was succesfully charged and set to auto-recharge. Also, they put down my name as 'Claren Rosenhall', which was neither my name nor the name on the paypal account.
When I contacted Skype, they told me to be safer with my password...
I contacted them a second time, and they refunded one of hte charges to whoever's paypal account was hijacked.
I contacted them a third time, and they locked my account, and then refunded the other transaction.
I contacted them a fourth time, got access to my account, and saw that the auto-recharge IS STILL SETUP for whoever's paypal account was put on there.
I haven't bothered contacting skype or logging into the account since. Their ability to handle this sort of thing is just pathetic.