Abused IT Workers Ready To Quit 685
An anonymous reader writes to tell us that new research is suggesting as many as a quarter of all IT staff in small to medium businesses have suffered some sort of abuse and are looking for careers elsewhere (PDF). "The study also found that over a third have suffered from sleepless nights or headaches as a result of IT problems at work, while 59 percent spend between one and 10 hours a week working on IT systems outside normal hours. ... The biggest cause of stress among IT staff is problems arising from operational day-to-day tasks, the survey found. Another major cause came from loss of critical data, according to Connect."
Obviously... (Score:5, Insightful)
These 'small and midsize' businesses don't have the staff to hire a DBA, a sysadmin, a helpdesk guy -- you're it. You're the jack of all trades.
It's rather logical to think you're going to get abused, because the same person who is fixing SQL queries is now known to be the helpdesk guy, and unfortunately can't keep up with the work.
That said, I've been there. And working 80 hour weeks, I had enough, and moved to a large, massive corporation with good job deliniation. Not only do I learn more because I have the time, I work 40 hours a week (barely) and make far more money with better benefits.
Just a reminder folks, work to live, don't live to work. There is no such thing as a 'dream' job, because at the end of the day you'll always want more, best to find a job that allows you to live your life to the fullest and provides you a good salary as a bonus :)
Cheers and good luck to those out of work in '09, it's shaping up to be a tough year.
Re:It's not so bad (Score:5, Insightful)
As someone who migrated away from a direct IT job to an HR job that is tangentially IT related, allow me to say that I am far far happier now than when I was doing the death march for people who thought of their IT folk as "geeks" who lived for abuse and being taken advantage of.
And my mind still gets a work out, and I still get to keep my hand in the water. And, as an extra bonus, when I go home at night. I can actually enjoy tinkering on my own projects instead of feeling as if I'm just bringing 'work' home with me.
Yes, right now is a bad time to jump for some people. On the other hand, I also realize that as a group, those of us drawn to IT often wait too long before jumping. Don't wait for the perfect moment. Pick one and make it 'perfect'.
name of the game, sucka. (Score:5, Insightful)
Like the post office or public education...it never stops.
Unlike those examples, it never pauses. Face it guys...you are babysitting. Networks, servers, desktops, whatever... IT is babysitting. And this baby always needs sitting....
Instead of quitting in an "employers market"... try something like Gracie Jiu Jitsu... choking a motherfucker out makes me feel better after a day of IT BS.
On the bright side, we'll all be up shit creek when we use all the fossil fuels. At least your servers won't need babysitting anymore.
Re:It's not so bad (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess one of the pitfalls is that there still exists management who believes it's all about turning the right kind of switch and everything will get fixed auto-magically.
Part of the problem is Ego. (Score:2, Insightful)
While it is not the full problem. But the common Ego among IT workers exasperates the problem.
The I am smarter then everyone tone, you are stupid because you don't know to run the app nested in the menus of the start button. Without me this company will collapse. Type of ego.
A lot of the time working those extra hours are voluntary, but because you think it the collaps without you, you do the extra hours.
The I'm smarter then you, makes sure your boss doesn't feel bad about letting you go, or pushing you that much more.
We don't treat our selfs and others like humans, so why do expect other to treat us so.
Backups aren't all they're cut out to be (Score:5, Insightful)
And at the very end of TFA:
"Ten per cent of the companies surveyed said they had lost critical data through backup tape failures."
Is it just me, or does 10% seem like a huge loss rate?
/Test your backup
Stress, eh? (Score:5, Insightful)
The biggest cause of stress among IT staff is problems arising from operational day-to-day tasks
In other news, doctors get stressed by having to do clinicals, and retail workers get stressed out by daily customers.
Serious cause of IT stress (Score:5, Insightful)
I am glad I work with UNIX systems. (Score:3, Insightful)
1 to troll in 2 seconds...
Honestly I think this acceptance of things going wrong and "thats just the way IT is" belongs in the Windows world.
I have personally quit 2 jobs in the past because I was asked to work with Microsoft products.
User friendly and sysadmin friendly are two different things.
Re:name of the game, sucka. (Score:5, Insightful)
write-only backups (Score:5, Insightful)
While I don't condone abusing the incompetent, we have been doing our own source code repository backups in engineering, since IT admitted that they cannot recover the repository from backups. We can't recover the repository either, since IT "owns" it, nor are we permitted to use an alternative, but we do incremental and full backups regularly of a "latest" sandbox, and at each release tag, so we can reconstruct the data set.
We have a Linux development environment, but those systems are hobbled by a Windows-centric IT shop that has firewalls blocking access to Google from non-Windows systems and Linux-centric forums everywhere.
This level of incompetence is typical of IT at many small-to-medium (once, even large) places I have worked. Mordac(s), the preventer(s) of information services, work(s) at too many places, and I wouldn't miss them if they all quit and got jobs where they could be useful.
Re:name of the game, sucka. (Score:5, Insightful)
I never considered IT to include Development/Programming. Most Universities seem to agree, as there are CS programs and CIT/CIS programs.
The Dev's are a step above the IT guys, IMHO. I am saying this as an IT guy, btw.
Re:That sucks but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Part of the problem is Ego. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sorry, but I am smarter than most of the people I work with. Because not only do I know how to do my job, I often times have to tell them how to do THEIR job. I have to know how to do their jobs, well enough to tell them how computers help them in their job, and to help them learn how to use computers to do their jobs.
I may not know all the details, and peculiarities of their job, but I know what their job is, and how to do it.
I'm fully convinced that I could actually "do" their job (well, most peoples jobs), should they get hit by a car. Or at least do a passable job of faking it (which I'm also convinced that many of them do anyway).
And that isn't ego either. I don't want to do their job. I would hate it. And often times, pays a lot less than what I make.
definitely agree (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a computer science academic, and so our department at one point got the brilliant idea that they could save money by greatly reducing the IT staff. After all, computer scientists have PhDs in Computer Stuff, so can run all their own IT, right? It turns out not really---and even when they can, it'd be a full-time job to do so, and they already have other full-time jobs (like writing papers and research grants and teaching classes and supervising grad students).
What's kept the whole thing running at all is that the reduced staff has two really excellent people who manage to pull things together, both of whom are much much better at their jobs than any numbers of CS PhDs would be at that job, because being a top-quality IT staff member and being a top-quality CS researcher just aren't the same job.
I suppose the change has sort of increased the respect the IT people around here get though: you definitely notice all the stuff that used to Just Work after the IT staff gets canned.
Re:It's not so bad (Score:1, Insightful)
I've seen quite a few very inefficient IT departments. More often than not, it is the clueless manager or clueless manger just above IT that was the source [1].
Not that there are not clueless workers but they either get a clue or get the boot if the manager isn't clueless.
[1] unrealistic goals with the budget like we want a DR site but then refuse to pay for bandwidth and resources to actually have a usable DR site etc...
Re:It's not so bad (Score:5, Insightful)
In *every* Job work can be endless. In my experience (as a scientist) good management can break the endless task into sub-tasks which are doable in a reasonable time, while bad management will do the opposite. That is, shifting the responsibility for the schedule of the whole project to the lower levels. This is *extremely* stupid. If you manage a project, it is your responsibility to stay within costs, time, and promised goals. Over-hours count as costs. If not directly, then indirectly because it may drive your best workers away. Or the person who worked 40hours overtime/week the last year (good luck with replacing him/her).
Other reasons i have seen for stress and frustration: bad information system infrastructure. For example everybody handle backups himself. That is plainly stupid. I have worked as sysadmin for a long time. And there are few things i very willingly leave to be done by experts, and one of them is backup/archiving (the other one is the mailserver...). Distributing these functions makes sese fro mthe viewpoint of your boss (since assuming you may go doe not leave them woth their pants down. They at least can sent you a mail, and from your viewpoint (you dont take additional stress if things go wrong just wo restore your capability to retrieve backups needed for recovery or e-mail to communicate). I figured that accepting certain troubles is sometimes worth it if you reduce the responsibility of a single person/admin/programmer. This includes bad code.
Last but not least: If you are responsible you have to live with the coworkers/programmers you are given. If you have a person writing not so fancy code, let him/her work in a productive way (e.g. i had a coworker who wrote code i would call uninspired at best, and a if-then-else hell at worst, but well documented - but there where tasks when exactly that was needed - e.g. for writing instrument drivers). It is not good to force newbies in OOP to design a base class and the interfaces in a framework. This will cause additional night-shifts (and headache to everybody).
too bad (Score:1, Insightful)
Boo fuckin' hoo.
Get real, this is no different than most fields.
Re:That sucks but... (Score:3, Insightful)
What I do in such situations is to record my unpaid hours, and then at the end of the year when the workload slows down, take off that number of hours. So I might get paid 40 hour salary, but only work 19 hours that final week before Christmas, due to the fact I had 21 hours of unpaid work back in August.
BTW if you are getting paid $80,000 salary a year, but your dumb boss has you working 80 hours a week, that means you're only getting $20 an hour. You'd be better off becoming a factory worker or truck driver where you can earn $25-30 an hour, and the job is easier.
Reactive vs. Proactive (Score:5, Insightful)
I find a lot of folks in the IT trenches tend to be reactive rather than proactive.
They seem to enjoy being the "goto" guy that saves the day by resurrecting the server with the melty motherboard and toasted power supply while hundreds of users anxiously sit by their desks in breathless anticipation. Merely, switching to a failover server would never be as rewarding.
They regale in bragging to their co-workers and more importantly, their bosses about how many hours they spent rebuilding databases and applying emergency kernel patches at 3 am.
Face it, what kind of attention do you get when your servers never fail? When you never lose a database?
Nothing.
Re:Physical abuse? (Score:3, Insightful)
If someone did that to me, my first call would be the police, and my second call would be a lawyer. Physical assualt is NEVR acceptable, and the person who gave me the black eye would be paying the price for his stupidity.
Yup yup yup (Score:5, Insightful)
And IT is still the industry that refuses any form of unionization. Everybody is too smart and too privliged because of the technicality of what they do to see the benefits of working together to make things better for us.
And before you start flaming, think where you would be if you were actually on your own, if you had to code your own OS, compiler, library and every other piece of software you use in your job. Yeah, but you are a lone wolf. Keep it up IT
Re:Obviously... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Responsibility and time management (Score:3, Insightful)
Cars are far more reliable. I drove my Dodge Shadow 340,000 miles which is the equivalent of 7000 hours operational time, and I can count on one hand how many problems I had with it. (Brake rotor failure, spark plug failure, leaky radiator, failed emissions, and that's it.)
In contrast computers seem to have a problem every 50 hours (once a week) of usage. That's why people get frustrated because they think a computer should be more like a car with 1500 hours between breakdowns (once a year).
Re:It's not so bad (Score:4, Insightful)
Speaking of ego, as one who has left IT... (Score:4, Insightful)
Man are you clueless.......
Your comments reek of a know-it-all ego. First off you speak like all in IT have an ego. Farthest from the truth.
I will refute your anecdotal evidence with some anecdotal evidence of my own.
I used to be in IT. Specifically, I was a programmer. It felt natural and fun and really stroked my own inherent nerdiness. (Additionally, it was a way to insulate myself from having to be in uncomfortable social situations, but that's not really germane to the subject at hand...)
I left IT last March and have since been in sales. Now I spend much of my day talking to strangers on the phone. In other words, I am doing cold-calling. How am I doing? Well, the web app I wrote that tracks the results of my calls tells me that I have made 4063 calls since then with 703 conversation with "decision makers". Additionally, I have only had one person hang up on me.
It is a very, very, very different world here in sales. It's touchy feely, talky, and decidedly NON geeky. Well, there is a slight geeky side to it, but it's psychological and thus a "soft science". So I don't consider it to be true geek.
Where is this going? Well, since I'm doing b2b and providing a technological service, I occasionally run into business owners who tell me, "Our IT department handles that, you need to talk to them." I have to tell you, that's poison to my ears when I hear that. Why? It's because IT workers view me unconditionally as some stupid uppity sales weasel who knows nothing about technology and deserves to be looked down upon. I think this is partly due to the fact that by adopting my service I would be depriving them of a job, but moreso because they view themselves as the master of their domain and don't like to be educated.
And, honestly, I empathize with them. If I were in their shoes, I would view me as a stupid sales weasel. This is partly because I deliberately sound stupid on the phone (it puts business owners at ease -- there's that "touchy feely" stuff), but moreso because being smart and competant is very much part of IT culture. I remember feeling like I had to compete against all the other IT workers in my job. My brain power was my currency and my dick size in the IT world. I haven't ever worked an IT job that wasn't like that. You have to be able to build up a defensive barrier to survive in that kind of environment -- where all of your peers are going to try to show you up with their brain. You have to be ready to show them that they're wrong and know nothing.
In fact, isn't that what you did to the Parent by telling him, in essence, "You know nothing of what you speak, moron!"?
I also talked to my sister about this, since she works doing sales for web services in the UK. She shares my opinion, calling IT workers "smug" and "condescending". And she's right. I think IT workers and trained to be that way by their peers. If they have to be ready to defend themselves against their peers, how much respect do you expect them to have for some slimy sales weasel who makes much more money than they do and never has to think about recursion or race conditions?
But it still sucks when I have talk to an IT worker the phone.
I'll also add that my many phone conversations have allowed me to gain several levels in Wetware Hacking, which is fun.
Re:Obviously... (Score:1, Insightful)
Your choices are
a) Grin and bear it, or
b) Line up another job then quit.
Pointing out the abuse is guaranteed to do nothing but get you labelled not-a-team-player, and first for the chopping block.
Re:Obviously... (Score:4, Insightful)
Because working longer has rapidly diminishing returns, even going negative after a certain point. If you wondering how returns can go negative, it is pretty simply. Stress, exhaustion and simply not caring are negative symptoms that appear with longer work hours or "hostile" environments.
You're still missing the point (Score:3, Insightful)
I work in a medium sized business, where I am the only full time IT staff. And your generalizations are still way off.
I'll grant you that there are a few that act that way, and they do tend to get the lion's share of the spotlight, but most of us enjoy the unique challenges the small/med sized business presents. And yes, I have worked as part of the large, mammoth organization as well.
I enjoy the variety you get from doing a little bit of everything. I enjoy having to learn about new technology and how it applies to us. I get to plan out our over-arching IT plans, and be in the trenches implementing it. I enjoy teaching users how to use the technology given them to improve their own working abilities.
What I don't enjoy are the small but very vocal handful of users who allow their frustration at their inability to understand some bit of technology to carry over to an immediate and irrational frustration at me. Luckily, I view these, too, as another challenge, though a more long-term one than most, and have managed to convert a number of them into, if not eager, at least willing learner.
Now, I'm not going to say right off the bat that you fit that category; I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you've just been exposed to the minority IT group mentioned above. But how about you cut the rest of us hard-working stiffs a break, ok?
For the record, most users I support WANT me to be able to read their e-mail, to pull up what their current password is, and are surprised when I state that, for security and auditing purposes, I can't do that.
Re:Reactive vs. Proactive (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Part of the problem is Ego. (Score:1, Insightful)
IT is about getting stuff done, if you can't do it right the computer won't run, nothing personal, you just can't hack it, literally.
Management is all about politics and keeping smarter people away from you so you look better, nothing gets done.
Of course you could still fire him, but if hes right every thing will fall apart because of YOUR ego.
Sometimes you can't say no. (Score:5, Insightful)
You can't always say no.
I literally was up until 3:30am last night. During that day our SAN's SPS went offline and as a result, write cache was disabled on our SAN. This affected our file server and it would lock up, resulting in users locking up.
So I had to stay up late with Dell trying to get it fixed. What would have happened if I had said no? I would have to deal with all the problems in the morning, and listen to it from over 100 users.
Sometimes you just can't say no. But to make matters worse, once you give your boss the notion that you will work outside of business hours, they will expect you to do it more.
Much like getting a business phone...When I first hit the industry, I thought getting a work phone would be awesome!...Now? Because I checked my email so much outside of work, they expect a response out of me when they send an email.
Re:Part of the problem is Ego. (Score:4, Insightful)
None of these jobs explicitly requires intelligence. None of them require the ability to problem-solve, to creatively find solutions to seemingly impossible problems, to make things do things they aren't meant to do.
While I only spent a few years in IT, before moving into the job-security and summers-off of education, I realized this quite well. I also had co-workers who realized this, and would put in obscene hours "keeping the company afloat". I did not. Why? Because while I was smarter than a lot of my co-workers, I also realized that I would see NO benefit from busting my ass doing over-time work. There would be no promotion, no additional job security, no additional pay, no accolades from the higher-ups in the business.
I was pretty glad that this had been my attitude when lay-offs came, because they were pointy-haired-boss style. Our corporate overlord did random lay-offs. RANDOM! Not need-based, not performance-based, not cost-benefit-analysis-based. RANDOM! People who had been working there 2 weeks to 15 years got laid off in a mass purging, at RANDOM! Had I been busting my ass up until I got that pink slip, I would have been pissed. As were a couple of the account executives who had been putting in serious OT to save "important" accounts.
IT gets shat upon because IT lets it happen. Mix Ego with poor social skills, no backbone, and a fear of the uncertain, and it's all but certain that you'll get trod upon.
Saying "Fuck NO!" is as likely to get you fired/laid off as not saying anything at all. And it's far more satisfying.
Re:Part of the problem is Ego. (Score:1, Insightful)
A lot of the time working those extra hours are voluntary, but because you think it the collaps without you, you do the extra hours.
I agree with this part of your post, but I don't think it's restricted to IT people. Some people essentially overwork themselves because they like being the badass that's so good at his job that he's single-handedly keeping the whole company afloat. They love to save the day when a crisis pops up.
Now you might ask, "what's wrong with that?" It's far from the worst thing to take pride in, but the problem is that people who want to be "that guy" also tend to get so wrapped up in dealing with crises that they let everything else slide, and then nothing gets addressed until it becomes a crisis. Of course, if you deal with a problem after it has already become a crisis, it's going to be a lot more stressful and probably take a lot more work.
One of my first bosses convinced me of this. He always used to say, "Don't be a cowboy," and what he meant was, don't always run off half-cocked dealing with every little problem whenever it pops up, relying on your own talents to get you through, and then taking breaks whenever there's not an immediate problem staring you in the face. It's better to develop a system, develop procedures, set priorities, make plans, plan ahead, set a steady pace, and deal with problems before they become problems. It's more glamorous to ride in and save the day when everyone is worried about a problem, but it'll be a lot less work if you never let there be a problem in the first place.
On the other hand, lots of people are just overworked.
Re:So is mine.. In IT (Score:3, Insightful)
So why not just ignore him and get on with the job? If he complains then ask what else to do.
Re:It's not so bad (Score:5, Insightful)
Which is part of the damn problem. The manager expects you to do work outside of work.
In any other job it's unthinkable, but because of the long standing tradition of putting in more hours then expected IT workers get screwed.
Re:Reactive vs. Proactive (Score:5, Insightful)
Face it, what kind of attention do you get when your servers never fail? When you never lose a database?
Actually, you get asked to justify your existance in the company since "you never seem to be doing anything".
There is nothing more professionally satisfying than having a company tell you they're replacing you with a (generally Indian) Outsourcing firm (having been advised to do so by HR), for 2 reasons:
1. Things have been going so well they don't think they have any IT "problems" to fix.
2. They will be calling you (or if they're completely without humility, another firm) once they realise how bad things can be without someone who knows what their doing at the helm.
Good IT people "fix" problems. Great IT people prevent them from happening at the first place.
I think the biggest reason most IT people are abused is because they care too much.
When I spoke to a Psychiatrist how he dealt with having everyone tell him their personal problems his response was "I only care when I'm being paid for it".
Probably the best piece of advice I've heard from someone in the Mental Health industry.
Re:Obviously... (Score:3, Insightful)
I work for a small company because when my CEO behaves like a complete fucktard, I can actually walk straight into his office and tell him that... he's behaving like a complete fucktard.
I used to work for a company with 120k employees. I could not do that, and it was frustrating as hell.
There are loads of other benefits/freedoms in similar vein.
Re:It's not so bad (Score:1, Insightful)
In *every* Job work can be endless.
After 25 years in IT, I would like to take a job at Trader Joe's and push shopping carts around the lot for 8 hours. Yeah, I'm serious, it's endless work too, but in a much more satisfying way.
My bosses over the years have done what I was afraid they would do, kill my favorite job.
Re:It's not so bad (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:name of the game, sucka. (Score:3, Insightful)
The large majority of all development is maintenance.
Re:Sometimes you can't say no. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It's not so bad (Score:5, Insightful)
Saying no is key to keeping your sanity.
And saying "no" is not something that geeks enjoy, because it takes a certain ability to withstand emotional games that geeks aren't good at. A common reason that geeks (including me) are attracted to scientific and technical endeavors is that we're socially a bit obtuse and aren't good at getting other people to appreciate us. We yearn for objective and scrupulously fair evaluation. We don't want to argue about our performance; we want it to speak for ourselves. It's even better to be alone with the computer: the computer is scrupulously fair.
We try to excuse ourselves from normal social maneuvering and rely entirely on our intelligence, competence, and ultimately, our good work. Unfortunately, that doesn't work when dealing with people who are angry, fearful, and willing to trample other people. And who isn't willing to trample on the lowly IT geek? Who isn't angry and fearful in an IT crisis?
When a geek encounters aggression, unfair accusations, and outrageous demands, his response to the social stress is to withdraw (leaving the accusations unchallenged) and fall back on his technical skills (by working overtime to fix the problem.)
The geek might try to stick up for himself by using facts and logic, but his aggressor will just become more aggressive and insulting. The aggressor understands the audience (bystanders and management) better than the geek and is able to snow them with indignation and misrepresentation, leaving the geek feeling shamed, embarrassed, and sorry that he stuck up for himself. What is his refuge? Demonstrating his ability with a scrupulously fair audience: the computer. So he works overtime to fix things for the guy who just abused him.
I've never worked an IT job, but I've experienced this as a software developer for a very small company. I no longer work there, and they still pay me a retainer and frequent consulting fees because they haven't managed to entirely replace me :-) Line up a better job and QUIT! Easier said than done, I know. Good luck to everyone stuck in that position. Read a few books like this one [amazon.com], work on sticking up for yourself, and keep it cool.
Re:Small companies rock. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I am glad I work with UNIX systems. (Score:3, Insightful)
It's really not that hard. Granted, Exchange is a bit of a beast to install and manage initially, but once everything is set up and the other servers know each other it works pretty smoothy. Exchange 2007 has some pretty cool features like integration with PABX phone systems that you can't get anywhere else.
As far as Windows desktops go, group policy objects with Windows XP SP2 (or even SP1) and later works out pretty well. For PCs off the domain it gets a little bit tricky for "hard" problems like virus infections, but with a copy of VNC and the end user restarting the PC over the phone when VNC dies you can generally nut out the worst virus infection.
All up it scales pretty well, we have 6,000 PCs (most on a domain, a handful of laptops and others not), a similar number of mailboxes and we manage IT1 (Helpdesk) stuff with 6 people and IT2 (Systems) with 5.
I've also heard horror stories of the number of Active Directory objects companies like Rio Tinto and BHP Billiton have, and it's about 1 million AD user objects across 500 domain controllers with a lot of administration managed automatically by group policy.
FYI - 1 million across 500 DC's is anecdotal. I can't confirm this.
Re:It's not so bad (Score:1, Insightful)
Hey, it's so easy even kids can do it. Why just the other day I wrote a program that printed "Hello, World!". How much harder can an ERP system integrated with payroll be?
All you have to do is....
Re:Obviously... (Score:3, Insightful)
+ one .... agreed
have your nuts drop and stand up.
I quit from places where I was the 5-in-1 person and that was a chaos even though i gave them a 1 month notice. All the "ajjajj what do we do" calls....
Here is an other tip: learn some programming and take a programmer's job.
I program and that is a lot better schedule most of the time. I worked all holidays though because of an asshole colleague, but at least in Costa Rica that means double pay......
If they need to call you: demand a higher hourly late for every call..... charged 30 or 60 minute minimums.
They will do one of the other (if you are valuable)
1. pay you after the calls
2. hire someone else to take the calls, and call you only in emergencies (#1).....
If you are not valuable they hire an other idiot and fire you. In that case do not answer the phone for the "OMG what do we do" call..
Re:It's not so bad (Score:3, Insightful)
If the network or all the computers are down then people can not get their work doen and big $$$ are lost very quickly. Deadlines can not be changed nor can customers waiting for their services or products.
I.T. needs to sell themselves more and put stability as a #1 priority. Alot of times employers are cheap or expect everything to be always perfect.
Ask them how much money do they lose if they can't complete something for a customer because they didn't want to pay for a redundant server?
People are clueless but other professions can convince more people about their importance and role within hte organization.
Re:I bet you are! (Score:4, Insightful)
And being in HR, the "babes" know the sexual harassment policy word-for-word
Sure, until you get them next door to the bar an get a couple of drinks into them. Then ... not so much. A great many people present a different personality at work than away from work, and guess where the people who were partying when us geeks were studying ended up?
Re:It's not so bad (Score:4, Insightful)
I almost always clock over 40 hours PLUS the off-hours time I spend working in my head on problems at work.
My wife caught me logging on a couple of weeks ago at three in the morning -- I just REALLY wanted to check ONE MORE LITTLE THING.
My boss doesn't worry about giving me work -- he worries about keeping people out of my hair so I can be more productive.
Being a sysadmin is DEMANDING, HARD and often THANKLESS. You either love it and live it -- or you're better off going elsewhere. There's great money to be made if you go the distance, but that's not going to be enough if you don't love this job.
Thankfully, I DO love this work! The stats in the article about hours worked and losing sleep -- I was REALLY surprised the numbers were that low. It's all worth it, though, when you do the impossible -- even if very few people at your office realize it.
Comment removed (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:It's not so bad (Score:3, Insightful)
IT co-workers cause the stress (Score:3, Insightful)
In my 2 IT jobs over the last 10 years, it has been my experience that the majority of my stress on the job, is caused by incompetent co-workers.
The people that hire IT/CS staff rarely understand that continuing education is what differentiates great IT staff from poor IT staff. The people that hire IT/CS sometimes having a good understanding of the 'buzzwords' or 'skillsets' required for a particular job, but do not understand how rapidly IT changes, and how important it is to hire people that are self-motivated learners.
Most of my major problems and frustrations as a developer/sys analyst, comes from working with people that have just enough knowledge to complete projects in their area, but not enough motivation or additional knowledge to complete their projects in a way that eases transitions over time.
As time goes on, the systems become more and more tangled and difficult to work with, to the point that any new project declared by management is 10x harder than it needs to be.
I consider management part of the "co-worker" set also. Most managers of IT sub-departments (manager of network services, manager of data center, etc..) have enough knowledge to direct their employees fairly well in their own little kingdom, but rarely have an understanding of the "big picture" as it comes to the IT services as a whole.
The net result of these little ignorant "kingdoms" inside an IT department, is a very frustrated worker trying to implement projects which are often much more difficult because of conflicting priorities and resource allocation.
One of the stereotypes of IT/CS work, is that it is too hard for the average person to understand: it is 'mysterious'. This view tends to reinforce the idea that it is OK to not explain your IT actions, and just 'fix the problem'. Numerous uncoordinated 'fixes' often results in project delays and failures.
To sum up:
While I haven't yet seen an 'in production' way to make sure that the right staff are hired, and I have seen a few ways that address the issues of managers communicating, and ways to unveil the natural secret-like way in which a lot of IT work is accomplished.
The first a quick 15 minute "who's doing what next week" type meeting. Everyone in IT, as well as super users of all the systems, meets on a friday afternoon and just rapidly spills out what is going on. Standing meeting to keep it fast. Just a quick mention of the DETAILS of your work. Whether or not everyone understands what you say is irrelevant. The major purpose being to throw everything in IT out in the air and see if anyone else sees a problem with it.
The second helpful thing I've seen is to have a group of USERS, not IT staff, help direct the priority of projects. IT managers have to present their projects and justifications for those projects, and the users decide what is most important. You'd be surprised how well that works to bridge the gap between IT and its user base. Oftentimes, a user/superuser of your systems can be frustrated by a mysterious network slowdown, a service outage, or or or... Keeping them in the loop takes that frustration away, which keeps it off your day to day IT workers.
And the last good thing I've seen is to make sure that IT has meetings that span departments. Your desktop staff, helpdesk, developers, server admins, etc.. should all be meeting together to just 'shoot the shit' every so often. It is amazing to see what could have been big problems adverted by having a no agenda cross department meeting every couple weeks.
At any rate, none of the above applies to small IT teams, but it has, and is working, for our larger 100+ IT staff at the institution that I'm working for.
Re:They're Called Masochists (Score:1, Insightful)
Aha! That's where you differ.
Re:They're Called Masochists (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:It's not so bad (Score:3, Insightful)
do you really expect others to work more than 40 hours/week, even if their contract is for 40? i love my job, but i also have a life. that's why my contract is 36 hours a week. if there's a good reason then i don't mind working more for a while, but it should not be structural.
usually, overtime is the consequence of bad planning or insufficient resources.
Re:Obviously... (Score:3, Insightful)
I did this one time 20 years ago.
They gave me 4 hours off on a friday after working 72+ hour weeks for 6 weeks (and making ME go in for a full day sunday but not the female and then making ME come in for the early meeting monday- so no slack because I had to work sunday when it was "too dangerous for a girl to work alone" even tho she got the same pay).
Since then I've gotten down the art of "graceful failure".
You maintain a great attitude, but simply can't manage to meet unreasonable demands.
Most of the reason people are fired is because some dipshit above you doesn't like your attitude.
Extremely competent assholes are fired left and right, being just ever so mildly incompetent means they choose to give the shitty important job to one of the other guys-- and even got me booted up into management with more pay and unbelievable amounts of freedom.
You have to be able to distinguish between *real* emergencies and successfully be heroic on a couple up front but if the real reason for the problem is
1) insufficient funding.
2) insufficient staffing.
3) unbelievably stupid arbitrary schedule some shithead upstairs set to make an arbitrary date on the calendar because "we always MEET our commitments!!!!" (but it is YOU not HIM or HER that is working saturday morning at 5am to meet the shitty deadline- he or she is yukking it up having drinks with clients and getting a big bonus after she or he "met the deadline".
Then let it fall.
I have seen extremely competent people who are honest get fired (or worse- put in an office doing *nothing* -- i.e. the "white room" punishment which gets you to quit so you don't get unemployment benefits).
Screw them- especially when you are underpaid and the last person left.
Re:I bet you are! (Score:1, Insightful)
Nobody "works" in HR. I have worked for a number of companies and the most useless people in the company are in HR.
Re:It's not so bad (Score:5, Insightful)
What I can't understand is how these long-hours heroes can claim honestly that their mind is still functioning at full capacity after all that time.
Some people claim long hours when actually they are chatterboxes - standing around at the water cooler talking nonsense or spouting verbal diarrhea on the phone or on meetings and having to come in on Saturday to finish their work.
I am contracted to do 7.5 hour days, 5 days a week. I have worked genuine very insane hours in the past (14 hours for 8 weeks) and it nearly killed me. It was a real struggle after about 9 hours to keep my brain focused on the task.
I've also worked at an industrial site where they limited the number of hours you could work in a certain period, because the manager's best friend had been a hero once and worked something stupid like 23 hours non-stop and got himself killed driving home when he fell asleep.
Having to work long hours is a failure in the system. If it's not you, it's management's failure to plan or having unrealistic expectations from the staff. It's down right inhumane and uncivilised.
It produces ill, bitter and twisted people, poor quality work, and poor company performance.
Re:so check your egos and get a Union already (Score:3, Insightful)
Let me start off by saying, I support the idea of IT unions.
Here's the catch: IT isn't a typical blue-collar job. The job requirements are much broader and poorly defined than any manufacturing job.
Here's my IT union nightmare: You want to set up a new computer at someone's desk. The first guy drops off the PC. He's there because the others aren't allowed to lift heavy objects. Then you get a Computer Technician I to come out and cable the thing up. He plugs in most of the stuff local to the computer, but anything that plugs into the wall is for another guy. First you have to have an Electrician come out and plug it in, and then a Network Technician I come out to plug in the network cable. We wouldn't want the Computer Technician to start screwing up the delineated responsibilities, would we? And if you want that PC set up on time, you better have filed the request forms several days in advance so all these guys could be coordinated to show up. What, he accepted the job and is starting tomorrow? Good luck.
This example is not an exaggeration. I've seen this kind of stuff happen *all the time* and to way more ridiculous degrees in industrial construction. The best I've seen yet is where several hundred tons of equipment were disconnected, loaded up on trucks and hauled offsite so that the control panels could be opened up and have 5 minutes of rewiring done, because that was determined to be faster and cheaper than the number of union guys that we'd have had to bring in to do it for us.
And that's for traditional union-type jobs, where a clear delineation can be made.
As an IT guy, I'm expected to handle a huge number of roles. Every sysadmin at times gets to be a hardware engineer, network administrator, programmer, electrician, plumber, HVAC specialist, technical writer, QA tech, and psychologist.
As a network admin, I've had my switches blow a blade at 3 in the morning. You can't reasonably make desktop switches redundant, and even the best brand name gear sometimes just blows up. So there's a choice: Either I go in at 3 AM and swap the blade, or 48 people are going to find themselves without net in the morning while I do it then.
Even for a desktop tech who doesn't have to deal with this, it's nice to simply be able to work an extra hour when you're on a roll with something, and not have to pick it back up in the morning.
I'm totally fine with off-hours work like this, as long as it's the normal, unpreventable stuff that happens when working with technology, or reasonable flex time usage. I always take off time later in the week as compensation. It's clearly different from being systematically exploited to milk me for extra work.
And I think that's why IT people recoil from the idea of IT unions. I would *hate* this job if I had to squabble about job responsibilities and hours all the time the way that I've seen other unions do. It'd make me unbearably inefficient. I don't think it *has* to be this way, but if we ever unionize, these things have to be taken into account, or we'll have a disaster.
Re:It's not so bad (Score:1, Insightful)
oh I got that shit when I tried to explain why the internet wasnt working. This lady wet around telling people I said I didnt know what I was doing or talking about. Then told my boss I gave her some "gobbledy-gook" about the connection. All because she couldn't fathom that it wasnt somehow the IT department's fault, but an outside source she had no power to attack.
However, I just ignored her crap and continued to do my job for the rest of the office who understood.
The trick is, you don't let them grill you or get to you. You just look at them, and then continue doing your job. You make those abusive people look like complete and utter assholes to the rest of the people.
Luckily the reasonable people outweigh the unreasonable people at my work. They actually don't like it when we work super late hours, one, they have to pay more, two, the upper management are all in healthcare and know it's not healthy and safe to do. Our department finished a big cabling job in a new office, however since then, things have been slow. sucks because I like working and getting the money, but the light work load is a break from when things get serious.
The article makes me laugh because basically, the people ready to quit are the weak people who got into IT not for the passion of solving problems (which is what it's all about) but for the money.
These people realized that IT isnt some cushy pencil pusher job where you sit at a computer all day or chill in a big server room doing nothing. In fact, IT can be quite a physical job that requires a LOT of physical and mental strain. But what makes it worth it is that you solved a problem, and all that hard work pays off in a nice fat paycheck.
you don't get into a profession to make money, you get into a profession to make money doing what you like doing.