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Comments: 455 +-   Experts Say To Switch Browsers In Light of IE Vulnerability on Tuesday December 16 2008, @08:52AM

Posted by timothy on Tuesday December 16 2008, @08:52AM
from the here's-my-number-if-the-place-burns-down dept.
security
bug
msie
internet
It appears that the exploit in IE briefly mentioned a few days ago is causing a serious reaction: SteveAU writes "Microsoft has begun flooding media outlets with information advising users to switch to an alternate browser while a serious security flaw is being patched. The flaw, which affects all versions of Microsoft Internet Explorer, is manifested via malware and has infected over 6,000 sites thus far. Microsoft states: 'The vulnerability exists as an invalid pointer reference in the data-binding function of Internet Explorer. When data binding is enabled (which is the default state), it is possible under certain conditions for an object to be released without updating the array length, leaving the potential to access the deleted object's memory space. This can cause Internet Explorer to exit unexpectedly, in a state that is exploitable.'" According to the BBC report, though, Microsoft itself is only asking that users be "vigilant while it investigated and prepared an emergency patch"; it's outside experts who say to dump IE (at least for now).

Update: 12/16 21:11 GMT by KD : Microsoft will issue an emergency critical update for IE tomorrow.
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  • by elronxenu (117773) on Tuesday December 16 2008, @08:54AM (#26131825) Homepage

    Water still wet.

    Pope still Catholic.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 16 2008, @09:11AM (#26131993)

      and chairs still fly

    • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 16 2008, @09:19AM (#26132081)
      last time I checked, *my* pope was orthodox. or to be more precise, Pope and Patriarch of All Africa on the Holy Orthodox and Apostolic Throne of Saint Mark the Evangelist and Holy Apostle.

      happy flamebait!
      • by Chris Mattern (191822) on Tuesday December 16 2008, @10:49AM (#26133121)

        last time I checked, *my* pope was orthodox. or to be more precise, Pope and Patriarch of All Africa on the Holy Orthodox and Apostolic Throne of Saint Mark the Evangelist and Holy Apostle.

        Otherwise known as "Leroy".

    • another OS (Score:4, Interesting)

      by TheMeuge (645043) on Tuesday December 16 2008, @09:22AM (#26132131) Homepage

      Next week's news: "Microsoft experts" advise users to switch to temporarily switch to a different OS, as they prepare to roll out Windows 7... ... jokes aside I haven't been THAT peeved with Vista. The interface is awkward, file transfers are dramatically slower than Ubuntu, and downloading a file over the internet invokes a 20 second freeze in Firefox. Other than that, it seems more stable than XP, and is responsive enough on my recently upgraded desktop.

      It has been relegated to a game console status though, at least for me.

        • Re:another OS (Score:4, Insightful)

          by theaveng (1243528) on Tuesday December 16 2008, @10:05AM (#26132681)

          "PEBKAC - problem existing between keyboard and chair".

          Ahhh okay. I don't see how Firefox freezing for twenty seconds is a problem caused by the user. Why do you blame the user and not the programmers?

    • Re:In other news ... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Pollardito (781263) on Tuesday December 16 2008, @10:41AM (#26133045)
      that's all news that is true, this article is not actually true:

      Said [Trend Micro's] Mr Ferguson: "If users can find an alternative browser, then that's good mitigation against the threat."

      But Microsoft counselled against taking such action.

      "I cannot recommend people switch due to this one flaw," said John Curran, head of Microsoft UK's Windows group.

      He added: "We're trying to get this resolved as soon as possible.

      so it's not actually Microsoft that's suggesting that people switch browsers, Microsoft has only "urged people to be vigilant while it investigated and prepared an emergency patch to resolve it."

      • by ConceptJunkie (24823) on Tuesday December 16 2008, @12:46PM (#26134637) Homepage Journal

        Which is what Microsoft always says: You're gonna get screwed if you use our crappy browser, but at least we warned you.

        No software is perfect, and everything has security flaws, but it seems to me, even 8 years after Microsoft (claimed they) took a serious position on security, they still seem to have an order of magnitude more problems than everyone else. Yeah, I know, they're the biggest target, but for crying out loud, Google wrote chrome from scratch* in less time than IE7 was in beta (or if not, it wasn't too far off) and came up with a browser that blows away IE in every single way except the number of desktops that have it installed.

        Microsoft is at the point where they can do little but admit that there's nothing constructive they can do any more. It's been obvious for years to people in the know, but they've reached a point of diminishing returns: It obviously takes more effort to keep their bloated corpse of an operating system (and its 10-years-out-of-date browser) just working and free of 0-day exploits (leave alone catching up with the competition) than it would be to start over like Apple did with OSX.

        How much longer will it take for MS to wake up? When the amount of effort needed for them to keep Windows limping along exceeds to man-power of the entire planet? It probably won't begin until the chair-tosser-in-chief is gone, and then it take years for them to recover. It used to be that Microsoft put as much effort into maintaining their monopoly as they did in their software. Now it seems maintaining their monopoly receives all but the smallest fraction of attention. The rest goes to plugging holes in the about-to-collapse dyke.

        * For certain values of "from scratch"

  • by celardore (844933) <celardore@gmail.com> on Tuesday December 16 2008, @08:59AM (#26131873) Homepage
    ...probably won't. Most uneducated users that read the article will probably be of the mindset "oh, it won't happen to me".
    • by Andr T. (1006215) <andretaff@NOsPaM.gmail.com> on Tuesday December 16 2008, @09:01AM (#26131901)
      I think that most people that read news about IT don't use IE already.
      • by SkankinMonkey (528381) on Tuesday December 16 2008, @09:08AM (#26131967)
        Yea but the ones that they support and frequently think it's a good idea to click on the 'Hit the target to get a free iPod' ad is a good idea.
        • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 16 2008, @09:19AM (#26132089)
          Yea but the ones that they support and frequently think it's a good idea to click on the 'Hit the target to get a free iPod' ad is a good idea.

          I won one of these a few days ago. Just to let you know, they don't actually give you an iPod directly. Instead, they ask for your bank account information and deposit $250 (they say it's for tax purposes). I should be getting my money any day now!
          • by lysergic.acid (845423) on Tuesday December 16 2008, @12:06PM (#26133999) Homepage

            sounds like a stereotypical trojan/adware/malware infection. at least all you're getting are pop-ups. the last one i had to deal with at work also used DNS-hijacking to redirect any webpage request to their spam (porn) site, preventing any web surfing. to make things worse, it wouldn't even allow the user to run certain programs, like notepad, Hijack This!, Internet Explorer (this malware targeted Firefox).

            a fresh install is probably the easiest/quickest way to fix it, but it's not the only solution. with a little sleuthing (Windows Task Manager & Hijack This!) you can usually identify the file & process name(s) of the malware. all the times i've had to deal with that sort of thing, i found the solution in forum discussions on tech support sites (found by googling the file/process name of the trojan). if you're lucky, someone will have made a cleaner program for that particular malware program.

            one of the more frequently encountered malware/adware programs is SmitFraud [wikipedia.org]. that's one i've encountered several times. it cannot be removed by AV programs or spyware/malware removers (though it'll try to get you to purchase and install rogue AV/Anti-Spyware programs). if you do have SmitFraud, then your best shot is SmitFraudFix [urz.free.fr].

      • by joelholdsworth (1095165) on Tuesday December 16 2008, @09:17AM (#26132063)

        I was listening to BBC Radio 1, and they had a news item about it this morning. But I think GP is right - I can't imagine it will make many users switch. However, as more and more people within the technical community become jaded with the consistent poor quality in Microsoft's offerings, MS will inevitably loose mind-share, and hence their strangle hold on the industry will loosen.

        It's this sort of thing that made me switch over to Linux a year ago. I haven't looked back.

    • by denis-The-menace (471988) on Tuesday December 16 2008, @09:12AM (#26132009)

      Corps won't change either, cause their most computer-illiterate users happens to be their CIO and his/her underlings.

      If something huge happens, FF may actually get into corps even without a Mozilla-created, Corp-approved MSI package.

      • by fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) on Tuesday December 16 2008, @09:37AM (#26132317) Journal
        Speaking as an institutional IT underling, a Mozilla created MSI for Firefox would be really, really handy. As would a mechanism for installing extensions and updates in a more manageable way. Here, at any rate, there is no real opposition to FF per se; but deployment has, thus far, mostly foundered. "Well, IE updates can be deployed within the system with WSUS, FF updates will happen per machine and be blocked by the firewall, and there is no way in hell we'll be able to keep all the machines updated manually." Which is largely true.

        Now, this mostly comes down to the fact that Windows doesn't have anything nearly as nice as real package management(WSUS for MS apps and drivers only is the closest they really come), so apps end up rolling their own with varying degrees of success, which sucks. If we were running *nix this wouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately, that isn't really my option. If FF had a decently manageable MSI option, I'd probably install it on all user machines tomorrow; but until then I'll have to stick with using it on a more limited scale(You think I would use IE for anything beyond the broken intranet stuff?)
  • Vulnerability (Score:5, Insightful)

    by conureman (748753) on Tuesday December 16 2008, @09:00AM (#26131885)

    The only way to open iexplore.exe in my home computers is through the "run" tab. This is to prevent unfit users from not using one of the other browsae. I seldom format & install windows now, unlike before I took that measure.

  • by Reality Master 201 (578873) on Tuesday December 16 2008, @09:00AM (#26131887) Journal

    Just start over. The thing's a chunk of crap that doesn't render stuff properly and must be a nightmare to maintain.

    Pick another rendering engine - WebKit or Gecko - and build a browser around it. Maybe provide IE classic for those poor schmucks who are at jobs with crappily coded intranet apps full of client side VBScript, but don't make it the default.

    • by hey! (33014) on Tuesday December 16 2008, @09:28AM (#26132213) Homepage Journal

      They won't, because there are only two things shoring up their critical desktop OS monopoly in the enterprise at this point: Office and IE.

      User and developer dependencies on IE's peculiarities makes not having access to Windows inconvenient. Microsoft's own web software are designed to provide users of alternative browsers with inferior experience.

      Keeping those "poor schmucks" dependent on IE is worth a great deal of money to MS.

  • Is any browser safe? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Toreo asesino (951231) on Tuesday December 16 2008, @09:08AM (#26131963) Journal

    Personally I don't use IE for most things, but I don't use FireFox for reasons of security at all; just because the extensions rock.
    To my mind, all browsers have more or less the same number of security problems; name me a single mainstream browser that's not had a vulnerability this year for example.

    So in other words, we should find ways to seal off browsers from the normal desktop; lock it down in some low-rights, sandboxed safe environment planning that when it is hacked, it at least will be very limited in scope.

    And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why if I had to choose my browser on purely default security scope, I'd go for IE7/Vista or some customised FireFox setup that nailed it to the floor.

    Just a thought.

    • by Raenex (947668) on Tuesday December 16 2008, @09:22AM (#26132129)

      So in other words, we should find ways to seal off browsers from the normal desktop; lock it down in some low-rights, sandboxed safe environment planning that when it is hacked, it at least will be very limited in scope.

      Except the browser is an excellent application to hack, even if sandboxed, because it has network access and is used for nearly everything these days, including online banking. If you want to be safer you'll have to use separate sandboxed browsers for finance vs email vs ... vs random browsing.

    • by Svartalf (2997) on Tuesday December 16 2008, @09:25AM (#26132183) Homepage

      Few browsers enable privilege escalation like IE does on a regular basis.

    • by LtGordon (1421725) on Tuesday December 16 2008, @09:28AM (#26132205)
      Running web content in a sand boxed environment is exactly one of the features Google emphasized with Chrome. Web content is inherently untrustworthy so this is a smart move. It's sort of like wearing a web-condom: used to be that going bare-browser was mostly safe as long as you were careful who you interacted with, but nowadays even the pretty ones can burn you, so your best bet is to just wrap your tool ... with a sandbox. (I'm still working on the analogy)
    • by chrisgeleven (514645) on Tuesday December 16 2008, @09:34AM (#26132279) Homepage

      Firefox to me is more secure in a way because it usually has security patches released within 48 hours or so after a 0-day exploit, sometimes even within 24 hours. Microsoft on the other hand has been known to leave 0-day exploits unpatched for months.

      Also, Microsoft patches have to wait for their nightly automatic install or when a user shuts down their PC. I believe Firefox checks every time it is launched for updates and installs them. The odds are, you are going to get patched quicker using Firefox then IE.

      • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 16 2008, @10:00AM (#26132635)

        Neither is Internet Explorer. There is nothing about IE that has anything to do with the kernel. You confusion lies in the fact that you confuse "operating system" specifically with "kernel" which is not completely correct. Absolutely no part or component of Internet Explorer resides in privileged memory.

        Internet Explorer, however, is a part of the operating system in that a number of the libraries used in Internet Explorer the browser are modular and can be used through other applications, both first party and third party. Various components of the Explorer shell, such as Active Desktop, are accomplished through hosting the HTML renderer of Internet Explorer. Many applications also rely on those libraries are a variety of functions from rendering HTML to performing simple FTP commands. They could use other means to accomplish the same tasks, but the Internet Explorer API makes it exceedingly easy.

        So, no component of Internet Explorer is hosted within the kernel at all. However, Internet Explorer is a part of the operating system in that it is a constituent component of the platform API expected to exist for applications. Removal of those components will break scores of applications.

        Note that this vulnerability also does not impact Internet Explorer 7.0 on Windows Vista running within Protected Mode. Yes, the vulnerability can still be exploited and the arbitrary code executed but that code will be contained within a fairly tight sandbox which lacks the privileges to write data to any location, including the user's own profile, even if the current user is running as Administrator. Google Chrome on Windows Vista is the only other browser to use this functionality. No browser can completely prevent buffer overruns in loaded native plug-ins, but browsers may mitigate the effects by sandboxing themselves. Other browsers should take note and follow suit.

      • by Z34107 (925136) <zealoussniper&netscape,net> on Tuesday December 16 2008, @10:30AM (#26132927)

        IE never was "welded to the kernel."

        IE exports a COM object, which lets developers add HTML rendering to an application with one line of code. So, that's one reason why they don't want you uninstalling it - HTML rendering is something a lot of Windows applications are expecting the OS to export.

        The closest it came to "welded to the kernel" was Active Desktop where the Windows shell used it to render a web page on your desktop. I think it was also used if you had an HTML background for folders, too. Not sure what happened to it in XP or Vista.

        About the only things that count as kernel-welded in Windows land are device drivers and services, of which IE is neither.

  • Wrong summary (Score:5, Informative)

    by OhHellWithIt (756826) * on Tuesday December 16 2008, @09:14AM (#26132029) Journal

    Microsoft has begun flooding media outlets with information advising users to switch to an alternate browser while a serious security flaw is being patched.

    I don't see anywhere in TFA that Microsoft has advised people to use another browser. It's other experts. So this is a "dog bites man" story, not the other way around.

    Now, if you don't mind, I'll go back to my nap.

  • by Viol8 (599362) on Tuesday December 16 2008, @09:14AM (#26132033)

    .. in fact I'm a diehard linux fanman (too old to be a fanboi!)

    But even I'm getting sick of the hysterical anti MS reaction every single time some exploit appears for some or other program. Some people particularly media commentators need to get a sense of perspective and understand that no complex piece of software can really ever be bug free and these sorts of errors will creep in occasionally. Who hear who codes in C or C++ hasn't had a similar bug in their own code from time to time even though you were sure you'd debugged everything and the code passed through testing fine? Probably all of us. So look around you to spot the glass before you start chucking any stones!

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 16 2008, @09:21AM (#26132121)

    RTFA.

    Said Mr Ferguson: "If users can find an alternative browser, then that's good mitigation against the threat."

    But Microsoft counselled against taking such action.

    "I cannot recommend people switch due to this one flaw," said John Curran, head of Microsoft UK's Windows group.

  • Uhhh, no... (Score:5, Informative)

    by IceCreamGuy (904648) on Tuesday December 16 2008, @09:22AM (#26132137) Homepage
    FTS:

    Microsoft has begun flooding media outlets with information advising users to switch to an alternate browser while a serious security flaw is being patched.

    FTA:

    But Microsoft counselled against taking such action.

    "I cannot recommend people switch due to this one flaw," said John Curran, head of Microsoft UK's Windows group.

    Not trying to downplay the clear reasoning behind switching browsers, but the summary is just blatantly incorrect in this case.

  • As much as I'd like to push out firefox for my users, I have many users in a domain environment with mapped applications directory; firefox is simply unmanageable in this environment.

    Of all the improvements they are making in firefox, they are ignoring a potentially very large audience by not including some way to manage the browser in a corporate environment.

There's no easy quick way out, we're gonna have to live through our whole lives, win, lose, or draw. -- Walt Kelly