Opera 9.60 Released, With Upgraded Mail Client 128
Kelson writes "Opera Software has released Opera 9.60, the latest version of their web browser & internet suite. It's an evolutionary release, focused on performance optimization, improving the email client and adding more items to the Opera Link synchronization service."
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I haven't checked the install file sizes lately, but one of the neat things about Opera is that it adds a lot of funtionality while still being very compact. Last time I checked, it had a *much* smaller download (and often memory) footprint than Firefox (especially when FF was v2) even with that extra functionality. It's also nice about not loading parts of the app that you don't need. Id est, if you don't load up a mail tab in Opera, it doesn't allocate resources needed for it. Feeds did get a big lagg
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I tried the M2 client when it first came out in Opera. I stuck with it for about a year, hoping that terms like "revolutionary" and "bold re-imagining of e-mail" would actually take hold within my brain. It didn't.
If someone ever wanted a brief summary of M2, I'd say it's like GMail's retarded little brother.
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Ah, a quick snipe at its lack of popularity.
If popularity is all that matters, then IE must be the best browser. Funny how Firefox fans suddenly aren't so keen to follow this logic when it comes to IE? You can't have it both ways.
I use the browser that I like most. I was using Opera before Firefox even existed, and long before it became trendy not to use IE. The fact that more people use Firefox than Opera is no more relevant to me than the fact that more people use IE.
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they're the only commercial browser maker to survive IE. i realize the guy from netscape created the mozilla foundation when he sold netscape to aol, but even aol has dropped netscape support as a result of firefox's popularity. thus making opera the only closed source IE survivor.
that alone is an accomplishment. and what other browser can run on a nintendo DS?
QT4 vs QT3 (Score:2, Informative)
The official download defaults to QT3 even though same build is offered as QT4 in beta.
There might be graphical bugs but I couldnt find any.
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A QT4 version of the official release is also available, but only for 32 bit x86.
Downloadable here:
ftp://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/linux/960/final/en/i386/ [opera.com]
Gentoo's ebuild will install the QT4 version on 32 bit x86 if you have the qt-static flag on and the qt3-static flag off.
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It's the only non-free sofware I run. (Score:5, Insightful)
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> whats not to love.
Proprietary applications without full source code availability ("of course I trust some American companies browser with my bank's passwords...")
Re:It's the only non-free sofware I run. (Score:5, Informative)
> whats not to love.
Proprietary applications without full source code availability ("of course I trust some American companies browser with my bank's passwords...")
Opera is Norwegian. [opera.com]
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Which, for those who don't know, means: scandinavian mentality = at least as good as typical well know open source project.
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I don't know what this is supposed to mean :)
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Sorry to break your perceptions, but Opera is actually a festering privacy nightmare.
By default it sends each and every one of your URL requests to click-tracker site. If you don't believe me, check with a packet sniffer.
If it had been open source, I dare say that wouldn't have been the default.
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Sorry, but your argument provides no real evidence to contradict my claim of what I witnessed coming out of Opera. Simply insisting that it is so doesn't do it for me.
The link you provide does not counter my own personally collected evidence. It's worth about as much as a typical privacy policy as far as I'm concerned.
Before you point the accusing finger of conspiracy theory, install a recent Opera, learn how to sniff traffic, then get back to me on that.
My claim that it's spyware stands.
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You have done no such thing. Claiming that opera behaves a certain way and actually proving that it behaves that way are two different things. Short of full corporate transparency, there is no way to prove that the URLs sent by the browser will not be stored, despite claims otherwise. The fact is that they are being sent from my browser. Thus, they can be stored and abused without my knowledge,
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When did you last personally audit your browser's source?
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So Open Source is great - but why is it only Opera that draws this criticism? By that reasoning, Apple should be disliked too, for example - but I don't see you posting this comment to every Apple story.
Go on, try it - I bet you'd be modded down.
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It's a lot lighter weight than FF and has everything built in including IRC and BT, spell check uses gnu-aspell, and the email client rocks.
On OS X, it's never really been much of a contender. I checked out this release. It does better for standards compliance, but is still slower than Safari in general. For javascript it is still slower than the stable version of Safari and nowhere near the performance of the Safari betas with the javascript performance improvements. Using gnu-aspell is a minus in my book, at least on OS X, where there is a system-wide spell checking service. Training yet another spell checker for another application that has
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You can't really compare Safari to Opera. Safari is about as bare-bones as a browser can be. I am all for not bundling in unecessary bloat but I find Safari pretty much unusable after having used Opera. Custom searching, mouse gestures and dynamic tabs are the first things that come to mind. Other obvious ones would be session management and being able to choose where to save a download instead of everything going to wherev
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You can't really compare Safari to Opera. Safari is about as bare-bones as a browser can be.
I can and do compare them when trying to pick a browser for everyday use.
I am all for not bundling in unecessary bloat but I find Safari pretty much unusable after having used Opera.
That's a fine opinion, but your supporting facts are a bit questionable.
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whats not to love.
Lack of adblock plus. (the inbuilt isn't as good as AB+)
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Some of us actually like to support the websites we visit by viewing their ads.
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With an installer that is just 5.4mb that is some pretty skinny bloat.
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Opera is bloatware?
Opera 9.6 size: 5.4MB
Firefox 3 size: 7MB. And that's not including all the extensions needed to duplicate Opera's built-in functionality.
I love Opera (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I love Opera (Score:4, Funny)
Forgot to click that "Post Anonymously" checkbox again, eh?
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What makes you say that eh?
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Re:I love Opera Maybe because he's totally.. (Score:1)
OP ERRATIC?
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Don't call him 'friend', guy!
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Don't call him "guy," buddy!
Too many browsers (Score:2, Funny)
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You forgot one.
Internet Explorer + Firefox + Opera + Safari + Chrome = Internet Firopesafrome.
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AFAIK WebKit is an Apple fork of KHTML, so you should list the original instead.
In that mindset you should say "Netscape" instead of "Firefox" too. ;)
Opera has a mail client? (Score:3, Insightful)
Opera has a mail client? Who knew?
Seriously - until a few weeks ago I never noticed it had a mail client. I just use Opera to verify sites. I never checked to see what other features the browser had. I'd run it long enough to see that menus, etc. rendered correctly and then shut it down and go right back to Firefox.
I mean, really. With all the great open source mail clients out there, why would I need a mail client from Opera?
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You are a brainwashed idiot.
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Opera is Great (but not perfect) (Score:2)
I've been using opera since v2. And yes that makes me one of those people who actually paid for a browser. Over the years it's grown in size and complexity but still manages a great and fast browser.
But I have to admit I'm finding Chrome very alluring.
atm, preferred choice (Score:2)
I like Opera (Score:5, Informative)
A sexy default look. I think Opera generally looks much sleeker, and the smooth-scrolling is worlds better (parabolic instead of linear, I think). It's a tiny aesthetic change that makes a big difference in ease of use (I don't lose my place) and feel of the app.
Speed dial. You've got your top nine right there in front of you.
The Wand. It's a huge time-saver if you have multiple logins for a site. Just click the username you need to use, and Opera submits the form with the creds you picked. It's faster and less clunky than the dropdown that Firefox uses.
The Trash bin. It lets you pick any recently closed page; you don't have to Ctrl-Shift-T through all the tabs you just closed to find the right one.
Quick search. Firefox has inline search too, but Opera simultaneously highlights *all* occurrences of the search text as you type.
And finally...
Dragonfly, the Opera javascript debugger. This baby is impressive. It's much easier to use than Venkman and rivals Firebug. The script window lets you pick any loaded script (inline scripts have their own entry!). The DOM tab (which is less spastic than Firebug's) lets you inspect all of your elements in folding-tree style. The Styles pane with then show you the explicit and computed styles on the element. Fantastic.
So give Opera a try. You might find a thing or three that you like.
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So, Opera went back to the pre-9.5 look? I switched from Opera as my main browser to Firefox shortly after Firefox 3 came out. I was NOT happy after upgrading to Opera 9.5 and finding out that it went from OK looking defaults (I had it set to the
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I use Opera.
The only problem that I have with it, is that the goddamn space-bar scroll is 100% of a window height. Not something sane like 95% so you can see the last line of text you were reading.
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In case you weren't baiting for a flame war.. GP never said that Firefox doesn't have these things, he said that they are implemented better in Opera. Also, Opera is where mouse gestures started, and even though I use a FF plugin to have them at work, I still think that Opera implemented them better as well.
You make valid points and I agree that Opera's implementation of mouse gestures on Windows is better than FF, but I still think it is wrong. Mouse gestures, spell checking, grammar checking, and similar functions should be implemented at the OS level and usable by applications the way they are in OS X. I mean why would you want to have to re-enter and retrain your mouse gestures for each application individually and just go without them in the majority of applications where the developer did not bother to i
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You would have to do this anyway as you need to interact with different programs in different ways. So you end up with weird cross overs. A down mouse gesture might open a new tab in a browser but in iTunes it might start a new playlist. It would be impossible to make the gestures intuitive over all programs so you would still have to learn them for each one.
Also most programs don't demand the type of int
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You would have to do this anyway as you need to interact with different programs in different ways. So you end up with weird cross overs.
This isn't theoretical. I actually use gestures across applications now. There are a lot of common features/functions across applications. Being able to easily specify the same gesture and not have to retrain is a huge time saver. For example, a gesture to save a file that works across a range of image editing and layout programs where I'm not using the keyboard much is a huge help. Also, just not having to learn the interface for setting and training gestures for each individual application is a huge time
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I have had a look in OSX (10.4.11) and online and can't find a way to setup mouse gestures without using a third-party program? From your comments I presumed it was an OS feature, are you using a third party app or is it just hidden away somewhere?
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I have had a look in OSX (10.4.11) and online and can't find a way to setup mouse gestures without using a third-party program? From your comments I presumed it was an OS feature, are you using a third party app or is it just hidden away somewhere?
I'm using a service (I believe it is called 'cocoa gesture') and it is a third party offering. System services are a function of OS X that allow programs and stand alone services to offer functionality across all applications, instead of just one application (like Opera does). This applies to all programs that use the native APIs for things like text handling, but excludes programs like Opera who just do a quick and dirty port and don't bother with standard APIs. In this way I've been gestures across many a
Mail client kicks rear (Score:3, Informative)
Seriously, Opera's mail client is amazing (No, I don't work for them). I've tried the other biggies (MS and TBird) and I really like the way Opera manages the content. It's almost like they took a step back and examined all the things that email should do as a properly databased system and made it do those things. Finding an email that's a few years old is extremely fast and easy, the filter system/contacts is amazing, it really understands the concept of an instance of the email -- the same email can appear in multiple places but doesn't have to be copied. It's just smooth. Only two minor gripes: 1-it's quite technical and I've had a bit of a hard time showing non-techs how to get the most of it, and 2-no HTML composition, but who cares? I'm in the design business and I rarely need it -- it's one of those features desired by people who really think that putting their content in bright green will make it more interesting/important (sorry, got off on a rant there)
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Acid3 compliant? Nope. (Score:3, Informative)
Long-time opera user here, and I feel it's falling behind rapidly. No ACID3, relatively slow javascript, other browsers catching up.
When chrome gets fixed, safari gets inline search off the / key, FF stops being slow and/or any of them get the nifty right/left click gesture to go back I'll be switching.
Although just typing /. in the address bar to go to slashdot may be the opera clincher :-)
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[quote]Long-time opera user here, and I feel it's falling behind rapidly. No ACID3, relatively slow javascript, other browsers catching up.[/quote]
You're kidding, right? Opera was the first browser to get 100/100 in ACID3 (unsurprisingly, BTW, since the ACID test is co-developed by some guys from Opera Software), one day before WebKit [slashdot.org], and consistently wins JS benchmarks (only being narrowly beaten in some of them by FF3 - FF2 got hammered).
And what sense does it make to say that it's "falling behind" while
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You're kidding, right? Opera was the first browser to get 100/100 in ACID3 (unsurprisingly, BTW, since the ACID test is co-developed by some guys from Opera Software), one day before WebKit [slashdot.org]...
Actually, according to the writers of the test, no engine passed completely until September 25th, when Webkit managed to render the animation portion smoothly (it is still choppy in the latest dev versions of Opera).
...and consistently wins JS benchmarks (only being narrowly beaten in some of them by FF3 - FF2 got hammered).
When the new version of Opera shipped (9.6) I ran it through the Sunspider javascript speed test. It scored about 6900 versus 6100 for the production version of Safari (3.1.2), so at least on OS X, Opera is significantly behind and that's even without the fancy new javascript engine in the dev
Why pick one of the smallest platforms? (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, according to the writers of the test, no engine passed completely until September 25th, when Webkit managed to render the animation portion smoothly
Opera's rendering engine (Presto/WinGogi) and WebKit (used in Chrome / Safari) both reached 100/100 on the 26th and 27th of March, respectively.
Introducing "smoothness" requirements means a browser may pass or fail the test depending on what hardware it's running on (and the opinion of the person watching the test - smooth for you might not be smooth for me). IMO the point of the Acid test is to check standards-compliance, not performance. If a browser gets 100/100, it passed.
And while both layout engines got the perfect score months ago, the current release version of Safari scores only 75/100, and Opera 9.60 scores only 85/100 (highest of any current non-beta browser, but still not 100).
BTW, the Acid3 test has changed several times after bugs in the test itself were discovered, the latest one on September 29th, so maybe no engine will actually get 100/100 when it's fixed.
it used to be that Opera had pretty much cloned all the neato features of other browsers
In fact, they were so good at "cloning the neato features of other browsers" that they often cloned those features months (sometimes years) before the other browsers had them (in some cases, before those browsers even existed). :-)
Personally, I like Opera on Windows quite a bit and it may be my favorite browser on that platform... but I don't browse in Windows [...] you realize they coded it for Windows
If you're going to pick one platform to optimise (or if you're going to pick one platform to benchmark), it makes sense to pick the platform with 90% market share (Windows) over one that barely reaches 5% (OS X), no? Or test all platforms and then weigh the final scores based on each platform's share.
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Opera's rendering engine (Presto/WinGogi) and WebKit (used in Chrome / Safari) both reached 100/100 on the 26th and 27th of March, respectively.
True, but that wasn't the original requirement, even if it is the most we home users can conveniently test.
Introducing "smoothness" requirements means a browser may pass or fail the test depending on what hardware it's running on (and the opinion of the person watching the test - smooth for you might not be smooth for me). IMO the point of the Acid test is to check standards-compliance, not performance. If a browser gets 100/100, it passed.
They supplied specified reference hardware and rates, so there is no ambiguity. You can define the test as it is acceptable to you, or course, I'm just pointing out why some people can reasonably disagree. Both engines are pretty good for compliance in any case.
In fact, they were so good at "cloning the neato features of other browsers" that they often cloned those features months (sometimes years) before the other browsers had them (in some cases, before those browsers even existed). :-)
You misunderstand. Opera has introduced many new features, and other browsers have been slow to copy them, but Opera has always been quick to c
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Opera has introduced many new features, and other browsers have been slow to copy them, but Opera has always been quick to clone any useful features from other browsers.
Such as...? The only major feature that I remember Opera introducing after other browsers was automated password management, and they took ages to add that.
I'm going to pick the most featureful and preferred platform for my own use. [...] a quick test on the platform I prefer shows that Opera is not particularly fast
When the platform you choose is the platform of choice for 5% of people (in the US - probably more like 3% worldwide), I really don't think your results can be taken to represent browser performance in general (as experienced by the majority of people).
And are you really surprised that WebKit's internal benchmark (Sunspider) runs faster on WebKit-based b
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Such as...?
Grammar checking, resizable text boxes, automatic language translation, fast and efficient javascript engine, just for starters.
When the platform you choose is the platform of choice for 5% of people...
That's not really pertinent since it is also slower on Linux and Windows, or was last time I tested it. The references I made to OS X were mostly with regard to problems with failing to properly code for that platform and take advantage of the ways it is superior to Windows.
And are you really surprised that WebKit's internal benchmark (Sunspider) runs faster on WebKit-based browsers...?
Gecko based browsers still run it twice as fast as Opera. Are they just biased against Opera in some unspeci
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Grammar checking, resizable text boxes, automatic language translation, fast and efficient javascript engine, just for starters. [...] The references I made to OS X were mostly with regard to problems with failing to properly code for that platform and take advantage of the ways it is superior to Windows.
Opera doesn't have any built-in spelling or grammar checking, so that hardly counts as a "feature copied from other browsers" (unless you mean they copied the absence of a built-in checker?). Under Windows / Linux, Opera uses GNU Aspell and, under OS X, it will use the operating system's checker. I guess that contradicts your theory that "Opera is not coded to take advantage of the features offered by OS X".
Resizable text boxes are not defined by the current HTML / CSS standards. If and when resizability be
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I have tried opera 9.6 on windows and osx. Both get 85/100 on acid3. They got 100/100 when there was a bug in the acid3 test which the webkit guys found, and only in an internal version, None of the released betas have ever got 100/100 AFAIK.
It falls behind on svg performance (I like to make big auto-generated sequece diagrams etc), javascript performance, rendering speed, debugging tools (network graphs showing page load times, for example) and features (auto-completing google search)
I have no idea how you
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Long-time opera user here, and I feel it's falling behind rapidly. No ACID3, relatively slow javascript, other browsers catching up.
It's an incremental release over 9.5. All the ACID3 stuff went on in the internal development builds (though you can download that one with the first ACID3 100/100 pass), which will most likely be Opera 10 -- and that's what should be compared to still-in-the-future releases like Firefox 3.1, Chrome 1.0, etc.
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Why I use Opera: (Score:5, Informative)
Blazing-fast fullpage zoom: using the + and - keys makes Opera a delight to use for those of us browsing at high resolutions with websites designed for low resolutions. With 30" monitors like mine, it's an absolute must.
note:Firefox 3.1 has a horribly slow full page zoom on my dual core 2.2 Ghz AMD.
Instant page backtracking:. No re-rendering delay. (oh how I wish I could use Opera on my iPhone just because of that). The bonus is that any text typed by the user is also saved. A lifesaver for those of us who post on forums and hate to see their comments "eaten" by server and network errors.
Snappiest interface of the bunch: It shows quickdial tabs faster than the firefox plugin. Closing tabs and opening new ones is faster. Scrolling is faster. The reduced input latency makes interacting with the browser more enjoyable. Chrome is second best in this regard.
All of this makes up for the slightly higher incompatibility issues Opera deals with and the lack of addons (segmented downloading? Adblock? etc.). I can always fire up Chrome or Firefox if I need to.
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I don't think incompatability is really an issue anymore for basic webbrowsing. My personal experience is that 99% of the webpages that I regularly visit render perfectly in Opera. I love this browser.
Finally Sped Up (Score:2)
So I tried Opera a while back and the pages were noticeably slower to load then in Firefox. Having just tried it now, I can safely say that its finally a bit faster. I'll be happily switching and taking advantage of all of Opera's features that Firefox has yet to implement.
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Apparently you also couldn't wait to waste everybody's time with a totally pointless post on Slashdot. Good job!
Dick.
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You must be new here.
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Well said! I'm a big Opera fan (although I don't use the mail client) and I really don't understand the 'down' some people have on this most excellent browser. Perhaps he's a Microsoft whore.
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That might be because switching from IE to Opera is relatively easy. IE is a very basic browser so when you switch to Opera you get all sorts of new features to play with.
When you're a Firefox user the first thing you miss is all the Firefox extensions. Firebug? AdBlock Plus subscriptions? Some Firefox extensions are replaced by Opera features, but many aren't. It's difficult trying to live without features you're used to. It's like having dual monitors for a few years and then going back to a single monito
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On the other hand, an Opera user trying to use Firefox feels lost, the same way :)
I'm still using 9.27. Tried 9.5 and it had so many quirks that I reverted back. Not quite sure if I should even try 9.6...
9.5 was poison. Is 9.6 better? (Score:1)
Opera 9.5 broke the "noko" feature in 4chan which forced me to revert to 9.27.
Is noko fixed in Opera 9.6? Does anyone know?
firefox to opera switching (Score:1)
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Opera features that Firefox lacks can be added via extensions [mozilla.org].
Firefox features that Opera lacks can be pined for wistfully.
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Got any examples of addons that replicate Firefox features?
I can't actually think of any such features, but apparently they exist.
widgets do not extend Opera functionality (Score:2)
Widgets don't actually modify the functionality of Opera. I would like to have a verticle tree-view mode for the tabs in Opera. I get this on Firefox via the "Tree Style Tab" extension, and it's amazing. It's the only reason I'm typing this on Firefox at the moment. In many, many ways, I still prefer Opera. Bit this particular feature is a dealmaker. Widgets can't provide this kind of functionality.
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Well, since the most-commonly mentioned extension seems to be Adblock Plus, how about a link to an Opera widget that replicates Adblock Plus's functionality? The ad-blocking feature included in Opera does not count, since, as has been mentioned many times already, it is inferior to Adblock Plus.
Or, if the afore-mentioned widget doesn't exist, you could just post an apology and an admission that I'm right. Either way is fine. ;)
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Nope, FireFox freaks have more of a tendency to put down Opera, then IE fans (MS fans) do... by far.
I believe that has something to do with the fact that IE's bestest fans don't know of any other browsers.
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You're right! My Wife is a fire-foxy and she hates Opera too. Women!
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On a side note, has anyone used Opera mobile much, and how has it been?
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"Yea, small wonder that you hate Opera, you 'FF fiend', you - Especially considering FireFox took features from Opera, such as:
1.) Primarily: The tabbed browsing style of user interface in a webbrowser from Opera (who had it prior to FF &/or IE) & built it into FF as a 'native feature'
2.) Also/Secondly (& far more recently), also how the .xpi addons makers for FireFox took the Opera 'speed-dial' feature & mimicked it for FireFox, via such an addon"...
----
Yes - That simple set of truths ALWAYS 'gets the firefox fiends' goats', everytime, & simply because it IS, the truth.
And the truth is??
"Imitation IS the sincerest form of flattery!" ... & there is NO question that FireFox's dev team AND their addon makers rip features from Opera...
The whole Opera had XX features first doesn't fly in my book, certainly not when argued in any environment that has a tendency to support FOSS. I must be reading the wrong articles' comments lately, since the I am not hearing the FOSS voice much standing up for these things.
Even considering that, quality does matter. I used Opera when Mozilla still a monster, and loved tabs and mouse gestures. When Firefox came, and then had those options available, I was pleased to have them in a top notch browser that was
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"The whole Opera had XX features first doesn't fly in my book, certainly not when argued in any environment that has a tendency to support FOSS" - by centuren (106470) on Thursday October 09, @12:08AM (#25309185) Homepage
/.'s community has an immediate BIAS against anyone that doesn't do "FOSS", and that it is ok to steal the ideas (and probably code as well) of others from what you're stating, apparently.
"The whole Opera had XX features first doesn't fly in my book, certainly not when argued in any environment that has a tendency to support FOSS" - by centuren (106470) on Thursday October 09, @12:08AM (#25309185) Homepage
/.'s community has an immediate BIAS against anyone that doesn't do "FOSS", and that it is ok to steal the ideas (and probably code as well) of others from what you're stating, apparently.
"The whole Opera had XX features first doesn't fly in my book, certainly not when argued in any environment that has a tendency to support FOSS" - by centuren (106470) on Thursday October 09, @12:08AM (#25309185) Homepage
/.'s community has an immediate BIAS against anyone that doesn't do "FOSS", and that it is ok to steal the ideas (and probably code as well) of others from what you're stating, apparently.
That's apparent if you take the opening sentence and assume that nothing following it is further explanation, yes.
If your attention span survives the paragraph, the lack of comprehension in your response is what's apparent.
One important idea behind FOSS is innovating on what's out there for the benefit of all. There's no secret that there is a high number of FOSS supports in the /. community.
Complaining the Opera had XX features first doesn't fly, because Firefox has done them much better (imho).
I finish by
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I don't know why Firefox people put down Opera. If Opera were to go away, where would Firefox developers get their ideas from? Firefox would stagnate.
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Why, they could copy the fresh and innovative features found in Microsoft's excellent browser.
Have you seen IE7 yet? They let you view multiple pages inside one window, via "tabs". Genius!
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Richard, is that you?
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They don't have ads anymore (Score:5, Informative)
Re:woohoo! (Score:5, Funny)
I might consider using it when they remove the ads.
2005 called. It wants your comment back.
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As a KDE user, I prefer Opera over Firefox, simply use to better resource useage, that being said, has Opera 9.6 started using Qt4 yet?
Yes. The main download page, as far as I can tell, only offers the QT3 version, but you can download QT4 builds from the FTP server [opera.com].